znancekivell's page

15 pt-buy mandates optimization to survive. It chokes out character variety.

Bolded for emphasis, but THAT, so very very much that. They all end up cookie cutter classes and it's repetitive.

Agreed mates!

Personally I prefer a 25-30 buypoint model myself, and as the one most often in the Game Master's role I make this decision a reality.

To date, with Rise of the Runelords being our favorite adventure, we've encountered no issues running the game between 25-30 buypoints. It's fun, allows my players to build characters closer in line with their vision of said characters, and ensures each Player can being something valuable to the table without worrying about glaring weaknesses or an over reliance on magical items.

Thanks for the information everyone, very helpful! Still disappointed with Paizo for their lack of true support though. *shakes fist ruefully*

I was really impressed by the Hybrid Classes represented in ACG, but was disappointed with no Cleric/Wizard - Mystic Theurge class, similar to how the Magus replaced the Eldritch Knight.

Does anyone know if there has been an official Paizo supplement or otherwise a 3rd party Class that has been done to replace the Mystic Theurge as a Hybrid Class? If so, could you please direct me to where?

Thank you very much!

Hello all.

As someone who enjoys discussing Pathfinder, I wanted to learn more about different, various houserules that other groups use when playing the game. Do you do so for balance? Fun? Story elements? Or just to fix an oversight from the Developers? Discuss!

I'll start things off.

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Perhaps my favorite houserule is that of using Prestige Classes. Instead of the standard rulings, we've modified them to function as such:

A Player who chooses a Prestige Class also chooses a base class they belonged too (can be different each time) at every level, gaining all the features of that class as if they had leveled up within that class. However, the Character uses the HD, saving throws, BAB and skill ranks of their Prestige Class.

In this regard a Player doesn't have to sacrifice most elements of their base class in order to use the advanced features of a Prestige Class. Our biggest issues with PCs was that while they were interesting, flavourful and added powerful options to a Character, taking one always felt like you had to sacrifice too much of your original base class(es), and so nobody ever bothered.

As an example we currently have a Wizard-5/Cleric-5/Mystic Theurge-2 in the group who chose to level up her Wizard class at Mystic Theurge level 1 and her Cleric level at Mystic Theurge level 2, granting her all the benefits of a 6th level Wizard & Cleric. She is having an absolute blast and loves being able to play out a Mystic Theurge in style.

Another character is currently a Bard-5/Pathfinder Chronicler-7 who's effective Bard level is 12, granting him all the bonuses of his base class along with those of being a 7th level Pathfinder Chronicler. He was the most adamant about abhorring Prestige Classes, but with the new ruling thinks they add a fun layer to the game without nuking a character's stats as a whole.

Having playtested this change to Prestige Classes extensively, we've yet to come across anything that breaks or otherwise nerfs the game mechanics. We've made it a mandatory houserule that all Prestige Classes follow this ruling, new players and older players like myself really love the RP this change brings to the game.

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I'll list some other house rules we use at the table later, but for now I want to read about what other groups do with their game.

Quintessentially Me +1

I loved the description you gave, practically exactly how I would have described the process of arcane magics.

I haven't experienced any truly negative problems with 5E, in fact I keep finding that if I investigate the PHB or DMG closer I can usually find what I'm looking for.

I initially disliked the lack of Skill options for Players, as I am a big believer that a Characters Skills help define the actual character, until I started reading in the DMG about all the customization options you could alter. As I am the GM in most cases, this information was incredibly valuable too me. You can customize a Class nearly any way you can think of.

Think that a Bard being proficient with three musical instruments is overkill? Switch two of them out for different tool proficiencies or even languages. Or hell, all three of them if you aren't playing a musical-themed Bard. You could take Thieves Tools, Herbalism Kit and Vehicles (Land) in order to represent a roaming Survivor style character.

Want a Fighter with more Skill selections? Trade in one of your other Proficiencies, say Heavy Armor, in exchange for an extra skill or two. Now you can both Intimidate someone and list off the genealogical History of every dwarven artifact ever produced. In addition to having smooth Stealth moves that lets you set up tactical ambush points with your party Rogue.

The genius of 5E lies in that the game expects the Player's and Game Master's to work together and help create the character and concept you want. The basic rules in the PHB only serve as a starting point, which you can alter in order to best represent what you are trying to accomplish. This is quite different from other RPG's, yes like Pathfinder, which want you to work with the Game Master true, but only within the confines of the pre-established rules set. You are still limited exclusively to what any new Archetype or Variant you are allowed to use.

