So I sat down tonight to work on some brainstorming for my upcoming Eberron game. To one side of my I have a stack of campaign specific books, to my other side a stack of rulebooks, and right in front of me is a stack of Dungeon Magazines and Pathfinder volumes to help me weave my story together. But then I come to my problem. You see I know what adventures I'd like to use, the St-Demain trilogy at the head of those, but for the most part I have an Episodic campaign and what I really want is what you guys have pulled off in your Adventure Paths. I want the story to build to the climactic finish and for the PCs to figure things out on their way through so not everything is aparent from the start. I'm not sure how.
So I thought I would ask you guys. Paizo has put out the best campaign arcs I've ever read or played, be they SCAP, AoW, STAP or RotRL now, which means if anyone knows what they're talking about it's you guys.
So, Readers and writers of all things Paizo: How do you write an AP?
thanks for the help!
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well, obviously I am not Paizo, and am sure my stuff isn't up to their level, but I have been working on an AP-like adventure for a but now.
First thing I did was brainstorm on the genre I wanted. I settled on a desert adventure.
Then I read through several desert adventures to see what else has been done. Watched the Mummy series and a few other movies in the desert. Read a couple of books set in the desert and read like mad about cultures in the desert.
Then I brainstormed on what I wanted to do. What did I want to include and what did I want to exclude. What did I want to be typical and cliche and what did I want that would be a unique twist on things.
Then I began developing a plot. Who is the BBEG. Why is he a threat and to whom. What are his goals, motivations? How is he going to achieve his goals? WHat are the tangible noticeable results of those goals being met?
Who will be the allies for the PCs? Why are they allies for the PCs? What can they do to aid the PCs?
Now that I had all of this listed out before me I brainstormed on what stages would happen that PCs could interact with to foil the BBEG and how they could interact with allies. So these stages became major adventure plots.
So now that I have several major stages and plots I assign these to adventures. Then I take that adventure, plot and stage and break it down even further. If PCs are at this stage how do they learn of the Plot and why, what must they do to reach the Major Stage of the story. Once there what must they do? WHat are the repercussions for BBEG and allies and PCs?
I know people will hate this idea but play a little bit of World of Warcraft. WoW uses quests to make the player achieve certain goals. They use quest chains to narrate major story lines in the game. They just break the story down into tiny bits of info that related quests are able to reveal. Now, I am not saying to do it just exactly like WoW does, that is absurd, but it gives you some insight into how to break things down and into packets of useful data and use them in quests.
Now, that is just my way of doing things and I am sure everyone has different ways. Take Logue... I imagine that weirdo can just start cranking stuff out. Paizo calls him up and says "We need an adventure about X that involves Y and Z in two months." And he cracks out sheer sick genius. I expect it would take me a much longer time to get something prepared, and certainly no where near his level of quality (and sickness).
Now that I wasted your time with my unprofessional way of doing things I would like to see how others do it. I'd also like to see how Paizo does it and then how professional adventure writers do it. What is your "process"
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If you are bringing it up to 4e with Points of Light, then you are going to want to track other events going on at the same time...
THE CHASE
so when your PCs chase the villain across country they plunge through the recently raised town of New Lexica which has been destroyed by foreign troops and is now being looted by deserters, or encounter the werewolf that just infected the village of Turdypoo off in the woods to their left a few miles.
The BBEG has already passed the location and his/her presence may have alerted others you are comming.
The Wilderness Encounter Table is filled with sentients and monsters comming from somewhere and going somewhere else.
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I start with the players party,
Then I create a NPC down on his luck having to do whatever to survive.
Then I create a NPC that just walked into her fathers bedroom to see he has hung himself. It is in the dead of winter, whats going to happen to her?
Then I create a set of ruins with creatures that look like heads with 4 arms, one arm is carrying a scalpel.
Then I create.....
Then I create.....
Then I start the adventure. The PCs interact with NPC #1, help, agrivate, or kill the situation. EVERYONE levels.
The NPC down on his luck, gets arrested, now hates the PCs.
The NPC who discovered her dad killed himself wanders out into the woods and nearly freezes to death. A snow sprite saves her.
The ruins that lay dorment for centuries awakens when a party goes in and gets killed there....
