Got the three 5E Core Rule Books: Now what should I buy?

OK, so I got some Xmas money.

What should my fourth 5E book be?

I really prefer crunch over fluff, and I'm about to run a homebrew campaign. That said, do any of the 5E APs (or whatever WotC calls them) have a lot of crunch? How crunchy is the Sword Coast book? Or should I branch out into 3pp material?

Or should I just spend my Xmas money on ska shows and whiskey?

There are some good monater books out now. Jon Brazer and Frog God have some beat books. You might be surprised to find more crunch material at dtrpg HERE.

I don't have Sword Coast Adventure Guide, but the other adventures (Out of the Abyss et al) are heavy with crunch, just not enough to merit getting the boom only for the crunch. Mind you, if you are going to use a lot of elementals or the underdark or whatever, it will help a lot, depending on the adventure.

I also have a feeling that you'll see more crunch come out for 5e soon.

I'm leaning towards waiting for the Kobold Press's Tome of Beasts.

My homebrew campaign is going to be Steampunk + Dying Earth, with lots of magical, mechanical, and monstrous air travel between dozens of flying continents.

I recently discovered the campaign might be more Spelljammer than Planescape, at least mechanically, if not flavorwise.

But I do plan to include at least a taste of neogi....

There is Legendary Games and the Legendary Planey AP. I'm very eager to see what neat sci-fi elements it will add.

Just out of interest, how is everyone getting around licensing with 5th Ed stuff. Has an OGL been released.

Sword coast guide is about 5% crunch

The campaign books are 5-10% crunch - and circumstantial. I have all 3 and each brings something unique. I will say that Rage of Demons adds a huge amount of detail to the sword coast Underdark - like masses of detail and is a darn good campaign!

OK, so I got some Xmas money.

What should my fourth 5E book be?

I really prefer crunch over fluff, and I'm about to run a homebrew campaign. That said, do any of the 5E APs (or whatever WotC calls them) have a lot of crunch? How crunchy is the Sword Coast book? Or should I branch out into 3pp material?

Or should I just spend my Xmas money on ska shows and whiskey?

I trust your tastes, having seen you post for years. Let me know what you think of whatever you buy, my gaming money is tight, so I will probably only make a couple of purchases this year ( my gaming time is too spotty to justify much outlay for new material, and my wife sees what I do have (tons of 1e and 3x stuff) and shakes her head bemusedly when I want more stuff).

Thanks! :-)

I'll definitely post my thoughts and feelings when I get new stuff. :-D

Right on, thanks :-)

No new OGL has been released
I'm using the older one in my publications.
Just staying away from IP stuff, so no Slaad et al. No Melf. No using stuff too specific in the DMG especially.

Out of the Abyss has GM crunch for underdark settings, so if you're not going to use that, I'd avoid it. Princes of the Apocolypse has some good player crunch in the form of new races, but probably not enough to justify purchasing the book if you don't plan on running the campaign. That said, it does have the Goliath race and the elemental touched (the genasi), plus that one bird race.

For 3pp, I purchased The Lost Book of Spells, and so far am unimpressed. I'm playing a sorcerer, and the sorc spells have left me with "why are these spells made for sorcs; they're highly situational and not something worth casting multiple times a day." I haven't looked at it for other classes, but it just seems as f the authors (there were many) were not in a 5e mindset when they wrote the spells - they were still in a 3.X mindset. As such, it left me underwhelmed.

I've also purchased a 5e monster book, but I haven't read it yet.

No new OGL has been released

I'm using the older one in my publications.
Just staying away from IP stuff, so no Slaad et al. No Melf. No using stuff too specific in the DMG especially.

Ah, so things like level, class, duration and monster stats etc are all allowed under the 3.5 game licence. That makes sense.

How are people using terms like Advantage, bonus action, concentration, lair actions, legendary resistance, legendary actions, or even new versions of spells etc which are creations of the new game?

Or are people just not featuring things like this in their spells, monsters and adventures?

I have been very careful with 'Advantage' in my publications.

So I have used "Camouflage: The Grey Skulker has Tactical Advantage on Stealth checks when hiding".

and reworded some combat stats

"Combat:
Multi-strikes. The Grey Skulker makes two attacks with its claws.
Claw. Melee: +4 to hit. Hit: 4 (1d4 + 2) slashing damage."

The tricky bit comes with magic items and such that have Nouns in their title

In the free release they used terms like bonus actions so they may be ok. I think I will need to buy some higher level 3PP stuff to see what they are doing with legendary stuff for example.

I haven't found any of the official wizards books for 5e to be anything more than fluff and adventure for the main part. While some crunch exists, mostly it's about fleshing out the game world so far, and that links into the computer game as well.

Kobold Press has my money in terms of third party stuff coming up. I trust their reputation.

