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The spell Breath of Life brings a question:
It claims to be able to revive the newly dead, but the mechanic says: "If the healed creature’s hit point total is at a negative amount less than its Constitution score, it comes back to life and stabilizes at its new hit point total. If the creature’s hit point total is at a negative amount equal to or greater than its Constitution score, the creature remains dead." But the definition of dead IS having a negative amount equal to or greater than you CON score. So, in order for this spell to bring someone back to life, he can't be dead yet.
So, does this spell truly raise the dead, making the above mechanic wrong, or does it only act as a cure spell, making the claim of a difference wrong?
Or something else?
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The spell Breath of Life brings a question:
It claims to be able to revive the newly dead, but the mechanic says: "If the healed creature’s hit point total is at a negative amount less than its Constitution score, it comes back to life and stabilizes at its new hit point total. If the creature’s hit point total is at a negative amount equal to or greater than its Constitution score, the creature remains dead." But the definition of dead IS having a negative amount equal to or greater than you CON score. So, in order for this spell to bring someone back to life, he can't be dead yet.
So, does this spell truly raise the dead, making the above mechanic wrong, or does it only act as a cure spell, making the claim of a difference wrong?
Or something else?
After you apply the healing to the creature that died within one round, if it's HP total is less than it's - CON score it is still dead (the healing wasn't enough). If it is more than it's - CON score after the healing than it is alive.
Basically if the healing is enough to get you to -CON then you are alive, if not, SOL, the spell wasn't enough.
Creative Director
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Here's an example of how the spell works in play.
We have, as exhibit A, the barbarian Ostog the Unslain, who has a Constitution of 18 and thus dies when his hit point total reaches –18.
Ostog is savaged by a dragon and dies when the monster's attacks reduce him to –80 hit points. When this happens, there's basically a 1 round window to save him with breath of life.
Ostog's cleric friend Vorn runs up to his mangled body and casts breath of life on it. He rolls his dice and cures a total of 35 points of damage. This brings Ostog's hit point total up to –45... still beyond his limit of –18. Ostog at this point remains dead. If there are no more breath of life spells cast on him by the time Ostog's turn comes up next in Initiative, he stays dead, and is now beyond the reach of breath of life to bring back to life. Break out the raise dead spells.
NOW! Let's say that Ostog has ANOTHER friend in the group; a bard named Styrian who happens to have a good Use Magic Device check and a scroll of breath of life. Before Ostog's next turn comes up in initiative, but after Vorn casts his breath of life spell, Styrian steps in with his scroll and makes all the skill checks he needs to in order to cast the spell. This second breath of life spell ALSO cures 35 points of damage, bringing Ostog up to –10 hit points. Ostog is now above -18 hit points, and is thus brought back to life (although is still out of it since he's at -10 hit points); at this point other magical healing of any sort can bring him back to positive hit points and he can get back in the fight.
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Creative Director
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Touche! Although, if I read it as a maximum of +25 dmg healed total, and the OP read the other part the way he did, maybe the spell description isn't quite as clear as it might be and could stand a little overhaul at some point :)
Well, since the spell's written with the same language there as all of the cure spells, I'm not so sure how much more clearly that can be imparted...
Perhaps if Jason had stuck with my original name for this spell, "cure deadly wounds," that relationship would have been more obvious.
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Creative Director
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I think that name would have helped to some degree.
And having never played a healer I have to admit I've not looked very closely at the exact limits of each healing spell before.
And finally, my last post was a fail attempt at having the final word, and I was grasping at something to come back at you with :)
Never try to win the final word game with someone who has the ability to lock threads! :P
I think Breath of Life works perfectly as the name.
It draws attention to it's crucial difference vs. other Cure spells: being able to bring back the dead (if you don't procrastinate). The reference to the maximum is not "(25)", but "(25)" after the crucial "per level" was mentioned.
Though I think Senor Buhlmahn's secret agenda here was making BoL not spontaneously castable like Cure/Inflict spells. (I wouldn't really know how to reverse BoL into an Inflict version, either... A failed stabilization check = instant death?)
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Creative Director
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I think Breath of Life works perfectly as the name.
It draws attention to it's crucial difference vs. other Cure spells: being able to bring back the dead (if you don't procrastinate). The reference to the maximum is not "(25)", but "(25)" after the crucial "per level" was mentioned.Though I think Senor Buhlmahn's secret agenda here was making BoL not spontaneously castable like Cure/Inflict spells. (I wouldn't really know how to reverse BoL into an Inflict version, either... A failed stabilization check = instant death?)
Well... my not-so-secret agenda WAS to make it a spell that clerics could cast on the fly. It's an important spell and concept, and one that helps to keep unplanned deaths from ruining a campaign. Letting clerics cast it on the fly as cure deadly wounds means they don't have to keep one prepared at all times (it's sort of a spell tax otherwise), and helps to let them save their allies from sudden death. It's how I've used the spell in my last 2 or 3 homebrew games, and it's worked really well.