All the timelines will eventually intersect, the Girl and her Sprite may rob or help the party sometime, the imprisoned NPC gets out and seeks vengence. One of the adventurers killed in the ruins was a friend of one of the PCs.
Having all these timelines in my head makes for a HUGE world of possabilities. And an incredable amount of flavor. And it allows me to "Play" all the NPCs from lvl 1.
Thats how I do it. It takes a lot of planning up front but after that its all done for you and all you have to do is let the players wander the planet and they all eventually come together.
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big long timeline
I do things similar - I figure out notable NPCs first, write up a backstory for each, and figure out what level and what type of meeting each will have. Then I figure out the 4 main events that happened before they met with the PCS and usually one developed and notes for 2 more paths they may take depending on what the PCs do in their meeting (even if one of the notes ones is 'dead'. I then write each event that I have down on index cards and arrange them into the order I want them to occur (if I have 2 occuring at the same time they are connected by a paperclip). This allows me to add events in or move them easily without fear of erasing other events. After this is done I figure out how the PCs are going to lvl up and get from one event to the other.
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I start at the end and work backwards.
I start with the villain. Who is she? What does she want? Why does she want it? Why would it be bad for her to achieve it?
Then I think about what she has to do in order to accomplish her goals. She wants to drop an asteroid on a major city? Well, she's gonna need a whoziwhatsis to pull the asteroid down, but the only known suviving whoziwhatsis is lost in the jungles of Someplace Farfromhere. That means she needs someone who knows where it is, and some way to get to Someplace Farfromhere in a manner that allows her to transport the whoziwhatsis back to her Lair of Doom. So one set of minions goes to capture Dr. Soandso, while another hijacks the good ship Cinatit to travel up the Farfromhere River, and...
...and eventually, all of that spills back to something that the PCs can interfere with. And learn from. And eventually figure out what's happening, and why, and how to stop it.
And then they go do so.
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I think James turns to a page in the 1E Monster Manual and said, we need to reinvent these guys.. and it just so happened to be goblins. And then Eric thought, well everyone loves Iggwilv.. let's do an evil queen that's kinda like her. Not to be ignored Mike chimed it like the little fanboy he is, "We need drow!"
In all seriousness, I have no idea how they came up with all this.. but I won't be surprised if I wasn't far off.
P.S. I'll be very disappointed with Mike if Second Darkness doesn't have plenty of busty, scantly clad drow females on the cover and inside of it.
P.S. I'll be very disappointed with Mike if Second Darkness doesn't have plenty of busty, scantly clad drow females on the cover and inside of it.
Urza, we don't always agree, but right now I'd invite you over to have a beverage of your choice! :D
Now I'm just hoping we don't cap at 12th level this time. I'd rather have tried this with CotCT or whatever mysterious AP #4 will be...
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P.S. I'll be very disappointed with Mike if Second Darkness doesn't have plenty of busty, scantly clad drow females on the cover and inside of it.
Why with me? You say that like I have any kind of decision-making power. lol :D
That said, though, I am going to be even more involved with this adventure path than with previous ones.
Why with me? You say that like I have any kind of decision-making power. lol :D
That said, though, I am going to be even more involved with this adventure path than with previous ones.
Well, and not intending to speak for SirUrza, as customers we don't always know what the distinction exists between Editors. I mean, it's obvious that where Pathfinder is concerned the buck stops with James Jacobs. On the other hand, there are times where James doesn't know the answer to something because it's outside of the purview of what he's working on.
For example, the running joke between us about Iomedae. I now know better know than to ask James about her, because he's admitted that he really doesn't know a whole lot. When I first subscribed that sort of surprised me, because she's listed in the first Pathfinder Runelord Pathfinder Player's Guide. How could the Editor-in-Chief not know? Now, over time, I get that James is not developing the whole world. That's a lot of work, and he's a hard working guy as it is.
But as a fan, subscriber, hanger-around, I still don't have a concrete idea of who covers what area and what sort of topics. That is, other than that James directly oversees the Pathfinder AP. Even then, I don't know how far his reach is until I ask him something specific.
(Good blog article maybe? Who does what?)
And this is by no means a gripe or a complaint. :D It's just not always obvious who is the 'go to' Editor on a particular topic.
