I don't think that they are overpowered, but they do ignore a lot of the rules with their hexes. I'm alright with the lack of SR, but its the lack of descriptors on them that makes me slighly unhappy with the class. For example, the Death Curse doesn't have the Death descriptor, and Forced Reincarnation can be used on Constructs because its a Will save, despite the fact that there has NEVER been a Save-or-die will saving throw spell in PF without it being mind-affecting.
-Dexion: That's entirely situational. If you only face four opponents in a day, the witch is only using the hexes four times (one for each opponent). The wizard, can choose to use all of his alloted powers at once on one opponenent or spread them around.
Also gotta favorite 'The Whispering Cairn'. Brilliant dungeon design and unique fights. Also, any of the three published levels of 'Maure Castle' from Dunegon are just outstanding. I dropped a couple in my homebrew games and just swapped out some of the lore in the modules for backdrop details in my game and it worked perfectly. Finally, 'Foxglove Manor' from The Skinsaw Murders is a great one-shot, haunted house dungeon that I ran on halloween, using the pre-gens. Even having to make up or change some of the links to the previous module on the fly, the sheer horror factor and cool encounters made it quite memorable.
For some reason, I keep thinking about the last Zelda game to come out (The Skyward Sword) when I read through this thread. The idea there is that there are dozens of floating islands up in the sky, part of the original landscape which was ripped away and cast upwards by the gods. They did this to protect the most sacred places of the earth from a great evil that covered the whole planet. Clouds cover the whole world, creating a sort of above-ground underdark except for the floating islands that dwell above the clouds.
Awesome thread, BTW!
I also attempted it in a campaign about a year ago, specifically, Legacy of Fire. Here's the Link for the thread where I discussed an alternate system using Diplomacy, Intimidate,and Appraise. For my group, this kind of worked since it reflected the highly variable nature of buying and selling things in Katapesh.
So far, we seemingly have a single spell with a pretty good duration that does all of the following:
...Which all seems a little overpowered for a fourth level spell. Flat out immunity to so many things is so good, why wouldn't every character with access to the spell run around with it up?
RAW, it doesn't give you immunity to terrain, just the penalties associated with underwater combat. This changes if the terrain cast is magical like Entangle and the quoted spells. For example, a character could not sprint across a tight-rope if under the influence of the spell, but they could move right through a conjured Wall of Thorns. I think the same rules would apply to natural terrain (like ice and undergrowth). Your example of a Tornado would still be able to suck up a PC since the Tornado is not implicitly grappling.
Sorry, I guess that started out helpful, and then devolved..
Thanks for the link, I somehow missed the very lengthy and informative thread. The consensus seems to be that there are no absolutes in Pathfinder; that in any given encounter, certain classes will always be better to have than others, but that doesn't necessarily reduce the viability of any given class, or its strategy (like spamming Channels).
On Tangetn's Lof idea:
Legacy of Fire Spoilers:
Level 10? You could have the adventure begin the acquiring of the scroll and the party getting sent to the pocket realm. You could easily substitute Kelmerane for your PCs home base of operations. Book 4 is easy to scale up to 10th, especially given the magical constraints of the pocket dimension. From there, just run the AP as normal with minor substitutions. The one thing I would be sure to sprinkle in is more Rovagug flavor since they might potentially fight one of its spawn at the end.
Lord Fyre's RotR idea is pretty good as well.
Not a good answer, Jiggy, but my take is this:
NOOOO! Why couldn't you have come out last year?? (Just past the halfway mark in 'Broken Moon')
Are there going to be suggestions for DMs on how to deal with a party afflicted with Lycanthropy? Advice besides the "You wake up the next day covered in blood" typicality would be helpful, especially if more than one PC has the affliction. For example:
In my Carrion Crown game, four out of five PCs contracted the disease, right as one of the main fights of the module played out. This made for a tricky dynamic since the presence of one unafflicted PC demanded that I play out the events in round by round rather than narrating them. At the same time, I had to find a balance with the afflicted PC's players so they wouldn't just be sitting out until they were cured.
Pro Healing. In fact, I'd like someone to explain to me how anything but the most optimized PCs blaze through encounters without any healing. The smartest foes tend to gang up on one PC, and not having decent healing can mean the difference between the next full attack wounding or killing the PC. Same goes for high damage-dice fireballs, breath weapons that roll a '1' on the recharge, and other situations where back-to-back high damage pools encompass the party. Is the solution just to try to kill the monster first? What about lingering effects, like Confusion, Acid Fog, and other stuff that sticks around and does damage after the "danger" is passed.
