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This is something that happened at a Game I was running at GenCon, The group Grappled an evil Cleric to try to stop her from Channeling Negative Energy and killing the group, On a quick look up I did not see anything that would stop an Evil Cleric from Channeling Negative energy while Grappled and doing Dmg to the group, so she Channeled Negative energy while grappled.
Did I do this right? I am still feeling guilty from this TPK :-(, and I want to make sure I did this right.
Channel Energy like the old turn undead are Supernatual and while magical are not spell-like in any way. You can see this difference in how they don't provoke an AoO, ignore all SR, and can not even be affected by dispel magic. Everything I read under the grapple rules and Grappled condition mention spells which would include even spell-like abilities, but nothing about supernatural abilities.
As their is no special mention to Su abilities I would agree with your decision. Unless someone sees a special section on grapple and channel energy.
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Channel Energy like the old turn undead are Supernatual and while magical are not spell-like in any way. You can see this difference in how they don't provoke an AoO, ignore all SR, and can not even be affected by dispel magic. Everything I read under the grapple rules and Grappled condition mention spells which would include even spell-like abilities, but nothing about supernatural abilities.
As their is no special mention to Su abilities I would agree with your decision. Unless someone sees a special section on grapple and channel energy.
That is the exact reasoning I used when I called that.
I probably would have given the PC a Knowledge check (Religion), with a reasonable DC (10? 15? it's a common ability for Clerics but it's distinction re: disruption wouldn't necessarily be common knoweldge) to see if they would know that Channel Energy can't be disrupted like normal Spellcasting/SLAs.
That's if the PC was clearly anticipating another Channel Energy and aiming to hassle another Channel attempt, not just if they were aiming to prevent Spellcasting in general and the Evil Cleric THEN chose to Channel Energy.
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I probably would have given the PC a Knowledge check (Religion), with a reasonable DC (10? 15? it's a common ability for Clerics but it's distinction re: disruption wouldn't necessarily be common knoweldge) to see if they would know that Channel Energy can't be disrupted like normal Spellcasting/SLAs.
That's if the PC was clearly anticipating another Channel Energy and aiming to hassle another Channel attempt, not just if they were aiming to prevent Spellcasting in general and the Evil Cleric THEN chose to Channel Energy.
They were trying to stop the channel energy, that is what was killing them. None of them had Knowledge Religion, and their cleric was already down at this point, at the time I think only the Fighter was up.
However, the cleric "must be able to present his holy symbol", which does kind of infer a need to handle the symbol in question.
So it could be ruled that the cleric may need to already have his holy symbol in hand to make use of channel energy while in a grapple.
Actually, even if the PC couldn't pass an Untrained Know:Knowledge about Channeling not being susceptible to disruption, they would know either from very common knowledge (Untrained DC5) or WATCHING THE CLERIC Channel their faces off the previous round, that the Holy Symbol was crucial to the Channeling. So with the same CMB roll that succeeded at Grappling the Cleric, they could have Disarmed him of the Holy Symbol - That might provoke an AoO without Imp. Disarm, but the bonus for Disarming a non-Weapon may counter the AoO damage penalty. Just from observation, the character should know that Disarming the Holy Symbol would be the 100% effective way to achieve what they were aiming for (preventing another Channel).
If you described the Channel Energy very vividly, including the details on the Holy Symbol enough to make clear it was crucial, that would ideally be enough, but given we all can't describe everything like that all the time, if you realized it was crucial later, I would inform the player of that fact. Giving an Untrained Knowledge check to see if their CHARACTER would know that a certain course of action (Grappling to force Concentration Check) has no sense, much less chance of success, seem a fair thing also. Of course, a good part of this is all the little details of the rules being new.
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However, the cleric "must be able to present his holy symbol", which does kind of infer a need to handle the symbol in question.
So it could be ruled that the cleric may need to already have his holy symbol in hand to make use of channel energy while in a grapple.
the need to present a holy symbol I do not believe means he necesarily has to handle it. It could be worked into armor, or a shield, the hilt of a weapon. As far as I know it would just have to be visible. That does not mean it will be easy to take it away from him. YMMV
the need to present a holy symbol I do not believe means he necesarily has to handle it. It could be worked into armor, or a shield, the hilt of a weapon. As far as I know it would just have to be visible. That does not mean it will be easy to take it away from him. YMMV
I would argue though the need for the symbol to be within view as a show of faith, hence the need to be handled (i.e. presented)
Of course, as you say YMMV
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If You Are Grappled: Instead of trying to break or reverse the grapple, yo can take any action that requires only one hand to perform, such as cast a spell or make an attack with a light or one-handed weapon against any creature within your reach, including the creature that is grappling you.
I had a similar situation in which a Cleric PC was being grappled by a constrictor snake attempted to channel positive energy. I saw nothing in the description above that suggested she couldn't.
yes the channel energy does state that you need to be able to Present the holy symbol. so I would take it that the cleric must be able to show the holy symbol with pride to those who he is channeling for or against. since you are able to cast spells while grappled i say you can channel energy. you simply raise you arm at the elbow or wrist and call out your gods name. also dragon moon I was said fighter, you made the right call so don't sweet it you ran a good game hope to see you next year.
I would argue though the need for the symbol to be within view as a show of faith, hence the need to be handled (i.e. presented)
Of course, as you say YMMV
Visibility has nothing to do with whether the holy symbol needs to be handled. As mentioned in the post you quote, it could be part of a piece of gear (knights of the crusade very commonly had crosses emblazoned on their shields and helmets, for example) and thus visible without needing to be handled.