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A few Question about the Recorporeal Incarnation Spell.
From Pathfinder 16 - What happens to my body? “Nothing permanent. Your flesh and features are overborne by those of a cadaver. You are still you, but rather than animating your flesh, your bones, muscles, tissues, and mind now support a different, though recently deceased, form.”
1) Do the Half-Orc's tusks still show? Does the Dwarf's beard show?
2) Are there now short Drow, or do the Dwarf, Gnome and Halfling grow to the height of the Drow?
3) Do the PCs still look like themselves, or are the faces that of the Drow they are taking on?
4) Do any wounds the Drow have show on the PC (like an sword thru the heart, a skull bashed in)?
5) If a PC's mind supports that of the Drow cadaver, do they have access to that Drow's memory?
6) Does the Drow mind have any effect in how a PC will react in situation.
7) How dangerous is it for an Elf to do this? Are they more at risk of becoming a Drow for real?
8) Does a PC have to stay the same gender? (If the leader of the party is male, it would look suspicious if a male Drow was giving orders to a female during a battle.) (How about bodily functions?)
I don't know how definitive this is, but the artwork in the adventure seems to indicate that the character looks like the drow in question, i.e. Lini seemed to be a full sized drow, not a short one. Not sure about gender changes or the like, however.
Creative Director
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1) Do the Half-Orc's tusks still show? Does the Dwarf's beard show?
Nope; those body parts are absorbed into and hidden by the disguise, which functions a litlte like a creepy version of polymorph or shapechanging in which actual body parts mold and change and become new parts (or go missing altogether).
2) Are there now short Drow, or do the Dwarf, Gnome and Halfling grow to the height of the Drow?
As long as you can be affected by the spell, you assume the form of the new body. That means short PCs are now Medium drow (for example, the drow pictured with the sickle is actually Lini the gnome).
3) Do the PCs still look like themselves, or are the faces that of the Drow they are taking on?
The PCs look like the drow whose forms they adopt. Technically, the PCs might actually run into a drow in the city that recognizes them, but that's unlikely since the drow they're disguised as were low-ranking Azrinae soldiers and most of the Azrinae drow who would recognize them are either dead, sequestered away, or at the Land of Black Blood.
4) Do any wounds the Drow have show on the PC (like an sword thru the heart, a skull bashed in)?
Nope; the wounds the dead drow suffered are healed. Any wounds the PCs had when they underwent the process do show up though.
5) If a PC's mind supports that of the Drow cadaver, do they have access to that Drow's memory?
The disguise is purely physical. The drow's memory is not part of the deal, so the PCs have to rely completely on their own skills and knowledge.
6) Does the Drow mind have any effect in how a PC will react in situation.
None at all.
7) How dangerous is it for an Elf to do this? Are they more at risk of becoming a Drow for real?
8) Does a PC have to stay the same gender? (If the leader of the party is male, it would look suspicious if a male Drow was giving orders to a female during a battle.) (How about bodily functions?)
The PC doesn't need to stay the same gender at all, but the adventure assumes they do.
I recall reading that one of you guys at the office there, I foget who and where I read it, said this was the creepiest spell they had ever seen written. And I can't blame them lol. I can't wait to get my friends on the end of this baby.
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8) Does a PC have to stay the same gender? (If the leader of the party is male, it would look suspicious if a male Drow was giving orders to a female during a battle.) (How about bodily functions?)The PC doesn't need to stay the same gender at all, but the adventure assumes they do.
That raises a really good point. Do the elves know enough about drow society to understand its matriarchal nature? Because it would probably be worthwhile to have an entirely female party as their spies if they can arrange it - and recorporeal incarnation should allow them to arrange it.
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Creative Director
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That raises a really good point. Do the elves know enough about drow society to understand its matriarchal nature? Because it would probably be worthwhile to have an entirely female party as their spies if they can arrange it - and recorporeal incarnation should allow them to arrange it.8) Does a PC have to stay the same gender? (If the leader of the party is male, it would look suspicious if a male Drow was giving orders to a female during a battle.) (How about bodily functions?)The PC doesn't need to stay the same gender at all, but the adventure assumes they do.
