I have been thinking how unlikely it is that the players will actually be able to kill Dragotha..... What I usually do in this situation is just fudje the numbers to keep the campaign going (and avoid a TPK). I dont want to do that this time...
So I was thinking about what someone said in an earlier posts about the PC's cloning themselves to give them a second chance, this would be cool, but I would like to make an adventure around it. It seems kinda silly if Tenser just says before you go Ill clone you! Anyone got any ideas for the PC's to earn this? Like researching the spell or finding an item to do this ect. I was thinking about giving the pc's a chance to do this in alhaster or on the island of the order of storms (forget the name)... Whadda you think?
The Clone idea has been done in my game. Our Warforged Wizard Cloned the players and the Clones just sit in the players base while they adventure. They create a new Clone of the person about every other level so dying won't be that much of a tired climb back up the Level ladder. If your players have the Revivify spell, the Cleric of the group has one round to cast it and they come back to life. Revify was last printed in Dragon #342.
Sure, they come back at -1 HP, but you could Quicken it, use a 9th level slot and the Cleric can then use Heal on them, that's a costly way to solve it, but hey, your alive.
Live with it.
*Guffaws*
You could also have a mini-adventure where they stumble across a room where Tenser has/is making clones. This could be by accident or on purpose depending on what Tenser's motives are for helping them in the Age of Worms.
His castle is massive and he is likely to have magical spaces and teleporters hidden within. I can't even imagine what a party might stumble across if they wandered inside Tenser's castle.
Or you could use the spell Death Pact. (Spell Comp. Page 60)
You lose 2 Con forever, (unless you cast Wish once the Pact is activated or dispelled) but it's like an extra quarter at the arcade.
I think I was the one who mentioned clones, having recently read through Return of the Eight, and being reminded that powerful wizards (at least in Greyhawk) usually keep two or three brewing in various secret hideaways. My approach to this would be to give them a hint that it's a damn good idea in response to a divination query about the upcoming quest to destroy Dragotha, then let them research how to do it, or ask Tenser/Manzorian for help. (Tenser certainly knows how, since it's well known he was killed by Rary, but one of his clones escaped Rary's attention.)
It also could be knowledge somehow made available as part of the characters drinking from the Fountain of Lost Knowledge, if you don't want to make it part of a separate adventure.
Another alternative would be to cast a contingency spell on one or more of the PCs that instantly teleports their remains back to Magepoint or some other suitable location in the event of their death, enabling Tenser to have Agath resurrect them. (Of course, some means of death might negate this--alternatively you could use contingency to cast a variant dream spell to notify Tenser of death, allowing him to have Agath cast true resurrection.)
They create a new Clone of the person about every other level so dying won't be that much of a tired climb back up the Level ladder.
You don't need to re-clone if you level. The clone comes to life at whatever character level the PC was at death, minus one, as soon as the character dies (or as soon as the clone is mature, if the character dies first). The only concern is that once the clone is full-grown (2d4 months), it begins to rot if the person's soul is not available to enter it--but this is easily countered by gentle repose.
One other concern, of course, is that PCs might have been made undead in the course of their demise, making their souls unavailable for revivification by any means.
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One way to allude to the wisdom of preparing for the worst and cloning themselves without it being ham-fisted: one of the sage NPCs, such as Manzorian, could relate that "the lich's phylactery is not only key to their creation, but to their preservation... similar to those living beings of great power who create clones of themselves."
All the pointers are there--"preservation", "living beings of great power", "CREATE clones"--all in one simple phrase. If they don't catch on, let the NPCs words trail off there while he/she looks intently at them.
Yeah, I guess it makes sense enough, theyll have access to the spells by then, if they dont wanna die they should just use it. The story of tenser will be a great way to relay this possibility. Thanks!
You don't need to re-clone if you level. The clone comes to life at whatever character level the PC was at death, minus one, as soon as the character dies (or as soon as the clone is mature, if the character dies first).
Are you sure about this? From my reading of the SRD description of the spell (see below), it seems clear that the clone's level is one less than the current level of the character at the time the clone is created, or one less than the character's current level, whichever is lower. Was there some sort of ruling that changed this?
When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.
You don't need to re-clone if you level. The clone comes to life at whatever character level the PC was at death, minus one, as soon as the character dies (or as soon as the clone is mature, if the character dies first).Are you sure about this? From my reading of the SRD description of the spell (see below), it seems clear that the clone's level is one less than the current level of the character at the time the clone is created, or one less than the character's current level, whichever is lower. Was there some sort of ruling that changed this?
