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My question is can a pc who has the summoning ability summon a creature into an area with a dimensional lock spell? I would think the obvious answer would be no but upon looking at the description of the spell it does not specifically say so. It only implies at the end of the description that summoned creatures can go away when the summoning spell ends. Also, if a Teleport spell would not work why would a summoning spell work? Maybe because you are traveling through the Astral plane? Dunno? This question would obviously apply to creatures that you are summoning from your own plane.
Dimensional Lock
You create a shimmering emerald barrier that completely blocks extradimensional travel. Forms of movement barred include astral projection, blink, dimension door, ethereal jaunt, etherealness, gate, maze, plane shift, shadow walk, teleport, and similar spell-like abilities. Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible.
A dimensional lock does not interfere with the movement of creatures already in ethereal or astral form when the spell is cast, nor does it block extradimensional perception or attack forms. Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Ok this is a Quasi~logic answer based on my thoughts on the theories of Magic in D&D...
It would not prevent summoning because summoning doesn't actually bring anything over. That's why summoned creatures can't die or use some abilities -- they aren't really there. Instead the spell more or less "creates" a creature of the type you want in place, unlike a Calling spell which specifically causes they exact creature you want to come to you.
This is why summoning spells are always generic creatures -- because they are a form of platonic images instead of actual specimen. Basically a "mirror" creature of the actual creature that could be Called. This is also why they leave when they duration is up or they are beaten -- the magic holding the "image" together dissipates much like the creatures do in final fantasy X (for image only not for mechanical effect).
Calling magic (like lesser planar binding) would NOT work since it specifically brings a creature from another plane to you.
Ok this is a Quasi~logic answer based on my thoughts on the theories of Magic in D&D...
It would not prevent summoning because summoning doesn't actually bring anything over. That's why summoned creatures can't die or use some abilities -- they aren't really there. Instead the spell more or less "creates" a creature of the type you want in place, unlike a Calling spell which specifically causes they exact creature you want to come to you.
This is why summoning spells are always generic creatures -- because they are a form of platonic images instead of actual specimen. Basically a "mirror" creature of the actual creature that could be Called. This is also why they leave when they duration is up or they are beaten -- the magic holding the "image" together dissipates much like the creatures do in final fantasy X (for image only not for mechanical effect).
Calling magic (like lesser planar binding) would NOT work since it specifically brings a creature from another plane to you.
Makes sense Abraham. I was going to allow it anyways, just the wording of the rules didn't fit with what I envisioned the spell to be. It is going to play a big factor in tonight's game so I thought I would post a thread. Thanks again.
Ok this is a Quasi~logic answer based on my thoughts on the theories of Magic in D&D...
It would not prevent summoning because summoning doesn't actually bring anything over. That's why summoned creatures can't die or use some abilities -- they aren't really there. Instead the spell more or less "creates" a creature of the type you want in place, unlike a Calling spell which specifically causes they exact creature you want to come to you.
This is why summoning spells are always generic creatures -- because they are a form of platonic images instead of actual specimen. Basically a "mirror" creature of the actual creature that could be Called. This is also why they leave when they duration is up or they are beaten -- the magic holding the "image" together dissipates much like the creatures do in final fantasy X (for image only not for mechanical effect).
Calling magic (like lesser planar binding) would NOT work since it specifically brings a creature from another plane to you.
But it's not a (creation) spell either. Summoning suggests it's coming from somewhere else. Where would the mirror creature originate from if not from another dimension?
But it's not a (creation) spell either. Summoning suggests it's coming from somewhere else. Where would the mirror creature originate from if not from another dimension?
I was led to believe it is coming from the same plane that the summoner were on.
But it's not a (creation) spell either. Summoning suggests it's coming from somewhere else. Where would the mirror creature originate from if not from another dimension?Ok this is a Quasi~logic answer based on my thoughts on the theories of Magic in D&D...
It would not prevent summoning because summoning doesn't actually bring anything over. That's why summoned creatures can't die or use some abilities -- they aren't really there. Instead the spell more or less "creates" a creature of the type you want in place, unlike a Calling spell which specifically causes they exact creature you want to come to you.
This is why summoning spells are always generic creatures -- because they are a form of platonic images instead of actual specimen. Basically a "mirror" creature of the actual creature that could be Called. This is also why they leave when they duration is up or they are beaten -- the magic holding the "image" together dissipates much like the creatures do in final fantasy X (for image only not for mechanical effect).
Calling magic (like lesser planar binding) would NOT work since it specifically brings a creature from another plane to you.
Exactly that... it's not really in the prime material either... since it can't die. That's why I said a "Mirror" creature... it's not the real thing it's just a copy... the "body" is more composed of magic than anything else... that's why it disappears in an Antimagic field.
I was led to believe it is coming from the same plane that the summoner were on.
Why would outsider-type mirror creatures originate from the (assumed) prime material plane that the spellcaster is on?
I'm not sure whether dimensional lock should prevent summoning or not, but I do believe that preventing summoning is not outside the means of an 8th level spell. The summoned creatures do have to travel to the caster somehow, and they're not using normal means of movement. It's not beyond imagining that they are indeed traveling inter-dimensionally, and should be blocked by dimensional lock.
I was led to believe it is coming from the same plane that the summoner were on.Why would outsider-type mirror creatures originate from the (assumed) prime material plane that the spellcaster is on?
I'm not sure whether dimensional lock should prevent summoning or not, but I do believe that preventing summoning is not outside the means of an 8th level spell. The summoned creatures do have to travel to the caster somehow, and they're not using normal means of movement. It's not beyond imagining that they are indeed traveling inter-dimensionally, and should be blocked by dimensional lock.
I was referring to say for example a dinosaur. That would be the from the same plane. I do not recall saying anything about an outsider type.
