Considering GMing, need advice


Advice


Well, I'm just about 2 months into PFS play (6 sessions) and am starting to get not-so-gentle pressure to help with GMing. This is my first experience with Pathfinder. I've never GM'd and only RP'd for about 4 months (including the current stint) in my life, even though I've tinkered with D&D stuff consistently for about 25 years.

Suffice it to say I get the general scope of the rules, but I DO NOT know them in detail. Skills for example: I know what all of them are, but not really how and when people should be using them (making skill checks); never mind figuring out DCs and other details. There's tons of examples like this bubbling up in my mind...

My point of writing is to seek some advice about how to keep from going mad trying to prepare and still have fun with this. First, I simply don't have time in my life outside of my normal gaming nights to cram in the rules I don't know (skills, magic, etc). Second, I don't have the table experience to feel remotely like GM'ing will be fun for ME. I might be able to make the session fun for others (although, I doubt that, too), but this is a game that I play for me. If I'm not having fun, I know I'll just stop playing, which just sucks. However, I think I need to find a way to contribute. It just needs to be fun for me rather than stressful.

Anyone have advice for an aspiring PFS GM?

Thanks! Eelario

Sovereign Court

No gaming is better than bad gaming.


Don't try to become a master of the rules, learn them as the game goes and don't be afraid to ask your players for help. Do not force the players through a plot line regardless of how much effort you put into it. A GM screen contains reminders of the rules. Use them for easy reference. If you have your own core rule book, use sticky notes to mark important pages for easy reference. Start off slow with prepublished adventures if possible. Throw in encounters or "mini adventures" from time to time to get a fell for writing them.
And good luck.


First show no fear...they can smell it...
Just kidding. I actually GM'd before I played a single game as a player in 3rd edition.

The simplist thing to remember is to GM to your strengths.

If you are short on rules knowledge, go deeper on storyline.
If you have a good idea for one you can always ask for a little help setting it up.

Considering your experience, the easiest way is to simply buy one of the dozens of solid modules Paizo offers. I have read a few and they are quite good. (I mostly write my own, but I have been at it for 10 years) They also require little prep other than reading ahead and being prepared for the players to throwing little kinks in the plan.

I also fudge some things as doing the math often slows things down.
For example, in a lot of my games I dont bother with making people make diplomacy or bluff checks, which would require me making up a sound DC: I have the player tell me what their character says. If it sounds good and they have ranks in those skills, I assume they succeed. Other skills can be treated the same way. This also makes the player immerse themselves more into the character.

For saves, stick to monsters from the besiary or the modules as their attacks often have the save listed already, so you dont have to create a save DC.

What is the Character make up of the group?
The less spellcasters, the easier the rules are.


It will depend a lot on the players, I suspect. In my group it's no big deal if the DM stops to look up a rule or (more commonly) asks one of us how it works. All in all, I wouldnt stress too much on being a master of everything, I'd rather be sure to know whichever adventure you are running very well - what the situation is, some options as to how the players are likely to respond and how the NPCs would respond to those potential player actions.

When I run a session, I always re-read any encounters which I'm expecting to occur - usually pre-preparing a cheat-sheet (one page per encounter) with hit points, monster abilities and page references to rules which I suspect will come up. I also read through those rules to be sure I'm at least partially familiar with them, in my experience the first time you read an RPG rule subsystem it can take a while to get your head around. I prefer not to do that brow-furrowing while I have a player asking me what happens when he's just fallen into the lake in his plate mail. If you think players are going to go swimming, read up on swimming DCs, drowing, time you can hold your breath, etcetera the night before.

I don't have any experience with playing in an organised environment, so I may be being overly paranoid. Nonetheless, I'd suggest running a group of people you know at least through one or two mini-scenarios before jumping into a 'anyone can turn up' setting, at least to get a taste of how it runs before having to deal with adjudicating for a bunch of people you've never met before.

Overall, I strongly recommend GMing at least for a little while. It gives you a firmer grasp of the rules and makes you a better player, in my experience, having seen what it's like on the other side of the screen.


Mok wrote:
No gaming is better than bad gaming.

I completely disagree.

At least with bad gaming, you can learn from your mistakes and improve, and get better, until you don't have bad gaming anymore. Besides, you can still have lots of fun along the way unless players have to be cranky/whiny about the DM learning the rules - that can ruin it for everyone. Assuming the players are mature enough to learn with the DM and are willing to give advice and encourage the game and the fun, then bad gaming is far better than no gaming.

With no gaming, all you get is nothing.


