With the changes to the sorcerer class with the addition of bloodlines I noticed the Dragon bloodline special qualities are very similar to the half-dragon template (AL +3). What happens in this particular case? Do the features simply stack. Some the damage size increase by 1 step. Or does the half-dragon taking the sorcerer gain additional extra features specifically only for half-dragons to counter the effects of duplication between half-dragon race and sorcerer class dragon bloodline.
Similar situation may occur with other race templates.
From what I read in Alpha 3, I can't wait to see the final release in August 2009.
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In the instance of templates for races If I were a sorceror I would just choose either destined or arcane bloodlines and not worry about dealing with stacking abilities. This way you have your dragon abilities and the bloodline abilities, if you go with a template matching your bloodline I'm pretty sure you just have to take the better of the two, and have two seperate ways in which your breath weapon works.
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You can also make a Half Red-Dragon/ Red Dragon - Dragon Blooded Sorcerer. Whether the features stack or not depends on the wording of the template and of the class features. (Based on the wording of the class it appears some features stack and some don't).
The game is filled with suboptimal choices with redundant or ineffective combinations (You can make a multiclassed Fighter/ Sorcerer/ Wizard/ Cleric/ Rogue/ Bard). This is not a problem with the game, the simple solution is to not use these poor combinations. If you want a Half-Dragon Sorcerer I suggest using a different Blood Line.
-- Dennis
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The game is filled with suboptimal choices with redundant or ineffective combinations (You can make a multiclassed Fighter/ Sorcerer/ Wizard/ Cleric/ Rogue/ Bard). This is not a problem with the game, the simple solution is to not use these poor combinations. If you want a Half-Dragon Sorcerer I suggest using a different Blood Line.
-- Dennis
Destined or Arcane bloodlines would work quite well, I'd think.
Half-dragon, Undead Bloodline Sorcerer... The byproduct of a Dracolich?
What happens in this particular case? Do the features simply stack?
Do dragon bloodlines stack with half-dragon abilities? Well, in 3.5e, if one provided a racial bonus, and the other an enhancement bonus or something, we'd know right away. But that system seems to be gone now. We're forced to guess, or to houserule.
In 3.5e, of course, bonuses with different names stacked. That was a simple rule. But Alpha 3 uses vague terminology throughtout, with no attention to names or stacking. For example, the mage armor spell now provides an enhancement bonus... or, no, wait, it's an "enhancement spell." Does it stack with armor? With an enhacement bonus to AC? Neither? You are not meant to know. Paizo knows, but unless you're a member of the Inner Secret Circle, the terminology and specifics are left nebulous, so you'll never figure it out unless you're a dinosaur like me who used to cast enchant an item spells in 1e. Younger players are pointedly excluded.
Mindless objects and even locations can be "enchanted" now, even though Enchantment spells are mind-affecting. Some Enchantment spells are probably enhancement spells, which makes sense in Pathfinder, because apparently "enchantment" and "enhancement" are synonymous on odd-numbered pages, or something.
When in doubt, bloodline and racial abilities stack on alternate leap years.
Thank for all the interesting comments you provide. Some rather interesting combinations can be formed when adding a template onto another race and then choosing another bloodline of sorcerer.
I play around with the ideas presented so far. I will take an existing half-dragon elf sorcerer and see what interesting extra features can be added to character when not using the obvious bloodline.
I must say I can't wait for August 2009 to get this manual. Purchasing is such a pain for me, thus I just be patient waiting for the final version to come out.
I have to say to those developing this enhancement source book for D&D 3.5, you have done a fantastic job in correcting errors of 3.5. Getting rid of some really stupid rules (XP cost for magic), fixing up vague rules (particular the bane of polymorph type effects), beefing up the base classes to make them more attractive, and adding extras to races that still have useful features event at 20th level.
I just hope there is some interesting rules and content for Epic and Psionics to come in the Final version.
I'd be inclined to recommend to a half-dragon sorcerer player to consider the elemental bloodline that would be appropriate for his dragon, or else the arcane or destined bloodlines, as have been suggested. They're thematically appropriate.
As for stacking abilities, both give you claws and breath weapons... I'd say the two breath weapons (racial and bloodline) would be kept as distinct abilities. The claws would probably be a "better of the two damage dice" choices, though I suppose a DM could house rule it as giving you Improved Natural Attack instead.
Well one can restrect a half-Drgaon to only Dragon bloodline (expanding this even to prestiage classes like Dragon Diciple to certain bloodlines or)
Be prepared, take a Half-Giant or Half-Elf, or Half-Orc with the half-clestial templent then max out wiht Dragon Diciple and become a half-dragon, thats four halfs that make a whole.
Whats worse is that in my own house ruling I made the Dragon Diciple not just get extra spells but also spell progression as a sor. For anyone wanting to know why I would do this its simple. The Sor. (to my mind anyways)was created only to be multiclassed into by Fighters or rangers, or what have you. Just to give an arcane edge without the trappings of a wizard. Yet they gave the sor. the fluff concept that took a life of its own. The Dragon Diciple is so suited for the multiclassed character, as with most prestiage classes for the sor. So I did this, and with power creep the sorc. has gone from one of the weakest to one of the most powerful. That said I come as a pladium player so we are used to power leaps, and laugh at you creepers.
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it is also possible to have two bloodlines w/only one manifesting as bloodline powers. For instance if your ancestery included a hellfire wyrm your infernal blood could overide your dragon blood, thus allowing you to take the draconic disciple prestige class ( i also have a thread for discussion on how a draconic sorcerer/dragondisciple should work so plaese find it a post your opinion!,)this could also work with a dragon w/the falf-fiendish template. Power to the sorcerers, the only true aracnists!!!
I'd like to see a graduated gestalt leveling to Half-Dragon Apothesis at L20 similar to the Dread Necromancer Lich Apothesis at L20.
Did I miss something about a change to metagmagic feats, esp quicken spell?
I see in the A3 that Draconic Bloodline gets Quicken Spells as a metamagic feat, but you cannot use Quicken w/ spontaneous cast since spon cast meta is a full-round action.
The way Quicken Spell works has been changed, the info is on pg 77.
Specifically, spontaneous casters can now apply Quicken Spell (and only Quicken Spell) to their spells without increasing casting time.