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Drunken Monk help


Advice


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

So I've finally gotten the chance to play a character concept I've always wanted to try: A drunken master. I haven't been allowed to play a monk (and in 3.5 didn't want to) nor ToB with our regular DM and someone else is stepping up to the plate.

Now how do I build it?

What I want is a character whose fighting style resembles Zui Quan and if possible gets power from drinking. I'm perfectly willing to play the drinking as a flavor thing and not have a mechanic, and I've given up on that prestige class. I'm not after replicating the abilities of the prestige class, rather the actual fighting style. (the improvised thing is a Jackie Chan hallmark, it has little to do with Drunken boxing itself)

Should I go unarmed swordsage (setting sun counter driven) or is it possible to do with the Monk? I'm not sure a Treant-monk would play right, and I'm not sure I can make a monk that can hold up his end of the battle. On the other hand I'm not sure if I want to bring in the tome of battle if I can avoid it.

Our stat generation method is roll four, drop lowest reroll ones- and I'll be rolling him up Sunday with the rest of the group, as a level 2 character.

Any and all advice is welcome- I can do the build, but if anyone has wisdom to share I'd be happy for it.

Dark Archive

in 3.5 i had an old (i.e. -2 physical stats + 2 mental stats) monk4/ninja4/drunken master 6. took the feats to stack monk and ninja levels. was actually awesome, but i never did use the drinking in combat. was mainly focused around flying kick and throat punch feats.

it worked pretty sweet for me, even tho the DM ruled i only got 1/2 character wealth because i was a disgraced drunk who's overbearing nature caused his daughter to get killed trying to impress me.

the drunken master levels do get kinda bland, so you may be better off not taking them

setting sun maneuvers could work rather nicely to replicate the actual fighting style.

also the feat catch off-guard may work nicely


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I just wish it didn't take so long for improvised weapon mastery


Something to remember with most forms of 'drunken boxing' is that you don't actually have to consume alcohol to do the movements, hell it's more likely to cripple you if you try to do this while pissed.

With such a style, flowing movements and singularly powerful strikes are your best bet. Ask the DM if you can take the Players Guide II (3.5 version) variant of the Monk, which allows you to make a single powerful strike, and couple that by making this attack count as a Full Progression BAB. Drinking could be a part of the style, but again it would likely be something used in training (going out on a limb here) to help the novice get the 'feel' for the flowing movements and 'staggering' footwork that is the most commonly attributes placed on this fighting style by modern film-makers and writers.

Focus on your Acrobatics so you're as nimble as you can possibly be, so you can run around the enemy, provoking Attacks of Opportunity and avoiding them with ease, to allow your allies to flank with ease, and boost your Wisdom as much as possible to raise your AC. A Drunken Master (heh) should be annoyingly hard to hit, twisting out of the way just at the last possible minute and making it seem like sheer bloody luck.

Just found the page I was after in the 3.5 Player's Handbook II, page 51, Decisive Strike, does double damage but has the same 'penalty' to attack that Flurry Does, and at 11th level you can make two attacks. Tweak it a bit to allow the monk to make both attacks at her Level instead of her Moderate BAB and that will allow your Drunken Master to lay on the hurt with deliberate, powerful blows rather than the Flailing Fists of Fail that most Monks end up resorting to.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I know that drunken fist is one of the worst fighting styles to do while tanked (I'd probably suggest western boxing, but hey) but the idea is just so hilarious (turning drinking to an advantage) I can't ignore it. Besides who wants to be a sober drunken master?

As for Decisive strike...I'm not sure if it fits. There seems to be as many rabbit punches in drunken fist as anything- although this may be due to Jackie being as Mal Reynolds would say "fast as a freak".

Now this sounds like you're suggesting combat expertise... interesting. Not necessarily good, but interesting.

Now Decisive strike combine wonderfuly with Rolibar's gambit and combat reflexes but, that would lower his AC... grr..


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:

I know that drunken fist is one of the worst fighting styles to do while tanked (I'd probably suggest western boxing, but hey) but the idea is just so hilarious (turning drinking to an advantage) I can't ignore it. Besides who wants to be a sober drunken master?