The journey of a thousand game sessions begin with a single Die roll.
Ohhmmm...

Sovereign Court

DM_Blake wrote:
Mok wrote:
No gaming is better than bad gaming.

I completely disagree.

At least with bad gaming, you can learn from your mistakes and improve, and get better, until you don't have bad gaming anymore. Besides, you can still have lots of fun along the way unless players have to be cranky/whiny about the DM learning the rules - that can ruin it for everyone. Assuming the players are mature enough to learn with the DM and are willing to give advice and encourage the game and the fun, then bad gaming is far better than no gaming.

With no gaming, all you get is nothing.

Well, my impression of the OP's situation is really comes from:

Eelario wrote:
My point of writing is to seek some advice about how to keep from going mad trying to prepare and still have fun with this. First, I simply don't have time in my life outside of my normal gaming nights to cram in the rules I don't know (skills, magic, etc). Second, I don't have the table experience to feel remotely like GM'ing will be fun for ME. I might be able to make the session fun for others (although, I doubt that, too), but this is a game that I play for me. If I'm not having fun, I know I'll just stop playing, which just sucks. However, I think I need to find a way to contribute. It just needs to be fun for me rather than stressful.

To me, that sounds like right now isn't the time to try and slog through becoming a GM. No time to devote to it, doesn't have a robust understanding of the rules, and he doesn't think he'll actually enjoy it, at best just servicing the players.

So all I'm saying is that this might not be the time if he sees before him a frantic and stressful time. If others are trying to pressure him into GMing right now and he's not really up to it, then he ought to just say no for the time being.

Now if I'm over reading what the OP is saying, then what I'd suggest is that you do have to put some time into preparation. If you can find the time, particularly with the skills, is that I'd just crack open the book next to the computer and create a cheat sheet summary of all the skills. It's just an old homework trick. By forcing yourself to have to summarize and organize information from one place to another, it allows your mind to digest the information much more thoroughly than simply reading the skills chapter. After wards you have a customized reference that you can use in the game to quickly remind yourself of the rules.

This does take time, but if you hold off on GMing until you feel more secure in what you're doing then you may end up finding that you like it, rather than be stressed out about it.

Sovereign Court Owner - Enchanted Grounds, President/Owner - Enchanted Grounds

I'm surprised your organizer is pushing that hard for you to be a GM. If you've only been playing for a total of four months, and you're not comfortable with the idea of GMing (even obviously stressed about it), then he should really be aware of this and leave you alone.

How big is your group? If it's reasonably sized, is there any kind of "GM Training" sessions going on? We have them at our store, and they've been very popular. The side effect, of course, is that we have more GMs than we ever need, which is a nice problem to have.

If that isn't available, and you really do have to dive into this, remember that your players will know the rules that pertain to them. Just let them handle their stuff. Trust me, they'll ask, "Can I make a skill check for this?" and when they do, decide if it's reasonable, and give them a yes/no answer. If you want them to make the check, give them a low target number, if not give them a high one. Otherwise, just run the bad guys, take your swings, and remember that you're *supposed* to lose. At the end, tell them, "I'm brand new at this, and I know I'm not the best. That said, what can I do to improve?" They'll tell you.

Also, as it's PFS, if you read the module thoroughly, you pretty much have everything you need right in front of you. The stat blocks are usually provided (or in the Bestiary), and the DCs for skill checks are written in (or on the GM screen). Each encounter will have a "how to run me" section, including bad guy tactics, and each module is laid out with a summary at the beginning. They're pretty easy to run for first time GMs - they're meant to be.

Let us know what you do.

The Exchange

Modules are a good tool, as others have said, because you just need to familiarize yourself with them which usually takes much less time than writing an adventure yourself. The pathfinder GM screen is a good tool as well, because it's a pre-made cheat sheet with most of the stuff that you're going to need.

The Pathfinder Game Mastery Guide is an amazing resource as it can help you build adventures, teach you tricks to prepare faster (well, more efficiently really), and it has all sorts of loot tables and such that can help you in improvising a bit. The best thing about the book, I think, is the extensive NPC gallery in the back that has tons of stat blocks for common NPCs that the party might encounter, as well as which NPCs would work well together as a group and what the CR of those groups would be. I highly recommend it, it's one of the best books of it's kind in my opinion.

Wayfinders

Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
Eelario wrote:


Anyone have advice for an aspiring PFS GM?

Rules knowledge isn't what makes a good GM, although it does contribute to a smooth gaming session.

As Drogon says, the PFS modules are very pre-packaged and written to be run on the fly. With a little bit of prep work on your part, they should be an easy introduction to GMing.