A few arguments against some of the builds I see:
Oh, and for my part, I would take the following, non of which would be lawful or good aligned.
-Ranger (Archery) 20
I always had problems wanting to start a relationship with Miranda because she looks like Michael Jackson. No really, look at her. Ashley's too much of a racist for my taste, so its usually between Tali or Liara for me. On my current playthrough, it's Liara. As for Jack.. well, my Shepherd's in it for the long term, and Jack ain't that.
Oh, and I agree, ME3 multiplayer kicks ass.
Some stuff that happened last night that might be interesting to others:
Usually, a one on one fight between a single PC and an equal CR monster is dicey at best, if not suicidal for the PC. Depending on the creature's build and abilities, its possible for said beasty to one-off the character, which sucks since one-on-one duels are at the core of countless fantasy genres. I knew the barbarian was going to need help, yet if the other PCs jumped in, it would suddenly be a free-for all with Mathus, his remaining tribe (about 15 strong), and the Dorzenhacs all throwing in. I struck upon an idea as I thought about the character's new were-forms and how that might affect an encounter with the Vilkicis. I decided the following:
A Sympathetic Spirit-
-While evil, the Vilkicis wants nothing more than to be free from its centuries of imprisonment within the stone. While it is occasionally free to exert its own power over its wanderings, it is always under the control of the stone's owner. It utterly resents Estovian and rankles at the control that a non-Lycanthrope is exerting over it.
-Since the majority of the PCs are werewolves, the Vilkicis sees in them possible allies, and even with its lower intelligence, it understands that if Mathus is packlord, the Vilkicis will continue to be the slave his ally Estovian.
-During the fight with Mathus, the barbarian heard whispering pleas in her head, whispers of the Vilkicis telling her that it was a prisoner. It told her that it could never be free if Mathus was packlord and it would help her.
-Even with the party buffing her, the barbarian had a hard time fighting Mathus, especially with the 'Human Hate' conferred by his Ranger levels. Within about three rounds, it was obvious that without some intervention, Mathus would prevail, and within a round or two.
-The Vilkicis "partially" possessed her and gave her all of its gifts, such as Greater Rage and the extra natural weapons that come with that. Since only getting an additonal +2 str and con wasn't really enough, I upped it to +4/+4 (she's already a barbarian and rage doesn't stack) When this happened, not only did it allow the barbarian to defeat Mathus (barely), but also provided some emotional resonance with the werewolves; seeing their ancestor spirit channeled into the barbarian made making peace after the duel much easier.
-They took Estovian alive. Despite putting up a hell of a fight, they cornered and knocked him out. The Oracle accomplished this by spamming Sound Bursts, making it so he couldn't use his Dimensional Steps to flee. They are giving him over to the Werewolves for judgement. They set the Vilkicis free as part of the mental bargain made with it, destroying its stone over the remains.
I found it really fun to get to role-play the Vilkcis instead of having it just be another "wants-to-rip-your-face off monster". I also liked the moral dilemma that the barbarian's player faced, of whether or not to allow this violent outside influence to take control of her (beyond what the lycanthropy was already doing).
With Legacy though, if a DM knows about the transition needed between books 3 and 4, it can be done pretty easily. I feel that LoF is one of the more light-hearted campaigns; after all, the BBEG is simply doing what he's doing because he wants to go out on a date. While the darker themes of slavery and slaughter are sprinkled in, the over-arching 'high adventure' feel of the whole path echos Kingmaker and some of its lighter moments.
Yeah, I've got all four whites from the DDM line (from small to Gargantuan), and even with those, I really want this. For one thing, there's a medium sized White, which DDM never had. Another thing is that the paint schemes on these are way better than their DDM equivalents, especially on the mouths. I've been trying to curb my mini buying, and then this comes out. A great idea, props to whoever came up with the idea for this.
Those are both nice!
For my part, I plan on having a lot of the town encompassed in fog to prevent the encounters from escalating into one massive combat. That way, I don't have to worry about the actual map of the town and can just have the group move from "scene to scene". I don't think the intention of the module is to clear every building, cleanse the taint of Feldgrau, then kill the BBEG; I was under the impression that Feldgrau was a 'lasting evil' that couldn't be 'fixed'. From what I understand, a lot of groups beeline to the tower anyways, so you might not even need maps for all those buldings.
Where are you getting this?Not that I'm doubting you, it s just that I have the whole CC path, Rule of Fear, and the Inner Sea World Guide, and I don't remember anything about that...