As for Decisive strike...I'm not sure if it fits. There seems to be as many rabbit punches in drunken fist as anything- although this may be due to Jackie being as Mal Reynolds would say "fast as a freak".

Now this sounds like you're suggesting combat expertise... interesting. Not necessarily good, but interesting.

Now Decisive strike combine wonderfuly with Rolibar's gambit and combat reflexes but, that would lower his AC... grr..

Monk can make an effective 'anvil' for the rest of the party to beat on in terms of flanking and/or area effects, given their saves pretty much nerf the hell out of most AoE spells/effects.

Combat Expertise also allows your Monk to shift his AC higher and while the Monk gains many of the feats that you require Combat Expertise to get normally, the bonus to AC can be a life-saver against combat-monsters, and it also enables you to take Improved Trip and Disarm while saving your bonus feats for the handy-dandy feats such as Deflect Arrows, Scorpion Style, Gorgon's Fist and Medusa's Wrath. Spring Attack also works well, enabling your Monk to swoop in, stun the crap out of a caster and run away again so your own casters can bring the pain on their turn to an immobile enemy.

Decisive Strike may or may not fit your concept of the Drunken Master, but it's an option, and I know there are times when people look at the Flurry and think "Wow that's a lot of numbers." Flurry has a lot of potential, especially if your first hit is a Stunning Fist, and it connects, meaning that the target drops all weapons, cannot take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC and loses it's Dexterity bonus to AC. I've seen Rogues take this for the sole purpose of being able to Sneak Attack in solo combat, it's that much fun for classes in melee range.

May I suggest Catch Off-Guard as one of the feats your character takes for flavour issues? Go into battle with a bottle of cheap wine in one hand and a torch in the other. Kick enemy in the nuts or throat, stunning them, smash the bottle over their head, dealing bludgeoning damage and dousing them with alcohol, whack them with the torch and run away, leaving them to burn while you return to more orthodox styles on their now thoroughily intimidated companions.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:
Monk can make an effective 'anvil' for the rest of the party to beat on in terms of flanking and/or area effects, given their saves pretty much nerf the hell out of most AoE spells/effects.

I've yet to see a defensive specialist work, in my experience damage dealing wins every time. I'd love to be wrong though.

HalfOrcHeavyMetal wrote:
Spring Attack also works well, enabling your Monk to swoop in, stun the crap out of a caster and run away again so your own casters can bring the pain on their turn to an immobile enemy.

Spring attack can't combine with either flurry or Decisive- a shame.

Flurry does more damage than Decisive- more attack rolls is more hits, if you attack seven times in a round, you're going to hit at least once. If you attack three times (which is how many attacks an update version of decisive strike would have at lvl 20...I think) you may miss all three times, doing no damage. Decisive strike is worse unless your character is built around AoO, which is trike at best.

Catch off guard is nice for flavor...but a trap. you can't flurry an unarmed weapon-you're other weapons do more damage too. I'm not sure if a flat footed condition (for an unarmed opponent) is worth those hits. And I don't know if the monk could spare the feats.


I would say getting Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, possibly even whirlwind attack (since you're already up that tree).

If you want the single powerful blows, Vital Strike tree is good too. And I believe I read that the official ruling allows Vital Strike to pair with Spring Attack.

I would also ask your DM about either house ruling a feat that allows you to use a tankard or flask as a monk weapon. (thus capable of flurrying with it).

If you really want the "drunk" flavor to it, perhaps another homebrew feat that gives you a stat bonus (maybe something like a +1 bonus, additonal +1 for every five monk levels to Str and Dex, and a negative of the same to Int and Cha while drunk, negatives to Str, Dex, Int, Cha while sober for less than a week.)


Ravenot wrote:

I would say getting Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack, possibly even whirlwind attack (since you're already up that tree).

If you want the single powerful blows, Vital Strike tree is good too. And I believe I read that the official ruling allows Vital Strike to pair with Spring Attack.

I would also ask your DM about either house ruling a feat that allows you to use a tankard or flask as a monk weapon. (thus capable of flurrying with it).

