bhh39's page

I'm trying to figure out the touch ac of a barbarian with the ghost rager rage power and I'm not sure if I should subtract the ac penalties from rage and from reckless abandon from the barbarian's touch ac or just from his normal ac. Any opinions appreciated.

As you say hitting is not much of an issue, but misfire is a pain, so I would recommend a +1 reliable weapon. If that doesn't reduce misfire to 0 save up for a +1 greater reliable weapon. After that just add on additional damage enhancements like corrosive and holy.

With respect to DR, just get the clustered shots feat and then DR won't really bother you.

http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/general-feats/noble-scion

good choice at level 1. Lets you use cha instead of dex for initiative if you are a scion of war.

dotting

There is a line in what I believe is the penultimate paragraph describing the Grigori encounter that a sequence of opposed diplomacy checks is sufficient to discredit Grigori in the eyes of the populace.

I think a good balance is to take 5 levels of Gunslinger then fighter, preferably weapon master. You get most of the important stuff, particularly dex to damage, and then you get a bunch of feats and fighter only goodies.

can I get a link to Enlightened Warrior, can't seem to find it on d20pfsrd

wondering what goodies the champion of irori gets from the monk side of things?

http://paizo.com/paizo/faq/v5748nruor1fm#v5748eaic9n8m

says that caster level is not a requirement. You can of course house rule what you like, but your solution seems to break down when you're talking about other types of crafting, such as metamagic rods which are all CL 17.

also death from above doesn't work the way you think it does.

Whenever you charge an opponent from higher ground, or from above while flying, you gain a +5 bonus on attack rolls in place of the bonuses from charging and being on higher ground.

wondering if Eidolon's can take leadership since they don't have Character level seven...

Screw it! Far too cool for silly things like rules to apply

*cackles evily*

I kind of feel that the role Biobeast describes is probably that of the spymaster than the royal assassin given both the job description and the fact that the royal assassin can only use physical stats, Dex or Str, whereas it is possible for the spy master to use Int.

That being said I think using a scorpion is probably a little bit much. On the other hand I'm thinking of whether a summoner's Eidolon could fill the role. Given the generally decent mental stats and the ability to speak I'm leaning on the side of it being reasonable. Thoughts?

I too would appreciate clarification on exactly how falcata, brass knuckles, gauntlet, spiked gauntlets etc. work and what is allowed.

Gignere wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

STR Ranger wrote:

Get Quicken SLA so you can use touch of rage on yourself.

Awesome.

This isn't actually legal by RAW. You have to know what level the spell is that your spell like ability is casting in order to know the required level for quicken spell like ability and touch of rage doesn't have a level.

I think one of the devs chimed in that for SLA that don't list out the spell level a good guideline is to assume the same level spell accessible by the class in question at that level.

So touch of rage is a first level spell since an orc bloodline sorcerer gets it at level 1.

Also advice for the OP, I would skip the extra LoH feats (at least one of them) and pick up something else unless you're the only healer in the group.

I think Cornugon smash at third level would really help. First attack and shaken on the enemy is crazy good.

The technicality preventing me from taking Quicken SLA in the minds of many is that Touch of Rage doesn't actually mimic an existing spell. Sticking to RAW its a valid point, but I take issue with 1) the fact that monsters can't quicken an inherent power unless it exists in some human's spellbook and 2) players are allowed to create new spells on their own, so who's to say it doesn't exist?

As mentioned earlier, the extra Lay on Hands feats are intended not just to give me additional self-heals, but also to give me additional Smites since Oath of Vengeance allows one to be exchanged for the other. And FWIW, we are usually pretty light on healing in my group - nobody ever wants to play a cleric.

Cleric domains, sorcerer bloodlines, wizard schools, and certain other class features give spell-like abilities that aren't based on spells. What's the effective spell level for these abilities?

The effective spell level for these spell-like abilities is equal to the highest-level spell that a character of that class could normally cast at the level the ability is gained.

For example, a 1st-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental ray as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 1's highest-level spell available is 1st, that spell-like ability counts as a 1st-level spell. A 9th-level elemental bloodline sorcerer has elemental blast as a spell-like ability. Because a sorcerer 9's highest-level spell available is 4th, that spell-like ability counts as a 4th-level spell.

