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RPG Superstar 2013 Star Voter. 1,028 posts. 2 reviews. 1 list. No wishlists.


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I thought all Blanch's were for just 1 successful strike, then the effect dissipates.. unlike Silversheen, which lasts for a bit.

Depends how you feel about Circle of Death.

Spoilery bits:

Auren Vrood can't legally cast his highest spell levels due to the progression of Agent of the Grave PrC with regards to spell-casting advancement. By the rules, he shouldn't have any of his 6th level spells but does. The biggest thing is Circle of Death, which has caused more party wipes than anything else in the campaign. I ran it with his extra spells (actually gave him another level to make it legal) for a couple reasons. 1) I wanted my players to experience the same thing that everyone else is facing through the path. 2)I have really good players, very tactical savvy with the ability to anticipate perils they might face. A couple Death Wards and Harrow Cards helped my PCs survive, but it helped heighten the dramatic tension of the encounter. There have also been DMs who have foreshadowed this attack at Ravengro (I did) by describing the area where the professor died as a ring devoid of all life, a perfect circle where no grass grows.

The problem with the rule is that it usually only comes into play at high level, where even a Wizard can easily make a DC 15 fortitude save. I hate "don't roll a 1 mechanics', and this exemplifies that the most. Never have used it, its one of those rules I conveniently forget.

Aelryinth wrote:

Well, me and Danowan were ripping our way through a rift, looking for that boss...tons of loot and gold and whatnot...and then got booted, and now the server is down.

No, I never got back on that night. I played about two days ago and haven't had too many issues since then.

Has anybody been able to do a new character in seasonal play? I keep searching for the option but it hasn't appeared yet.

Really liking the changes in 2.1: Mass Salvage, less keystones needed for the rifts, the super-rifts, and the new gems are all pretty neat. So far the highest I've gotten is level 20 on the rifts. Hoping 5o push that further.

Gods really hate it when other Gods intervene in the mortal realm, so why not have the following happen if they are raised:

1)Urgathoa takes slight to the notions of Pharasma robbing her of some new prizes (cause if you die in Renchurch, you're probably going to end up undead), and so sends her Herald, Mother's Maw to destroy them. Pharasma can no longer interfere without rousing the ire of other gods, so they must face it alone.

2) Something happens with the resurrection, and Daemons, Groetus, or some other entity unfriendly towards Pharasma has corrupted the journey back. As a result, the PCs are haunted by Minor Reapers (from that book's bestiary) that only appear when a PC falls below 0 hp. That way, the other PCs have to protect the fallen while potentially having the fight escalate with additional reapers.

3) Luciamr decides he's had enough of this upstart Adivion and what he's about to do to WW. He decides to use Limited Wish to raise the PCs with the stipulation that they defeat the Black Friar and leave Renchurch for Lucimar to dwell in, after agreeing to deal with Adivion.

4)Their dying bodies are possessed by the Ghosts of crusaders from the war against The Whispering Tyrant, who agree to sustain them for the price of facing a proxy of their hated enemy one last time.

Hope some of that helps.

Okay, I'm getting excited for this, especially with the Dragon Orb revelation. Don't know how likely any of these are, but it'd be cool to see:
-Giant King riding a gigantic dragon, leading an invasion.
-Giant Vampires (since giants are technically humanoid, dominate and spawning are good to go)
-War Machines of the Giants (we know they can build monuments, but what else can they make...)
-How giants of different races view one-another. I know that in older editions (and mythology) fire giants and frost giants were mortal enemies, but don't know if this carried over to Pathfinder.
I would honestly worry less about a Ranger plowing through the path than I would an Enchanter. Since giants are all considered humanoids and most have pretty bad will saves, I hope something will help against a 7th level wizard recruiting his own army from within the module.

Ooh, and what if its phylactery was a giant starship powered by the souls of its defeated enemies?

An A.I. Lich might be significantly terrifyin; something that has dozens of housing units sothat it can shift its consciousness to and from as well as robotic, undead minions to animate. It'd be sweet to explore some abandoned complex, only to have cyber-Lich wake up and start animating the place. Then have it animate its main body and join the attack with chainsaws and lasers.

That's actually a pretty cool angle, and I may have to steal it.
On posting: Lots of people, including myself, post their alterations and encounter synapsis on here frequently. There's also a fair amount of campaign journals too, so depending on the nature of your posts, there are open avenues either way. I always like reading other group's takes on an adventure, so I'd say do it.