In this regards I feel that 5E actually allows for greater customization than Pathfinder. Quantity of Selection does not trump Quality of Selection in my view, which is where 5E succeeds. I admit that it took my 3.5/Pathfinder mindset some time to adjust to this new 5E mindset, but once I was in the door I was amazed at how simple the whole system is while still allowing for deep customization options.

As I am on a budget at the moment, I only picked up the two games;

The Elder Scrolls: Morrowind GotY
The Elder Scrolls: Oblivion GotY

I've been a fan of the series for a long time and only played them on the Xbox/360. Added with my Skyrim Legendary for PC and I feel like I have a more complete set. I'm waiting for the Anthology collection to go on sale, anywhere. With the modding power of the PC I've already started re-exploring those games I loved during my teenage years.

There were a lot of other games I wanted to go on sale like The Longest Journey, Dreamfall and Dreamfall Chapters, Syberia I/II, Republique Remastered, Cognition and a handful of others. Sadly though I didn't find the Steam Summer Sale all that impressive. All those games I listed? They've been on sale for much cheaper than they were listed, often five dollars less then they were listed. I'm patient though, I can wait for the price to drop in the future.

I too would like to see a Pathfinder 2.0. Though it is fairer to say that I would like to see an updated, streamlined Pathfinder which is faster to create and run than the current model.

D&D5E has sold me on It's simplicity; streamlined core mechanics such as finesse weapons and two-weapon fighting, Archetypes without crazy prerequisites, Backgrounds and deep customization of character. The limiting of Feats, which are now much more powerful and typically provide various bonuses that completely change what your character can do. I enjoy D&D5E for the ease of use and fantastic leveling mechanics (Bounded Accuracy), customizable spellcasting mechanics and action options. I do not feel that crunchy, complex mechanics (such as class abilities or feats) equals depth, but some do so to each their own.

While I thoroughly enjoy Pathfinder I find myself moving on to greener pastures with more room to roam and explore without having to constantly look at the map. I don't want Pathfinder too just hop on the bandwagon, but a simplified core mechanic would do wonders for a system is over a decade old.

I would personally enjoy seeing a Pathfinder 2.0.

Though I've spent many years with Paizo (and even more money!) as of late I find myself drawn to systems of play with less clutter, simplified rules systems and overall a more inclusive feel with room to edit and update with little effort or rocket science mathematics. While I love the brand of Pathfinder (Iconics, World, History, etc.) I feel that the 3.5 System is far too outdated, convoluted and feels entirely artificial when compared to more streamlined systems, yes, like Dungeons & Dragons Fifth Edition.

I would be interested to test out Pathfinder built on a shiny new chassis with an upgraded engine and mileage to spare.

Looking forward to getting my hands on this. Between Ultimate Psionics and Occult Adventures my love of psychic-themed characters and classes will be fulfilled. +1

I'm a bit torn to be honest. Nearly all of my experience with RPG's comes from the seat of the Game Master, I rarely engage as a Player so understand that my statements come from this perspective.

On the one hand I really liked a lot of aspects of D&D 4E that I found to be a breathe of fresh air (no class-based BAB, no random Health, simplified skill sets, etc) and on the other hand things I did not like (no basic multi-attacks, heavy reliance on two or three at-will powers, uneven distribution of powers and too few of them to boot, etc) but one thing I did like about 4E was how simple it was to pick up and play. This is one aspect of Pathfinder that I have felt has always held the system back.

While Pathfinder has great modularity it suffers from an over reliance on rules and crunch to succeed, often dragging out scenarios that should only take moments to minutes and minutes while everyone looks up the exact rule, advantage, power, trait or ability. Simply put; too much for too little. Which, don't get me wrong, means that I dislike Pathfinder. I switched over from 4E to Pathfinder because I felt that WotC just wasn't using all they could when it came to 4E, either being too simple at times or overly complicated and rigid for no reason.

Pathfinder was my answer to that problem. It has it's faults like any system made by mortal hands, but I liked it and modified what I didn't like. Houserules became the standard fare around the game table. That was many years ago though and as I find my free time becomes less and less the more I manage my time between work, family, friends and a spouse, the more I look for a system that gives me something closer to what I want, so I don't have to spend a long time "fixing" the parts I don't like.