—Sean K Reynolds, 07/07/11 Back to Top

Seems to be an official source that gives a pretty clear indications that SLA's do actually count as spells.

kind of off topic but since the sohei came up is there a consensus on what the "Mounted Combat feats" are?

also note that you qualify for improved grapple normally, so you might consider using your get out of prereqs free feat at second level for something else, or possibly taking greater grapple at level 9 and using the tenth level feat for something you couldn't normally get.

keep in mind the fact that the Jade Regent Campaign actually caps out at about level 15, so really you just have to fill 3 feat slots, 4 if you count bonus feats...

I'm not exactly sure what the answer to the first faq means, but I think it is saying that:

1. You don't get get your itterative attacks at the end of a charge if you have pounce and are mounted, because you aren't charging.

2. Even if you could get your itterativ attacks at the end of a charge while mounted, only the first of these would get extra damage.

A corner case that comes to mind is the case where you mange to get itterative attacks and are TWF... Would you get extra damage on your first off hand attack?

style feats mostly get talked about in the context of monks using them, but as a thought exercise I stated up a pretty ridiculous ninja that employs greater invisibility and snake fang to incredible effect.

50% chance for a miss and attack of opportunity before even considering AC? Yes Please!

Even item crafters should usually be specialists. The +5 to the spellcraft dc doesn't hurt too much; any wizard worth his salt will have a great spellcraft check. Even if it is an issue, a wizard can still use spells from his opposition schools, it just takes two slots.

Trinam wrote:

Oh, no.

There are people who work under an 'AM BARBARIAN' build, but the theory behind AM BARBARIAN is really simple.

-Get flying mount.

-Get a Lance and Spirited Charge.

-Get Greater Beast Totem.

-RAGELANCEPOUNCE.

The standard build also uses Superstition and Spell Sunder to screw over spellcasting.

This is a case of the name coming first and then being related to the theory, rather than drawn from it.

More pounce mount hocus pocus. Reread the mounted combat section.

"If your mount charges, you also take the AC penalty associated with a charge. If you attack at the end of the charge, you receive the bonus gained from the charge. When charging on horseback, you deal double damage with a lance."

Your mount is charging with your character getting the +2/-2 and the added lance bonus. Your character has to charge to pounce. That means you aren't charging on horseback, your horse is. Nice try.

Benefit: When mounted and using the charge action, you deal double damage with a melee weapon (or triple damage with a lance).

So it is clear that for spirited charge you are taking the charge action and that doing so lets you deal triple damage. Since spirited charge explicitly says that you are taking the charge action pounce clearly applies.

A few very powerful monsters are vulnerable only to epic weapons—that is, magic weapons with at least a +6 enhancement bonus. Such creatures’ natural weapons are also treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

from the universal monster rules. It would seem that a +6 weapon is all that is needed, and if a +5 furious weapon is a +7 weapon in the hands of a raging barbarian...

OK, I only managed the first 20 pages of this thread before my head exploded but I have a question for Trinam.

Assuming that you dont intend to use Leadership or Mounted Comabt (and certainly dont intend to ride around on some demented half elf mutant) how effective is this character as a Beast Totem pouncing barbarian.

In particular is it viable at lower levels? I am assuming you can enter and leave rages as a free action to get multiple sunders but that means you have to have a way to be immune to fatigue. You dont get that naturally until level 17. You can avoid it once with the Trait but how else do you do it in combat?

What sort of feat progression would you suggest for such a character if you actually wanted to play something like it in a real game rather than as a thought experiemnt.

an example minimal silliness build that is actually playable:

Human(heart of the fields) Barbarian (mounted fury)

H: Raging Vitality
1: Power Attack
2: Beast Totem, Lesser
3:Mounted Combat
4:Ferocious Mount
5: Boon Companion
6:Beast Totem
7:Ride By Attack
8: Furious Mount Greater
9: Spirited Charge
10:Beast Totem Greater

gets you rage lance pounce by level 10. Ideally you would have spell sunder shenanigans already but it isn't the end of the world to wait until level 13 or so for spell sunder. I also want to point out that you can rage cycle at level one with allnight, which makes you immune to the effects of fatigue for 8 hours and then makes you exhausted. Use heart of the fields to ignore exhausted and take another dose of allnight for 16 hours per day of rage cycling.

