I can picture a Fighter swinging his Greatsword, trying to cleave through multiply foes...
I can picture a Fighter using a huge Backswing to make an Overhand Chop against his foe to deal extra damage...
But seriously, can you do either of those things with a Piercing weapon?
Can you...
Cleave with a Ranseur? [piercing]
Cleave with a Club? [bludgeoning]
I can see a overhand chop/backswing working with a heavy flail [bludgeoning], but not with a Scythe [slashing]!
Do we just apply the Feats and ignore these obvious gremlins?
Power-stab!! I skewer two enemies on one blade!
Running through one guy and then stabbing the one behind him with the same thrust? sure I can see that (remembering that a person doesn't actually fill a full 5x5 square so it is possible that the two people adjacent to each other are only inches apart one slightly (10 inches maybe) infront of the other). Raising your spear up (point down) waaay over your head then driving it point first as hard as you can through someone's skull? Heck that's in a movie. Heck most of those blades you are speaking of are kind of sharp on the side, maybe you stabbed in but slashed out the side (most the damage being the piercing you just gave them, ripping it open afterwards being secondary).
A scythe is especially easy since it is swung from the side on cleave you just plow through. On the over head chop again you just come from a higher angle.
*****
Please Remember a feat name (especially in the overhand chop and backswing cases) doesn't necessarily tell us how it looks when used every time it is activated. After all why would hitting someone with a backswing, after the initial blow only deal double damage on the first swing instead of giving another swing at the opponent?
I kind of agree with you on the idea that some feats seem more suited to one type of weapon over others. I would rather not see a different set of feats for each type of weapon out there though, possibly with different effects to remember and be able to adjudicate...
I can imagine:
slash -
Cleave, Great Cleave
Bludgeon -
Rebounding hit - you are skilled at using the impact of one blow to deliver a blow to an adjacent target...
Pierce -
Penetrating stab - You deliver such powerful hits with your piercing weapon you can punch through a target into a target behind him. Alternately you can also use your penetrating shot to pierce through a shield, ignoring the defenders shield bonus to AC.
errr.. no thanks, I'll just deal with one set.
Please Remember a feat name (especially in the overhand chop and backswing cases) doesn't necessarily tell us how it looks when used every time it is activated. After all why would hitting someone with a backswing, after the initial blow only deal double damage on the first swing instead of giving another swing at the opponent?
It's easy enough to restyle "Overhand Chop" as "Overhand Stab" or "Overhand Crush". I'm not sure what's a good piercing version of "Backswing", though.
Please Remember a feat name (especially in the overhand chop and backswing cases) doesn't necessarily tell us how it looks when used every time it is activated. After all why would hitting someone with a backswing, after the initial blow only deal double damage on the first swing instead of giving another swing at the opponent?It's easy enough to restyle "Overhand Chop" as "Overhand Stab" or "Overhand Crush". I'm not sure what's a good piercing version of "Backswing", though.
Which is why it would be "Pierce through" or "Twist in the wound" (which really opens things up nicely) for example.
Using a Scythe is a bad example, as you could just cleave through many people in one swipe.
Since I can use a piercing weapon to slay one opponent and then, with cleave, kill his companion with whom he was flanking me, the visuals just aren't going to make sense.
That's the grand balance about these rules: They are simplified guidelines to help with conflict resolution. They are, and have always been touted so, not there for reality's sake, but for game sake and ease of use. That's the reason.
Plus, I can justify ANYTHING and have it seem plausible. Try it out.
Since I can use a piercing weapon to slay one opponent and then, with cleave, kill his companion with whom he was flanking me, the visuals just aren't going to make sense.
What's lacking is imagination.
Since I can use a piercing weapon to slay one opponent and then, with cleave, kill his companion with whom he was flanking me, the visuals just aren't going to make sense.
Actually you can't! Cleave requires the second target to be adjacent to the first target, not adjacent to you! Great Cleave requires the same condition.
I liked the 'damage type' specific feats in the 3.5 PHB 2, granted they were higher end feats.
I like the flavor of the battle axe/long sword/warhammer (for example) being different than just either 19-20 x2 or 20 x3 damage. The skipping of the DR for Zombies/Skeletons and the like peters to just about nothing when monsters start getting /magic DR.
It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it adds flavour to have a warhammer work mechanically different from a battleaxe. But on the other hand, you don't want to punish people who took the "wrong" weapon by accident (e.g. if I had picked Weapon Focus: Scythe at level 1, I could be using the awesome Scythe Eviscerator feat at level 20 but instead I'm stuck with Irritating Rapier Poke instead).
Using a Scythe is a bad example, as you could just cleave through many people in one swipe.
No, actually, it's a very good example. Especially for the stereotypical Grim Reaper/Farmer scythes, which is what both 3.5 and PF use, as opposed to war scythes (which look completely different). Stereotypical scythes are going to be absolutely useless at cleaving through multiple targets. Go watch a youtube video of scythes in action.
Stereotypical scythes are going to be absolutely useless at cleaving through multiple targets. Go watch a youtube video of scythes in action.
So are there any Youtube videos of real-life swords and axes cleaving through multiple people? 'Cause that'd be cool. :-)
It's a double-edged sword. On the one hand, it adds flavour to have a warhammer work mechanically different from a battleaxe. But on the other hand, you don't want to punish people who took the "wrong" weapon by accident (e.g. if I had picked Weapon Focus: Scythe at level 1, I could be using the awesome Scythe Eviscerator feat at level 20 but instead I'm stuck with Irritating Rapier Poke instead).They were slashing/bludgeoning/piercing specific not weapon specific. Sorry, I see how that would be confusing.
I guess it would be a better comparison to compare Battle Axe and War hammer both are 1D8 X3. Battle Axe is Slashing and War hammer bludgeoning thus mechanically identical. 3.5 PHB2 had different paths each could take based on this.
No, I understand what feats you're talking about. My point still stands: sometimes it turns out that the Bludgeoning feat is awesome (for instance), but you've been focusing on a Piercing weapon all along so you're stuck either picking a new weapon to specialize in or settling for a feat you don't like as much.
Stereotypical scythes are going to be absolutely useless at cleaving through multiple targets. Go watch a youtube video of scythes in action.So are there any Youtube videos of real-life swords and axes cleaving through multiple people? 'Cause that'd be cool. :-)
People? Not that I'm aware of. Hams complete with bones? Yes.