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From the FAQ
What kind of action is it for an alchemist to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb?
It is a standard action to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb. This action includes retrieving the necessary materials from the alchemist's supplies, in the same manner as retrieving a material component is included in the act of spellcasting.
Not exactly how I read the rules but it's good enough for me. Also, retrieving and using a mutagen it a standard as well.
That's how my group's been playing it and I'm glad we were right. But to hear an official answer makes it all the better.
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From the FAQ
Not exactly how I read the rules but it's good enough for me. Also, retrieving and using a mutagen it a standard as well.What kind of action is it for an alchemist to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb?
It is a standard action to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb. This action includes retrieving the necessary materials from the alchemist's supplies, in the same manner as retrieving a material component is included in the act of spellcasting.
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
this makes me happy
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heh well how bout that I was right go figure.
although is does mean GM's need to look closely at the fast drinker trait since it makes it a move action to use and free to retrieve.
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From the FAQ
Not exactly how I read the rules but it's good enough for me. Also, retrieving and using a mutagen it a standard as well.What kind of action is it for an alchemist to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb?
It is a standard action to use an extract, mutagen, or throw a bomb. This action includes retrieving the necessary materials from the alchemist's supplies, in the same manner as retrieving a material component is included in the act of spellcasting.
Hm; I figured extracts and mutagens worked like potions, but I guess not. If that's the case, then I doubt the trait Accelerated Drinker or the Drunken Brute barbarian would help speed up using extracts and mutagens.
The reasoning is "most class abilities are standard actions." Making the alchemist take longer is weird and really makes the class less effective in combat.
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The reasoning is "most class abilities are standard actions." Making the alchemist take longer is weird and really makes the class less effective in combat.
I'd been thinking the same thing. This also nails down why extracts aren't just enhanced potions or some other potion variant. If they can be used faster because they're more concentrated, smaller, easier to retrieve, it really reinforces why they're named differently and have their own rules.
As with Bombs and Mutagen, drinking an extract also provokes an AoO, yes?
The reasoning is "most class abilities are standard actions." Making the alchemist take longer is weird and really makes the class less effective in combat.I'd been thinking the same thing. This also nails down why extracts aren't just enhanced potions or some other potion variant. If they can be used faster because they're more concentrated, smaller, easier to retrieve, it really reinforces why they're named differently and have their own rules.
As with Bombs and Mutagen, drinking an extract also provokes an AoO, yes?
yes but unlike an AoO from casting a spell you can't lose what you just drank and don't need to make a concentration check
The reasoning is "most class abilities are standard actions." Making the alchemist take longer is weird and really makes the class less effective in combat.Reasoning is fine, wording in the book seems to suggest otherwise, at least to me.
Regardless, thanks for clearing it up.
Exactly. This seems more like an erratum than a FAQ answer, but it's quite reasonable.
As with Bombs and Mutagen, drinking an extract also provokes an AoO, yes?
Yep, drinking just about anything provokes an AOO. That's what happens when the PFRPG designer is a teetotaler.
Yeah, seems like this is something they decided to change after the outcry.
Nah, just a clarification. We've always been doing it as a standard in-house, it's just that the alch is unique in its abilities so players aren't 100% sure what the precedent is.
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Sorry if this has been discussed before, but I couldn't find it.
What happens when you through Accelerated Drinker trait (Cheliax: Empire of Devils, page 18) into the mix?
Keep in mind the text of the Alchemy class ability on pages 26 & 27 of the APG:
Alchemists ... fashion ... magical potionlike extracts...
and
Extracts ... behave like spells in potion form... Unlike potions, though, extracts can have powerful effects and duplicate spells that a potion normally could not.
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As with Bombs and Mutagen, drinking an extract also provokes an AoO, yes?Yep, drinking just about anything provokes an AOO. That's what happens when the PFRPG designer is a teetotaler.
Yeah, seems like this is something they decided to change after the outcry.Nah, just a clarification. We've always been doing it as a standard in-house, it's just that the alch is unique in its abilities so players aren't 100% sure what the precedent is.
I know how to treat a potion and I know how to treat spellcasting, here is this new thing that's a bit like both. When do you treat this like a potion and when like spellcasting?
For example:
As long as I was treating it like a potion I knew what to do. Now? Not as much. Right now I'm leaning towards just treating it like casting and treating all the text about 'just like a potion' as flavor text.
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As with Bombs and Mutagen, drinking an extract also provokes an AoO, yes?Yep, drinking just about anything provokes an AOO. That's what happens when the PFRPG designer is a teetotaler.
Yeah, seems like this is something they decided to change after the outcry.Nah, just a clarification. We've always been doing it as a standard in-house, it's just that the alch is unique in its abilities so players aren't 100% sure what the precedent is.I know how to treat a potion and I know how to treat spellcasting, here is this new thing that's a bit like both. When do you treat this like a potion and when like spellcasting?
For example:
Can you imbibe defensively to avoid attacks of opportunities like you can cast defensively? Potion No, Casting Yes
Imbibe while raging? Potion Yes, Casting No As long as I was treating it like a potion I knew what to do. Now? Not as much. Right now I'm leaning towards just treating it like casting and treating all the text about 'just like a potion' as flavor text.
I was going to treat it like a supernatural ability that provokes attacks of opportunities. You can't do it defensively, but the attack won't prevent it from happening(although it could be disarmed, though that's probably dirty pool...like disarming a wizard's spell component).
I was going to treat it like a supernatural ability that provokes attacks of opportunities. You can't do it defensively, but the attack won't prevent it from happening(although it could be disarmed, though that's probably dirty pool...like disarming a wizard's spell component).
But that's even weirder, because Su abilities shouldn't provoke AOOs.
So, if using an Extract is a Standard Action, my Alchemist can make an Infused Extract, give it to the Fighter, and then the Fighter can retrieve and activate the Extract as a Standard Action?
That's an interesting question.
A more interesting question is, "why are you sharing your drugs with that fighter? You know he's just using you, just like he used you in high school to get his term papers done."
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I was going to treat it like a supernatural ability that provokes attacks of opportunities. You can't do it defensively, but the attack won't prevent it from happening(although it could be disarmed, though that's probably dirty pool...like disarming a wizard's spell component).But that's even weirder, because Su abilities shouldn't provoke AOOs.
Unless they say they do, like a supernatural ranged attack or mutagen. I'm sure if there was a new fourth category, it would be easier, but the alternative to supernatural alchemist provoking is making them fully spells with concentration checks to drink defensively, and then they may as well just cast spells if it's just spell casting with a flask as the material component.
I was going to treat it like a supernatural ability that provokes attacks of opportunities. You can't do it defensively, but the attack won't prevent it from happening(although it could be disarmed, though that's probably dirty pool...like disarming a wizard's spell component).But that's even weirder, because Su abilities shouldn't provoke AOOs.
I don't think this is problematic at all.
The alchemist's 'Alchemy(Su)' class feature IS a 'supernatural' ability. However, because it represents an action that includes drinking it also provokes AoOs. This is an exception to how 'supernatural' abilities work, but it is clearly mentioned in the description of the ability. For everything else it is treated as a 'supernatural' ability.
For an explanation why retrieving the extracts is a free action, I would say the components for extracts are much smaller than for potions, because extracts are much more concentrated. In fact this is like wizards and 'material spell components'. Retrieving them is also a free action.