Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic (OGL)

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Pathfinder Roleplaying Game: Ultimate Magic (OGL)
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Raise your character to the pinnacle of magical might with Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Magic! Within this book, secrets arcane and divine lie ready to burst into life at the hands of all the spellcasting classes in the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. In addition to the brand-new magus class—a master of both arcane magic and martial prowess—you'll also find a whole new system for spellcasting, rules for spell duels and other magical specialities, and pages upon pages of new spells, feats, and more. Because when it comes to magic, why settle for less than absolute power?

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Magic is a must-have companion volume to the Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Core Rulebook. This imaginitive tabletop game builds on more than 10 years of system development and an Open Playtest featuring more than 50,000 gamers to create a cutting-edge RPG experience that brings the all-time best-selling set of fantasy rules into the new millennium.

Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Ultimate Magic includes:

  • The magus, a new base class combining deadly arcane magic with the skills and weapons of a trained warrior.
  • Words of power, an innovative and flexible new spellcasting system.
  • New options for dedicated casters, such as alchemist discoveries, alternative uses for channeled energy, druid companions, sorcerer bloodlines, eidolon abilities, witch hexes, and oracle mysteries.
  • Additional feats and magical abilities for martially oriented casters, including monk ki tricks, inquisitor archetypes, and ranger traps.
  • New magical conditions called spellblihgts, as well as systems for crafting constructs, binding outsiders, and spell-dueling.
  • More than 100 new spells, plus detailed guidelines for designing your own.
  • ... and much, much more!

ISBN-13: 978-1-60125-299-9

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Last Updated - 03/30/2012

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More Options ! more magic, ... MORE !

5/5

flavorful options, powerful options
classes, archetypes, feats...

while 100% of the boook might not please you, you want this book.

having the choice to build flavorful PC with the right options is priceless (and for this book, you have...)


ultimate magic, rrrrright!!


this book owes its selling rate for the Magus.

lazy feats, some options are good, some others just dotn´
Archetypes: the best Bladebound Magus
worst of all: Trapper Ranger

Spellblights: interesting but too complex for a fumble system
Spellword Casting: at the beginning it looks very nice, then i read it and... is the same spell restriction and opportunities at a expensive cost of time

feats: ok those are feats

Magic spellbooks: why you dont just paraphrase some words concerning about how to protect the spellbooks with some spells and thats all. maybe a feat or two for scaling this option, besides the spellbooks looks greats.

spells: again, the magus options are great.

my advice for you: buy the book, cut the pages concerned for magus, and dump the rest or Download the pdf at any place you can, print the magus and drop the rest


2/5

While I do not think that either this or Ultimate Combat deserve to be called "Ultimate" anything books (maybe Ultimate Monk), I do think that Ultimate Magic does better cover it's proported theme. In my opinion, Inner Sea Magic did a better job overall, but is sadly setting specific.

On th Divine Side (minus Paladin) this book is extremely, extremely limited. There are a few gems, but most are either placed really far out of reach, or just not worth what you give up for them, and might as well not have been there at all rather than tease.

On the Arcane side, this book is full of material, but severely lacking as well. There is an assortment of random material that just seems like it was left over from other books and tossed in here. The only magical items in this book (exceptionally noticable on the Divine Magic side) are Wizard's Spellbooks, (which of the top of my head, only 3 Classes in the entire game will actually have any use for beyond the sell price).

There are a lot of (would be) nice Feats, except they are specific to a Class, or build, or whose names imply it would be great for somone else besides who it is actually intended. Over all, there are a lot of options, but actually very slim pickings. Overall, it leaves a lot of classes and build out in the cold.

Whereas Ultimate Combat is at best Ultimate Monk, Ultimate Magic is closest to being more appropriate as Ultimate Wizard/Inquisitor, (arguably Classes that did not need more).


mediocre at best

3/5

This book is no Complete Divine or Complete Arcance. I mostl play a cleric and this book does little for me personally.

Yeah, its got some interesting tweaks, but for the price, i dobn't think thy are worth it.

So far I've used 1 feat and the spells from this book. Nothing else. Should've bought the APG.


A good product to add to your collection!

5/5

After reading through Ultimate Magic, some new mechanics offered in this book can add flavor and fun to an adventure.