If you're after steampunk stuff, try getting your hands on the Zeitgeist AP from EN world. They have a Pathfinder version of it, which should be easy to convert over. More importantly though is the setting itself. Amazing stuff as far as I was concerned.

I believe there's a free players guide and GM guide floating around for it somewhere too. It will have lots of things you can easily transition to 5e for crunchy aspects in a steam punk game.

Out of the Abyss has GM crunch for underdark settings, so if you're not going to use that, I'd avoid it. Princes of the Apocolypse has some good player crunch in the form of new races, but probably not enough to justify purchasing the book if you don't plan on running the campaign. That said, it does have the Goliath race and the elemental touched (the genasi), plus that one bird race.

The original playtest for these races is also available here, or can be downloaded directly from here, though the stats were probably updated for Princes of the Apocalypse (I don't have it to check).

I have been very careful with 'Advantage' in my publications.

So I have used "Camouflage: The Grey Skulker has Tactical Advantage on Stealth checks when hiding".

and reworded some combat stats

"Combat:
Multi-strikes. The Grey Skulker makes two attacks with its claws.
Claw. Melee: +4 to hit. Hit: 4 (1d4 + 2) slashing damage."

The tricky bit comes with magic items and such that have Nouns in their title

In the free release they used terms like bonus actions so they may be ok. I think I will need to buy some higher level 3PP stuff to see what they are doing with legendary stuff for example.

Ah, my understanding was that the free to download rules were not part of any open game licence. They are free but not free to use by other publishers. I know Wizards are making the campaigns under licence with other publishers - it may be they are extending specific licences to them for other stuff too.

I've seen the UA stuff. I used the aarokoa (sp?) as a template for a flightless avian race that is highly influenced by the kenku and tengu, as well as the kif of CJ Cherryh's Chanur series and the Skeksis from The Dark Crystal. Basically black-robed and black-hooded black birds skulking in the dark, only their black beaks revealed from the depths of their black cowls, chittering and clicking as the creep about.

I also plan on coming up with a Neph race that's a combination of half-cloud giants and half-angelspawn. Nephos/Nephilim, using the goliaths as inspiration. Or just re-naming the goliaths.... :-P

I really wish they gave us more than 5 levels of Mystic to look at!

All of the WOTC merchandise has been for Forgotten Realms Correct? I don't think they have published any D&D neutral products of any kind.

I've seen the UA stuff. I used the aarokoa (sp?) as a template for a flightless avian race that is highly influenced by the kenku and tengu, as well as the kif of CJ Cherryh's Chanur series and the Skeksis from The Dark Crystal. Basically black-robed and black-hooded black birds skulking in the dark, only their black beaks revealed from the depths of their black cowls, chittering and clicking as the creep about.

The Aarakocra were published before the kenku (both from 1e), so I wouldn't say they're inspired from the kenku. :). But the tengu are from Japanese mythology, so both could have easily been inspired by the tengu.

I mean I used the UA write-up as an example of an avian race to base a different avian race I made up on. Mostly for the kinds of fluff to put in the beginning. I used some of the kenku wistful longing for flight as a societal touchstone, but the reason for their current flightlessness is different. I also used the elf racial template as inspiration, as there are three sub-races, all with +2 Dex, and one each of +1 Int. +1 Wis, and +1 Cha, each sub-race has its own bonus skill proficiency, and its own racial specialization ability in addition to the general racial traits of the race. In fact, one sub-race doesn't get an ability bonus, per se, but gets a bonus feat that provides a +1 to Int, since the feat did exactly what I wanted the sub-race to get, and I didn't feel the need to re-invent the wheel.

Just like I stole the 5E Goblin Boss's Redirect Attack reaction for the homebrew neogi I made up last night, replacing the neogi's slave for another goblin.

That's pretty cool, SmiloDan.

All of the WOTC merchandise has been for Forgotten Realms Correct? I don't think they have published any D&D neutral products of any kind.

The three main books are setting neutral. They have the gods of multiple pantheons, and critters in the bestiary are pretty standard fare in all settings.

Me, I'm an Eberron guy personally. I have the 3.5 setting book and all the other fluff that came out for that setting. I have enough from the material available now that I can easily run games in that setting.

All the Adventures and expansions since then have been forgotten realms though. I think it's a very clever move so they're not spreading their market thin, and it ties into the already established mmo that's free to play. They're tying markets together very nicely in fact.

I wouldn't say it is a "smart move" as they are alienating everyone who isn't a Faerun fan. Or more specifically, a Sword Coast region of Faerun fan. They are tying too much of the 5th edition tabletop into that horrid 4th edition f2p MMORPG. 5th edition book schedule is exactly an MMORPG patch cycle schedule of every 6-ish months. They are tying the books too closely to a game based on a different edition, which is why we only really get adventure books with a laughably small nonadventure material. Because adventures are easily used no matter the edition, while classes, races, items, spells and monsters require some form of work to use between editions. It is the sole thing about 5th edition I absolutely despise: the excessive influence the Neverwinter MMORPG has on the release schedule of an edition the game doesn't even use.