I know all the Mythology says that Banshees have to be female elves, but what if Oothi were an exception? Assuming your PCs are traveling through Virlych already, it'd be neat to have her bone's destruction facilitate the creation of the Bansheee at

that place:
Renchurch. As to how she gets there, maybe the events of that module combined with the redirective energy of the witchgates brings her all the way to the last one. Might make it more memorable than a "stock" banshee.

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Thanks for posting all that Mikaze! For those of us not able to make the journey this year, its great to get the play-by-play from the seminar.

Genvy Con? When you envy Ge-Con and everyone going to it? Envious enough to contend with Belimarius, wow that is the shiny of shinies.

The biggest things to watch out for is the

Constrict and Quickness abilities. Stress the nature of the wounds on the beast, walls, and anything else. With any luck, your Druid will be packing Freedom of Movement. Otherwise, its going to hit someone for 8d6+18 dmg a turn, which will usually result in a couple of dead PCs. You can slightly mitigate this by having the A.P. make sub-optimal choices during combat (it has no intelligence score) such as using its Web and Moan abilities. In this way you can buy your Pcs time to kill it or for the beast to come to the rescue. I really like the idea of getting The Beast to the lightning spire in an attempt to revive him...

Oh, I also like what you're doing with the Witchgates. Definitely inspiring me for the next module as far as ideas for expanding them. Frankly between those encounters, the weird weather, and Tyrant's Whispers, I should actually be able to challenge my experienced PCs.

+1 to the Harrow Cards. They've given my game that extra thematic cool-ness, especially when the cards used match the encounter they are in artisitically or thematically. Also, the extra Harrow awards are pretty awesome, and with the wrong party composition, the one in the third book could be a necessity.

That Card:
Due to the overabundance of Lycanthropy and few ways to deal with it in that book, The Eclipse's power to make a player immune to Lycanthropy can be a life-saver.

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Deadmanwalking wrote:
FormerFiend wrote:
This is largely why Asmodeus is one of my favorite gods, both in D&D and in Pathfinder. It actually makes sense why people worship him. So many of the evil gods require their worshipers to be insane. It borders on the absurd at times.
Eh. Only Rovagug and Zon Kuthon require that much craziness. Lamashtu is generally only worshiped by crazy humans, but is actually rarely worshiped by humans in general with the monsters who worship her having every reason to do so, and Urgathoa and Norgorber are worshiped by plenty of very sane (if unpleasant) people.

Disagree about Lamashtu. As stated in her write u[, all mothers at least pay her lip-service for fear of deformity of their children. While her true clergy are definitely evil, I have a hard time viewing them as insane; afterall, aren't procreating and maternal instincts a natural part of any community, even if the root values are twisted? At the end of it all, the cultists are simply emulating their patron, procreating for the very reason that anyone does. This isn't an insane motivation, even if the means are violent and bloody. Wanting to mutilate youtself just to see if you can feel anything and destroying things because 'everything sucks' (can someone else extrapolate the motivations for a Rovagug priest?) are about as bat-crazy as you can get.

That's exactly my group composition: 20 point buy with 5 players that reduced to 4 during book 3. We're 2/3 of the way through Book 5, and its worked out well so far.

I haven't run it yet. Our game is on hold until September due to vacations and other things, but once I do I will post something. It will be interesting to see how my Mythic PCs deal with the traitor and friends, especially when I give him some additional reinforcements.

Esoteric Order FTW? But seriously, if you are using the organization, how about prepping the PCs for Virlych with the wealth equivalent of Hetna from the coffers of their order? Afterall, the organization has already shown interest in stopping the WW, so giving the PCs the equivalent of Hetna's treasure in consumables should lessen the sting of missing out on her loot. Items I could see would be scrolls of Breath of Life, Death Ward, Raise Dead, Restoration, and the like.

I know I'll never use the mini in any actual combat (except one the players are destined to lose), but that aside, Lamashtu looks absolutely amazing. I mean, I don't often get creeped out by minis, but dang, good job, belly and all! The supporting cast is also quite impressice- for those of us not in the know, whatsup with Etania's stomach?
I can easily see using Lamashtu as a set-piece in Rise of the Runelords, or a couple other uses.... Now if I can just get you guys to do one for Urgathoa, or better yet, a Daughter of Urgathoa.
Okay, getting more excited about this set....

Tybid, its almost like our groups are running at the same pace. My PCs next encounter is the one you just ran. We won't be running it until the beginning of September unfortunately due to me switch-gaming with the other DM (he runs Kingmaker) and vacations in August. Still, I like reading about how other players fare against certain encounters before I run them.

The Traitor::
Did you run the version straight from the module? I'm curious, because I was planning on using the Tetori Monk rewrite of him; his stats didn't look that impressive to me on paper, but sometimes I underestimate a bad guy's abilities.