The Magus appears to be a class that is fun to play as. You are able to swipe at your enemies with your sword in one hand and with magic in the other.

Spellblights are interesting. These curses can hinder the spellcasters in different ways.

One chapter that I especially liked was the words of power. The concept was a little hard to wrap around but when you understand it fun ensues. I tried out a couple of words of power in an adventure and it was pretty fun. There was a point where I fought a spellcaster who also had words of power and it felt like the two were having a very destructive debate ha!

Overall I enjoyed this product and I recommend this to everybody!


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Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Estrosiath wrote:
Beckman wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

Looked over the Sorcerer/Wizard spells and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a Pathfinder equivalent (or at least close) to the orb spells.

I really hope they never print spells like that... They were the biggest mistake of D&D 3.5... They were off the hook power-level wise. Many of them bypassed spell resistance.. Many of them bypassed Saving Throws, too...

So what you mean is, I want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?

The orbs could use a conversion; make them higher level, but keep them the way they were...

We'd better get rid of incorporeal, since it's not fair to those poor monks.

And better get rid of damage reduction on sneak attack immune critters. Don't want the rogue to cry.

There are already lots of 'anti-evasion' spells. There are lots of 'SR ignoring spells. That you choose to assign movites to others in saying they 'want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?' would seem to say more about you than them.

Liberty's Edge

Estrosiath wrote:
Beckman wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

Looked over the Sorcerer/Wizard spells and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a Pathfinder equivalent (or at least close) to the orb spells.

I really hope they never print spells like that... They were the biggest mistake of D&D 3.5... They were off the hook power-level wise. Many of them bypassed spell resistance.. Many of them bypassed Saving Throws, too...

So what you mean is, I want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?

The orbs could use a conversion; make them higher level, but keep them the way they were...

The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.

Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.


Matthew Morris wrote:
Estrosiath wrote:
Beckman wrote:
Hobbun wrote:

Looked over the Sorcerer/Wizard spells and was a bit disappointed there wasn’t a Pathfinder equivalent (or at least close) to the orb spells.

I really hope they never print spells like that... They were the biggest mistake of D&D 3.5... They were off the hook power-level wise. Many of them bypassed spell resistance.. Many of them bypassed Saving Throws, too...

So what you mean is, I want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?

The orbs could use a conversion; make them higher level, but keep them the way they were...

We'd better get rid of incorporeal, since it's not fair to those poor monks.

And better get rid of damage reduction on sneak attack immune critters. Don't want the rogue to cry.

There are already lots of 'anti-evasion' spells. There are lots of 'SR ignoring spells. That you choose to assign movites to others in saying they 'want wizards to get slaughtered by anything with evasion, SR or high saving throws, right?' would seem to say more about you than them.

For me, it's fairly simple really.

Is it overpowered for a single target spell to deal some kind of energy damage, while requiring a ranged touch attack (one of the ACs, I hasten to add, that is likely to be fairly high for the rogue), not allowing a save and ignoring SR? I don't think so.
Scorching ray already does that, except for the "ignore SR" part. Make it a 3rd level spell with a similar damage that ignores SR and call it a day. That's already supposedly unfair to most rogues, since they are not known for their spell resistance, and cannot use evasion against it, but I've yet to see rogue players in arms about it.
As I said, they probably needed to be higher level, but casting a spell that requires any kind of "normal" attack roll (ie: not one using the CL as attack modifier or using the casting stat as a bonus) is always a big risk for a wizard. I think that should be enough.

Dark Archive

Thierry4000 wrote:

I'm a trapaholic :-) Anything new on traps? I read the ranger gets a trapmaking ability? New spells to handle magic traps, new abilities, more characters get some sort of trapfinding ability?

Still waiting for my hardcopy, it hasn't reached the Netherlands yet.

Yeah the ranger gets some trap options now.


bhh39 wrote:


The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.

Fireball was only an example that I used. My point is ‘most’ damaging spells have the descriptor “Reflex Half”. And sorry, the “you just don’t throw damaging spells at those sort of characters” does not fly for me. If your specialty is damaging spells and you have a low amount of spells available (not everyone is a Wizard), then you don’t have much choice in the matter.

bhh39 wrote:


Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.