If you find the idea of running a game to be too intimidating or, worse yet, no fun, don't be pressured into doing it. Not everyone who enjoys playing enjoys running a game and you should not sacrifice your fun just to give your buddies a chance to play more games.

If, however, you want to give it a try, I suggest getting a low-level PFS module, read it over a few times and look up rules you're not sure ahead of time. Its ok to have notes and cheat sheets at the table and most of us have to look things up at least once and a while (although much of what you will need is in the modules). Have your friends make up fresh first level characters (fewer abilities and less gear to deal with) and have at it.

If you don't enjoy it, at least you gave it a try. Shelve the idea of running a game until later. If it is fun after all, you will get better with every session you run.

Oh, and welcome to Pathfinder. :)


Welcome to the game!

Some good advice above — some of which I would ignore — but here's my contribution:

A good GM comes to view the entire game as his character, including the PCs and the enjoyment of the players. Planning is great and good to do, but be prepared to make decisions, just as you are prepared for anything when you play a character.

If you can cultivate this attitude, it spares you from envying your players (who get to play characters and you don't). It keeps you from running Mary-Sue NPCs. It keeps you focused on the events of the entire campaign, and makes you really care about the player's enjoyment and experience.

One day, my players will look back with fondness on the characters they got to play in a 2+ year campaign. I'll be able to look back on the campaign itself!


Hmmm well I should first say welcome to pathfinder

Now the first thing I notice is you seem to be stressed about running a game. If you truly do not want to run the game then I think its fair to refuse to do it but make sure the reason is that you dont want to because of personal reasons and not because of doubts to your ability to run the game. The former only changes as a person gains experience and the latter is easily fixed with some training

That aside, if you do intend to run the game then my best advice is to start out simple and small. You already know the basics so you should be ok there so lets look at the adventure. Do yourself a favor and pick up a low level adventure, grab an old dungeon magazine or look through the various Adventure paths or single adventures paizo has. I would be happy to recommend some easy to run ones for you if you like.

Read through that adventure a few times, make sure you have a good idea of why the players are there, what theyre trying to accomplish, and whats going on behind the scenes. If you mess up, then roll with it, its no big deal if a new GM makes a mistake.

Now a few tools that I find help around the table is first initiative cards. These are 3x5 cards that list the characters name and important information. Generally I put Maximum hit points, armor class, perception bonus (I roll that myself rather then asking for a roll), and character name on them. This way when combat happens you first figure out initiative and then when player 1 does their action you move their card to the back, then do the same for each player till combat is over. It helps speed things up in my games as well as others Ive introduced the tool to

Another useful tool is the GM screen for quick rules info. I dont tend to use one myself because I have a near photographic memory but Ive seen others use them to great effect.

A third useful item is a battle map of some kind. I use a mat where I can mark it with dry erase markers then just mark and clean as needed. I picked mine up years ago at Kubla con but Im sure you could get one from any RPG store in your area. I think mine was only $10 and brand new

With those tools at your disposal then combat should flow easily and if you have a good handle on the basics then youll only need to worry about the roleplaying and story aspects of the game. Again those are easily learned through a prewritten adventure thats read through a few times

The Exchange

Practice, do a short mini dungeon for a couple of friends and do not be afraid to make a mistake. You may in fact try to do one "off the cuff" that way you can get a feel of what happens when the party goes left and you expected them to go right.

Oh and welcome to the boards as well as Pathfinder!


If you're worried about remembering the rules, don't forget the Pathfinder SRD. There's even an offline version. I find for finding those smaller rules such as grappling the SRD is easier than the rule book. I find that for skills and such, this is a great way to check specifics. Don't worry about having it all memorized, so long as what you do is "close enough" or you can find it quickly, you'll only upset the rules lawyers.

As for if you will like it or not... If you have stories you like telling or like seeing how others will handle challenges, you'll do fine. There's a lot of reasons people GM, but those last two are the ones I've seen really last.


Drogon wrote:
How big is your group? If it's reasonably sized, is there any kind of "GM Training" sessions going on? We have them at our store, and they've been very popular. The side effect, of course, is that we have more GMs than we ever need, which is a nice problem to have.

I think this may be what I suggest. Thanks for the idea!

Our session is weekly (actually, there are two sessions weekly at different FLGSs) and interest is exploding of late. We're looking at about 3 tables of PFS per night reliably, and future sign-ups are looking like we'll be at four sessions a night within the next few weeks. For example: next session, there are ~15 players and no GMs signed up. With the unpredictability of walk-ins, the organizer is looking for 4 GMs, and has opened up 4 tables for sign-ups.