Back to topic, can I ask why the increased involvment in AP#3? And I'm not alluding that there's anything wrong with it at all, I'm curious? Is it something you're excited about, or will it have a lot of tie-in to material that will play a role in "big picture Golarion" topics?
To what extent can we pester you with questions?
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...excellent points...
And this is by no means a gripe or a complaint. :D It's just not always obvious who is the 'go to' Editor on a particular topic.
Heh. Half the time we don't know who the go-to editor is either. ;)
Back to topic, can I ask why the increased involvment in AP#3? And I'm not alluding that there's anything wrong with it at all, I'm curious? Is it something you're excited about, or will it have a lot of tie-in to material that will play a role in "big picture Golarion" topics?
To what extent can we pester you with questions?
My involvement hasn't been made public yet, but as soon as it is you can pester me all you want. :)
My involvement hasn't been made public yet, but as soon as it is you can pester me all you want. :)
Bah, we can pester you now . . . it just won't have the same effect to it . . ;)
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I start with a villain, and decide what he wants. Then I decide, off the back of his wants (destroy the world, rule the kingdom) what he needs to do it (set up evil cult, steal the artefact). Off the back of these effects of his desires, I try and find how this will hook the adventurers (normally an investigation, to kick things off). From that I work back to what impact the actions of the PCs will have, how the villain might react, and so on - this gives me the overarching plot.
That said, there is nothing wrong with interludes, or even fairly episodic adventures tied in together. The trick is to weave them so they seem connected, or at least related. The players will have ideas themselves about their characters and this provides plot - either integral or sidequest, but it is all good. Pre-figuring is very helpful in this regard - lay a hint, have the PCs do something else, and the go back to what the hint was talking about. For example, RotRL is very episodic, and the PCs really don't confront the BBEGs plans until PF4 - but they still drop hints with sihedron runes and such-like, to give (a somewhat spurious) continuity.
And you have an advantage - you don't have to write it out, so you can flex and amend as you go along, and have better ideas. So your AP can be much more flexible. I think it would be a mistake to think in terms of a the published APs - instead, consider it a framework on which to hang adventure ideas, with maybe the climax at the end but an outline, but possibly not fully-defined, path (or paths) how to get there.
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I start with a villain, and decide what he wants. Then I decide, off the back of his wants (destroy the world, rule the kingdom) what he needs to do it (set up evil cult, steal the artefact). Off the back of these effects of his desires, I try and find how this will hook the adventurers (normally an investigation, to kick things off). From that I work back to what impact the actions of the PCs will have, how the villain might react, and so on - this gives me the overarching plot.
That sounds... very familiar. ;)
I like to choose adventures and string them together. Usually I create a major plotlone and then choose from all the adventures I have to make the AP.
As Aubury points out you don't have to have everything all set out in advance. What I did was pick out lots of my favorites and drop clues to the PCs about each of the adventures making sure that all of them somehow moved the plot forward. The players then decide which adventure to go on. This allows the players some input into what the next adventure is going to be about.
Beside having a basic plot point regarding each of the adventures I don't do any real work on them until my players indicate that they plan on following that particular adventure lead up. Only then do I actually sit down to do the heavy lifting of turning what is often a 1st or 2nd edition adventure into 3.5 and changing things so it both fits into my homebrew and fits into the plot.
So when my PCs finish off with the current adventure I'll ask them what they want to do next. They have three major clues at this point in the plot. They can pursue an artifact hidden in an ancient and dangerous dungeon, they can try and decapitate a major enemy's leadership which would involve travel to some unknown islands across the sea or they can try and bring in allies to their cause which means visiting the mountain kingdoms of the Iron Clan Dwarves.
The artifact hidden in ancient ruins would actually be me stashing the artifact in Maure Castle and then modifying the rest of the adventure enough to conform to my world and the needs of my plot (seekers changed into one of the seven lost clans etc.).
If they travel across the sea to assassinate enemy leaders then I blow the dust off Isle of the Ape - update it to 3.5 and I add a Minitour naval base to the far side of it. I'll total their ship with a Kraken or something as they approach and the adventure will be about the PCs traversing the island, finding the Minitour base, infiltrating it, killing the leadership and then figuring out a way to get off the island and home. Olonga would still be on the island but he's not actually important to the plot. He might be encountered but the PCs would probably be wise to run away from him.