As wonky as it might seem, Charlatan's range is unlimited... meaning that the haunt effect could occur if a character is in town (via accidental falling damage or other effects) or worse, linger until a really bad encounter (like the Lopper or the Splatterman). There's lots of ways to detect it, but if your PCs don't think to do it... then..yeah.
Thanks for the dissection. I agree that I am probably reading too much into it, but as it is, its still friggin' powerful. My problem is that one could see its use as early as a 9th level AP module (usually the 4th one.) By the end of those, PCs are 11th level and usually have access to the spell, right in time for the final fight. The modules at that point are NEVER prepared for this tactic. This happened in "Age of Worms", "Savage Tide", "Rise of the Ruinlords", and I expect that it will be 'attempted' in Carrion Crown and Kingmaker.
There are also strong themes of personal loss, especially in the first two.
It seems like personal loss and how it either strengthens or destroys those it affects is a prevalent theme in these modules.
There have been a total of two threads before on this subject before, but they are a getting older and don't necesarily answer the specific questions that I have on this spell.
Normally, a wind walker flies at a speed of 10 feet with perfect maneuverability. (1)If desired by the subject, a magical wind (2)wafts a wind walker along (3)at up to 600 feet per round (60 mph) with poor maneuverability. Wind walkers are not invisible but rather appear misty and translucent. If fully clothed in white, they are 80% likely to be mistaken for clouds, fog, vapors, or the like.
1) "If Desired by the subject"- what sort of action is this exactly? It seems free, but if so, is there a limit to the number of times a turn? Like: turn up wind to 60 mph, go 600 feet, turn off wind? If not free, is it part of the movement (see below)
2)"Wafts"-Does this mean the character is required to make any sort of action here or does the wind do the moving for them? I've always thought it was a move action to do so, but dissecting the text makes it pretty unclear.
3)"At up to"- This seems to indicate that the speed is somehow variable, allowing the Windwalker to ride the wind at any speed up to 600 feet. Again, if its free actions to raise the wind speed, does a player have to worry about stating their intended speed and then complete their movement at the stated speed? Can they change their speed mid-flight? Also, the question of the actions required to 'ride the wind' come into play if you have players that can take advantage of gaseous form... like a sorcerer with the right meta-magic feats and blast spells. I mean, could a blaster poof around and drop meta-magiced fireballs at 120 squares of movement a turn? Would Fly-by-Attack be applicable? Cause... that seems kind of cheesy.
4) [i]"with poor maneuverability"[i/]- If the wind is a separate part of the spell itself, is the Windwalker affected by high winds? Would the wind have to be greater than 60 mph to override the spell or are Fly checks necessary for even minor winds?
Finally, how do DMs deal with this spell on an adventure level? Usually 11th level modules try to account for such things, but sometimes the authors forget, and what I've gotten in the past are gaseous PCs scouting entire dungeons at high speed and avoiding a lot of the adventure itself. Its hard to refute the logic of 'Why wouldn't our super-smart good guys buff like crazy, windwalk past all the random encounters, and find out where the BBEG is?'.
Carrion Pawn me! It'll probably be too late for me by the time they come out (if they do), but there's so many monsters that I'm kind of at a loss as to what to use for a proxy. Some of them I made unique minis for (out of femo) or modifified other ones, but having pawns for the following would have been really useful:
Monsters I had to make from scratch, modify, or substitute.:
-Brother Swarm (I know he's a Wraith, but a more unique looking one would be cool, along with swarm children
-Adimarius Ionacu and other Fiendish Werewolves
-About everything in Wake of the Watcher.
I haven't looked through the last two yet to see speicifically what I need, but I'm sure there's bound to be a few (I've got a good Marrowarth mini in the D+D minis Dracolich, but what about Hagmouth?)
You could also do it with a Basilisk, but it'd be hard to keep the Pugwampis out of the gaze..
1) Greg A. Vaughan: 'Kings of the Rift', 'Spires of Xin Shalast', 'Skeletons of Scarwall' and 'Prince of Demons' are some of the most memorable modules I've seen in a while.
That's kind of a cool substitute encounter, and as long as you think the numbers are right for the CRs, it could prove interesting. Perhaps he shrunk and performed experiments on these monsters. In my campaign for example:
I substituted the Black Pudding for a Cloaker and a Gibbering Mouther combo. I hate Black Puddings and thought it'd be cooler to have monsters leftover that were used in the creation of the Aberrant Promethian.
