Some of the discussion about the Forgotten Realms has got me thinking, is there any chance of a 64 page or so book detailing a plane of existence that every so often meets some kind of recurrent doom. Some place to spill out refugee's onto the planes and give the PCs the ability to save the world, without actually blowing up the main game world is they fail.
Interesting idea.
I have nothing to add to the request, and I'll have to defer to James Jacobs.
Having said that, I do like it when players and GM feel free to utilize a campaign setting to its fullest.
May I ask a question of the Original Poster though?
Do you really want to blow up a world? Or do you want to feel empowered to affect the world in a major way, and you want a product that facilitates that?
Some of the discussion about the Forgotten Realms has got me thinking, is there any chance of a 64 page or so book detailing a plane of existence that every so often meets some kind of recurrent doom. Some place to spill out refugee's onto the planes and give the PCs the ability to save the world, without actually blowing up the main game world is they fail.
I think there are a world or two that have already blown up in the Glorion solar system.
The Armageddon Echo is pretty much what you seek.
Check out the so-named adventure in PF 15.
Creative Director
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We actually DID blow up Golarion. It's just that our adventures are generally set 10,000 years after that explosion.
Pathfinder Adventure Path #15's Armageddon Echo is the closest we've come to detailing a recursive exploding realm. The PCs can't really save it, but the Second Darkness AP as a whole DOES allow the world to get smashed pretty hard if the PCs fail.
As for a standalone 64 page book about the end of the world or something like that... maybe someday. For now, we're focusing on continuing to explore Golarion, though.
Interesting idea.
I have nothing to add to the request, and I'll have to defer to James Jacobs.
Having said that, I do like it when players and GM feel free to utilize a campaign setting to its fullest.
May I ask a question of the Original Poster though?
Do you really want to blow up a world? Or do you want to feel empowered to affect the world in a major way, and you want a product that facilitates that?
Actually I was thinking of a world precariously perched between four dooms, with the actions of the players enough to tip the balance from stasis to destruction. On the other a demiplane off somewhere with support so that the players could take over a major religion / kingdom/ empire / world / the source of magic itself, would be cool.
We actually DID blow up Golarion. It's just that our adventures are generally set 10,000 years after that explosion.
Pathfinder Adventure Path #15's Armageddon Echo is the closest we've come to detailing a recursive exploding realm. The PCs can't really save it, but the Second Darkness AP as a whole DOES allow the world to get smashed pretty hard if the PCs fail.
As for a standalone 64 page book about the end of the world or something like that... maybe someday. For now, we're focusing on continuing to explore Golarion, though.
Yes but some more Planar material would be nice, and has the benefit of providing one shot sandbox locations without effecting the underlying setting. Gives the GM the option of including modular content without declaring that a place is intrinsic to your game world.
Pathfinder Adventure Path #15's Armageddon Echo is the closest we've come to detailing a recursive exploding realm. The PCs can't really save it, but the Second Darkness AP as a whole DOES allow the world to get smashed pretty hard if the PCs fail.
For what it's worth, I think there's a lot of potential in there if a brave GM steps up to the plate and says "What if they can save it?" That's outside of the scope of the Paizo guys, of course. It potentially changes the whole face of the adventure path... but there is such potential. Maybe it's because I'm so fond of Legend of Zelda: Majora's Mask that I see it that way.
... as for a world constantly in peril of cataclysm, or just as a guideline for cataclysms in general, I actually highly recomend Elder Evils, like one of WotC's very last 3.5 books. True, it largely focuses on apocalypse beasts... which, mind you, is a time honored way of destroying the world, but there's a lot of time also spent upon the armaggedon curses brought about by the entities and how they start eating away at the world.
A moon that brings undeath like most bring a gravity well; an infestation of mutating, living flesh like gray goo turned organic; a chill thing in the ice that turns the world into a lightless, barren, arctic wasteland and men into reptilian wendigo; two flavors of spheres of anihiliation, one being sapient.... There are a lot of varieties of the end of all things to pull upon here, and that before you start thinking of actual super monsters like the serpent demon prince of lies or the giant worm-swarm kaiju.
A lot of ideas in that book, if you aren't afraid of breaking a few eggs, I mean, worlds.
The realms of dreams can handle this. They are essentially demiplanes that are formed from the stuff of dreams. You could have one be a solid collective dream that is turning into a nightmare.