If you really want the "drunk" flavor to it, perhaps another homebrew feat that gives you a stat bonus (maybe something like a +1 bonus, additonal +1 for every five monk levels to Str and Dex, and a negative of the same to Int and Cha while drunk, negatives to Str, Dex, Int, Cha while sober for less than a week.)

Perhaps [Drunken Mastery] Homebrew Feat would allow the Monk to gain +4 Str and Con for every bottle (2 tankard per bottle, I think it works out as, taking 2 rounds to drink a whole bottle of wine or beer) of standard alcohol (DC 10) and a coresponding decrease of -2 to Int, Wisdom and Charisma, stacking with itself, using the Monk's level as the number of rounds the ability increases/decreases lasts.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

2 rounds for something weaker than a rage, which a Barbarian gets as a free action? No thanks.

As it stands, I'm thinking straight monk won't cut it. You're all giving great feats for flavor, but the monk isn't powerful enough to not optimize.

But, in the effort of staving off The dreaded Tome of Battle here's a suggestion:

Monk4/Alchemist16 with Kung Fu Genius(dragon compendium)+superior unarmed strike(ToB- but it has nothing to do with the sublime way)+monk's robe.

Or simpler: Alchemist with superior unarmed strike.

The Alchemist's mutagen (and to an extent his extracts) can be re-flavored as moonshine (One hundred percent proof, just how I like it!) , a brew made by a man with an interesting recipe book. The alchemist gets a bonus against saves vs poison- and eventually immunity, this could be due to his ridiculous tolerance.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Also: bomb= Molotov cocktail


Sure, but a reflavored alchemist isn't really the swaying, dodging drunken master. Its just an angry drunk guy. And wasn't the whole point originally to play a monk class?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

What if you use your mutagens to boost dex?

I'm not sure- I just want to play the concept without be useless, and my group has seen it's share of useless monks. And I'm hesitant to use ToB if I can at all avoid it.


At least in my experience, Monk works really well as a dip for a few levels. Two levels gets you Wis to AC, Evasion, and Unarmed Strike. Four levels gets you a d8 damage die, fast movement, and a Ki pool, which is just fun. Also, great saves either way.

Monk/Alchemist is the way to go if you're going to claim that your character really DOES benefit from booze. Any DM that'd even consider allowing Tome of Battle will let you say "Hey my extracts are alcoholic," if that's how you want to RP. For that matter, alcohol is a pretty useful organic solvent, so you're not even making it up, necessarily. (You can't have "100% proof" though; percent and proof are both units of measurement, but they differ, so it's like saying "100 miles kilometers." Proof is twice the percent of alcohol by volume. It takes pretty extraordinary means to get above 95% or so abv, so you should either have a magical way of creating pure alcohol, or settle at 100 proof/50% abv, for your RP.)

Monk/Rogue would make a great drunken monkey build. Sneak Attack is precision damage is eye pokes and kicks to the balls, and Rogue Crawl and Stand Up would both fit pretty well with a Drunken Master. It's a shame that the Feint and Dazzling Display type feats are kind of pointless for melee rogues, because flavor wise, they're exactly what you'd want, too. And hey, Monkey King is an awesome thief!


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
threemilechild wrote:
You can't have "100% proof" though; percent and proof are both units of measurement

I know that, I've been to college- it's from the dub of the original Drunken Master- you should see it, it's good, thought the second one (The Legend of the Drunken Master) is a lot better. I thought it was funny.

As for drunken monkey- that's a different style, but that's exactly how I'd build it- Monk/Rogue.

Here's my question: How should I level it? Four levels Monk then straight Alchemist? Two monk two alchemist two monk fourteen alchemist? Or Do I alternate one by one until I've reached four monk levels (I think 4 levels is the optimal monk dip)

The other question is stat allocation and race- if I take Kung Fu Genius I'll use int for everything. Then I could play an elf... Elf could be neat, it seems to be the least likely race to be a drunken monk.


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
it's from the dub of the original Drunken Master- you should see it, it's good, thought the second one (The Legend of the Drunken Master) is a lot better. I thought it was funny.

Oh, yeah. I'm not sure if I've seen the first one, though I've seen Drunken Master II in several versions. My favorite HK movie for bad subtitles was the first vhs I saw of Burning Paradise. "What, you think I'm rabbit?"