That being said, don't discount the mummy and mimic. It's a high variable encounter, meaning if the mummy wins initiatitve and paralyzes half the party or the mimic grapples the wrong person (like the guy readying the scorching ray on whatever is inside the sealed coffin), its suddenly an interesting if not potentially deadly fight. On the other hand, your party might get super creative and somehow open the coffin at a distance and fireball the room three times before anything even moves. The fight seems to go differently for different groups, and a lot of it depends on dice.
So this is how last night went for me:
The PCs arrived at the Stairs just after sunset, accompanied by Rhakis and a group of Princes Wolves. I used them mainly to scout ahead during the journey there and they dealt either socially or harshly with the numerous werewolf packs that appeared with increasing frequency toward the stairs. Rhakis attempted to broker peace from the clearing's edge, speaking of unity against a common foe, but Mathus would only accept submittance and yelled down his ultimatum. As a couple of arrows struck Rhakis, the PCs quickly moved to support him and then moved beyond the edge of the clearing and into the full moon's light towards the Stairs.
Before this encounter began, I knew I was going to need some sort of way for the PCs to still control their actions periodically and even to get the occasional word in to their foes. Otherwise, I felt that a lot of the coming encounters would lose their background and some of their impact. Not only that, but 4/5 of my players might as well go watch a movie or something since the presence of the fifth dictate that I run the combat in its fullness.
I'm a big fan of the Bardic Masterpieces from Ultimate Magic, and so decided that Prince Rhakis knew one of his own. It worked like this-
Song of Moon's Ebb:
Prerequisite: Perform (Sing) 5 ranks or Perform (String) 5 Ranks
Effect: Upon beginning this Performance, all afflicted Lycanthropes that can hear this song may attempt to gain control of their mental facilities. A character who has lost control of their character to Lycnathropy may attempt a Will saving Throw (DC 15)at the beginning of their turn to act normally. They may take any actions that their current form allows, including changing forms, casting spells, and using magic items. Using this Masterpiece replaces any current Bardic performance the bard may have active and requires the normal action to maintain every round as a standard bardic performance. As long as this performance is maintained, afflicted Lycantrhopes may continue to gain control of their actions every round with successful saving throws. Additional performers of this Masterpiece do not grant multiple saving throws, but they do lower the DC required to gain control by 2 for each accompanying bard.
Use: 1 baric performance per minute
This made it so the players could periodically influence their words and actions, yet it made it so sometimes they would just lose control and fly at the closest enemy. They basically charged straight at the Stairs and all immediately transformed and suffered a round of being peppered with arrows as they spent full-rounds changing into Wolf-form. This gave them a moment of horrible vulnerability, as without any cover, the Silverhide Rangers easily bloodied a couple of them before they even closed. Once control was established, almost everyone spent their actions shifting into the more advantageous Half-Man (Crinos for any Werewold players??) and the Oracle was able to heal most of their wounds. From there, it was on.
The session ended with the were-PCs at the top of the stairs, with the PC Barbarian having challenged Mathus to single combat... More to come.
Control Weather, because why not completely setup battlefield conditions before a fight, including visibility, penalty or even existence of ranged weapons, and the viability of flight? If a party has access to this and sets up their tactics to the magical weather, it can be used to devastating effect.
I reiterate Freedom of Movement. No other single spell in the game completely stops so many special attacks by monsters. Grappling, swallow whole,paralysis, slow effects, and impeding terrain are all mitigated by one spell with a long duration. The thing that sets it apart from other protection spells like Pro. Evil and Deathward is that you aren't just getting a bonus and you don't ever have to worry about a higher level monster just breaking through with sheer power, you're just immune. That planet-sized Elder-deity that's trying to Swallow you whole? You're immune, whether you're 7th level or 20th level.
Azmahel: These are all good suggestions, and I will probably incorporate some of them tonight. My party uses Harrow Points instead if Hero points, and will most likely acquire the 'Eclipse' Harrow card, which I believe also cures a PC of Lycanthropy permanently. The combination of all of those things should be enough to restore the PCs before their tip to Feldgrau, though I can see them becoming infected again with the Demon Wolf encounters there. At that point, it won't be as big of a deal since it will be a while before the next full moon.
Pan My players all know that I have been rolling in secret and are good with it. They're of the same opinion as me in that a loss of personal control is a great central theme in horror, most of all in monstrous transformation stories such as Jekyl and Hyde, or in this case, Werewolves. I probabaly will probably allow them to role-play their actions for the most part unless in contradicts what a bestial version of them would do. Should be interesting, I'll let everyone know the results.