Oh come now. Now you are just overreacting a bit there. We are talking about one spell type (orbs). At least 90% of the damage spells (or any reflex save spell) you are still going to have plenty opportunities to use your evasion abilities.

Besides, it isn’t as if the orbs are auto hits, anyways. And even though it’s only against a touch AC, characters who have the evasion feats and high reflex saves ‘usually’ are the same ones who have high touch AC’s, as well. Nevermind a single class Wizard/Sorcerer is not going to have that high of a bonus to hit. So the orb spells far ‘invalidates’ those abilities.


Hobbun wrote:
bhh39 wrote:


The solution is to not throw damaging spells at those sort of characters. You have so many options as a wizard that having to pick and choose who you throw fireballs at isn't the end of the world.

Fireball was only an example that I used. My point is ‘most’ damaging spells have the descriptor “Reflex Half”. And sorry, the “you just don’t throw damaging spells at those sort of characters” does not fly for me. If your specialty is damaging spells and you have a low amount of spells available (not everyone is a Wizard), then you don’t have much choice in the matter.

bhh39 wrote:


Further, that kind of spell just invalidates a bunch of class features that other characters invest in. I know if I was playing a rogue and have a bunch of class features and abilities based on avoiding getting blasted in the face I would feel cheated if the wizard could just blast me in the face anyway, albeit with an orb instead of a fireball.

Oh come now. Now you are just overreacting a bit there. We are talking about one spell type (orbs). At least 90% of the damage spells (or any reflex save spell) you are still going to have plenty opportunities to use your evasion abilities.

Besides, it isn’t as if the orbs are auto hits, anyways. And even though it’s only against a touch AC, characters who have the evasion feats and high reflex saves ‘usually’ are the same ones who have high touch AC’s, as well. Nevermind a single class Wizard/Sorcerer is not going to have that high of a bonus to hit. So the orb spells far ‘invalidates’ those abilities.

What does any of this have to do with spoilers?

Focus people, focus. :)


So one thing I noticed is that for the Witch patron Ancestors, the final spell 'Choose Fate' is not described anywhere in UM, the APG or Core. Wondering if this was something taken out at the last minute or not.


I have some questions I'm hoping someone might know a thing or two about.

Wizard Arch types - What are they?

Wizard toys - anything jump out as super cool?

Arcane Discoveries... how do they work?

Thanks.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Still no e-mail.

Sara Marie, why do you hate me so????

;-)


E I wrote:
So one thing I noticed is that for the Witch patron Ancestors, the final spell 'Choose Fate' is not described anywhere in UM, the APG or Core. Wondering if this was something taken out at the last minute or not.

Yes. I thought about starting an errata thread but I wasn't sure I wanted to spoil the fun. Most people haven't even gotten the pdf's yet and no one have gotten their hardcovers.

Contributor

The black raven wrote:

This book is so filled with possibilities that it boggles the mind. Heck, even Rangers making traps.

I do have a major gripe though : there are zero new cantrips/orisons. Come to think of it, there have been very few cantrip/orisons in PFRPG products except for the CRB.
The zero-level spells are wonderful for giving a real magical flavor to characters at all level and can be quite useful for low-level casters, multi-class characters and Rogues with the minor magic talent. Also they reward ingenuity rather than raw power.
I am quite disappointed that no-one thought that they were worth the effort to include in the ultimate book about magic in the PFRPG system :-(

There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).


So anything else good for summoners? I think I am going to have to get a subscription before the next book as much as I love to buy local.


Seeker of skybreak wrote:
E I wrote:
So one thing I noticed is that for the Witch patron Ancestors, the final spell 'Choose Fate' is not described anywhere in UM, the APG or Core. Wondering if this was something taken out at the last minute or not.
Yes. I thought about starting an errata thread but I wasn't sure I wanted to spoil the fun. Most people haven't even gotten the pdf's yet and no one have gotten their hardcovers.

I don't see why not. You just let people know there's spoilers.

Scarab Sages

Hargert wrote:
So anything else good for summoners? I think I am going to have to get a subscription before the next book as much as I love to buy local.

New evolutions, 4 new archetypes as mentioned, plus a cool segment on how to represent various monsters as eidolons.

I'm still waiting to see what kind of stuff people will do with Crossblooded, Empyreal, and Sage sorcs.

The first let's you cherry pick features from two bloodlines, including getting both arcana, though at a price.