I still buy all the "core" Pathfinder books, 'cause you never know when a rainy day might come along, but after looking at some of the beta testing and pre-production on D&D Next I admit I am intrigued. Next comes off as a cross between the SAGA system of Star Wars, D&D 3.5/4E and fresh ideas with a general purpose of keeping everything simple and fast-paced with the option to include more crunch with nothing more than simple improvisation. I won't know for sure how well I feel the system holds up until I try it out for real at the table, but I will try it.

I enjoy Pathfinder for what It is, and I'll continue to buy the core books to add to my collection. I'm still going to try out Next though, I want something less rulesies and more fast-paced role-playing goodness. Maybe I just sound like a hypocrite or a whiner, I don't know and I don't care. I want to bake my cake and eat it too. Instant recipe-like.

Thanks for the suggestions everyone, I'll take a look around and see what I can come up with. I dislike my spontaneous casters being behind the curb, especially when Sorcerer's have always been to me beings with untold, raw magical energy just waiting to burst forth. Though, admittedly, I apply a similar belief to all spontaneous classes.

Hmm, too bad. I was thinking that a Sorcerer with this ability would be comparable to a specialist Wizard, in terms of their Spells per Day. After all, if a Sorcerer with 6 SpD used just one use of Arcane Surge, they would only have 4 SpD left, exactly as a Wizard would have. Being able to pick and choose any spell doesn't mean much, if the Wizard in the party can just learn from scrolls and acquire many spells per level.

I debated adding on a -4 penalty to Resistance Checks and Concentration checks with such spells cast through Arcane Surge, and no ability to modify spells through metamagic. Perhaps that would even things out?

Also, I do not want Sorcerer's or other classes to lose what few abilities they do have, so Arcane Surge must exist in tandem to what Sorcerer abilities all ready exist.

A final idea was to add an Arcane Pool, similar to the Monk (Ki) or Magus, and let spontaneous casters cast any spell from the proper list by spending Arcane Points equal to the level they are trying to cast as a free action. This ability would still use up an appropriate Spell per Day equal to the level of the spell. This Arcane Pool (for a Sorcerer at least) would be equal to half the characters level (minimum 1) + Charisma modifier.

Any other thoughts or improvements? I appreciate the feedback.

As a fan of spontaneous spell casting, I find many of the spontaneous casters in Pathfinder (and 3.X) to be woefully underpowered and incapable compared to the more studious classes, like Wizards or Witches. Different classes, different themes I know, but the comparison still stands. Being able to spontaneously cast spells is of little boon if you can only ever cast the same few spells over and over again, with little chance of variation or improvement. To that end, I've devised a quick houserule that I plan on playtesting in my next few sessions, but I would greatly welcome the advice and knowledge of the greater online community for feedback or improvements/suggestions.

Please note that this thread is not to discuss the comparisons between a Spontaneous caster and a Studious caster, so please take such comments elsewhere. Thank you.

ARCANE SURGE:

You may cast any spell from the sorcerer/wizard list of spells, as long as you are of the appropriate level to cast spells for that level. To do so, you must sacrifice an extra Spell per Day slot when you cast the spell. For instance, casting Magic Missle through Arcane Surge would use up two of your Spells per Day for Level 1 spells, instead of one. This effect also applies to spells cast through Metamagic. For example, Maximized Magic Missle cast through Arcane Surge would use up two of your Spells per Day for Level 4 spells instead of Level 1 spells. You must be able to cast spells spontaneously to use this ability, and this ability may only be used by a class that casts spells spontaneously.

P.S: As a side note, while this ability to obviously geared to the Sorcerer, you could change some wording around and have it apply to any spontaneous spellcasting class.

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Thoughts?

When I play from the side of the Player, which is rarely as I more often act as Game Master, I enjoy playing any and all classes. As long as the concept is solid, the stats are great, and the Game Master is a wonderful individual; I can play anything.

I have a slight tendancy to lean towards Arcane/Divine classes, though I'd say I prefer Arcane/Martial classes overall. The new Magus looks very awesome-sauce and I have been using the current test-Magus as an NPC character in one of my Pathfinder games. That is one of the great benefits of being the Game Master though - I might not get to "Play" with the Players, but I can still "play" any character or concept I want/need for NPC's.

~Original Post Removed After Having More Time To Think It Through~

...

You know, after having more time to think things through, I think a simple bonus to Human ability scores is the way to go. Give Humans one extra ability score choice at first level, keep their other stats the same, and keep the game simple. A simple, but powerful alteration that gives Humans just a slight edge in picking and choosing their vocation, and one that makes them great at any class they pick up.

