Given that WoTC does not/will not publish Greyhawk material, save with RARE exception (and LG of course), does anyone think that we can expect to see any material for this setting published in the future by WoTC, (other than the already announced Expedition to Castle Greyhawk)?
Is the End of Dungeon/Dragon effectively the End of Greyhawk?
It wouldn't be the first end of Greyhawk, and it probaby wouldn't be the last, either.
Wizards of the Coast have basically said that it depends on how well Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk sells. If it sells well, they will put out another book for it, and if it doesn't, then they won't.
I plan on buying EtGR, although it will be my last purchase from them, as they have been putting out crap. However if it sells well, and they put out more Greyhawk stuff, we will see...
Wizards of the Coast have basically said that it depends on how well Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk sells. If it sells well, they will put out another book for it, and if it doesn't, then they won't.
REALLY would like to know where you heard that- Feel like sharing?
Creative Director
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Wizards of the Coast have basically said that it depends on how well Expedition to the Ruins of Greyhawk sells. If it sells well, they will put out another book for it, and if it doesn't, then they won't.REALLY would like to know where you heard that- Feel like sharing?
It's been mentioned several times on messageboards or conventions by WotC folk, as far as I understand it. It's also a little bit common sense... if a product does well enough, it gets a sequel.
if a product does well enough, it gets a sequel.
Especially if it's owned by WoTC. Hip hop publishing at it's finest.
As for Living Greyhawk, yes it exists. Yes people play no matter how many times I hear people say that it's dieing or dead or what ever. The numbers keep growing according to the RPGA, so just because it's not popular in one area doesn't mean it's dead. There are 3 game shops in my local area(VA beach, VA) that have a regular game every week and usually with a packed table every adventure, and often making up two tables (6 to a table). Though it seems now only LG and 3 home campaigns are going to have to be my Greyhawk fix from now. Unfortunatley the home campaigns are almost half over. LG is fun. I like getting to meet new people all the time that my character doesn't kill, and reminds me on occasion of how much I love my home campaigns, when at a table with someone I want to.
It astounds me that "if it sells well" is the line of thinking, in regards to whether or not there is a "sequel." When hasn't Greyhawk sold well? Even in the early to mid 90's with all the lousy (so-called) 'Greyhawk' material like Puppets and Falcon's..., I don't think that sales tanked. WoTC knows that Greyhawk products will sell VERY well, yet they in their limited wisdom choose not to produce them. If my memory is correct, the Living Greyhawk journal was one of the few recent (last 10 years) publications to sell out.
We all know how popular and supported the Greyhawk campaign is, and WoTC made it their 'core' campaign for 3.0 & 3.5 so it would seem that they (WoTC) agree; yet they produce NO other materials directly for it, save Cook's RttToEE and now Expedition to CG. I can then only conclude that there is some sort of "resistance" to publishing more of what has sold well previously. That's why we have a joke of a campaign world like Ebberon, as an attempt to rope in additional gamers, while the old school Greyhawkers are yet again taken for granted by the clones at WoTC.
I don´t think that we have seen the last of Greyhawk. GH was dead.... let me see, when Gary Gygax left TSR (1985 or so), then we got stuff like Fate of Istus to the Falcon Series around the change from 1e to 2e( Note: I don´t judge the quality, and I argue that Puppets and Gargoyle and Childs Play have the GH logo on them when they should not - but thats not the point here), with From the Ashes and the few follow-ups ending the ´88-92 or so GH. GH was dead after that. Fans insisted long enough that in 98, new GH products were published. This ended with the advent of 3e. Then, the Gazeetter and the LGG were published for 3e, and LG was started (and runs still, with quite some fan support). And since paizo published the mags, some GH tidbits started to appear, with the APs set there. Ok, the mags break away, but with LG still running and with the Expedition to Castle Greyhawk upcoming, the setting is not dead.
Rules Change, Greyhawk Endures! as they say on canonfire.
How big was the print run of the LGG ? Perhaps it was small, but WotC did not count on the interest as being as high as it was. Sold out is a relative information - if the print run was 10.000 or 50.000, that changes the quality of this statement.
My FLGS had one still the last time I checked (only a few months ago) perhaps I should buy it so I have one for keeping :-)
Stefan
Is this indifference towards Greyhawk still some sort of Hatfield-McCoy/Montague-Capulet feud of Them vs. Gary Gygax? By not supporting it, they are getting the one up on him. Can't we all just get along and play Greyhawk together?
Is this indifference towards Greyhawk still some sort of Hatfield-McCoy/Montague-Capulet feud of Them vs. Gary Gygax?
I don´t think so, at least not from WotCs side. I´d guess that most of the WotC staff weren´t with TSR at the time Gary was kicked out (thats been over 20 years ago, mind you). That Gary was upset being kicked out of the company he co-founded is more than understandable, however.
For me, they do not want to have two rather standard fantay worlds in print (FR/GH). The start of FR was after Gary was kicked out, probably because they did not want any copyright hassles, so you could trace that back to the time. However, to construct some sort of longstanding feud from this seems far-fetched to me. Today, they use FR to print new books, and use GH for RPGA/LG play. So they don´t need to produce any GH stuff, as the folks from the LG campaign do it. And having two standard fantasy campaigns in print might damage the sales of both.
Why they put the GH gods in the PH is not obvious to me at the moment.
Stefan
Why they put the GH gods in the PH is not obvious to me at the moment.Stefan
Yeah I don't get that. And why did they have to start depersonalizing spells and magic items - no more Mordenkainen's this or Tenser's that. Maybe the situation was more akin to a bungled divorce settlement than a feud.
Maybe Exhibition to Castle Greyhawk is them starting to directly support it. It's possible they could've been content with the material Dragon and Dungeon produced for the setting, and, now that they've decided not to renew their lease with Paizo, are beginning to support it more directly because of its profitability.
If Greyhawk material has always sold well, then there shouldn't be much worry that it'll disappear. However, with the main outlet for Greyhawk material being gone soon, they might want to find out just how well fans will accept their hardcover, full-length, single-volume style. It would probably be a smart business investment, especially considering they have Hasbro to answer to.
There's also the fact that we don't know the details yet on what sort of online material they plan to replace the magazines with.
Why they put the GH gods in the PH is not obvious to me at the moment.That's because Greyhawk is the default campaign setting for Dungeons & Dragons. Thus, any "core"/non-Forgotten Realms/non-Eberron book is presumed to already be set in Greyhawk, if any flavor exists. This is why you get more of the Greyhawk deities in "Complete Divine." I'm not certain if this applies toward their adventures, though--I don't recall if "Red Hand of Doom" has a location on Oerth, after all.
Yeah, but - if this is the default setting, it is even more strange that there is not even the smallest setting book available, only via used-book selling.
"Red Hand of Doom" has a FR location. To put it in GH, you have some work to do and will probably end with the big maps being useless, as they don´t fit Oerths geography that well. IIRC, folks put it either near Geoff/Sterich or near Ratik for the most part. I don´t think that there was any "official" location given.Stefan