The second two change the Sorcs primary stat to Wis and Int, respectively.

Interesting stuff for sure.


Hobbun wrote:


Fireball was only an example that I used. My point is ‘most’ damaging spells have the descriptor “Reflex Half”. And sorry, the “you just don’t throw damaging spells at those sort of characters” does not fly for me. If your specialty is damaging spells and you have a low amount of spells available (not everyone is a Wizard), then you don’t have much choice in the matter.

Yes, I agree that most damaging spells are reflex: half. I disagree that this should be changed. It's power-creep to do so. I agree that it would make wizards and sorcerers 'better'. However, I don't think that Rogues other melee classes scale the same way with new options as spellcasting classes do. It's MUCH easier for a sorcerer to take a different known spell than a fighter to take a different feat.

I play nothing but spellcasters... I very, very rarely play melee characters. Bypassing SR is not cool. Spells without saves in general are not cool.. I think you're in very dangerous territory when you make spells like that.

I really do not buy that you need to bypass SR now. SR has changed drastically between 3.5 and Pathfinder. The higher CR monsters have SR that you can pass about 50% of the time. It's just like rolling to hit.

If you compare that most monsters do not have evasion.. You beat SR half the time and the guy makes his save more than half the time. So you're really doing a little bit better than 1/4th damage. Changing that to ignore both the SR and the save is... a really bad trade.. Even if you had a 50/50 chance to hit (and I think you have a better chance to hit than that, with reasonable stats), you're looking at a doubling of damage against creatures with SR and a good save.

Hobbun wrote:

Oh come now. Now you are just overreacting a bit there. We are talking about one spell type (orbs). At least 90% of the damage spells (or any reflex save spell) you are still going to have plenty opportunities to use your evasion abilities.

Besides, it isn’t as if the orbs are auto hits, anyways. And even though it’s only against a touch AC, characters who have the evasion feats and high reflex saves ‘usually’ are the same ones who have high touch AC’s, as well. Nevermind a single class Wizard/Sorcerer is not going to have that high of a bonus to hit. So the orb spells far ‘invalidates’ those abilities.

Sure, you'd have a chance to use your evasion if everyone took from all damaging spell equally... But we know that players and NPCs pick "the best ones". Orbs would become a staple spell with Sorcerers, and with metamagic feats, they could spam pretty much nothing but that one orb all day at higher levels.

Improving one class with better options leads to the class balance being out of whack. I don't think the 'Ignore SR and Saves' should be added to a wizard/sorc's bag of tricks. Maybe if the damage was really crappy, such as d4/level.

In 3.5 a lot of the wizard/sorcerer PRCs revolved around breaking orb spells... My friend made a master conjurer and could punk dragons... No SR, No Save, Dragons have bad touch AC.

Shadow Lodge

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).

But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.

I usually prefer spont casters over prepared casters, but that in no way makes me want less cantrips/orisons just because I can't have them all. More choices means more chances to fill out flavor. A lot of the current 0-lvl spells I don't really care about, as they don't fit my chars' flavor, more varied 0-lvl is a good thing.

Scarab Sages

Just made a thread about the No Orb Spells/etc. issue so if people wanna have that debate, they can do it there. Er... HERE.

Of course no one has to listen but I'd rather talk about what IS in my shiny new PDF on this thread.

-Drillboss

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Yikes.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.

Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)


Beckman, I am not going to respond to your argument as this is just not the place for it. It is for discussion on Ultimate Magic.

At the time I made the original comment about the orbs, it was relevant due to it was a disappointment for something I did not see (or something equivalent) in the UM book. It was not intended to spawn a discussion on why orbs should or shouldn’t be in PF.

I will just end by saying that while I respect your opinion, it is not one I agree with.

Contributor

Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.

I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Hey!

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Cape of Wasps

...
You summon a wasp swarm (Bestiary 275), which fills your space (up to 5 feet by 5 feet) but does not attack you. The dense cloud of vermin gives you partial concealment against ranged attacks. Any creature that makes a successful melee attack against you takes 2d6 points of swarm damage and poison from the wasp swarm, but is not affected by the swarm’s distraction ability. As a free action on your turn, you may have the swarm cling to you tightly, giving you a fly speed of 20 feet (poor maneuverability); when using the swarm to fly, it does not provide concealment or harm creatures that strike you. You can return the swarm to its protective shape as a free action on your turn.