-Nightshades: Some of the best CR'd undead in the game IMO. Running Carrion Crown, so these guys are sure to get their use. I particularly like the Nightskitter (CR 12) from Undead Revisited.

-Daemons: For some reason, these guys are fun to run. Maybe its their unusual and awesome abilities or what they represent, but I've had fun with every one I've ran.

-Vampires: So many ways to run them. Also, since their gaze works on all Giants, its fun to utilize such creatures as unconventional minions; my players were horrified when they came upon an imprisoned group of Ogres (blood banks) being forced to do things they would never do, like read, add, tell jokes, and wear human clothes. The only downside is having to custom make such monsters, but I've been having fun pumping out Alchemist, Monk, and other awesome creations with the template.

Will this have anything that is transposable into Virlych? My PCs are halfway through book 5 of Carrion Crown, and I'd love some high level horror to throw at my PCs on top of what's in Shadows at Gallowspire. The September release coincides perfectly with where we'll be then...

Sweet! Like I said, I always love it when anyone takes something I've done and uses it themselves. Its nice to know I am helping to influence games for the better (hopefully).

The research checks help, but aren't essential for defeating the five prisoners. It is a shame if your PCs aren't able to discover any information since all of their backstories are really cool. An alternative approach would be to substitute some of the facts in the research checks with rumors gathered via diplomacy from the townsfolk. In this way, you could give some of the story, albeit through the narrow-minded and prejudice filled eyes of the townsfolk. Truly though, your players have more than enough time to complete the module before the ultimate bad stuff happens. Consider also that it is a horror game, and a lot of that goes with not necessarily knowing why stuff is happening. Remember also that some of the haunts help convey the final moments of the prison, making actively seeking information (or using the Spirit Planchette in the prison) a viable solution to find out what they need. Hope that helps you!

Sorry its taken so long to get this up, here's so more:

Part 2
When a DM runs a group of PCs that includes a Dhampir character in this particular module, there are significant details that can be pertinent to immersing the character believably into the backdrop of vampire culture. Obviously, the PC may have certain ties to any of the key players or events within the module, but how the DM incorporates this is slightly dictated by the Dhampir's choice of background story. This can be tricky since one doesn't want to reveal too many spoilers about the overall plot of the module or the motivations of its players, yet something needs to be there so the Dhampir feels that their blood-line and race is relevant to a plot involving the creatures that may be responsible for their creation. Below are some considerations for DMs running Dhampir PCs in this module, whether its overall background or tying the character thematically to the module.

1)I am the childe o f_______
The important question in a vampire module for a Dhampir will be who created them, why, and how does their relationship (or lack of one) influence the module as a whole. Let's examine the possibilities the module presents as well as those it doesn't. Also, note that this assumes that the Dhampir is playing a Moroi offshoot and not a different breed. Nonetheless, if one were running a group with a Nosferatu blooded PC, I would make the father Ramoska, simply so the PC has further reason to clear the Nosferatu’s name beyond what’s already there.

a)Ludvick Sievrage: This works best in my opinion if the Dhampir in question is the party leader or someone who exerts a lot of dominance in their daily dealings. Having such a powerful figurehead for a father sholud not necessarily be a way to bypass the role-playing required to gain the Vampires’ good graces but rather an opportunity to showcase the themes of agelessness and being locked within a certain timeframe that vampires exude. The dhampir might represent to Ludvick either an earlier emotional failure, a secret shame, or a target of resentment if the Dhampir’s birth killed the mother. In all three cases, the reason for the Dhampir not immediately knowing the location of the Vampire’s court and not immediately being helped by Ludvick is more readily apparent. Whether or not the mother is still alive creates its own interesting dynamic. In any case, solving the vampire murders helps to cement Ludvick's respect for his child, something that would lend itself to good role-playing.

b)Lady Evgenya: One who seems to travel in high circles, and has such would make the Dhampir’s father as high nobility. Yes, I know it’s a given that the Dhampir’s mother should be mortal since it seems inconceivable for a vampire to carry a child. Without even touching Twilight with a 30’ pole, I think in a fantasy world, what's to stop from a creature that drinks the blood of others from using this blood to sustain life? At any rate, if the PC were using this idea, I would recommend the PC have some knowledge of vampire culture, its outer mysteries, and a lot of other information up to the location of the current vampire court. Alternatively, the PC could be invited by a proxy, a la Quinley, to re-attend the court, only to be attacked by Merrick, who has grown paranoid due to the killings taking place near her area. Also, by having Lady Evgenya be linked personally and a likely next target for the vampire killers, it makes the stakes more personal and her plan more appealing. Oh, if one isn’t comfortable with vampires having babies, just have her be turned into one after the Dhampir’s birth and have the father be dead or some noble she turned the tables on and now controls.