Thanks to everyone for the input and advice. There are some very helpful ideas in here. I do intend to GM eventually, but I want to be armed with the tools to feel like it'll be fun for me AND for others.

Keep it coming if you have more to add or just want to second (or third) an idea.

Sovereign Court

When I run PFS games I go a bit overboard with the prep. I like to keep the pacing of games running smoothly, and so cutting out downtime as much as possible helps me stay focused on the scenes.

One way I do that is I have a pad of graph paper that is rather large, each sheet is 17" x 22" and has 1" squares on them, and I use that to draw out the maps that will be used in the game. This way, when you have to say "roll initiative" you can just whip out the map, get the figures in position and go. Also, you can label parts of the maps with details that are obvious, but would require you to remember to describe them before getting underway. This way the players can just get that information for themselves.

Likewise, I cut and paste, and then reformat the stat blocks so that each encounter is completely detailed on one sheet of paper, using Open Office (or Word).

One key thing that I do with these "encounters on a single sheet" is that I use the Windings font to put in empty squares for the hit points. When a creature takes damage I then just mark off the number of hit points. It isn't that big of a deal, but shaving out even that little bit of calculating in my head allows me to focus on giving elaborate descriptions of the damage that the characters are doling out to the monsters.

Also on that single sheet is the boxed text that is part of the encounter.

Thus, when I come into to run a game I have the maps ready to go, along with just around five sheets of paper that have all of the relevant elements on them for each encounter. That way I don't have to flip through pages or find buried details in the text, I just grab the next sheet of paper and I'm ready to shape the tone and mood of the Act, rather than being bogged down in details.

This does take a bit of time to prep, and the sheet of graph paper wasn't the cheapest thing in the world, but I'm already a vet GM and found the expense really worth it.

As with the skills cheat sheet, what happens when you spend the time prepping the module, drawing out the map and condensing the module into single sheets, is that you inevitably end up digesting the module more completely than if you just read it through. The more the module is digested and floating in the background, the more you can focus on adding color and keeping the pacing running smoothly.

This does take a bit of time to do, but the benefits I find are that the game runs the way I'd want it run if I was playing, the players look forward to when I run games, and the other GMs complain that I am raising the bar too high for them ;)

Lastly, it's not as if that prep is just used once. If the group is growing then inevitably it'll get used again for future games. As a GM, one of the pleasures is to see different groups of players running through the same module and how they approached the problems.


One rule that I have, is that if a player wants to use a rule, the player is responsible for looking it up.

For example, if a player wants to "fight defensively" and you don't remember what it does, the player is responsible for looking that up in the rulebook and telling you the page number.

I find that saves a lot of work on my end as GM. If nobody knows where the rule is and I can't remember it, then I just make it up.

the other rule is to keep moving. If people don't know where the rule is within a minute, I'll make something up and move on. Hopefully it will be reasonable.


The pathfinder gm screen can help new dms I believe. Or dms that aren't knowledgable.


Welcome to Pathfinder, the Society, and the boards!!

Mok wrote:

When I run PFS games I go a bit overboard with the prep. I like to keep the pacing of games running smoothly, and so cutting out downtime as much as possible helps me stay focused on the scenes.

One way I do that is I have a pad of graph paper that is rather large, each sheet is 17" x 22" and has 1" squares on them, and I use that to draw out the maps that will be used in the game. This way, when you have to say "roll initiative" you can just whip out the map, get the figures in position and go. Also, you can label parts of the maps with details that are obvious, but would require you to remember to describe them before getting underway. This way the players can just get that information for themselves.

I second this. I have been playing the game for a couple of years, but just started GM'ing January of 2010. The graph paper for mapping is great. Although for initiative tracking I use a Combat Pad currently being redesigned (for the better). The graph paper map also lets you draw the map once and then with the growth of your group you don't have to draw it again the second or even third time you run a group through it. One tip I got from another thread but haven't tried yet is covering it with clear contact paper to make it dry erase marker friendly.

Mok wrote:

Likewise, I cut and paste, and then reformat the stat blocks so that each encounter is completely detailed on one sheet of paper, using Open Office (or Word).

One key thing that I do with these "encounters on a single sheet" is that I use the Windings font to put in empty squares for the hit points. When a creature takes damage I then just mark off the number of hit points. It isn't that big of a deal, but shaving out even that little bit of calculating in my head allows me to focus on giving elaborate descriptions of the damage that the characters are doling out to the monsters.