When wielded by a raging barbarian, a furious weapon has an enhancement bonus of +2 better than normal. Does this mean that furious weapons get around the conventional +5 cap and if so does this also mean that they can overcome DR/epic?

reach quickened touch of gracelessness and reach calcific touch. does a minimum of 4 dex damage per round and very likely more. It will take at most two rounds to do 8 dex damage, which will reduce the dragon to dex 0 and thanks to calcific touch petrify it.

maximize both and you're guaranteed to petrify the dragon in one round.

I kinda see master of many styles as a great way to get crane riposte at 2nd level, but beyond level 2 there isn't a huge reason to take more levels of monk, as opposed to something else with full BAB and other goodies. The main reason for this is that by going straight monk you give up many goodies from other classes and the benefits from the combat styles just aren't that great

rather flurry of blows is a full attack but it is not every full attack flurry of blows, even for a monk. a normal monk could make a regular full attack with a shortsword, or other non-monk weapon, but couldn't spend a ki point on it. same thing with a master of many styles, except the option to flurry has been removed.

that being said it wouldn't be the worst thing in the world to make a houserule letting the monk do this

well if we are being technical that ability still exists meaning whenever a monk flurries he can spend a point to get an extra attack still exists, since master of many styles doesn't change the ki pool.

It's just that "whenever a monk flurries" now never occurs since he can't flurry.

can't imagine why this is an important distinction but there it is

haven't done the math but I'm thinking a beasmorph/vivisectionist into Master Chymist LANCEPOUNCE can outdamage RAGELANCEPOUNCE. You get ridiculous strength due to grand mutagen, sneak attack due to vivisectionist, and pounce from beastmorph. The rest is gravy

Skyth wrote:

They teleport in so no chance to detect them before hand.

How, precisely, are you teleporting in hundreds of individuals in a single round?

magically

*joke*

Wouldn't AM BARBARIAN see the horde of wizards? If AM BARBARIAN kills 5 wizards, does that cause the wizards leadership score drop by 5 instantly thus causing him to lose close to 50+ followers and 2 cohort levels? Though i guess it could be argued that putting 135 people into the path of a casty hating barbarian isn't killing them but merely putting them in an unfavorable circumstance.

AM HUNDREDS OF CASTYS. AM TOO TEMPTING A TARGET.

Wouldn't AM BARBARIAN see the horde of wizards? If AM BARBARIAN kills 5 wizards, does that cause the wizards leadership score drop by 5 instantly thus causing him to lose close to 50+ followers and 2 cohort levels? Though i guess it could be argued that putting 135 people into the path of a casty hating barbarian isn't killing them but merely putting them in an unfavorable circumstance.

It appears that the penalty is only cumulative for dead cohorts, since the note indicating that the penalty is cumulative is absent from the follower table. Additionally a level 20 sorcerer will have a much higher leadership score than 25, but exactly how high doesn't really matter sice the last line on the leadership table is 25 or more.

Also there is the question of whether the leader "caused" the death of the follower, but if it isn't cumulative it doesn't matter.

It occurs to me that a metamagic rod of reach(lesser) costs 3000 gp so 600k for 200 followers they're firing magic missiles from long range. Uneconomical? Yes. Worth it to kill this menace carrying around the wealth by level of hundreds of wizards? Totally.

as an exercise sorcerer 20 have a leadership score of 25. say all followers are tattooed sorcerer elves who took spell penetration as a first level feat and greater spell penetration at 3rd and have their varisian tattoo for evocation

135 first level with a bonus to beat SR of +6
13 second level with a bonus to beat SR of +7
7 third level with a bonus to beat SR of +9

damage= 135*3.5*.35+13*7*.4+7*7*.5=226.27

so bring along your twin brother and his followers and all magic missile AM BARBARIAN at the same time

doesn't solve the seeing barbarian to target him but a casty can dream

Skyth wrote:

ShadowcatX wrote:

Skyth wrote:

600+ magic missile spells in one turn should do in the barbarian as well.

I'm sure it would. From what, the minions you gained with leadership? (If so, that's pretty clever actually. Now you just have to stay alive to do it.)