When the clone is completed, the original’s soul enters it immediately, if that creature is already dead. The clone is physically identical with the original and possesses the same personality and memories as the original. In other respects, treat the clone as if it were the original character raised from the dead, including the loss of one level or 2 points of Constitution (if the original was a 1st-level character). If this Constitution adjustment would give the clone a Constitution score of 0, the spell fails. If the original creature has lost levels since the flesh sample was taken and died at a lower level than the clone would otherwise be, the clone is one level below the level at which the original died.
I think you're misreading the word "original," which simply refers to the character for whom the clone exists, not some notional abstract concept like "the character at time of cloning". (Otherwise how could the "original's soul" enter the clone's body.) The verbiage you highlighted is merely there to make clear that if the character takes level loss before death, the level loss (being permanent) affects the level of the character's clone, just as it would affect the character's old or magically renewed body if you were performing any other revivification magic. Basically, the soul contains all of the character's mental powers and experience (including spell caster level, spells known, feats, skills, knowledge, class levels and associated abilities, etc.), while the cloned body contains the character's physical powers (ability scores). Reuniting the two is traumatic (like raise dead and similar spells) and results in the loss of one of the soul's levels (or 2 points of CON if the soul is 1st level), but otherwise all of the mental powers and experience are intact and available to the new body.
Cloning is a lot cheaper than clerical revivification spells, but this is balanced by the time delay and trouble in growing a clone and the need to have prepared in advance for the contingency of untimely death--I don't see the logic in having to repeat the process every level or two, as long as proper precautions have been taken to preserve the inert clone once it matures.
Of course, you're the DM in your campaign--this is just my attempt to apply logic to interpreting the rules.
Hmmm - I can see how it would be interpreted that way. Your reasoning about level loss makes perfect sense to me - I would view it that way to. Not sure that I would carry it over to gaining levels, though. Guess I'll need to look through the FAQ or query the WotC sages to be convinced which interpretation is correct.
However it works, I think this is a great idea. I hope it occurs to my players.
I think I'll have Tesner/Manzorian secretly clone the characters. Then, after they die, they will wake up in Tenser/Manzorian's lab going "what the ????"
Although how he will get a cubic inch of flesh from each character is still a mystery to me. "you all wake up, minus one toe"
I too have problems with Dragotha's power level with regards to the PCs, but that's why the Dragotha fight is so deadly. Aside from maybe Kyuss himself, Dragotha should be the deadliest NPC in the whole AP.
Of course, that's getting off the cloning issue. Cloning is really not a viable option because of the time constraints. By the time the clone's are prepared Kyuss might already be walking the world unless the PCs time it perfectly (we will most likely die 6 months from now, so...).
Here's a few other ideas that were sparked by thoughts of cloning:
Perhaps the PCs should consider making simulacrum's of themselves to send against Dragotha. That might cause him to waste resources. Maybe they can even make simulacrum's of Brazzemal and other baddies like that to send against the wyrm.
Buy a mirror of opposition and show it to Dragotha. Hey presto, two Dragotha's who hate each other's guts. Then, when the battle is over just mop up the spoils.
Contributor, RPG Superstar 2008 Top 6
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Buy a mirror of opposition and show it to Dragotha. Hey presto, two Dragotha's who hate each other's guts. Then, when the battle is over just mop up the spoils.
Well, he does have to see the reflection. So while the party is attempting to mount the mirror on the wall and activate (it does need to be mounted on a surface before speaking the command word), Dragotha closes his eyes, and tests how the mirror handles 22d10 fire at DC 44. Or just smashes it to flinders, courtesy of blindsense and tons of attacks (50% miss chance ony goes so far).
Cute, though. Just only works if you'd consider an Int 26 critter likely to fall for looking into a magical mirror.
Russ
Buy a mirror of opposition and show it to Dragotha. Hey presto, two Dragotha's who hate each other's guts. Then, when the battle is over just mop up the spoils.
Well, he does have to see the reflection. So while the party is attempting to mount the mirror on the wall and activate (it does need to be mounted on a surface before speaking the command word), Dragotha closes his eyes, and tests how the mirror handles 22d10 fire at DC 44. Or just smashes it to flinders, courtesy of blindsense and tons of attacks (50% miss chance ony goes so far).
Cute, though. Just only works if you'd consider an Int 26 critter likely to fall for looking into a magical mirror.
Russ
Spoil-sport.