They went hunting for the Lake monster! The knew where the children were being held, but decided to look into the lake monster for the heck of it XD. So, despite the strong protests from the party Fighter, ("Look how big that tooth is!!!!") they went out in the midde of night on a very dark and foggy night in 3 boats. After sitting around for a while, the Figher (also an elf), hears something swimming up from beneath one of the other boats. He tries to warn the other boat, but alas, it is too late. The montser breaks through the boat the other character (who was by far the most powerful and overpowered PC in the party) was in, bites him for almost instantly lethal damage (he was at -3 hp), and drags him down into the depths. The other PC's promptly row back to shore. Because of their actions, the lake has been closed to all activity, are down their most powerful party member, and they were given gold by Vhalantru in compensation for their loss and the warning about the presence of the monster that their comrades death has given them. Until that session, I did not know the infinite limit of PC stupidity. What do you guys think?
Holy side-quests!!!
A vision comes to my mind...
Broody - "We're gonna need a bigger boat!"
(Jaws)
Ultradan
They got gold for doing something like that?
What do you guys think?
I probably would not have had them encounter the lake monster unless they went down into the depths of the lake. I certainly wouldn't have had Vhalantru give them any money for their mistake.
That brings up a more general question: What happens when the party oversteps their level?
For example, what happens if a group decides based on rumors of the yuan ti and such to check out Shatterhorn at, say, 3rd level? When the campaign starts, the Cagewrights have already long since set up shop there. Unlike the lake monster, who has been pretty content to let folks fish on the lake, the Cagewrights aren't going to take very lightly to folks sniffing around their home.
A couple resolutions quickly come to mind: The party finds absolutely nothing incriminating (i.e., there are no guards and they don't find the secret door -- whether they should be able to find it or not). This is the safe option.
Another option is that they have to fight the guards as presented in "Strike On Shatterhorn." This is likely a TPK or, if the party somehow manages to flee, the campaign may take a very different direction. The Cagewrights might decide to assault the PCs directly, especially if the party makes a lot of noise about what they found on Shatterhorn. The Cagewrights are unlikely to want more people poking around their home base.
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That brings up a more general question: What happens when the party oversteps their level?
I guess it depends on how cruel the DM is willing to be. The PCs shouldn't know which "direction" the game is supposed to go, so punishing them for going off the wrong way seems pointless. Although, I'm sure their are DMs out there who would be creative enough to be just harsh enough to drive the PCs back "on track", so to speak.
Of course, some PCs just deserve to have the mithral kicked out of them.
That brings up a more general question: What happens when the party oversteps their level?For example, what happens if a group decides based on rumors of the yuan ti and such to check out Shatterhorn at, say, 3rd level? When the campaign starts, the Cagewrights have already long since set up shop there. Unlike the lake monster, who has been pretty content to let folks fish on the lake, the Cagewrights aren't going to take very lightly to folks sniffing around their home.
Personally, I would use the surrounding region and its natural dangers to discourage the PCs from ever GETTING to Shatterhorn at 3rd level. The encounter charts for jungle travel are laced with some very dangerous beasties, and I would simply roll random encounters every hour and throw at them whatever the dice happen to indicate, rather than using my customary DM Discretion to keep them from being overwhelmed (I also have a habit of capping random encounters at 1/day, but that can go bye-bye pretty easily). When they're traveling where I want them to go, I'm lenient; I make things challenging but do-able. When they walk into the wide world on their own, I take off the gloves. It wouldn't take long for the PCs to figure out exactly why no one ever goes there anymore, and they'll be kissing the stone of Cauldron's sheltering walls when they get back - assuming they make it back alive.
Vhalantru gave them money basically to solidify his reputation as the nicest guy around. The reason they encountered the lake monster was because: A. They picked the darkest, misty, and moonless night possible, and B. Made no attepmts to discorage any notice to them. I've taken these words from a former DM of mine to heart. "I do things realistically. If you look for trouble, you're going to find it." I rolled a percentile die for the chance of encoutering the lake monster+ a modifier for the night, and they got unlucky. Simple as that. And the whole party balked at one person's idea to investigate shatterhorn. Basically, this taught them very fast to think before they leap. As it sasy on poor Cyrus's tombstone: Be mindful of your surroundings.
That brings up a more general question: What happens when the party oversteps their level?
I suppose every DM has a different idea about this. In a case of an adventure path, if the party decides to go somewhere that is meant to be done later, the DM has a few choices:
(Using "Strike on Shatterhorn" as an example)
A. Run the encounter as written, hope the PCs figure out that they are out-matched and flee. If low-level PCs try to get to the Shatterhorn, they face the monsters as written. Hopefully they will know that they can't win and will turn back.
B. Create obstacles that are difficult to overcome, discouraging the PCs from going that way. On the way to the Shatterhorn, the low-level PCs encounter increasingly difficult encounters. Hopefully they will turn back before they encounter choice A.