He'd have to get through the minions and bound creatures to get to the main caster. He'd kill...5 on the charge assuming he went first? (Even assuming he can get a charge and assuming that pounce works with lance).

Give the character a week, and I probably could hit him with over 1400 magic missiles in one round. I'll actually have to stat it out, but a rough guess at the character has him generating almost 3 million gp per day. Can get plenty of equipment/called monsters/etc with that. Total RAW abuse, but on par with a barbarian that doesn't need to sleep.

Except.

They can't hit what they can't see.
The *whole point* of the build is you find out AM BARBARIAN is there when you see AM BARBARIAN flying away with your heart on his Observed State.

In some ways, the way he kills you while unexpected is actually rather merciful (instant death); and maybe that's how you beat AM BARBARIAN:
He can't show mercy.
RAGELANCEPOUNCE is a merciful death
ergo, he can't do it...or have his brain short out like a 60's robot.

Damn, I just said how 'you' beat him, and now how 'we' beat him.
I has been assimilated.

There is also the point that AM BARBARIAN has SR 20 from his scarab of protection, meaning that your level 1 castys need to roll relatively well to beat his SR even if you optimize your followers for beating SR with magic missile

Edit: Damn you barbarians charging from too far away to see.

Important Question for AM BARBARIAN: My witch has like +ridiculous Bluff. She exclaims to AM as he charges (talking out of turn is a free action, "I am not a spellcaster.", and rolls her ridiculous Bluff score (less than 50 seconds of talking too!). What do?

Do I survive?

from the bluff skill under actions:

Deceive Someone: Attempting to deceive someone takes at least 1 round, but can possibly take longer if the lie is elaborate (as determined by the GM on a case-by-case basis).

LazarX wrote:

Artemis Moonstar wrote:

Cheapy wrote:

Strange, I always thought prepared casters got shafted by mm.

Admittedly I never really did look at MM in Pathfinder. I just never really liked the idea of giving up a usage of a spell for a powered up lower level spell. I just always found a use for the higher levels spells I picked.

It's situational. Try this one; At 10th level, what second level spell beats an intensified shocking gasp?

Create Pit!

Invisibility!

Is there a system for figuring out xp for many easy enemies other than just adding up the xp for many low CR encounters?

I ask because in tonight's session our party of 4 PC's at level 5 managed to defeat an army of 40 gnolls with a well placed fireball and a castings of glitterdust. All in all it was a rather easy fight, but doing the math for 40 CR1 opponents it looks like each of us took home 4000 xp each, the same amount we would have received from a CR11 encounter. This seems odd since the encounter was much easier than a CR11.

Beckman wrote:

Hobbun wrote:

Looked over the Sorcerer/Wizard spells and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a Pathfinder equivalent (or at least close) to the orb spells.

I really hope they never print spells like that... They were the biggest mistake of D&D 3.5... They were off the hook power-level wise. Many of them bypassed spell resistance.. Many of them bypassed Saving Throws, too...

So what you mean is, I want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?

The orbs could use a conversion; make them higher level, but keep them the way they were...

The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.

Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.

I'm pretty sure I'm not misreading the feat, since it says character level not all class levels. Further it says, for the purposes of this power, thus it only refers to your arcane bond bloodline power not the class feature from the wizard class. This might not be what designers intended but it seems pretty clear, at least to me, that it is in fact what the feat says.

Just as an aside, it doesn't seem like having a familiar like that of a wizard 18 at level 10 is that horrible. The only thing that familiars get via advancement is natural armor, intelligence, and random things like scry on familiar and spell resistance. These are nice and make your familiar more survivable, but it doesn't seem close to being broken when you consider the fact that you've sunk 2 feats and a charisma score of 13 into being able to pull it off.

I'm not sure I follow your point. The familiar rules say that you stack the levels from all classes which grant a familiar. In the case of a wizard 10 with Eldritch Heritage you have ten levels of wizard granting you a familiar. According to the wording of the feat, you also have 8 levels of sorcerer which grant a familiar via arcane bond. Since these are two different classes which both grant a familiar they should stack, just as a wiz5/sorc5 would have level 10 familiar.

Thus our wizard would have 18 levels in classes that grant familiars and thus would have a familiar that is equivalent of a level 18 wizard without the feat.