c)Merrick Sais: Same birthing situation as Lady Evgenya, except the father could be a ranger, druid, or another in tune with nature. This takes a little bit of finesse since the encounter with Merrick in the greenhouse is worth running and a good chunk of XP. For this reason, there needs to be a reason that the Dhampir wouldn’t want to cross paths with his/her mother. I could see Merrick having a Darwinist view of vampirism as it relates to nature, and would thus choose the best and brightest specimens to become spawn (in my game, she had a dominated group of NPCs defending her grove besides the other defenses). In this regard, there would be a constant need for the dhampir to be powerful enough in her eyes to garner respect coupled with a simultaneous fear that she wants to make the dhampir into the ultimate hunter by turning them. In this way, the fight in the greenhouse becomes a little more personal.

d)Radvir Giovanni: Having Radvir as the Dhampir's father has serious story connotations that must be examined. Foremost among questions is whether or not Radvir is doing what he is doing because of the Dhampir, whether due to events that lead about the Dhampir's birth or possibly as revenge for the Dhampir's exile. Its possible that Radvir sired the dhampir in an attempt to create a mortal agent that he could use to further the Whispering Ways goals, one who could be inserted among men of higher learning such as Professor Lorrimer or Adivion Adrissant. Much of this depends on whatever the DM designates Radvir's motivaion to be, whether its whole-heartedly serving the Way (a srange thing for a vampire), or if its simply an attempt to break free from the bond of master and spawn that exists between vampires and their makers, in this case Ludvick. In this case, its important to stress the theme of slavery represented by this bond, especially in the dealings with the vampires themselves. What also might make this interesting would be Radvir's possible willingness to confide his plans to his child, especially if the company he is traveling with displays a willingness to kill vampires.

e)Other Caliphas Vampire: I wasn't sure from the beginning that the Dhampir PCin my group would live all the way from the first to the fifth module, and it seemed unnecessary to set up a big backstory or reveal future plot-points when the PC in question might die ignobly along the ay (there's lots of places for this, its a pretty lethal AP, and Dhampirs aren't the most survivable races). To my surprise, the typically headstrong player has one of the few PCs to have survived all the way to this module, so towards the end of the fourth one, I asked him to come up with a backstory. While he did a great job doing so, I was hard pressed to integrate the module's players in with what he had written without giving to much away.

His Backstory:
. Basically, he's born to a noble vampire named Lucien, a vampire who serves with Ludvick's court but is not one of his children. The dhampir's mother survived his birth and eventually was turned into a vampire. The dhampir was raised in vampire culture (I allowed him to roll his Knowledge: Nobility with a +4 circumstance bonus for determining etiquette, and even if he were untrained, would have still let him roll it.) He falls in love with the human sister of one of his rivals, an elitist vampire named Reylis. For whatever reason (reasons I came up with for the Dhampir to unravel), his mother was killed in a blood ritual by the Whispering Way, resulting in a series of rash words and acts. Ultimately, his perceived lack of credentials in the eyes of the vampire nobles leads him to fight a duel against Reylis, which he loses. He is exiled until he comes into the service of the Professor some years later. When the player provided all this information, i decided that I needed more vampire nobles than just Ludvick and Lady Evgenya for him to interact with, so created Reylis and had his father Lucien still be alive.
If the PC has a reason to seek out the vampire father in question, nothing is more compelling than the possibility of that vampire becoming a target of Radvir.

f)Other Non-Caliphas Vampire: If not for my player's backstory, this would have been the route I had taken. A Dhampir could easily be the result of the experimentations of Conte Ristomir Tiriac since he is known to be seeking a cure for vampirism. and the PC could be a by-product of such endeavors. In this way, the Count could provide early incentive for the PCs to help Ramoska Arkminos. Dealing with the Whispering Way could have been a misguided attempt to further the Count's research into the cure. In any case, this sort of background creates the possibility of both distrust due to being an outsider but also possible acceptance on the merit of name recognition and the value of bloodlines.