I'd probably go Alchemist at first, since they're proficient with all simple weapons, and carry a longspear -- I love reach weapons. (This works well once you get unarmed strikes, too, since even though you can't flurry with a longspear, you threaten a wide area and get plenty of AOO -- Enlarge Person is on the Alchemist Formulae list, so you could threaten everything within twenty feet of you at second level.) You'd also get a small amount of bombs (to use at range, or to soften groups before you close) and a mutagen and an extract (or more likely, several if you have an Int bonus). They both have the same hit die, and Alchemist has a little more starting gold. Conversely, a level 1 monk can flurry and miss a lot...

After that, take your 4 monk levels -- powered by your mutagens. If you can't beg Mage Armor off your party, get a wand ASAP. You'll need Use Magic Device, but it's a class skill and you'll want Int.

(Whoah. Kung Fu Genius is, like, totally overpowered in this build! I love it!)

Even though KFG removes the necessity of Wis, you'll still want Dex and Con along with your Int, probably Str as well. Elf gives you bonuses to two of those, but depending on how you roll, you might not want to take the hit to Con.

I think your other best choices would be human (as always) or half-orc.
So, what other feats do you need? You'll have to take KFG at 1st if you take your monk level at 2nd. I can't think of anything else that you NEED to take at 1st level. If you go the Enlarge Person route and carry a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes is a must, though I suppose it could wait until 3rd if you get the scores to be an elf. (Muahaha! I love this! If only I could convince my DM to let me have Kung Fu Genius I'd be so tempted to use this build for my own next character...)

Half-orc fits for flavor, I'd say, but I'm not sure it's worth giving up the feat and skills for darkvision and ferocity, for this build. Pretty much only if the whole rest of your party have darkvision as well.


Pathfinder Adventure Path Subscriber
MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
threemilechild wrote:
You can't have "100% proof" though; percent and proof are both units of measurement

I know that, I've been to college- it's from the dub of the original Drunken Master- you should see it, it's good, thought the second one (The Legend of the Drunken Master) is a lot better. I thought it was funny.

As for drunken monkey- that's a different style, but that's exactly how I'd build it- Monk/Rogue.

Here's my question: How should I level it? Four levels Monk then straight Alchemist? Two monk two alchemist two monk fourteen alchemist? Or Do I alternate one by one until I've reached four monk levels (I think 4 levels is the optimal monk dip)

The other question is stat allocation and race- if I take Kung Fu Genius I'll use int for everything. Then I could play an elf... Elf could be neat, it seems to be the least likely race to be a drunken monk.

Well, you could make an argument for an elf of such nature of you played up the whole powerful "fey wine" angle- depending on your elves it might be associated with them. Stat wise, it would boost Int and Cha at the expense of Con. Dex and Int seem pretty important to your character concept and roll, so it's up to you if they would be worth a -2 to Con. +2 on Perception and the bonuses against Enchantment are pretty good. The other stuff you might not get too much use of.

OTOH, humans would give you a +2 to one ability score (and no penalties to any others). The extra Skill point and feats could help you make a more versatile character.

Lantern Lodge

Is Monk/Duelist discarded then?


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber
threemilechild wrote:
I'm not sure if I've seen the first one, though I've seen Drunken Master II in several versions.

The second one is a superior film, and if you only saw one of them, that should be it, it's Jackie in his prime, and has my favorite fight sequences of any movie, which is a plus. The first one is still good, at really helped create the Kung Fu comedy genre. The Sifu was great, but the voice Chan is dubbed with is awful. Very White sounding.

threemilechild wrote:
I'd probably go Alchemist at first, since they're proficient with all simple weapons, and carry a longspear.

I was thinking the same thing- perhaps using cestus until the monk levels (underpowered I know, but that way I could go unarmed that whole way) or perhaps a quarterstaff as it is a monk weapon and I might be able to keep the monk flavor even before the monk levels. Though longspear is the strongest option, to be sure.