And if you don't like the "it's not real" feeling that the idea of dreams give, hide the fact. If it becomes real enough for the people of the demiplane to leave it as refugees, the line is blurred and gone.
Having people in Golarion start having nightmares with regularly will also be a nice foreshadowing of something big without the players necessarily realizing the nightmares are causing the catastrophe in that demiplane and instead thinking the catastrophe is causing the nightmares.
Some place to spill out refugee's onto the planes and give the PCs the ability to save the world, without actually blowing up the main game world is they fail.
I shall call it... Earth!
Not exactly on point, but you could have a lot of fun with a Demi-planes sourcebook. A chapter on how to build your own with notes on handling incursions. Then a bunch of examples as write ups. Four page format for each one?
I do like the idea of a place that gets wiped clean ever so often though.
Maybe a series of different catastrophes; each one with a way to postpone it. So, the best you can do is just keep the Damocles sword hanging overhead. This place would need a constant supply of heroes.
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Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
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Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
Something like this?
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 16, RPG Superstar 2013 Top 16
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Man, what a boring game that would be. The PCs would spend all their time trying to save the environment! ;)Some place to spill out refugee's onto the planes and give the PCs the ability to save the world, without actually blowing up the main game world is they fail.I shall call it... Earth!
"Yeah, I just rolled up a new guy. I went with a Moderate Neohippie build instead of a Hardcore Ecoterrorist, so I got Improved Recycling for free. I spent all my WBL on a Prius, 6 packs of fluorescent lightbulbs, and some organic coffee. Dude, I'm so CharOp'ed!"
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Something like this?Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
Damn, I never saw that supplement back in the day. It looks cool!
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Damn, I never saw that supplement back in the day. It looks cool!Something like this?Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
It is pretty damn cool. A friend of my took bits of it and ran a campaign for us based on the idea. It's a 2E product, but easily converted AND includes notes throughout on how to set it on your favorite world (Oerth, Faerûn, Krynn or Mystara).
As far as I know, it is also the ONLY published adventure that uses the Terrasque.
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Creative Director
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Damn, I never saw that supplement back in the day. It looks cool!Something like this?Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
It is pretty damn cool. A friend of my took bits of it and ran a campaign for us based on the idea. It's a 2E product, but easily converted AND includes notes throughout on how to set it on your favorite world (Oerth, Faerûn, Krynn or Mystara).
As far as I know, it is also the ONLY published adventure that uses the Terrasque.
The tarrasque has appeared in an awful lot of adventures, considering it's supposedly unique. It appeared in "H2: Mines of Bloodstone," "H4, Throne of Bloodstone," and in late 2nd edition Forgotten Realms module called "How the Mighty Are Fallen."
I've also tried to fit the tarrasque into an Adventure Path pretty much since Age of Worms. Each time, I come to the realization that the tarrasque, when it DOES appear in an AP, needs to appear in an AP that's ABOUT the tarrasque. He's not a guest star.
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Damn, I never saw that supplement back in the day. It looks cool!Something like this?Actually, this makes me think.
I would like a Pathfinder Chronicler supplement called Armageddon Shadow or something similar.
The idea, twelve unthinkable terrors that will destroy Golarion. I am not saying it will happen, but I rather see what will happen in the creator's minds in how those forces will undo their world.
It is pretty damn cool. A friend of my took bits of it and ran a campaign for us based on the idea. It's a 2E product, but easily converted AND includes notes throughout on how to set it on your favorite world (Oerth, Faerûn, Krynn or Mystara).
As far as I know, it is also the ONLY published adventure that uses the Terrasque.
The tarrasque has appeared in an awful lot of adventures, considering it's supposedly unique. It appeared in "H2: Mines of Bloodstone," "H4, Throne of Bloodstone," and in late 2nd edition Forgotten Realms module called "How the Mighty Are Fallen."
I've also tried to fit the tarrasque into an Adventure Path pretty much since Age of Worms. Each time, I come to the realization that the tarrasque, when it DOES appear in an AP, needs to appear in an AP that's ABOUT the tarrasque. He's not a guest star.
Dang, called out by THE MAN. I never played or rand the Bloodstone series or the FR module, so that's probably why I thought this was the only one... ;)
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Director of Game Development
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I love this thread because it reminds me of a question I recently asked James. I asked him if there was a kaiju-type critter attacking and destroying most of a city, which ones would he not mind seeing end up that way. I can't remember the answers and can't find where I wrote them down, but I an happy knowing that there *is* an answer.