2)My mother is ______________

a)Alive: If the Dhampir's mother is alive (or father), consider using them as bait or a hostage by Radvir once he knows that he is being investigated. Also, consider thematically what the mother represents to the Dhampir, that last link to the characters humanity. This can be important if one plays up the constant temptation given by the vampires to join them, to gain great power at the cost of humanity and servitude. In this way, it could be relevant to showcase the freely given love between the Dhampir and parent versus the forced love implied through the vampiric bond. Finally, there could be feelings of resentment between the parent and the Dhampir, feelings brought upon by everything that the Dhampir could represent, whether shame that their one child isn't normal or the need to forgot the trauma that brought about the Dhampir's existence.

b)Dead: If this is the case, how did she die? If the Dhampir's birth was the cause of her death, it is easy enough to foster a wall of resentment between the Dhampir and his creator. Overcoming the blame for such a thing could prove a crucial moment of role-playing for gaining acceptance into the vampire underworld, or could be used (in the case of Radvir) as a reason for going down a darker path. If it is not the birthing that killed her, how or why did she die? Its reasonable that the creation of a Dhampir could be a social blunder if not a crime in vampire culture. Afterall, having something walking around in broad daylight that proves the existence of vampires seems to run cross purpose to the secretive means of vampire society. Its conceivable that the mother is killed in retribution for the Dhampir's birth, while the Dhampir ix exiled from vampire culture. Finally, its possible to involve her death with the Whispering Way, as my player attempted to do. This took a bit of a re-write of the module, which I'll explain below.

c)A Vampire: Its entirely possible that after the birth of the Dhampir, the mother could be completely seduced by vampires and decide to turn. I would caution against a stable, loving relationship between the two vampire parents and the Dhampir; you don't want an Adam's family scenario where hilarity ensues. However, having one of the parents be a suspect in the vampire killings could add a bit of personal depth to the investigations, especially if one of the vampires is not part of vampiric society as a whole. This is entirely conceivable if the birth of the Dhampir is frowned upon by the society as a whole. Finally, while this seems cheesy, its entirely possible for Quinley to be a brother or half-brother to the Dhampir PC, making him more memorable. This would mean that one of the first vampiric victims would be the PCs mother, raising the stakes on the investigation.

3)My Rivals in Vampire Society are _________

A lot of this depends on who the Dhampir's parents are, what weight that carries, and how vampire society as a whole views the Dhampir's existence. Think about the list of players and how each of them would regard the PC if they are the child of a particular vampire. For example, a child of Merrick could be looked down upon by the more effite vampires such as Lady Evgenya for their lack of social graces, while a child of Ludvick would inspire jealousy and mistrust in any of his other children. In any case, having a rival creates a connection that allows the NPC to expand upon the Dhampir’s past based on their interactions, whether actively aggressive or passively so. In this case, I used by PCs backstory to create Reylis, an unaffiliated vampire who views vampirism as an ultimate perfection of nobility and fighting prowess; aside from getting by Merrick, my PCs encountered this vampire en route to Ludvick’s who demanded a duel from the Dhampir to prove his worth (first to hit three times, Duelist vs Magus basically, with the Magus Dhampir getting the upper hand due to tricks like True Strike and Arcane points. At any rate its important for the PCs to constantly feel like they are being judged and evaluated by the other vampires, whether as potential future spawn, as pawns to be manipulated, or as rivals to be eliminated.