The elves probably do know about it, and so would the PCs after doing 3 adventures with drow in them. But keep in mind the roles the PCs will need to play; as servants, males are actually more logical choices... Yet there's also things for female drow to do. A mix of genders is probably the best bet.
I recall reading that one of you guys at the office there, I foget who and where I read it, said this was the creepiest spell they had ever seen written. And I can't blame them lol. I can't wait to get my friends on the end of this baby.
He must never have read Consume Likeness for the Call of Cthulhu game.
He must never have read Consume Likeness for the Call of Cthulhu game.
Honestly, the idea for the spell came from two sources: a meeting where James and I were trying to figure out how PCs were going to get around in Zirnakaynin without getting outed by the simplest detect magic spell even when magic jar wouldn't really work. And a certain Disney movie about witches. ^_~
And a certain Disney movie about witches. ^_~
Racked my brain and I'm drawing a blank. What movie Wes?
Dude, I'm totally going to get lambasted for this now. The naming convention was just too cool (and too ingrained in my inner 9 year old's brain) not to ape. And the battle at the end (also on youtube) was terrifying and AWESOME.
Dude, I'm totally going to get lambasted for this now. The naming convention was just too cool (and too ingrained in my inner 9 year old's brain) not to ape. And the battle at the end (also on youtube) was terrifying and AWESOME.
LOL awesome vid Wes. I see why I drew a blank. I've never seen that fully.
I recall reading that one of you guys at the office there, I foget who and where I read it, said this was the creepiest spell they had ever seen written. And I can't blame them lol. I can't wait to get my friends on the end of this baby.He must never have read Consume Likeness for the Call of Cthulhu game.
There's a similar spell in the Book of Vile Darkness. It's corrupt magic, along with a few other cannibalism-related spells...
But yes, Recorporeal Incarnation sounds like a bit of nasty arcana that I want to learn more about.
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Creative Director
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I recall reading that one of you guys at the office there, I foget who and where I read it, said this was the creepiest spell they had ever seen written. And I can't blame them lol. I can't wait to get my friends on the end of this baby.He must never have read Consume Likeness for the Call of Cthulhu game.There's a similar spell in the Book of Vile Darkness. It's corrupt magic, along with a few other cannibalism-related spells...
But yes, Recorporeal Incarnation sounds like a bit of nasty arcana that I want to learn more about.
That spell's not just similar... it's the same spell.
When WotC did the d20 Call of Cthulhu book, they converted a LOT of Chaosium's spells and monsters to d20 stats, and while teh D20 CoC book wasn't open content, it WAS owned by WotC and so they could use material from that book in any other product they wanted. The Worm that Walks template's a great example of Chaosium material that's been fully adopted into the game... it exists in 4th edition as the Larva Mage IIRC... although Worm that Walks is about a 100 times cooler name than Larva Mage...
Anyway... yeah. Same spell, consume likeness.
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So we have a small inconvenience in that now our size small kobold is a size medium drow and now none of his gear fits him anymore... ANyone else have a reasonable solution?Well shouldn't there be a bunch of dead drow with equipment laying about?
L4-7 okay drow gear, isn't the same as L8-9 heroic bard gear.
One thing to consider very carefully when introducing this spell: what else will it work on? The adventure assumes the PCs will become drow, but there is nothing in the spell as written to force that outcome. Drow are good for Zirnakaynin, but later on, what else might they want to become?
Two of my group's PCs had very strong objections to becoming drow (the third was a drow to begin with). They ended up doing Zirnakaynin as fiendish satyrs. This turned out to be a very strong form. GMs should think twice about allowing recorporeal incarnation into arbitrary corpses, as it has all the usual problems of polymorph-type spells, plus being hard to detect or dispel, and giving a near-perfect disguise.
Honestly, I would just rule that the spell adjusts the size of any equipment worn at the time of casting.
That's how I ruled it. I didn't have any small characters, but I did have a male Dwarf with full plate going to a female drow. To my mind, that's what DM hand-waving is all about. *OR* you could have "comparable" elf-shaped gear brought in from Kyonin, with collateral of the PCs gear.
As for abuse of the spell... well, after emphasizing the extreme pain and disgusting nature of it, my PCs were glad to never go near it again. Not to mention that even going into Book 6 last weekend, none of them can cast 7th level Sor/Wiz spells yet.