Gee, that sounds eerily familiar :) Very cool.

Funny, if I had it to do over again, that's exactly what I was thinking - partial concealment vs. ranged attacks.

Though I do like spiders better, they're creepier.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.
I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)

I'd just include in the 'big book of zero level spells' that these spells are not commonly found in the starting wizards spellbook. Bam, done. :-)

I like zero level spells.

(the other side is, the wizard's book eventually weights 250 lbs at first level from all the zero level spells in it.)


Matthew Morris wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
Eric Clingenpeel wrote:
Sean K Reynolds wrote:
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).
But isn't that part of the point of choosing between prepared casters vs. spontaneous casters? A wizard has the ability to gain all the spells of on his list, that's part of the character. And just because spont casters have to pick and choose what spells they get doesn't mean they don't want more. I mean, seriously, that's class basics.
I didn't say that *I* was part of that resistance. :)

I'd just include in the 'big book of zero level spells' that these spells are not commonly found in the starting wizards spellbook. Bam, done. :-)

I like zero level spells.

(the other side is, the wizard's book eventually weights 250 lbs at first level from all the zero level spells in it.)

I agree a simple statement that only 0 level spell in the CRB are included in the beginning spell book would suffice. One of the great role playing angles of a wizard is searching for new spells.

Grand Lodge

gbonehead wrote:

Yikes.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)

I think Carrion crown just got scarier

Dark Archive

Aaron Scott 139 wrote:

I have some questions I'm hoping someone might know a thing or two about.

Wizard Arch types - What are they?

Wizard toys - anything jump out as super cool?

Arcane Discoveries... how do they work?

Thanks.

Scrollmaster is their only new archetype.

The Discoveries are pretty neat, just wish there was more. :) They also get two new elemental schools. Metal and Wood.

They get 10 new discoveries. They take the place of feats wizards would get, or you could say they are very wizard specific feats.


Still no email why must paizo be soo cruel


Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.

Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??

Scarab Sages

Beckman wrote:
Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??

I would assume +2, as that was the adjustment when it first showed up in the Osirion Player's Companion.

Though they did lower the Knowledge (religion) requirement from 10 to 6...

Owner - House of Books and Games LLC

Beckman wrote:
Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??

Sure, it's +2. There were another 2-4 paragraphs; I just pasted the ones that made me go "Holy moley!"

Shadow Lodge

gbonehead wrote:

Yikes.

Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Eep! My players are going to be rather unhappy with this one :)

Necromancers are gonna be happy about that...


Pathfinder Card Game Subscriber
CPOKWDWH_Kai wrote:
Beckman wrote:
Ultimate Magic wrote:

Thanatopic Spell (Metamagic)

Your spells can pierce wards against negative energy and even affect undead targets.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (religion) 6 ranks, Spell Focus (necromancy).
Benefit: A thanatopic spell pierces defenses and immunities that protect against death effects, negative levels, and energy drain, affecting the target as if the protective barrier did not exist.
For example, you could cast a thanatopic vampiric touch or enervation spell on a target under the effects of death ward, and the target would suffer the normal effect of the spell. Saving throws and SR (if any) still apply.
Is there a level adjustment on spells cast with this??

I would assume +2, as that was the adjustment when it first showed up in the Osirion Player's Companion.

Though they did lower the Knowledge (religion) requirement from 10 to 6...

Well, correct me if I'm wrong, but that book came out before the core rulebook for Pathfinder RPG. It probably still went off of the old D&D 3.5 rule of max ranks in a class skill being 3 plus level instead of just your character level. Of course that would make a straight conversion 7 ranks instead of 6, but they probably thought 6 was better for whatever reason.


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).

If Oracles can get Oracle-only spells even though they otherwise share the Cleric spell-list, why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips? Or if having Wizards UNABLE to Cast these is problematic, have them stated to not be included in standard Wizard starting Spellbooks, e.g. they must be learned and scribed from an outside source...?

Contributor

Quandary wrote:
If Oracles can get Oracle-only spells even though they otherwise share the Cleric spell-list, why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips? Or if having Wizards UNABLE to Cast these is problematic, have them stated to not be included in standard Wizard starting Spellbooks, e.g. they must be learned and scribed from an outside source...?