I was referring to say for example a dinosaur. That would be the from the same plane. I do not recall saying anything about an outsider type.
But you're summoning a Celestial or Fiendish type of dinosaur (or dire lion, or whatever) and these do originate from other planes! I'd view it as summoning not the creature itself, but a mirror-copy of its body/mind, but without its soul. Therefore no true death....
At first I was going to suggest that summoning would work since the spells listed in the dimensional lock spell involve travel to another plane/dimension as part of their effect per their spell descriptions. However the line "Once dimensional lock is in place, extradimensional travel into or out of the area is not possible" makes me wonder if the spell list is not just a copy-paste from dimensional anchor that should have included a few more spells. For dimensional anchor, summon monster/nature's ally would be a non-issue since the anchor affects only one target instead of an area.
Now I do think that summon spells could not summon a creature (or object) into the area affected by a dimensional lock. I'm guessing that a caster could be in the area of dimensional lock and still summon a creature into an area outside of the lock though.
I was referring to say for example a dinosaur. That would be the from the same plane. I do not recall saying anything about an outsider type.But you're summoning a Celestial or Fiendish type of dinosaur (or dire lion, or whatever) and these do originate from other planes! I'd view it as summoning not the creature itself, but a mirror-copy of its body/mind, but without its soul. Therefore no true death....
Then why would the body disappear when the monster is defeated? My view is the whole think is just a platonic constant that the magic makes on the spot... that then disappears when the spell is over. Granted it's not a (creation) subschool... but it isn't a teleportation subschool either.
I was referring to say for example a dinosaur. That would be the from the same plane. I do not recall saying anything about an outsider type.But you're summoning a Celestial or Fiendish type of dinosaur (or dire lion, or whatever) and these do originate from other planes! I'd view it as summoning not the creature itself, but a mirror-copy of its body/mind, but without its soul. Therefore no true death....
Right. But, if for example I summon an eagle, or a horse, something that originates from the current plane that I am on? I could see anything of the fiendish variety that you mentioned and not being able to summon those. The thing that throws me off is the last sentence of the dimensional lock spell: Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Now this leads me to believe that you cannot summon anything into it such a space but obviously summoned creatures that may have been summoned before the lock was cast can leave? Hell, I really do not know, hence why I started the post.
Then why would the body disappear when the monster is defeated? My view is the whole think is just a platonic constant that the magic makes on the spot... that then disappears when the spell is over. Granted it's not a (creation) subschool... but it isn't a teleportation subschool either.
You have summoned the body/mind mirror-aspect of an extraplanar creature. The magic that binds it together dissipates upon dispelling/expired duration/cessation of life of this summoned aspect. If that helps.
Right. But, if for example I summon an eagle, or a horse, something that originates from the current plane that I am on? I could see anything of the fiendish variety that you mentioned and not being able to summon those. The thing that throws me off is the last sentence of the dimensional lock spell: Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Now this leads me to believe that you cannot summon anything into it such a space but obviously summoned creatures that may have been summoned before the lock was cast can leave? Hell, I really do not know, hence why I started the post.
Read the Summon Monster spells again. The "eagle, or a horse, something that originates from the current plane", all of them acquire the celestial or fiendish template by virtue of the Summon Monster spell (this is a good thing, it makes them better). All creatures with this template then originate from another plane.
As far as summoned monsters leaving the dimensional lock area, that's a game function so as not to bypass the limited duration of those spells. And it's magic.
Now I do think that summon spells could not summon a creature (or object) into the area affected by a dimensional lock. I'm guessing that a caster could be in the area of dimensional lock and still summon a creature into an area outside of the lock though.
Yeah, I agree. And looking at the area of effect of a dimensional lock spell, it seems pretty easy to Summon a monster to appear beyond this spell's area of effect and then have them move into the area of effect. Summoning wins again!
Then why would the body disappear when the monster is defeated? My view is the whole think is just a platonic constant that the magic makes on the spot... that then disappears when the spell is over. Granted it's not a (creation) subschool... but it isn't a teleportation subschool either.You have summoned the body/mind mirror-aspect of an extraplanar creature. The magic that binds it together dissipates upon dispelling/expired duration/cessation of life of this summoned aspect. If that helps.
It kind of does and it kind of gets to my point. Why reach across the planes to pull a psuedo body through instead of just shaping one here?
Right. But, if for example I summon an eagle, or a horse, something that originates from the current plane that I am on? I could see anything of the fiendish variety that you mentioned and not being able to summon those. The thing that throws me off is the last sentence of the dimensional lock spell: Also, the spell does not prevent summoned creatures from disappearing at the end of a summoning spell.
Now this leads me to believe that you cannot summon anything into it such a space but obviously summoned creatures that may have been summoned before the lock was cast can leave? Hell, I really do not know, hence why I started the post.Read the Summon Monster spells again. The "eagle, or a horse, something that originates from the current plane", all of them acquire the celestial or fiendish template by virtue of the Summon Monster spell (this is a good thing, it makes them better). All creatures with this template then originate from another plane.
As far as summoned monsters leaving the dimensional lock area, that's a game function so as not to bypass the limited duration of those spells. And it's magic.
No crap! Damn, my bad. I totally missed that, even though it has the big asterisk right next to it. Sorry about that.
Not to necro a thread, but this really doesn't seem very well answered. I think it's clear that (calling) spells are out, since they explicitly bring a creature from another plane. I would say that (summoning) spells are as well (first line of summon monster says: This spell summons an extraplanar creature...).
Has there been any official word on this?
Probably because any answer given is simply fluff -- the truth of the matter (mechanically speaking) is:
That's what the spell says it does so that's what it does.
Except that calling spells are not blocked explicitly either (except for possibly gate, which can be used as plane shift)