How many levels of alchemist would make a good base? I'm thinking two (he'll start as a 2nd level character) Alchemist1/Monk1 would be nice, as he'd have all his bases covered out the gate, but no BaB when not flurrying and a weaken flurry kinda hurts.

threemilechild wrote:
After that, take your 4 monk levels -- powered by your mutagens. If you can't beg Mage Armor off your party, get a wand ASAP. You'll need Use Magic Device, but it's a class skill and you'll want Int.

First off, shield is on the alchemist list, so mage armor may not be needed- though having both would be nice. Second UMD is Charisma based, which is not the best for either class.

threemilechild wrote:
(Whoah. Kung Fu Genius is, like, totally overpowered in this build! I love it!)

I'm not sure if it's overpowered, I think it's just needed to make it playable at all. And it IS a paizo feat (from dragon...)

threemilechild wrote:

Even though KFG removes the necessity of Wis, you'll still want Dex and Con along with your Int, probably Str as well. Elf gives you bonuses to two of those, but depending on how you roll, you might not want to take the hit to Con.

I think your other best choices would be human (as always) or half-orc.
So, what other feats do you need? You'll have to take KFG at 1st if you take your monk level at 2nd. I can't think of anything else that you NEED to take at 1st level. If you go the Enlarge Person route and carry a reach weapon, Combat Reflexes is a must, though I suppose it could wait until 3rd if you get the scores to be an elf. (Muahaha! I love this! If only I could convince my DM to let me have Kung Fu Genius I'd be so tempted to use this build for my own next character...)

I only suggested Elf as it's the least appropriate race for a drunken master from a flavor sense- dwarves, orcs, halfings and gnomes all seem like drinkers to me, and that goes double for half-races. But Elves are alway so refined and dignified. It would be funny to play one as a drunk, flinging himself into battle with reckless abandon, grin on his face as his pugilistic wrath is lain upon his enemies.

That said, he'd probably be human, as he really needs that feat.

I'm getting kinda excited about this build myself.

Me'mori wrote:
Is Monk/Duelist discarded then?

I honestly never even thought of it, it could work really well combined with kung fu genius. I'm not sure if it works for a drunken master- focus on piercing, and only using the one hand...the defensive bonuses would be cool.


I really like the idea of an Alchemist with mutagens and extracts as booze. The last time I played a drunken master (with the 3e PrC) it was inspired partially by reading a wikipedia article on herbal tinctures in alcohol used in Chinese medicine, and this would fit great with that concept. I might be compelled to play a similar character in an upcoming game. I doubt anybody I play with would allow the KFG feat, but I could probably muddle by without it. I guess that if I used mutagens to pump up Str it might make more sense to keep my monk bonuses associated with Wisdom anyhow.

Taking lots of Alchemist levels to get lots of drinks worth drinking during combat seems like a fun plan. I wonder whether it will hurt to give up the flurry of blows progression though. This was a big weakness with multiclass and PrC monks in 3.5. In Pathfinder FoB works more like TWF, but it seems unclear whether a multiclassed monk could take Improved or Greater Two Weapon fighting as feats to enhance his existing FoB. If not then I wonder what the interaction of FoB and the TWF feats is. My inclination would be to let multiclass monks advance their FoB with the feats if desired, but I'm not sure if that is really supported by the rules.

The drunken master class from 3.5 actually has a few useful/fun features. One is that it can drink as a move action. This is open to DM interpretation but might reasonably allow you to consume extracts or mutagens as a move action. Drinking two buffs in one round might be fun and possibly even effective. Alchemists can also get a discovery to put two effects in one drink, so you could potentially do a whole lot of buffing in a single round.


You've mentioned a lot of 3.5 material, like Kung Fu Genius and such, so I would assume that's all kosher in this character.

I know most people don't think it's worth it, but I always liked Vow of Poverty with Drunken Master. Anything you pick up is a magic weapon that way. That would stack nicely with the new Improvised Weapon feats and the Drunken Master PrC. You'd have to throw a few levels of Rogue in, just 'cause the enemy will pretty much ALWAYS be flat-footed.

If you multiclass monk/rogue into DM, it's a bit feat intense early in the levels, but you can get some sick improvised weapon damage...