Also on that single sheet is the boxed text that is part of the encounter.

I do something akin to this as well although I find I use a few sheets for some encounters.

Prepping this way does take a bit of extra time, but has made my transition from player to GM much easier. If prepping is a daunting task take it one encounter or even one stat block at a time. In my stat blocks I also put things like swarm traits and such because I am not familiar enough with things like that to do it without cheat sheets and anything about a given spell I may need to reference for a specific NPC. I rely on players for some rules still, then make notes and read up on it later. If you tell the person pressuring you to GM you will need time to prep (maybe even several weeks) I would imagine they will be very receptive.


Just relax.
If it's a hopeless disaster you just go back to being a player. There should be zero reason to feel stress about a game of any kind.


My advice, after over 20 years of GMing is, don't sweat it.

Seriously, you're going to make mistakes. Get that in your head right now. Just own up to them, acknowledge it and move on. Tell your players you're inexperienced and you need their help with adjudicating the rules. If there is someone else in there who GMs, he or she will help.

Don't worry about memorizing all the rules. Figure out what you want your story to do, and then look up just the rules you need for that. Keep it simple to start out. Start everyone at 1st level, core rules only. That get's you down to two books (bestiary and core). Type up or write up some general 30,000 foot view notes, and then in game make more notes as you need to.

You don't need to figure out every NPC, just the major ones. If they walk into a bar and ask the barkeeper's name, make it up on the fly and then note it on your notepad and that he's the barkeep. Need the name of a bar? make it up and note it down too. All you need is the major points, the fine details you can work out in game.

Liberty's Edge

Kierato wrote:
Don't try to become a master of the rules, learn them as the game goes and don't be afraid to ask your players for help.

This. Also, memorize the line "Sure you can do that, if you look up how it works for me."

Also, as far as skills are concerned, there's outlines in the book, but as a GM I'd say just go with your instincts.

Knowing things about a certain animal? Knowledge Nature, according to the book.
If the character's looking it up in an old book? Go ahead and let him use Linguistics if you'd like.

Skills are (and I know I'm about to start a flame-thread here) one of your biggest chances as improvisation of the rules as a GM.


My advice is try to dm a few non-organized play games first. Organized play games like pfs require a greater mastery of the rules then normal games, as players expect a much stricter adherence to RAW. You are less able to handwave mistakes or make up for them. See if you can get a game together that is 'unofficial' before diving into pathfinder society.

That said, running pathfinder society modules is a great way to get started as they are short sweet and self contained, making them an excellent set of training wheels as a dm.


Start with 1st level characters - the game gets more complex for GM and player alike as they go up in level.

Modules are a good way to start.

Look at your own play style: Are you comfortable role-playing? or do you prefer to use dice for everything? There's a ton of advice out there. The best is still: Just Do It.


Skill DCs

Perception DCs

One strategy for early on is to let the PC state they are making the attempt and then see where the dice land.....

You might have TMI (too much information) when every PC rolls a 1!

I often do the opposite on PBP (play by post)

Example

Perception check

DC 10

Spoiler:

You notice a flying squirrel in the tree

DC 20

Spoiler:

The squirrel has a nut

DC 35

Spoiler:

The squrrel has fleas

DC 50

Spoiler:

The fleas have the plague


I promise you, GMing is nowhere near as scary as it seems. Really, all you're doing dips entertaining your friends. The point is that the experience should be fun for all of you, including the GM. When planning the game, keep that in mind. Have fun making quirky NPCs. Do their voices and accents; no one cares if you're doing the Italian accent wrong as long as you do it flamboyantly wrong.

To take a lot of the pressure off yourself, remember this one tip... The rules aren't important. They're there to facilitate your game, not to stress you out. There are probably one or two people in your group who know the rulebook backward and forward and would be happy to help you out whenever you need it. Of course you should read the book and try to have a general idea of the rules, but don't stress too much. Once you've been GMing for a while, you'll find that you remember the rules better by using them.

If you really are worried about your lack of rules knowledge, make yourself a little notebook or cheat sheet to hide behind the GM screen.

The most important thing is to have fun. Remember, you're roleplaying, not roll-playing. The dice don't own you, and ultimately you're the GM and what you say goes. Your gaming group will be supportive of any little flaws as long as you're having fun, and if they're not, you shouldn't be gaming with them anyway.

Community / Forums / Pathfinder / Pathfinder First Edition / Advice / Considering GMing, need advice All Messageboards

Want to post a reply? Sign in.
Recent threads in Advice