Thankfully we have been using the modified Human rules for just two games so far in our current Human-only setting, so this simple rework will be easily accepted by the group. Not to mention it will probably please the Feat/Skill-Junkies therein, and keep my job and Human statistics, simple and easy to use.

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This is why I appreciate the internet, and like-minded individuals. Sometimes the simplest solutions are right in front of you. Most times you don't even see the easy solution until you've already made a mistake and already gone gun-ho on the situation. I am confident enough in myself to admit when I make a mistake, and this is just one such a time. Thank you for everyone who contributed and helped me come to this decision. I think I like these forums, they seem very personable and helpful. May haps it's time to stop lurking and start posting!

On a personal side note, just have to say that I am super-excited for the upcoming Ultimate Magic and Magus class being released in a month or so. I can barely contain my glee!

Interesting. I considered that, but felt it would be to powerful if given a fuller rein. I can see dropping the +1 racial saving throw bonus, and replacing it with a simple generic once-a-day re-roll bonus instead.

As Humans do not get the benefits of the bonus feat feature in my games, what would you suggest as a replacement for Multitalented? Perhaps a bonus feat, but one tied to a specific skill, such as the Half-Elf Adaptability feature? As you gain a feat on a level-by-level basis the idea of simply letting Humans keep their more generic bonus feat seems... redundant. Any suggestions?

I could see simply keeping the Ability Score Bonuses as is, keeping the Skilled racial trait as is, and adding in the new version of Resourceful. So, the ability to choose any two ability scores of choice, two extra skills at each level, which gives Humans a slight edge, and the Resourceful trait. That sounds like a very good compromise I could live with. Luckily I run several games with very mature and sound individuals - I'll have no complaints with the changes I make thereafter.

Thank you for the replies.

As mentioned, Humans are the core of our world. The other races, such as Elves, Dwarves and the like, are more monstrous than actually heroic. As such, Humans are the mainstay staple of the world, as far as race selection goes, and so they needed a boost in that area.

As I say, with the modifications made to the core system and the focus on nearly Human-only selection, the idea of being "overpowered" or "unbalanced" isn't much of a problem when every other PC has the same stats. The only mechanical options that change are on my end, as the Game Master.

Of course, I feel the need to point out that this re-design is only applicable in my Human-only campaign setting. This re-design is disallowed outside of that setting, and for good reason. No, I am not interested in the "holy balance" that many aspire too, just want to give my Players a needed edge for this campaign setting.

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Still, I do like a good discourse in design and function. Using the ideas I've already presented, how would "you" redesign the Human to give them more edge, skill and ability to make up for the lack of racial options? Please, feel free to share your thoughts!

FORWARD:

I am aware of the myriad of threads concerning Humans, and so I apologize in advance for anyone who finds the subject dull and a dead horse. I undertook this rework as just an experimental quirk I wanted to try out in a more Human-dominated campaign, with less emphasis on other races. I have had no issues so far in my own games, which occur twice a month, but I am always ready to see outside influence on my material. I appreciate any thoughts on this rework.

If more information on my personal houserules needs explaining, simply ask and I will try to be clearer and more concise.

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REWORK:

I have been reworking the Human core race in Pathfinder, more for my own personal tastes than anything else. I am looking for suggestions and PEACH on this homebrew variant, and will provide background information on the reasoning why these changes have been made:

1 - Feat progression follows a by-level basis. You gain a feat every level, with any class-related bonus feats on top of this. Fighter's are exempt from this change, but have an extra Fighter ability built-in to make up for this. For this reason, Humans lose their extra feat racial trait.

2 - Every race receives a +2 bonus to two different ability scores, with no negative ability scores in place. Half-XXX's receive a +2 bonus to one set ability, and a +2 to any other, except for their inherit +2 bonus. Humans receive two +2 bonuses to any two ability scores of their choice. This replaces the original ability score bonus.

3 - Humans are a highly skilled, versatile people. Their Skilled racial trait is two skill points at first level, and two skill points at every level thereafter. This replaces the original Skilled trait.

4 - Humans receive the Multitalented racial trait, identical to that possessed by the Half-Elf.

5 - Humans possess the Resourceful trait: They receive a +1 racial bonus on all saving throws. Additional, once per day, a Human may re-reoll any single saving throw they just failed as a free action.

All other abilities of the Human core race remain the same, except where noted otherwise. As you see, this is just a simple rework designed to showcase Human adaptability, resourcefulness and talent. With the campaign emphasis on Humans over other, more exotic races, this rework is designed to give Humans a greater edge to make up for racial loss in areas like vision, racial save scores, resistances and so forth.