4) My story changes I’m using the basic framework of the module itself, but like Broken Moon have expanded a lot of stuff due to the use of Mythic and the PCs backstory. Here’s what I’ve done:
-Ludvick Sievrage is Mythic, in fact at the highest tier that a vampire can achieve making him the most ancient and powerful of his kind.
-Ludvick’s direct children also have potential to be Mythic but have never achieved it, with one exception.
-Ludvick’s direct children are Merrick, Radvir, Evgenya, and another vampire I made up, Alverith.
-Alverith took to the study of Urgathoa, which lead her traveling to fulfill her desire for newer and bolder experiences.
-During these wanderings, she, not the witches found the Blood Knight Konas Esprillian.
-The Blood Knight is a powerful Mythic being, having been exposed to the necromantic energies of his old master, Tar Baphon.
-Some fifty years ago, Alverith learned a way to not only break the bond between her and Ludvick but also fueled her own Mythic ascension, utilizing the blood of the Blood Knight and further necromantic magic.
-Radvir wanted to be free as well, but was rebuffed by Alverith. When this happened, he attempted to start a war between Alverith’s growing band of Urgathoan vampires and Ludvick’s court. This was done by killing the Dhampir PCs mother and blaming it on the WW. When Luien, the Dhampir’s father became aware, he wanted revenge. He was stopped by Ludvick from carrying out his plan but always carried a grudge. He attempted to utilize his son as a proxy for his revenge, but in order to have the social weight to influence such a decision,he needed to win a duel against his most vocal opponent, Reylis. When this failed, the Dhampir was exiled. Through all of this, Radvir was able to spin the truth so that Alverith’s cabal of Urgathoans were made to be allies of the Whispering Way.
-Radvir, having failed to break his bond, began making contacts not only among the WW, but also with other powers, which included the coven of witches lead by the Had Oothi.
-Almost a decade after his initial visit, Radvir realized that with the witches knowledge of Blood Magic and the power of the Blood Knight, it was possible that he could create a plan that would not only free him but all vampires and spawn from their masters’ control. He met again with Alverith, but his true intentions were to scout her lair for weaknesses. Seeing through his plan, she dismissed them then secretlly contracted a group of adventureres to hunt down and kill the hags. This is where Oothi’s not-so-final end comes and the Dublesses escape. Fueled by revenge, they used Radvir’s connections to contact someone who also had a grudge against Alverith, the Dhampir’s father Lucien.
-They attacked Alverith’s lair, killing none due to the nature of vampires but in the end stealing the Blood Knight and whisked him back to their lair, where the beginnings of the Bloodbrew elixer came about. While initially they agreed to Radvir’s plan of freeing all vampires, they realized that Mythic ascension was a greater goal for them, beyond restoring their mentor. In this regard, the twins are slightly divided in that one simply wants more power while the other seeks to restore her mentor.
-The Uragthoan cabal still exists and are used as a red herring and scapegoat for the PCs to go after, beyond learning the truth.
-While the Pharasmans won’t help the PCs for reasons listed above, the Church of Iomedae sends forth the Paladin who is eventually turned into a vampire. This was tricky to pull off since I had to get the Paladin killed and taken to become a vampire without the PCs stopping it from happening. It worked.
-The Urgathoans are assaulted by the PCs in an ancient playhouse at the lowest level of catacombs. The other vampires in Ludvick’s court made it clear that Alverith preferred taking the most powerful adventurers and turning them, giving them righteous cause for killing every vampire in the place. This consisted of about three different parties of vampires the PCs faced, culminating with Alverith (Urathoan Death Priest from NPC Codex with Mythic Vampire template thrown on.) Since I knew my PCs were going to negotiate with Ludvick’s court and I hate to not use several pages of printed stats, Desmond Kote and Florian Lamoroth were ported into the Urgathoan vampire parties.
-I did this because I knew my PCs wanted a proper vampire slaying scenario, with tons of vampires, traps, and all of that fun stuff. While some of this will be done with Radvir’s hideout and the Witche’s lair, I wanted a whole-hearted ‘Theatre des Vampires’ thing going, which this let me do. My PCs have just cleared out this lair and will be chasing down Radvir next. (in a month or so, our game’s going on hiatus in August while vacations and other stuff happen, and since we’re at the halfway point of the module, we’re switching back to Kingmaker that one of the players in my group runs for the rest of us, so I get to play too)
-Bloodbrew elixer grants Mythic power while under its effects for the spawn ingesting it, making its addiction even more insidious.

Hope any or all of the above helps to stoke the creative flames for anyone running this excellent module. Note that I didn’t expressly rewrite the main framework of the module, I think the author has done a fine job with the overall story. I also am very grateful for all the input he’s given on the DM thread for this module. Its helped to make some of the above ideas work as well as creating a memorable experience for my players.

Sorry, couldn't resist. Back to the over/under CR'ing!

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Tels wrote:

Why have shadows not killed every one? Pfft... they're lazy and that takes effort.

Besides, worldwide genocide is too mainstream.

[Edit] Think about it. They don't need sun glasess, they are sun glasses. You can't get any cooler than that.

So shadows are... hipsters? " (Scoffs) We're from the Plane of Shadow, you've probably never heard of it but we lived there before it was cool."

That helps soften them a little, shadows seem to be the alpha ambush predator of the Pathfinder world. Wasn't it you that did the thread about why shadows haven't completely overrun Golarion?
Anyways, disagree that running is even an option from Shadows. Fly 30 and incorporeal will win that race everytime.

(Worries he can't make the opposed charisma check to make Matt Damon perform tasks against his nature. Decides to send him back and pulls out a mirror.)


(Speculates by the above words that he might have been sent to the world where the Wheel of Time takes place. Better hope he can't learn how to Channel.)

(Crap, I summoned him. Didn't know it worked like Pazuzu)

I'm gonna guess its between a 6 and 7 figure digit, if it can be priced at all. I was under the impression that the Hellfire Flumes were artifact level in terms of power. Afterall, they decimated armies with their use..

Still it'd be cool to defend Sandpoint with fiery lasers.. :)

Erik Mona wrote:

I don't really have any "re do" figures in the hopper anyway, so after this set you probably won't need to worry about it.

There are a few devils in Skull & Shackles, but beyond that I've sort of been waiting for a "theme" to come along that lets me do a bunch of them at once. Same with demons.