It's 3 Am here, I just got home from work and have University in the morning, so I'm afraid I neither have the time now am in a condition to post anything constructive, coherent or even conversational.
I just wanted to say thanks to everyone who has taken the time to help me with this. I've got a really busy couple of days coming up but I wanted to say that I have and am keeping an eye on this thread and reading all of your advice intently and I'll reply to everyone's posts in the next couple of days as soon as I can
Night everyo....*passes out snoring*
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That sounds... very familiar. ;)I start with a villain, and decide what he wants. Then I decide, off the back of his wants (destroy the world, rule the kingdom) what he needs to do it (set up evil cult, steal the artefact). Off the back of these effects of his desires, I try and find how this will hook the adventurers (normally an investigation, to kick things off). From that I work back to what impact the actions of the PCs will have, how the villain might react, and so on - this gives me the overarching plot.
:-) Just read your post now. Great minds!
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Begin with a Moral Quandary that gets them out of their village, then destroy the village while they are away.
THE OUTCAST
"It is the decision of the Elders that Kimya Shellby is a witch." The gathered villagers murmered at the decision of Elder Grimwal. The twelve year old screamed, reaching through the tiny window of the Palanaquin.
"She must be taken five miles through the Wood from the village and abandoned on the mainroad." The Village elders nod in agreement signalling the Village Guardsmen present to take her beyond the Forest.
DM BRIEFING: The PCs begin as Village Guardsmen tasked with abandoning a child on a roadside far beyond their home village. The twelve year old Kimya Shelby has been troubled by terrible dreams of a Woman tavern keeper being murdered and the moon being destroyed as a consequence.
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Why with me? You say that like I have any kind of decision-making power. lol :D That said, though, I am going to be even more involved with this adventure path than with previous ones.
Because you're my third favorite Paizoian and I know you want to be second. :P
My involvement hasn't been made public yet, but as soon as it is you can pester me all you want. :)
Ha! Now I know I can blame you! :)
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The following text may not directly answer your question but serve as an example of how it can be done. At least it's what I did :)
I think there are two important points to consider when creating a Campaign. The starting point and the big final. When I began to think about my campaign the first thing I chose was "Against the Circle" by Sam Brown (Dungeon #130). The Campaign being planned from level 1 - 10, I chose "Porphyryr House Horror" by James Jacobs (#95).
From this point on I began to develop a plot involving misguided Yuan-Ti trying to awaken their sleeping god via a ritual which would actually kill the Great Snake and make it possible for Set to officially replace her. As I planned to run the campaign in Faerun's north, i began looking for adventures tied to those themes. But the only adventure I actually planned to be run was "The Beasts of Aulbesmil" by Skip William (#131) which could be nicely connected to "Against the Circle".
Enter the Player Characters. I looked at them and their Backgrounds to get an Idea of how to integrate them into the main plot. There was Veleri, a young elan without memories which gave me the opportunity to use "Final Resting Place" by Michael Kortes (#122). We had agreed that she had somehow been created in an Illithid Laboratory underground which fits nicely to the experiments Sae'taz made in the troglodyte caverns of this adventure. Experiments to build an army for the new Yuan-Ti God after the final ritual (Why an Illithid would work for Yuan-Ti is out of the bounds of this Story Line and will be explained to the SC, should they decide to continue the Campaign in higher levels
There was Stedd, a monk of the old order on a quest to free a cloister out of evil's hands ("Dungeon of the Fire Opal" by Jonathan Tweet in #84). I decided said Fire Opal to actually be an artifact which could be used to stop the Yuan-Ti-Ritual, to connect this adventure to the main plot.
There is Ugnor, a half-orc barbarian who wants to become a member of the Bloodhound PrC, so I thought about including "Racing the Snake" by John Simcoe (#105).
There is Yuki, a gloaming taking levels as a shadowcaster, which makes Asnon Caralyas "Requiem of the Shadow Serpent" (#139) a natural choice.
