
Arnwyn |
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I'm not sure if this was done already, but I created a summary of all the fame points a party can earn during Council of Thieves, just to get an idea of what would be a 'most likely' scenario, as well as to see what the max a party could get.
Rescuing Arael: 1 or 2
More Heroics (Capture Bandits, Defeat Whitechin the Goblin King, Slay a Shadow Beast): 1 - 3
Return stolen goods from Bastards of Erebus: 1
Defeat Bastards: 1
Max: 7
Part 2: The Sixfold Trial (Levels 3-5)
Complete performance: -1 to 3
Attack the mayor: lose all points!
Make it through Asmodean Knot: -3 or 2
Max: 5
Part 3: What Lies in Dust (Levels 5-7)
Win Hellcaller's Cup: 1
Defeat Thrax without killing him: 1
Successfully navigating Delvehaven: 2
Max: 4
Part 4: The Infernal Syndrome (Levels 7-9)
Sidequest - Find the Mayor: 1
Sidequest - Missing Nobles: 1
Sidequest - Vampire Panic: 1
Murder Mayor: -5
Kill guards: -1
Deactivate infernal engine: 3 (fail: -5)
Max: 6
Part 5: Mother of Flies (Levels 9-11)
Defeat the Council siege: 1
Rescue Eirtein from Walcourt guildhouse: 1
Return stolen objects: 0 - 5
Curse of shadows lifted: 3
Max: 10
Part 6: The Twice-Damned Prince (Levels 11-13)
Maximum possible starting Fame Points: 32
Fail to break up Blacknapes: -1d6
Does this make sense? Did I miss anything? I did a search in the PDF, so I think I caught all references.
In any case, hopefully this might be of some use to someone.

Tikael |
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I got 24 possible popularity points on my count, if the party goes in with 32 fame points and only spends the minimum (5 points is all that is absolutely required to avoid a huge ding to your fame points), then you have 27 unspent fame points. This would be a +87 (32 + 27 + 4 [bonus to cha checks from saving the nobles]) to the final fame check. The party would then also get +2 for every party member not making the check (This would be +10 for my group, 5 players one of whom has a feat that gives an additional +2 on aid another) they also add in the charisma modifier to the roll (this should be done by the party's smooth talker so I will assume a +3), and another +4 if anyone has leadership.
So best case scenario: +100 (96 for most 4 person groups without leadership.)
What my group will likely end up with: +84 (my group basically refuses to return stolen goods, which dings then for an automatic 6 fame points. This is what I get for running a campaign with only neutral characters)

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Wow, so it's pretty hard to get that then. Assuming a normal 4 player group that spends nothing and got everything, it'd be 24(PP)+32(unspent Fame)+8(players)+32(initial fame check modifier) = +96
96 + x (charisma) + y (leadership) + z (other modifiers) would influence the final roll. So even if we assume a 4 charisma, 4 leadership, and 4 from nobles, that'd be +108. So a party could then auto-succeed.
They start having to roll if they spend/miss 8+ points. If they spend/miss 28 points, they just can't get that ending.
Something to keep in mind, interesting. :)

Tikael |

well, if you don't spend at least 5 FP to get both noble houses to support you then you end up losing out on a +8 (4 PP and the +4 bonus on Cha based checks), not spending points on the hellknights can end up in lost points but I could not find any immediate loss of points, merely more work for the PCs and the very real threat of a loss of PP. To help out I will be having some of the PCs allies have other side quests for fame points
Example: I made bluehood a member of a secretive assassins guild, mostly aligned with the council but the schism hit them too and bluehood will have some missions for the PCs to take out some of the members of the schisming (sp? is it even a word?) portion of the assassins guild.

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Tikael's numbers are correct. Our sorceror had a 30 charisma and leadership, so he made the check pretty easy. We got the best possible result on a four or better-- he rolled a 7. For most groups, it'll be 50/50 between them owning Westcrown and them still being under Cheliax's partial thumb.
or, like Turin's group, sitting on top of a burnt out ruin, Fallout style.
-t

Turin the Mad |
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Ice Titan wrote:Tikael's numbers are correct. Our sorceror had a 30 charisma and leadership, so he made the check pretty easy. We got the best possible result on a four or better-- he rolled a 7. For most groups, it'll be 50/50 between them owning Westcrown and them still being under Cheliax's partial thumb.or, like Turin's group, sitting on top of a burnt out ruin, Fallout style.
-t
I can't WAIT to see that happen - the burned out "Fallout style" remnants of Westcrown being brought under the hobnailed boots of Egorian's C.I.C. (Admiral whatshisface?), the 'heroes' exiled to the Stolen Lands ... good times ... good times...

Ghostalker |

psionichamster wrote:I can't WAIT to see that happen - the burned out "Fallout style" remnants of Westcrown being brought under the hobnailed boots of Egorian's C.I.C. (Admiral whatshisface?), the 'heroes' exiled to the Stolen Lands ... good times ... good times...Ice Titan wrote:Tikael's numbers are correct. Our sorceror had a 30 charisma and leadership, so he made the check pretty easy. We got the best possible result on a four or better-- he rolled a 7. For most groups, it'll be 50/50 between them owning Westcrown and them still being under Cheliax's partial thumb.or, like Turin's group, sitting on top of a burnt out ruin, Fallout style.
-t
I'm telling you, without that contract Liebdaga is gonna break out and oh man, almost a worthy campaign idea in it's own lol.

Geeky Frignit |

Ice Titan wrote:...Our sorceror had a 30 charisma...Even though this'll likely brand me as a total idiot: How?
Starting score of 18 + 2 racial + 3 raises on the way to level 13 puts him at 23, where does he get the other +7 from? Items? Which ones?
For 63,500 and a lenient DM with regards to magical items, you can use a Tome of Leadership and Influence +1 and a Headband of Alluring Charisma +6 for a +7 total.

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(Nobody did find any that I missed, did they?)
No, I have the same totals as you (didn't write down the individual sources) except for Mother of Flies, where a rough reading led me to miss six points.
I also came up with a total of 22 possible popularity points in The Twice-Damned Prince. Some more of my musings here

Ben Fisher89 |
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There are a few more fame points I found actually. In The Infernal Syndrome it is stated on page 81 in the Cityfolk and Dottari section of wandering encounters it is states that it is ok to award PCs a bonus Fame point or Two if they go and help protect either of these groups with great zeal or public displays of heroics against the wondering Devils.

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Incredibly helpful thread, thank you all so much!
I do have a concern about the weight of Popularity Points as opposed to Fame Points:
For stopping the assassins from killing Armon Rosala, the party is awarded 1PP (completing a side quest) and given the option to spend 2FP to gain one more PP - Wouldn't that actually lower their total points at the end? Take 1PP for the win or spend 2FP to gain a total of 2PP?