It is easy for a lot of parties to overlook the evidence trail that leads to V+Gs, and if they miss a step with the timeline the adventure is on, going there is kind of superfluous after the trial. That being said, what you could do:
How much are you planning on using Adivion Adrissant? You could have him "helpfully" steer the PCs in the right direction. Perhaps they are old associates of his and he needs to tie up loose ends. Perhaps Auren Vrood leaves a note to Vorstag and Grine telling them to take care of anyone investigating the beast. Then you can just have V+G send something after the group and have them trail either it or its tracks back to their factory.
Hope that helps!
So I'm faced with kind of an interesting role-playing challenge for my group that I'm running in Carrion Crown. The PCs consist of the following currently:
Male Dhampir Magus 7 (Infected)
Broken Moon spoilers:
Between four seperate werewolf encounters and the Vilkicis, almost every PC is infected. I had a lot of the wandering encounters in the Shudderwood consist of werewolves, with a couple of major exceptions. It should be noted that I roll all of my Lycanthropy checks in secret, so none of the players know whether or not they are infected. My timeline is this:
-Estovian and Belik (who in my gave is a 7th level rogue) have already done their deeds and fled to the Stairs of the Moon.
-Minor details not pertinent to situation at hand but give background:
-The Moon cycle is currently 1 day away from the 3 day Full Moon period.
-The journey to Highthrone will take the group enoughh time that they should arrive a little after the full moon rises.
With all that in mind, I foresee that everyone is going to transform as soon as combat breaks out at the Stairs. The massive clearing between the treeline and the Stairs themselves is definitely big enough to allow even a low moon to shine its light in. Tentatively, I think I will allow those overtaken by the beast to make whatever rolls are necessary for the actions they take, but having me control their characters movements and actual actions instead of them. Questions for anyone:
1)Does having me control their character's actions seem fair or unfair? I am not going to have them turn on each other but instead almost be directed toward Highthrone and Mathus, carving a bloody swath as they do.
I should note that I gave the Packlord's Heart mystical powers, and while Mathus doesn't have all of it, I think I'm going to give him a power akin to forcing a Lycanthrope into their human form, as well as a couple others. From the reports of how he has fared against other groups, it looks like he needs the help. Besides this, I'm on the fence on whether I want my characters in control of their PCs for this fight or not, since defeating him heralds the turning point of the module.
Thanks for any help!
Carrion Crown The encounters here are balanced enough that your group will have to be creative to defeat some of the enemies. I could see a few encounters in the first dungeon alone giving this group fits, where some of the TPK encounters in the second book might be easily bypassed with the right spells. Same for the third. That gets me thinking...
Does your group still adhere to monsters with Magic Immunity (like Golems) having unbeatable SR?
I will say that your house-rule does favor area-of effect damage spells, since unless they have evasion, they're taking damage no matter what. Also, it makes the interactions between Protection from Evil and Summoned Monsters almost too powerful. If they don't get a spell resistance check, they basically auto-fail they ability to physically harm the caster... which means that CR 13 glabrezu that just appeared can be foiled by a 1st level sorcerer with a 1st level spell (for the most part, anyways). If your alright with the possible ramifications, it sounds like an interesting house rule. I'd be interested to see how it works in whatever path you end up running.
areas so far where Whirlwind would be good:
Not including book 1 since it would be impossible to have that Feat by then, but in Book 2, the Schloss, by its very map design, funnels enemies at whatever PC walks into the room first (rust monsters, fungi, wights, vargoulles)
In Book 3, you've got a least a couple encounters with multiple werewolves (who usually flank like real wolves) as well as the hordes of undead that are in Feldgrau.
In Book 4, you've got the cultists, skum, mi-go...
So I can think of quite a few places where trading your iterative attacks for a swing at every creature is often the better choice, at least so far.
One of my players is a Scythe Fighter who specializes in Cleave and Cleaving Finish, and he has found (in conjunction with Lunge) these feats to be incredibly useful, though not in every encounter. We're halfway through book 3, so I'd say that a Whirlwind-style fighter, given the right weapon choices, would be very useful. Also, all of the Prerequisite feats for it are pretty good in of themselves, so you're not wasting anything by building towards that. (Mobility arguably being the weakest of the four)
There's definitely some good stuff here, Ice Titan, Thank you for posting, my group is in the middle of 'Broken Moon', so it's interesting to see what you've changed and how your group handled certain encounters. How was Wake of the Watcher for you guys? Did you change anything to tie it into the story more?
I'm a big Lamashtu fan. Here's why:
1)One of the only Demon lords in Golarion to ascend to god-hood
I think I'd rather be tortured by Zon Kuthon than be used by Lamashtu as a breeding plaything. (..shudders..]