And so on. It is clear that the PC's (and the players') actions may heavily change what happens. After "Final Resting Place" (which is what we have nearly finished at the moment), I am lucky to have a new villain to follow, so I've no need for an Half-Yuan-Ti assassin and I may drop "Racing the Snake".
On the other hand I may have a much better idea for the Fire Opal. What I didn't know when I began with my planning was that the storyline and especially the final adventure would possibly fit into the Savage Tide AP. One Player,a sun-elven wizard who had in the meantime to stop playing, thought about visiting Waterdeep to become a member of the Tel' Teukiira. Additionaly I had dropped a hint that there they could contact an agent of Dediana Extaminos, the leader of Hlondeth (the good Yuan-Ti in my campaign), to learn more about the threat they are set against.
So I'm actually pondering to blend this plotline together with the plotline from "Savage Tide". Should they decide to follow this hint, they'll likely come just to the rescue of Aubreck Dallion (said agent, from Mike Mearl's "Salvage Operation in #123) out of the hands of some bloody Bullywugs. Aubreck will replace Lavinia Vanderboren. He is a good friend of Baron Joaquin Aulbes and some kind of mentor of his nephew Lysander (from "Beasts of Aulbesmil"), which is in the state to become the PC's nemesis and may make a very good replacement of Lavinia's evil brother. The Fire Opal will in truth be one of Demogorgon's pearls (which poses the question: What the hell did the Old Order do with such an item of destruction? ). I will have to change some things in the AP, but in the end I think it will prove to be worth it.
Long text, short message: Do it as Aubrey said. And be creative. The result may have not much to do with the original adventures but you can do what the authors never could: you can tie in YOUR PCs.
When I set up a structured campaign of my own, I usually start with a few questions before I start on the actual design work:
What setting will the campaign be in? What are the distinguishing characteristics of the setting (main races, allowed classes, alternate rules in effect, etc.)?
For example, the Pathfinder APs are set in Golarion. Golarion has some distinguishing charateristics sketched out in the Rise of the Runelords Players' Guide (main races and cultural backgrounds, classes and deities, new feats, new equipment).
What are the central themes for the campaign? How do the themes tie in with the setting and relate to the distinguishing charateristics?
The central themes for Rise of the Runelords seem to be sin and corruption. The seven sins are tied with the magical system of ancient Thassilon, while corruption is used as a defining characteristic of the villains.
What are the main goals of the BBEG(s)? How do the goals tie in with the central themes and the setting?
Karzoug is trying to emerge from the runewell and re-establish Thassilon. He uses magic based on the seven sins and employs agents to corrupt others to meet his goals.
Once I answer the above questions, I've established a guideline for my design work. The design process is pretty much the same as others have written above.
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Because you're my third favorite Paizoian and I know you want to be second. :P
Pshaw. Second is just first loser. I always aim for the top, Baby. Oh yeah!
*does the Duffman hip move thingy*
Ha! Now I know I can blame you! :)
You're free to blame me for anything Paizo does that you don't like... just so long as that moves me closer to being your favorite Paizoian. ;D
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Because you're my third favorite Paizoian and I know you want to be second. :PPshaw. Second is just first loser. I always aim for the top, Baby. Oh yeah!
*does the Duffman hip move thingy*
Ha! Now I know I can blame you! :)You're free to blame me for anything Paizo does that you don't like... just so long as that moves me closer to being your favorite Paizoian. ;D
Then make sure lots of scantly clad drow female art gets ordered while James isn't looking. ;)
I want to thank everyone who posted advice or conversation in this thread, I'm sorry I wasn't around to participate in either but all of the input is really apreciated. I've been reading through a lot of Monte Cook's Dungeoncraft articles, as well as the advice given here and I think that as far as making a good campaign work I need two things, one is my "main" adventure, in this case the story I'm crafting around Victor Saint-Demain using various dungeon adventure's and homebrew stuff. I think just as important is a sense of the rest of the world. In a broad sense I mean Khorvaire and all of Eberron but on a smaller and more important scale I mean Sharn. I think I should have tons of smaller plots going on in the background, What are the Dragonmarked Houses up to, are Boromar Clan or the Emerald Claw up to something, What's the news with the Royal family? things the PCs may never touch but will hear about while in the tavern,
What do you guys think?