On a different note, we always hold back several hundred of each promo figure for later sales, so don't worry about missing one if you don't make the associated show.

As long as you pay attention, you should be able to pick up all of the promos here before they run out.

...and this is why I continue to buy your minis and other products. Erik Mona (and others) rolling 20 on their customer service Diplomacy check.

wraithstrike wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
MagusJanus wrote:
wraithstrike wrote:
Alex Smith 908 wrote:
Wow the canon golem is weak. How is 56 damage per round CR 15 which no other abilities or movement types?
The low damage for a CR 15 is 52 and the high damage is 70. He is barely meeting the low mark and he is a combat(damage) based creature. He needs to be doing at least 8d6+7 per shot to meet 70, but since all they can do is damage I would have him at 10 or 11 d6.
I think the reason he is so weak is the "cannon" part of his attack list. Specifically, that it was intended to use firearms rules. However, the cannon is an Ex ability that includes no text to support that intention.
Firearms were not mentioned so i think it uses the normal attack, but even if both attacks hit his damage is still below par so it won't matter all that much, and since he can misfire one a 1 or 2, it may actually not really help.
The Golem gets Gun Training as an Ex ability.

Getting one ability does not mean they get everything else, and the ability is not written exactly like the class ability.

PS: As an aside giving several different abilities the same name in this game is annoying.

PS2: I think that after a certain CR Golems should have some intelligence, even if it is low.

Right? The lack of feats utterly kills golems. It reduces them to melee sluggers who are easily outwitted by dozens of builds.

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That makes him slightly better, but since its a Golem with no intelligence, its never going to have feats to capitalize on it. The thing is gonna hit most likely anyway, touch attack or not.

Its the 140 hp.. a 14th level party will chew through that in a round. I've noticed its typically really hard to Under-CR at higher levels. Other than some of the Tane (Jabberwock, Bandersnatch), there aren't a lot of monsters that are a death sentence to fight if the party is 3 levels under the CR.

Edit: Winterwight might be another hard fight, if its DCs were just a little higher.

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Not saying you should do this, but it'd be funny to have him get a few levels of Gunslinger. Imagine the shock when he pulls out a cannon from his belt like a gun and begins firing it!

How would you make a Shadow weaker (young template doesn't work, makes it more powerful)? I guess maybe Give it a save for the strength dmg? Vice-versa for the wraith. DC 16 fortitude save making your pcs laugh? Remove the save and make it con dmg instead. That is exactly why Shadows are ten times worse than Wraiths... the lack of save.

Woops, meant Cloaker, not Choker. Forgot the Basi's were medium. I would still like some Dark, Lunar, or Water Naga as well.
I get why everyone's so pro-troll, since the minis need to appeal to the newer buyer as well as those of us who have been collecting the minis before there were PF ones. Personally, if I opened a box and saw my large uncommon is a troll, I'd be disappointed. Like I said, lone voice of dissent.

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I played through the entirety of STAP, and by the last four modules, we were regularly curb stomping Mariliths and Balors, one shotting Hezrous, and just being terrible to demon-kind in general. These guys would have given me fits. Very well done Ashiel. The Mosh of Terror in particular gives the Balor more action economy without increasing his actions exponentially. Also, I really like the secondary abilities and spells you gave them.

On topic, I feel that the Purple Worm is another one that's really over CR'd. It needs to be Vermin so it can benefit from immunity to mind effects. I can count at least four separate instances of play were the worm got charmed, put to sleep, and other ridiculous fates due to its atrocious Will save. (+4 on a CR 12??? Better roll 20s against every save or suck coming at you.

Mazra wrote:
Rakshaka wrote:
Do we really need another troll??

YES! The DDM versions are of a style completely different from the Pathfinder versions. They do not look right together on the gaming table.

(I am not debating the aesthetics of one versions' over the other. That is a simple matter of ones taste. For what it is worth, I didn't care for Pathfinder Trolls at first. But they have grown on me since the Troll Champion.).

The first Heroes and Monsters Troll as we all know was too small. The Troll Champion was special, as was the Scrag. Pathfinder needed a standard Troll within their style, and correctly sized. This appears to perfectly fit that need.

Again, completely disagree with the choice of a troll as one of the valuable large slots. I would take any of the following rare or not-yet made minis over one with 9+ incarnations:

Devils (no really, we get every demon ever, but no devils??)
Flesh Golem
Shambling Mound

...and that's not even touching Bestiary 2. I have to wonder if I'll ever see a representation of Qlippoth, or Daemons, or lots of other Paizo-flavored monsters that have yet to have any sort of mini for them.