Oracle-only spells exist because they rely on oracle-specific mechanics. For example, oracle's burden in the APG gives the target the negative aspects of your oracle curse. If you're a cleric, this has ZERO effect because the cleric class doesn't have a curse class feature, so it's not even on the cleric list. Likewise, mnemonic-enhancer is marked as "wizard only" because it alters how you prepare spells, and thus is useless to a sorcerer.

A sorcerer-only spell would thus have to do something involving a sorcerer-specific class feature, like a bloodline or spontaneous casting. I'm not saying we can't have sorcerer-only spells, but creating a balanced sorcerer-only cantrip won't be easy because of the disparity in power levels between cantrips and bloodline powers/arcana.

Dark Archive

Quandary wrote:
why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips?

Off the top of my head;

Spoiler:

Ennoble Bloodline
School transmutation; Level Sor 0
Casting Time 1 standard action
Components V, S, F (a gift given to you by a creature of your bloodline type)
Range personal
Effect you
Duration 1 minute (special) (D)

You concentrate the power of your bloodline temporarily, gaining a bonus to your effective Sorcerer level equal to your Charisma modifier to the next use of one of your Bloodline Powers. Your sorcerous potential is channeled into this enhancement, and you cannot cast another Sorcerer spell until this effect is expended, either by use, by willing it to end as a standard action, or by the expiration of the effect at the end of the duration. This enhancement to effective caster level does not allow the sorcerer to access an ability that they are not yet otherwise capable of using.

Example: A 2nd level Aberrant Bloodline sorcerer with a Charisma score of 18 casts this cantrip. A single time in the next minute, she can use acidic ray as if she was actually 6th level (1d6+3 damage).

[Alternately, a stronger versions of this effect might allow the sorcerer to access bloodline powers at their higher effective level, so the example sorceress could choose to instead make a single use of long limbs, which wouldn't normally be available to her until 3rd level.]


Any one have a chance to look at the "binding outsiders" section. I'm curious as to what it updates/changes.

Contributor

Set wrote:
Quandary wrote:
why can`t you put out some Sorceror-only Cantrips?

Off the top of my head;

** spoiler omitted **

I'd be very, very cautious about letting an (at-will) cantrip boost, improve, repeat, or increase/give early access to abilities which are (1) more powerful than a cantrip, and/or (2) have limited uses per day.

Sovereign Court RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8

Burning to DVD now!

Dark Archive

Sean K Reynolds wrote:
I'd be very, very cautious about letting an (at-will) cantrip boost, improve, repeat, or increase/give early access to abilities which are (1) more powerful than a cantrip, and/or (2) have limited uses per day.

Yeah, the example was just 'ooh, I spend an extra action to get +2 damage on my next use of acid ray,' but I'm sure some would try to 'explain' that one of the abilities that gains a number of rounds of use per day equal to Sorcerer level could be used infinitely by recasting the spell over and over again.

Obviously, that wouldn't work anymore than casting eagle's splendor five times in a day to get ten extra uses of channel energy would work, but I'm sure there are those who would argue otherwise.

I remember arguments in the CharOps forums about putting on and taking off one's Periapt of Wisdom to gain new bonus spells and Turn / Rebuke attempts, after having exhausted them, for a pretty much infinite supply of spells and T/R attempts, back in the day, so this cantrip would likely be like catnip to that crowd.


Wolf Munroe wrote:


Druids get new Arch-types:
Menhir Servant
Storm Druid

I've been wondering what these do. Is the Menhir Savant the druid equivalent of a cloistered cleric? What does it get and what does it give up? And does the Storm Druid seem interesting?

Shadow Lodge

Its rather disapointing that there really wasn't any Special Sorceror only abilities.

Paladins got a whole slew of feats that improve thier class abilities.
From Dragonbane Aura to a Ranged Lay on hands.

Spontanous Metacasting is a nice boost for everyone who don't prepare spells.

I really wish Arcane Bloodline Sorcs could get Arcane Bolt instead of Arcane Bond if they wanted to...


Sean K Reynolds wrote:
The black raven wrote:

This book is so filled with possibilities that it boggles the mind. Heck, even Rangers making traps.