The Mighty are fallen was about the ancient times in FR...i.e. AD@D, no spell caps, just before Karsus destroyed Netheril. You needed the pituitary gland of the Tarrasque for his ultimate spell, and lo, there he was, sleeping away.
It's noteworthy that the Tarrasque appeared only in FR modules outside the Apocalypse stone...
Although, there was a planet in Spelljammer where Tarrasques (yes, plural) were the apex predator...
==+Aelryinth
I'd also like to point out that if you follow Planescape, the 3rd level of Elysium is basically a prison plane, where the powers of Good have sealed in some of the mightiest iconic monsters of all time, i.e. The FIrst Hydra, the First Chimera, the First Minotaur, etc etc. Somehow managing to kill off monsters the gods found easier to leave alive would be nice...and just imagine if someone let them out...
And, from the Savage Tide AP, if you don't pay back the jailer of demons with a powerful dead demon, it destroys his otherworldly prison cells, and lets out, among others, the Mother of Monsters, a demoness who gives birth to powerful demonic abominations. Tracking down and putting her to the sword should be interesting, too, since it's damn hard to permanently put down any of the greater demons, the Abyss just coughs em back up after a time.
==Aelryinth
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I've also tried to fit the tarrasque into an Adventure Path pretty much since Age of Worms. Each time, I come to the realization that the tarrasque, when it DOES appear in an AP, needs to appear in an AP that's ABOUT the tarrasque. He's not a guest star.
So I guess we all know now what the first AP for the Epic level stuff will be if/when it comes out..............
Heck, throw in some time travel to get us to the destruction of some land in Golarion in the far past...........
And out pops the tarrasque vs mothzilla-ra in ancient Osirrion...
or something.....
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I've also tried to fit the tarrasque into an Adventure Path pretty much since Age of Worms. Each time, I come to the realization that the tarrasque, when it DOES appear in an AP, needs to appear in an AP that's ABOUT the tarrasque. He's not a guest star.So I guess we all know now what the first AP for the Epic level stuff will be if/when it comes out..............
Not necessarily.
You can have an AP with the tarrasque that's about the tarrasque. It can even have the tarrasque in it and your PCs can be low level.
What I'd like to see if an AP in which it doesn't appear until the last or last 2 issues. You build up to it. Start a party with a regular adventure the seems normal until you realize the BBEG wasn't the BBEG, he was just trying to summon/awaken the tarrasque... and succeeded! You then have adventure(s) about finding something to stop the tarrasque. You can have adventures dealing with the fall out of the tarrasque's return. Maybe orcs have fled out of the mountains and are attacking everyone between them and where they're running. How about the tarrasque is destroying the city you're in and helping people get out (level 12 pcs know they can't do anything about the tarrasque.) And then dealing with the tarrasque after finally finding the item. Basically a journey adventure path that ends with the tarrasque confrontation.
What might work better is to give the PCs some reason they want to wake up the Tarrasque, and then have to deal with the Tarrasque once it is woken.
They have to wake it up so it can fight a colossal dire ape? Wait, if they do this, I totally want to see a massive Tarrasque shaped iron golem too . . .
I'd also like to point out that if you follow Planescape, the 3rd level of Elysium is basically a prison plane
Yep, for among other things the original hydra, the Mother of Serpents. They would have killed it, but they couldn't, and not for lack of trying.
I used Elysium's 3rd layer and its primary prisoner as an element in one of my home games. Rather than springing the creature free, the 'loths managed to slide the entire layer from Elysium to the Gray Waste, ripping it free from its metaphysical moorings and dragging it halfway across the planes. And that was just within the first 1/3 of the campaign. :D
How about an apocalyptic threat from one of the other planets in Golarion's system? In a last ditch effort to save one of their last, great kingdoms, a group of mages open a gate to Golarion and seek refuge before the planet becomes unlivable. The problem is, it's an alien world with strange creatures also looking to use the gate in the process. Now the heroes must help the refugees while defending their world from the alien threat ;)
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I remember the old Die, Vecna, Die! adventure being a fairly good world ender, of course it does have the distinct disadvangtage of being old as dirt at this point, well that and it features everyones favorite old bone pile.
If it wasn't for the fact it does cheapen the experience a little it's not hard to set a world ending adventure in the horrendously distant past, I've always thought that most fantasy worlds end explosively and slowly but surely reset themselves in configurations similar yet different from the time before (they'd almost have to given your average adventurers propensity for destruction and accidental catastrophe).