It'll take Sacred Vow, VoP, the three Improvised Weapon feats, Aescetic Rogue, and ...crap, I can't remember the feat's name...that one in ToB that ups your unarmed damage a lot... and heck, Improved Natural Attack since PF has so many more feats. Oh, and of course Dodge and Great Fortitude as prereqs. Seriously, though, mid-level or so you're a beast.

But then, pretty much anything in your hand becomes a magic weapon that deals an insane amount of damage and bypasses serious DR. You could literally beat people to death with pebbles you pick up off the ground (improvised blunt shuriken).

I played a guy like this once. You get a SERIOUS bonus to intimidate when you pick up one dead victim and use him to beat your new opponent as an improvised reach weapon. The best part was as a VoP drunken master, I was pretty much playing a homeless guy that followed the party around.

Dark Archive

thegreenteagamer wrote:

You've mentioned a lot of 3.5 material, like Kung Fu Genius and such, so I would assume that's all kosher in this character.

I know most people don't think it's worth it, but I always liked Vow of Poverty with Drunken Master. Anything you pick up is a magic weapon that way. That would stack nicely with the new Improvised Weapon feats and the Drunken Master PrC. You'd have to throw a few levels of Rogue in, just 'cause the enemy will pretty much ALWAYS be flat-footed.

If you multiclass monk/rogue into DM, it's a bit feat intense early in the levels, but you can get some sick improvised weapon damage...

It'll take Sacred Vow, VoP, the three Improvised Weapon feats, Aescetic Rogue, and ...crap, I can't remember the feat's name...that one in ToB that ups your unarmed damage a lot... and heck, Improved Natural Attack since PF has so many more feats. Oh, and of course Dodge and Great Fortitude as prereqs. Seriously, though, mid-level or so you're a beast.

But then, pretty much anything in your hand becomes a magic weapon that deals an insane amount of damage and bypasses serious DR. You could literally beat people to death with pebbles you pick up off the ground (improvised blunt shuriken).

I played a guy like this once. You get a SERIOUS bonus to intimidate when you pick up one dead victim and use him to beat your new opponent as an improvised reach weapon. The best part was as a VoP drunken master, I was pretty much playing a homeless guy that followed the party around.

except you cant take Improved natural attack for monks any more. also I'm not sure you're allowed to own the booze with vow of poverty, the whoe eschew material possessions thing.


Name Violation wrote:
except you cant take Improved natural attack for monks any more. also I'm not sure you're allowed to own the booze with vow of poverty, the whoe eschew material possessions thing.

Well, ImpNatAtk was just adding to the unarmed, which adds to the improvised in Drunken Master. As for the booze thing, I think you're allowed to own up to 1GP worth of stuff with VoP. A gallon of ale, which is several bottles worth, is only 2SP. A mug full is 2CP each.

You could own a sack (1sp), a peasant's outfit (1sp), and up to four gallons of ale before you hit your limit.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

This magical hobo idea is pretty cool, though my group had a gentleman's agreement to stay away from Vow Of Poverty- it's to powerful in low-magic campaigns and crippling in high magic ones.

But keep any and all ideas flowing, this stuff is entertaining.


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:
This magical hobo idea is pretty cool, though my group had a gentleman's agreement to stay away from Vow Of Poverty- it's to powerful in low-magic campaigns and crippling in high magic ones.

bourgeoisie capitalist adventurers


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

I'll have you know that my adventuring group's credo is "from each according to his ability, to each according to his need" when it comes to fighting and splitting the loot.

Dark Archive

thegreenteagamer wrote:
Name Violation wrote:
except you cant take Improved natural attack for monks any more. also I'm not sure you're allowed to own the booze with vow of poverty, the whoe eschew material possessions thing.

Well, ImpNatAtk was just adding to the unarmed, which adds to the improvised in Drunken Master. As for the booze thing, I think you're allowed to own up to 1GP worth of stuff with VoP. A gallon of ale, which is several bottles worth, is only 2SP. A mug full is 2CP each.

You could own a sack (1sp), a peasant's outfit (1sp), and up to four gallons of ale before you hit your limit.