I fear we will never get a non-Forgotten Realms book (Sword Coast region, mostly), and I doubt we will see a new Monster Manual anytime soon. WotC has released what I feel is the best version of D&D, but it feels like they just don't really give a damn about anything outside of that god awful game. It makes me sad. I absolutely love this edition.

As for the topic at hand: I personally don't think there is anything else worth buying for this edition besides the 3 core books. All there is besides them are 3(4) adventures and an "adventurer's guide", which is basically worthless if you have no desire to play in WotC's beloved Sword Coast region of their beloved Forgotten Realms. Their hard-on for Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep, and Neverwinter make's Paizo's unhealthy obsession with Varisia and the Inner Sea region look tame in comparison. I have personally purchased the Princes of the Apocalypse adventure mainly because I love elementals and the Temple of Elemental Evil (which PoA is a terrible attempt at ToEE). Nothing else has interested me in the slightest.

But that is just me. Sorry for the rant.

In my opinion, the best place to start is with the Book of Heroic Races: Player Races 1. It's chocked full of new balanced races for 5e and has a 5-Star review. If you are interested in adventures, we have a pair that you can find right here. (full disclosure these are from my company)

From there, I would recommend checking out either Frog God Games or Legendary Games. They're both good and worth checking out.

Out of the Abyss is set in Forgotten Realms. Princes of the Apocolypse is defaulted in FR, but has information on placing it in several different campaign settings.

Out of the Abyss is set in Forgotten Realms. Princes of the Apocolypse is defaulted in FR, but has information on placing it in several different campaign settings.

I'm pretty sure all the adventures published so far have info on running them in other settings WotC have published as well. Some of it is in the free player guides on their website, some is in the books themselves I believe.

OotA does not. And there is no players supplement to go with the campaign. However, it is in the underdark, and the only major city on the surface you go to is a new addition to FR. So really, you could put it anywhere.

Heck, I almost put it in Golarion.

Sword coast book is about 85% fluff. Not worth it, IMO.

I use stat blocks from Out of the Abyss and Prince of the Apocalypse regularly. While these two books are not campaign neutral, it's not a lot of work to make it so.

I think the campaign is going to be a pretty even mix of urban, aerial, wilderness, and dungeoneering encounters.

Dice. Is there much more things to get for 5th edition anyway?

I think I just have to buckle down and start drawing maps and writing the players' gazetteer.

I think I just need a city map, continent map, and first dungeon's map.

I also have a homebrew flightless avian race, will just convert UA goliaths to "neph" (half nephros cloud giant/half nephilim), maybe a thunder and lightning-based genasi, and maybe a plant-based race, and maybe a construct-based race.

For 3pp, I purchased The Lost Book of Spells, and so far am unimpressed. I'm playing a sorcerer, and the sorc spells have left me with "why are these spells made for sorcs; they're highly situational and not something worth casting multiple times a day." I haven't looked at it for other classes, but it just seems as f the authors (there were many) were not in a 5e mindset when they wrote the spells - they were still in a 3.X mindset. As such, it left me underwhelmed.

I've also purchased a 5e monster book, but I haven't read it yet.

5th Edition Foes? Both that and the Lost Book of Spells were disappointing to me. I completely agree with you on the Lost Book of Spells...too many odd situational spells that seemed out of place for 5e. As for 5th Edition Foes, it was mostly recycled monsters and art from the Tome of Horrors and were predominately low CR. Not a big problem on its own, but since the 5e Monster Manual also is thin on mid to high CR monsters it did not fill the gap like I was hoping. Neither book was really bad...they just felt warmed over.

I backed the Tome of Beasts Kickstarter, and that looks fantastic. Gorgeous color art, new and innovative monsters, and an emphasis on the higher end of the CR scale. High hopes for this one.

Yeah, I think I'm going to wait for the Tome of Beasts in April.

In the meantime, I can homebrew anything I need beyond the Core Rulebooks.

I recommend the Elemental Evil Player’s Companion free PDF, and POD softcover for $10 at DriveThruRPG.

Or if you want to buy a whole hardcover, Princes of the Apocalypse does sound like it might be useful for you to mine for encounters and dungeons.

SmiloDan, your campaign sounds very, very interesting to me.

My players are currently in my reimagined version of the elemental plane of air. The plane is built of immense primordial elemental storms and their satellite cloud islands. Gravity is subjective, the wind is alive, and cloud-stuff is amorphous, semi-solid material (at times treated as vaporous rock, sand, mud, or quicksand — with time, you can fashion a castle in the clouds, but over time it will dissipate).