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Worst. Spell. Ever. This was the beginning of the end for the group. Cool concept, but horrible execution. My players felt railroaded through out the module.
Its funny my players we're trying to figure out a way to infiltrate the drow city when along comes the creepy necromancer with his plans and they were like "yeah that would work."
It was one of our more interesting RP gaming sessions.
What's really funny is that the group as a whole was morally ambigious. But when it came to that spell, one player actually started packing up. Only one PC was down with it, but that was a given because he always plays characters that follow the god of the dead. The player that eventually quit the game missed that and when he found out about it, he was...it was a four cigarette break for him. That was the point in which he and another player lost all interest in the game.
I have to wonder why your players didn't come up with alternate solutions if they didn't like it. It's only a railroad if you don't stay flexible as the GM. How about instead of becoming drow they transport through invisible and hide in the caves? Lurk around, sneak into houses, play it commando behind enemy lines style?
I haven't run this adventure path, but I used this spell and adventure in particular to help flesh out the "Vault of the Drow" part of Dead Gods. My party loved it but they tend to be on the chaotic side of the alignment chart. Our Drow Feast was a very fun encounter, with lots of good RP.
In my mind it's up to the GM to bend the module to suit the players. When something doesn't work, I let the players decide how to change things up. Be flexible.
I mean, really, how is this spell that much more terrible than a polymorph spell? What is it they found objectionable? The idea of masquerading of drow or the implementation? Would an amulet of disguise + conceal aura worked instead?
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What's really funny is that the group as a whole was morally ambigious. But when it came to that spell, one player actually started packing up. Only one PC was down with it, but that was a given because he always plays characters that follow the god of the dead. The player that eventually quit the game missed that and when he found out about it, he was...it was a four cigarette break for him. That was the point in which he and another player lost all interest in the game.I have to wonder why your players didn't come up with alternate solutions if they didn't like it. It's only a railroad if you don't stay flexible as the GM. How about instead of becoming drow they transport through invisible and hide in the caves? Lurk around, sneak into houses, play it commando behind enemy lines style?
I haven't run this adventure path, but I used this spell and adventure in particular to help flesh out the "Vault of the Drow" part of Dead Gods. My party loved it but they tend to be on the chaotic side of the alignment chart. Our Drow Feast was a very fun encounter, with lots of good RP.
In my mind it's up to the GM to bend the module to suit the players. When something doesn't work, I let the players decide how to change things up. Be flexible.
I mean, really, how is this spell that much more terrible than a polymorph spell? What is it they found objectionable? The idea of masquerading of drow or the implementation? Would an amulet of disguise + conceal aura worked instead?
I gotta echo this sentiment. Its just a spell, and while its horribly gross at times (namely, when it wears off) the idea that this is a chance to get behind enemy lines and figure what the frack is going on, should outweigh their moral ambiguities. My party actually liked the idea of the spell and were gun ho about doing it.
Perhaps this is more to player tastes. I think a lot of your complaints about railroading are about player tastes. The only railroad is in getting the party to agree to the first part. Once they hit the city its a gigantic sandbox for them to play in. As it is I'm kinda taking out the first actual fight of the book and replacing it with a raid on the flesh pits because the party found out some captured elves were there.
I mean how much did you stick to the story and how much did you let them go out? I ruled that after their work was done they could go out and wander the city, so long as they were back in time to get some rest. Also while I admit the 5th book was rather side track heavy it has a purpose as well, even if it goes about it in a round about way.
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I ran it as written. I didn't have time to rewrite it. And from doing so, I saw that 4 and 5 need to be heavily rewritten.
4 is not nearly as bad as 5. 5 takes a lot of effort and requires you to be on your A game to role play it and NOT need a rewrite.
I say this because it HEAVILY relies on you conveying the right information during the meeting with the queen. Fail to do so, and the PC's are left with a huge question mark over their heads.
I cant believe player quit because they didnt like how one adventure went. Man if this was the case our game group would of Quit the game to many times to remember. I just cant see quiting because of how the adventure is, now if you have a problem with the DM or other players but cause you didnt like the adventure thats just odd to me
*Cast Recorp... Resurrection*
How does this spell interact with creature types (does the person have their own type and the type of the meat suit or just one of them), bane weapons, favored enemy abilities?