C. Allow the PCs to go where they want, but they don't encounter the "adventure as written." When the low-level PCs arrive at the Shatterhorn, they encounter some appropirate CR monsters, but they don't find the entrance to the hidden temple. They will have to come back later when they find out that they missed something the first time.
D. Change the EL of the adventures, and run the adventure path in the sequence that the players choose. The low-level PCs go through the entire "Strike on Shatterhorn" adventure, but scaled-down to the appropriate EL. At the conclusion of the adventure, the PCs find clues to another part of the adventure path, which will most likely also need to be changed.
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This is kinda bizzare since in the SCAP campaign hardcover that came out a couple of months ago stated in the thrid adventure flood season Cauldron had a "flood festival" complete with a -get this- a Crater Lake Monster Hunt, a type of swimming contest where people swim to the middle of the lake and grab a model toy boat. I guess the Morkoth was on vacation or something.
C. Allow the PCs to go where they want, but they don't encounter the "adventure as written." When the low-level PCs arrive at the Shatterhorn, they encounter some appropirate CR monsters, but they don't find the entrance to the hidden temple. They will have to come back later when they find out that they missed something the first time.
Couldn't resist chiming in on this old thread...
One way to make sure the PCs can't enter the secret temple is to make the entrance magically "there/not there". You could use the same sort of magic that was used in the old Labyrinth of Madness module. In that module, certain doors, rooms, and items simply did not exist if the PCs didn't have a certain magical tatoo mark affixed to their flesh. The Cagewrights could easily have discovered a cache of magical rings crafted by the yuan-ti that do the same thing for the temple's entrance. The PCs will EACH have to kill or capture a Cagewright to get a ring, which they probably won't do until the previous chapter.
Just tossing in my 2 coppers.
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That brings up a more general question: What happens when the party oversteps their level?
Usually they die. Quickly.
My gaming world is going along even without the PCs, or any foolish adventurer, for that matter.
It's not a computer styled world, that's populated just by goblins first, then only gnolls, then trolls, then bigger nasties.
The big bad evil monsters are messing around from the start, it's their problem to steer clear of a deadly menace until they can handle it.
Kill them all! I hate it when the party does something stupid or even thinks about doing it!
In one of my groups we encountered the Leed's.... I mean Sandpoint Devil at 3rd level and the paladin wanted us to go after it, even after our DM said it was a CR 8 creature! We later killed it around 12th lv.
My group just downed the lake monster with an Arrow of Slaying in the first round, so the Drunken Morkoth is getting a new, life size and very realistic mascot/trophy.
A character in my group did have an obsession with the lake monster, but after seeing the tooth developed a healthy sense of respect for it too.
I basically ran it that the Lake Monster doesn't like sunlight. It lairs down below without any light, and sunlight bothers it. So it only comes up at night, and then only breifly if at all. Foolish Cauldronites who dink about the lake during nighttime get whats coming to them, so I made it very obvious that, for a long time, nobody goes out on the lake after dark. Combination of that tradition, and the Monster's aversion to sunlight, means the monster hasn't been seen in a long time, and daylight based events like Flood Season's Crater Lake Monster Hunt game go off without a hitch.
My group has pretty much stuck to what seems manageable but they haven't decided to chase the more obscure rumors, such as Yuan-ti at Shatterhorn or demons in the demonskar. I have been throwing encounters and events at them pretty regularly to keep them off balance. However, my players have realized I do this and that simply reacting to the world or the villain's plans is not the best way to go about things. This is the group that got excited in Expedition to the Demonweb Pits and realized only after they were battling Lolth that they should have paused to gear up. They didn't have any kind of antivenom or spells to that effect. It was awesome.
If my party goes out to overstep their level in Shackled City I do not plan to pull any punches. I certainly will not scale the encounters to suit them. In the Shatterhorn example or if, gods forbid, they set out to find the Spire of Long Shadows and find themselves hip deep in undead when they are geared up for demons. However, my players aren't stupid so they may likely scout first and realize they are about to get in over their heads before they actually do.
To refer back to the OP I most certainly CAN believe players would make that decision. I don't know how easy it would be to stir the morkoth at that stage of the game, however.
My group got a bit ahead of themselves as well. After defeating Ike in "Secrets of the Soul Pillars", one of them jumped the gun on my foreshadowing technique (vampires in the Shatterhorn) and coaxed the group (or you could say they followed blindly) into "cleaning out Shatterhorn". Our clerics had their fight undead spells at the ready. Then they met the welcoming party.
Did they run when the big guy laughed off their spells and landed three hits per round? No? Did they run when they kept getting zapped by invisible creatures they couldn't locate much less hit? No. Did they run when the giant continued to attack one PC after he had fallen? Yeah, they kind of realized the kid gloves were off and this was one foe who wasn't going to hand them XP on a silver platter. Then another went down. And a third. It was only thanks to a couple of well timed 'dimension doors' that they are alive (again) today to talk about it and shudder.