Spelljammer ships facilitate travel between the enormous storms. The PCs are currently in an escheresque floating djinn city in the eye of a godstorm. Subjective gravity makes for very interesting encounters, especially when the PCs haven't got much figured out yet ( also they know the land "beneath" the city is an enormous solid lightning storm, but they don't know it's alive yet).

For sourcebooks I'm primarily using the three 5e core books, Princes of the Apocalypse, and random 2e Planescape and Spelljammer stuff. I'm also drawing from some material from Beyond Countless Doors by Malhovic Press for 3e and Golden Hells and Shadow Planes by Kobold Press for PF, and converting on the fly as needed.

Seth White: that sounds awesome!!!

The storm under the city in the clouds is going to be "thick" enough for aquatic creatures to swim through, so the upper surface of the storm seen from the city will occasionally reveal the tentacles of donnerkraken, schools of flying fish, and cabals of ixitxachitl.

Seth White: that sounds awesome!!!

The storm under the city in the clouds is going to be "thick" enough for aquatic creatures to swim through, so the upper surface of the storm seen from the city will occasionally reveal the tentacles of donnerkraken, schools of flying fish, and cabals of ixitxachitl.

Oh very nice! Interesting mix of both water and air. Your campaign world sounds really amazing. I really like that description of the storm cloud. And sorry, but I just can't help but promote an interesting way for the PCs to explore the depths of that storm.

Your races sound very thematic, though I wonder how the plant creatures would work? Are there hanging gardens, or some kind of sea algae? I'm not picturing traditional forests in the world you described, unless you're talking sargassum? Or are there other areas of the world that would have trees and such?

My plane sprang into being when the PCs explored the Hidden Shrine of Tamoachan, and opened a hatch in the ceiling. In the original module, it was just a trap that caused a whirlwind, but didn't go anywhere. I couldn't have a hatch in a ceiling that didn't go anywhere. And it gave me a license to put some really out-there stuff in the world.

Oh nice. I like the beanstalk. So are the plant creatures pod people? :)

Also a shark jaw portal is pretty awesome. Thats why you should pick up hirelings--so you're not the first one through the shark jaw portal.

We're going to have 5 or 6 PCs (one guy moved away, but we're going to try Skyping with him), so they might not need hirelings.

When we only had 1 GM and 3 PCs, the GM gave each PC an NPC warrior henchman. That worked out REALLY well. It was for PF, of course, before we made the switch to 5E.

Buy a three-ring binder, and print out all the UA articles to put in it: bam! 100% crunch new book!

I like my SCAG book, but it's very much a player resource as opposed to DM resource. Primeval Thule is hands down the best 3rd party RPG book I've seen in a few years.

SCAG?

I really liked that intro to Thule PDF.

SCAG?

I really liked that intro to Thule PDF.

Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide. Not much in the way of "crunch". Has a few subraces, a couple subclasses, and a couple other things (I think a few spells? I can't remember).

I think it is intended for background info or for people new to the realms. It does what it was intended for I guess.

SCAG is something in between the D&D Gazetteer ans Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, for the Realms, and with a tiny bit of crunch tied to the lore.

As for myself, I think it's just perfect. Just enough information, but not too much, so you don't feel overwhelmed nor constraint by the setting material.

Yeah, I think SCAG isn't what I'm looking for. Too much fluff, and I'm going to be running a homebrew campaign, not FR or Golarion or anything like that.

I'm looking for something with a lot of crunch, or failing that, something that will help inspire my campaign, which is going to be 75%-90% "Dying Earth" and 10%-25% "Urban Steampunk."

I'm probably going to wait for the 5E version of Primeval Thule or the Tome of Beasts. Or maybe both.

Yeah, I think SCAG isn't what I'm looking for. Too much fluff, and I'm going to be running a homebrew campaign, not FR or Golarion or anything like that.

I'm looking for something with a lot of crunch, or failing that, something that will help inspire my campaign, which is going to be 75%-90% "Dying Earth" and 10%-25% "Urban Steampunk."

I'm probably going to wait for the 5E version of Primeval Thule or the Tome of Beasts. Or maybe both.

Primeval Thule is out for 5e now on rpgdrivethru. Keep in mind that is mainly fluff though too although more it has more crunch than SCAG. Most of the crunch comes in the form of new and very powerful backgrounds for the setting. Also, there is some equipment and monsters too. The fluff is nicely done and novel though...much better than the forgotten realms rehash in the SCAG. My only real criticism is that while the fluff makes a big deal of how rare and evil magic is, there is no crunch to back that up. However despite that If the idea of swords & sorcery plus Cthulhu appeal to you it is a good buy.

I'm actually going to be running a swords & sorcery plus Cthulhu-type campaign (one of the players actually requested a campaign like that because he was inspired by the Primeval Thule campaign setting).