As for the inflict version, it's just a 5d6+level inflict spell. Nothing special there needed.
Well... my not-so-secret agenda WAS to make it a spell that clerics could cast on the fly. It's an important spell and concept, and one that helps to keep unplanned deaths from ruining a campaign. Letting clerics cast it on the fly as cure deadly wounds means they don't have to keep one prepared at all times (it's sort of a spell tax otherwise), and helps to let them save their allies from sudden death. It's how I've used the spell in my last 2 or 3 homebrew games, and it's worked really well.
I won't tell if you secretly hack into the PRD and change it to work that way... :-)
It *does* seem like a 'making the game more fun to play/ shouldn't-be-spell tax" type of spell.
Imagine the cautious cleric who spends all their 5th level slots just for this spell...
I personally house-ruled the name to 'Cure Mortal Wounds' back in the Beta at the behest of my Cleric player.
He promptly used it to resurrect an NPC from a 3.5 module who was supposed to remain dead. Caught a lot of flak for that when I mentioned it later, though I thought I did a good job of improving it enough he didn't totally waste the spell slot.
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Creative Director
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I personally house-ruled the name to 'Cure Mortal Wounds' back in the Beta at the behest of my Cleric player.
He promptly used it to resurrect an NPC from a 3.5 module who was supposed to remain dead. Caught a lot of flak for that when I mentioned it later, though I thought I did a good job of improving it enough he didn't totally waste the spell slot.
That's not the spell's fault. That's the 3.5 module's fault for neglecting to take into account that a 9th level cleric can raise the dead.
Here's an example of how the spell works in play.
We have, as exhibit A, the barbarian Ostog the Unslain, who has a Constitution of 18 and thus dies when his hit point total reaches –18.
Ostog is savaged by a dragon and dies when the monster's attacks reduce him to –80 hit points. When this happens, there's basically a 1 round window to save him with breath of life.
You know if Erik reads this, he's probably going to have flash backs of aliens and glass guns . . . I guess that name really is a challenge issued to the GM . . . ;)
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Owner - D20 Hobbies
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"This spell cures 5d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +25)."
If anyone takes the 25 max to apply to the spell as a whole, what do they do with Cure Light in 3.0 up to 3.p? At 5th level a CLW would heal 5 points every time and never less/never more by this funny reading.
The 25 max only applies to the caster level part.
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Creative Director
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Sorry but does this spell works on an disitegrated charater?
thank you.
Nope. Breath of life requires a body to be able to "breathe in that life."
Think of it this way. Breath of life is the same level as raise dead, which requires a body to be able to work. Since these spells are similar level and have similar effects, they should have similar limitations with the exception of what's specifically spelled out in the text.
That's not the spell's fault. That's the 3.5 module's fault for neglecting to take into account that a 9th level cleric can raise the dead.I personally house-ruled the name to 'Cure Mortal Wounds' back in the Beta at the behest of my Cleric player.
He promptly used it to resurrect an NPC from a 3.5 module who was supposed to remain dead. Caught a lot of flak for that when I mentioned it later, though I thought I did a good job of improving it enough he didn't totally waste the spell slot.
Only if they want to come back. I imagine many are content with their afterlife, and don't have a heroic destiny to return to like a PC does.
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Creative Director
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Only if they want to come back. I imagine many are content with their afterlife, and don't have a heroic destiny to return to like a PC does.That's not the spell's fault. That's the 3.5 module's fault for neglecting to take into account that a 9th level cleric can raise the dead.I personally house-ruled the name to 'Cure Mortal Wounds' back in the Beta at the behest of my Cleric player.
He promptly used it to resurrect an NPC from a 3.5 module who was supposed to remain dead. Caught a lot of flak for that when I mentioned it later, though I thought I did a good job of improving it enough he didn't totally waste the spell slot.
In Pathfinder, there's another option. You as the GM get to play the role of Pharasma, the goddess of death. She's the one who decides who can or can't come back to life via spells like this, so you technically have TWO ways to keep an NPC who needs to stay dead for story reasons from being able to be brought back to life..
So if you make Breath of Life a ranged touch attack with Reach Spell, do you have to roll to hit?
Oh the irony, a thread about Breath of Life from over 6 years ago getting necro'ed.
Yeah, but it was way past the 6-second time limit of the spell.
Actually, if I counted correctly, it was 197,794,014 seconds too late (rounding to the nearest minute due to the post time stamps not being more precise than that).
Is this a still a viable thread? I was trying to decipher the original wording supposed to have been "cure deadly wounds" and the "spell written in the same language of other cure spells" for it to qualify for spontaneous casting and the Healing Bomb Alchemist Discovery