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I'm gonna be the lone voice of dissent here, but I think this objection is valid:
I don't want to see older minis from the line that we're not pleased with 'ret-conned' with a new figure. It sets a dangerous precedent for future minis and limits the diversity within the line as a whole. Yes, the troll from Heroes and Monsters was quite undersized. However, there have already been five troll minis in the PF line alone (not counting the 4+ from DDM) that can serve as proxies for this. Do we really need another troll?? The valuable large slot could have been used for anything else, specifically other versions of the 12+ giants that have only seen one mini or none. Sure, its a good looking troll. Do I need another version to join the 8+ sculptts of them that I have? I understand the troll-love, but please be considerate in the future about what has already been done.
Also, not to nitpick further, but the Intellect Devourer was also done quite well in the DDM line, and due to its niche-ness as a psionic monster at the time, is pretty easy to get a hold of.

Again, not trying to be a jerk, but I am not excited about this particular mini set so far. It almost feels like "Everything that got cut from Runelords and Shattered Star Set"...

Now I want Banshees to have the Vital Strike chain (ducks...)
(pops back up) I suppose ghost warriors would break the CR the same. An 11th level Warrior Ghost with the vital strike chain hitting for 33d6 at a CR 11 is bad.. and that's before templates and other stuff.

Patch 2.10, Super Nephalim rifts and other stuff...

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I did a thread about this as far as under-CR'd monsters a bit ago. The link is here.
I'm still of the opinion that Shadows are the worst. Nothing like a surprise round critical hit to kill any non-martial character of any level. Oh, now you're fighting another shadow too...
As far as over-CR'd I think the following are:
All Oozes Pathfinder took the oomph out of oozes for some reason. Maybe its the argument about energy damage not overcoming hardness, or their universal slow speed, or their poor ACs, or their low to hit bonus for their CR. Oozes use to be terrifying, now they are underwhelming at best. There are exceptions (Colour out of Space), but anything capable of speed 30 and a ranged attack laughs at oozes. I wish their attacks resolved as touch attacks.
Gargoyes I think DR is understated for its CR, and the gargoyle is the prime example of this. I'm hard pressed to think of many adventuring groups who by 4th or 5th level not having magic weapons. Sure, they got lots of attacks, but they aren't at a high enough bonus which coupled with their AC, means little threat. They should be able to grab people and carry them off, but the rules say no without extra feats.
Golems (Flesh, Clay Iron) From Create Pit to Grease to Alchemist Fire or simply Power Attack and a two-handed weapon, Golems are too over-CR'd due to its calaculation from DR and its magic immunity. There are too many spells that don't require SR that can single-handedly shut down the creatures, and enough magic items (from Golembane Scarabs to Adamantine Weapons) that their defensive abilities mean little... which makes them slow moving, easily out-witted sluggers whose only hope is to hit with that melee attack. There are many exceptions with the newer ones, but the classic three above just aren't that scary.

My biggest thing is getting 2 out of 3 of the Legendary Relics for companions. Both the one for the Templar and the one for the Scoundrel that I picked up have the following suffix: "As long as this is equipped, your follower cannot die." I assume there's one for the Sorceress that does the same as well. They definitely make soloing easier, having everything pile on an indestructible follower.
Oh, also finally got my first Legendary Potion, the one that gives you +5000 life-per-kill for 5 seconds when used.

Haven't forgotten this, our group's play schedule got kind of messed up these last two weeks. I will post when I am not burned out on working 60+ hours for the week. (New Orleans, tomato fest and other such depravities.)

Ninja'd, and a pretty good answer. I like the implications on meta-gaming as well, Ziertole. Thanks, more or less what 'm looking for, interpretations of the rules that aren't quite written.

So, statistic buffs, or in fact, most Transmutation effects as a whole have visible or noticeable effects that can be deduced as to having been dispelled if such a thing occurs.
I guess what I'm mainly concerned with then are Abjuration effects like Protection from Evil, Resist Energy, Death Ward, and See Invisibility, stuff without any real visible effect until is interacted with. Do PCs sense the magic of such spells affecting them or is it more of a passive thing that's just 'there'? The four spells listed above are limited examples, a lot of buffs I can think of (almost all Transmutation, but stuff like Mage Armor, Shield, Good Hope, and many others) have visible effects.

Perhaps, but on an in-game level, it definitely affects what actions a character takes based on their knowledge of the situation. A Paladin with Death Ward up won't think twice about charging the head vampire, possibly taking Attacks of Opportunity that would normally inflict level drain from the dozens of spawn around him. Without this spell, his tactics change significantly, probably trying to bottle-knock and isolate the numerous spawn before engaging the leader, fighting defensively to avoid the dangerous level-drain.

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