The Chort wrote:

Where does it say that in the rules? All I've found is this:

Quote:

Familiar Ability Descriptions: All familiars have special abilities (or impart abilities to their masters) depending on the master's combined level in classes that grant familiars, as shown on the table below. The abilities are cumulative.

So by this wording, I would assume a Wizard with Elritch Heritage (Arcane) would be able to stack levels from both classes. I know that's a stupid, cheesy loophole, but where by RAW is it forbidden?

You answered your own question.

What class is granting levels for the wizard's familiar? Wizard. What class is granting class levels for a Eldritch Bloodline Familiar? Oh, can't be wizard, that class is already in the count. You can't count the same class levels twice, nothing in the familiar ability allows you to count the same class twice for a familiar, nor does the feat. Therefore, you can only stack class levels that grant familiar.

That's why I stated above, a muticlass wizard could take this feat and keep his familiar at his Wizard + (all other non familiar class levels - 2) + (All other familiar class levels).

Example, a normal Wizard 4/Witch 4/Fighter 8 would normally have an 8th level familiar (4 wizard and 4 witch, as those are the only classes granting familiar). If he takes Eldritch Bloodline and takes familiar, then his non-familiar class levels gain a familiar to them (it doesn't grant a second familiar, since the rules for familiar's say class level's combine). It doesn't make the wizard class levels count as two class levels either. All it does is let you make your familiar as if you had familiar class levels for all levels minus 2.

So our Wiz 4/Witch 4/Fighter 8 would have a familiar level 16.

Except the wording of the feat says "For purposes of using that power, treat your sorcerer level as equal to your character level – 2, even if you have levels in sorcerer"

Thus the class levels for your familiar would be your wizard level and your sorcerer level. According to the feat your sorcerer level is your character level-2.

mdt wrote:

bhh39 wrote:

If a wizard can use Eldritch Heritage to boost the level of his familiar the question arises what if anything happens once the familiar level gets to 21. Do we use the epic level handbook rules from 3.5?? If we do, do familiars get familiar spell for free??

Your familiar can't be higher than your HD, no matter what.

Where it would be useful is if you had a Wizard/Fighter who went into Eldritch Knight. His familiar stops growing from his wizards levels. However, it keeps growing if he takes this feat. He could have it at Wizard Level + (Fighter + EK - 2). At least that's how I'd rule it, or one weak familiar and one strong familiar.

As to the bonded weapon. Not sure how that would work for a non-wizard, I would just rule that if they have a wizard's spell book on them, they can cast one spell per day from it, as if a wizard of their level.

Where does it say that in the rules? All I've found is this:

Quote:

Familiar Ability Descriptions: All familiars have special abilities (or impart abilities to their masters) depending on the master's combined level in classes that grant familiars, as shown on the table below. The abilities are cumulative.

So by this wording, I would assume a Wizard with Elritch Heritage (Arcane) would be able to stack levels from both classes. I know that's a stupid, cheesy loophole, but where by RAW is it forbidden?

In fact it seems like the possibility of having a familiar with more hd than yourself is explicitly permitted. From the srd:

Hit Dice: For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master's character level or the familiar's normal HD total, whichever is higher.

If a wizard can use Eldritch Heritage to boost the level of his familiar the question arises what if anything happens once the familiar level gets to 21. Do we use the epic level handbook rules from 3.5?? If we do, do familiars get familiar spell for free??

Don't forget that with a single level of ranger you also get the ability to use a wand of gravity bow so each arrow will do 2d6, and a CL1 wand will last a minute, which is about as long as most fights take. Take a second level of ranger and snag a bonus feat without meeting the prerequisites.

As a side note, this thread talks a lot about what a fighter can do, but just thinking of zen archery monk 3/ ranger 2 gives me shivers. 3 bonus feats, weapon focus, perfect strike, and point blank master. That is more feats than the fighter and you get class features, like favored enemy and the ability to use ranger wands, to boot.

I have a first level wizard ready to play if that is still possible. 18815-1. The email is bhh39@cornell.edu

PeteZero wrote:

As I am far away from any PFS group but really want to play again (played Frozen Fingers of Midnight in 2008), I am looking for an online PFS group which plays by PbP to join. Hope there is anything going on.

I'm looking for the same thing.

I am as well.