I do have a major gripe though : there are zero new cantrips/orisons. Come to think of it, there have been very few cantrip/orisons in PFRPG products except for the CRB.
The zero-level spells are wonderful for giving a real magical flavor to characters at all level and can be quite useful for low-level casters, multi-class characters and Rogues with the minor magic talent. Also they reward ingenuity rather than raw power.
I am quite disappointed that no-one thought that they were worth the effort to include in the ultimate book about magic in the PFRPG system :-(
There is some resistance to adding new 0-level spells to the game because it means wizards get all of them automatically, which is a little unfair to classes with a limited number of spells known (bard, oracle, sorc, etc.).

Isn't the easiest way around that to simply state that Wizards only start off with cantrips in the "Pathfinder Corebook" only???


Someone mentioned there's 2 new item creation feats. What are they?


Got my PDF, and the only thing I felt was missing are racial favored class benefits for the Magus. Any chance we can get those as a blog post or something? Or will they detailed in a future book?


gbonehead wrote:

Hey!

Though I do like spiders better, they're creepier.

Nothing is creepier than wasps... I fear those hellspawned monsters more than anything.


Pathfinder Companion, Starfinder Roleplaying Game Subscriber; Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Superscriber
Razz wrote:
Someone mentioned there's 2 new item creation feats. What are they?

There aren't any item creation feats, however there are two general feats that modifiy existing item creation feats. One allows you to create arms or armor that is a holy symbol. And the other allows you to brew a potion that let's another use a bloodline power.

Silver Crusade

Just started reading.

The earlier comments about the artwork rocking are spot on. Case in point: the Qinggong Monk "punk monk" example is awesome.

Going to have to take a closer look, but I'm falling in love with that monk variant. I'm still not sold on the vows, but maybe I'm missing something if they synergize with the qinggong monk.

ranty for a bit, sorry
Really split on the Paladin Oaths. About half of them lend themselves to absolutist party-grief concepts. What does an Oath against Corruption paladin do when he meets a Flumph or visits Korvosa with its otyugh-dependant sewer system? What do Oath against Fiends paladins do when they encounter a risen (or rising) fiend(double points if he's a paladin of Ragathiel who pretty much IS a risen fiend). Hell, what about tieflings? Oath against Undead at least gave a nod to good undead being possible, while saying it's cool beans to murder 'em anyway. At least Oath against Savagery explicitly notes it's about "savages" bearing down on civilization with hostile intent, but I'm still not big on it considering the ugly places it can lead. And then there's Oath against Wyrms and the explicit mention of dragon-bloodline sorcerers being a possible target. No thanks.

Oaths of Charity, Chastity, Loyalty, and Vengeance on the other hand, I dig. Those are nice and evocative.

I'm guessing Zon-Kuthon's absense on the Torture Inquisition deity list is an unintentional error, because that is so his sort of scene.

Just saw the Baron Samedi halfling! :D

The Eidolon models are going to be VERY handy for helping newcomers to the class!

Mwangi druid w/ triceratops is BOSS.

create demiplane - <3

Bard masterpieces are awesome. I'd love to see more stuff along these lines and the old incantations from 3.x. This is a kind of magic I would love to see more of in the game.

(that and House of the Imaginary Walls gives me all the excuse I need to make a mime bard. :D)

The expanded spell creation rules are very appreciated. Gonna lose myself in those for a moment.


Curious as to the vareity of new witch hex's. And witch or familiar specific feats. . .

Silver Crusade

shadowsgrneyes wrote:
Curious as to the vareity of new witch hex's. And witch or familiar specific feats. . .

On hexes:

There's a hex that involves detecting children or young animals, a curse transmitted via seeing your familiar, nasty fingernails, Snow White style sleep cursin' food, magical scars, spookin' horses, aquatic lungs, turning people into food(:O), seeing through the eyes of other animals, animated huts, and all sorts of nastiness involving ice needles and tombs.

Witch example art is a badass pilgrim looking dude.


So still no word on the 'choose fate' spell? Or are we waiting for everyone to get it before we discuss errata?

Dark Archive

SkinnyD wrote:
Got my PDF, and the only thing I felt was missing are racial favored class benefits for the Magus. Any chance we can get those as a blog post or something? Or will they detailed in a future book?

+1

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