Quote:

Vow of poverty

Special: To fulfill your vow, you must not own or use any material possessions, with the following exceptions: You may carry and use ordinary (neither magic nor masterwork) simple weapons, usually just a quarterstaff that serves as a walking stick. You may wear simple clothes (usually just a homespun robe, possibly also including a hat and sandals) with no magical properties. You may carry enough food to sustain you for one day in a simple (nonmagic) sack or bag. You may carry and use a spell component pouch. You may not use any magic item of any sort, though you can benefit from magic items used on your: behalf —you can drink a potion of cure serious wounds a friend gives you, receive a spell cast from a wand, scroll, or staff, or ride on your companion's ebon fly. You may not, however, "borrow” a cloak of resistance or any other magic item from a companion for even a single round, nor may you yourself cast a spell from a scroll, wand or staff. If you break your vow, you immediately and irrevocably lose the benefit of this feat. You may not take another feat to replace it

no 1 gp limit, and no mention of drinks. you can have 1 days food, but it never says drinks


Name Violation wrote:
except you cant take Improved natural attack for monks any more. also I'm not sure you're allowed to own the booze with vow of poverty, the whoe eschew material possessions thing.

I'd let you get away with a keg of PBR and a tin cup, but no 300 GP bottle of elven wine from Kyonin.


I would suggest getting 4 levels of monk, maybe alternating every other level for a bit. Ki pool is very useful and you can at least use the AC boost ability.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

Well, he's been built- He's a human Monk1/Alchemist1 using fractional BaB and the feat Kung Fu Genius. I had to waste a feat on toughness as he rolled poorly of his hit points at level two, But he has so many bonus feats it's not even funny (he's a level two character with 7 feats total).

I think he'll be fairly decent overall, His atributes are Str16, Dex14, Con12, Int16, Wis10, Cha9- not terrible for the build, though I do wish I had rolled higher. He's not the main melee guy in the party, so I don't have too much too worry about- he's a fantastic secondary healer with his potions, and he can provide ranged support with his bombs, alchemist fires acid flasks and his fireworks.

I'm not sure how I'll level him, totaling monk4/alchemist16 so he can get greator mutagen. What I don't know is if I should take al the monk levels at once to get the ki pool as quick as possible or if I should alternate.

Thoughts?


As soon as you're finished with your last Monk level, remember to convert to the faith of Cayden Cailean, PF's CG god of freedom, ale, wine, and bravery! :)


MinstrelintheGallery wrote:

...he's a fantastic secondary healer with his potions, and he can provide ranged support with his bombs, alchemist fires acid flasks and his fireworks.

I'm not sure how I'll level him, totaling monk4/alchemist16 so he can get greator mutagen. What I don't know is if I should take al the monk levels at once to get the ki pool as quick as possible or if I should alternate.

Thoughts?

It sounds like you're more interested in attacking ranged and don't really need or care about the melee, so I'd recommend taking Alchemist up to four (at charlevel 5), then doing your Monk levels (until 8) and then finishing up Alchemist. This is largely base attack considerations -- you lose BA for multiclassing if you have less than 4 levels of a medium BAB class -- but it means you'll have a 2nd level extract and 2d6 bomb while you're finishing up your Monk levels. (I highly advise going Longspear route if you do this, since extracts provoke and your caster level for concentrating is going to suck, like, forever.)

If you want to hit things with your fists while you can, take the rest of your Monk levels as the next three. This is probably what I'd do, since a monk who can buff himself seems less underpowered than a caster missing a level. Also you'd get Evasion quicker, which can be a lifesaver. But it does have the downside that your hp will be low at low levels -- apparently already an issue for you -- since your favored class should be Alchemist.

In general, I think multiclassing caster and non-caster is most painful when the levels are pretty even, so I alternate as little as possible. It's almost always better to be good at something than to be crappy at everything.

Oh, one last consideration -- I don't know if you've seen the thread about why Brew Potion may allow you to brew potions of spells you have no access to, but if not, you should look it up.


Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber

No, I have little interest in ranged combat (the monk levels only weaken a bomber) but it's cool to have a variety of moves. Most monks can't do significant splash damage. I was planning to get all the monk level asap, but I wasn't 100% certain.

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