Anthropomorphized Rabbit

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Organized Play Member. 8,178 posts (8,365 including aliases). 20 reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 1 Organized Play character. 13 aliases.


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Hmm... Honestly, I think it's fair to let them have it.

"Most of the difficulty in performing rituals of creation is in seeding the creator's influence. If one can obtain the ritual and ingredients, it's not difficult to call up something too strong to put down, assumingone has no care for self-preservation. This is a significant part of why such rituals are not widely shared."

Now, I think that makes a lot more sense for Occultism than Arcana, but it still works.


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This is why I only ever cast illusions of traps.


Sadly, Soldier's main ability doesn't work with grenades, or I would have given that a look.

Hmm... That does make me think, though, that weaseling allowing certain Starfinder consumables on Pathfinder isn't a bad fit for cookbook, and it would allow using strength for the DC of grenades.

I don't think he does enough maneuvers or zipping about to be a Daredevil. And, as much as I'm eager to slap Thaumaturge on everything (effective d8 kicks!), I don't think that fits either- none of the implements are right and it's squishier than Monk. On the alchemy side, Alchemist definitely fits better than Fireworks Technician.

Yeah, for something Carl-inspired, that's going to be the closest. I'd certainly consider the other options for something more loosely inspired, since giving yourself a little more wiggle room is how you get a more fun original character to play.

Obligatory mention that the Dungeon Crawler Carl TTRPG and card game are being kickstarted on Backerkit, but I imagine that may have been the inspiration.


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Waldham wrote:
Does Cavalier with pledge give an other dedication at the same level that cavalier dedication ? Or does it permit to take the other dedication feat at the following available class feat ?

"Special If you have pledged yourself to a cause, you can take a second dedication feat closely tied to that cause even if you haven’t taken two additional cavalier feats."

"Can take" is pretty clear. You can take it; you don't get it for free.


Waldham wrote:

Is it possible to use the archetype iridian choirmaster with an eidolon as student ?

With the Lesson of Unified Elusion and Shared Mind, Shared Heart ?

Is it possible only with manifest eidolon, not meld into eidolon ?

PFS does not allow it. However, eidolons specifically call out not being minions, so some GMs may allow it in home games despite the PFS rule.

Unified Elusion requires that you both be targeted, and implicitly, you must both roll. Melding will not meet those conditions. Keep in mind that you take the better die roll, but Summoner says you take the worse result, so effectively you use the worse modifier.

Mostly the same for Shared Heart, Shared Mind, but a GM may cause a mental effect to hit both minds, in which case it would apply.


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OceanshieldwolPF 2.5 wrote:

Real question for you centaur fans. How many of you have played centaurs that were in dungeoneering parties that encountered…rope ladders, rope access, ladders, hatchways - all the things centaurs aren’t really that…good…at?

Sure, there is “but…magic” to help, however sometimes even magic ain’t going to assist…

What does the centaur…do? I guess there are other ancestries that suffer similarly…lamias, ol’ yuan ti types, bariaur from Planescape etc…

Not a centaur fan, but I can answer.

Ladders are easy. Adventuring centaurs get their hooves reworked from strictly flat, or wear specialized leg armor that can slot a support down, giving them a way to rest their weight on their legs on a ladder without their hoof just sliding off. They have to really lean forward and it's uncomfortable as hell, but it gets the job done.

Hatchways are easy too- centaurs are large, so it's a combination of using their upper torso to pull up and the hind legs to kick off of the ground.

Climbing a rope presumably takes special gear (climbing kit), but for any creature, it's just a matter of figuring out how to translate how they normally get around into climbing. In a centaur's case, that's a ratcheting setup they can put their hooves onto, using two ropes instead of one. The goal is just to get something that lets everyone suspend their disbelief and move on, after all.


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Having once played a grapple character in 1e and had a miserable time because of it, I would never take this. "Coin flip on taking something out of the fight, every combat" is a great example of optimizing the fun out of the game.


This is the type of rules question it's important to avoid answering ahead of time, so that in the one-in-a-thousand games where it matters at a dramatic moment, you can have a properly impassioned argument about it using motivated reasoning on both sides.

Or, for my actual answer: you halve it after combining when you're playing in person because that's more expedient, and you halve each damage before combining when you're using a digital tabletop because that's what the rules say and the computer doesn't care.


Dimitris wrote:
Do we know whether we are going to have a new related mythic destiny?

The product page didn't mention one, and that seems like the sort of thing you would mention on a product page.


It's a skill feat to become trained in a skill.

It's a skill feat to get a scaling Lore.

The (Ancestry) Lore feats normally give the equivalent of three skill feats, but with the options all pre-selected.

Giving Shisk the equivalent of four skill feats with only one option pre-selected seems potentially stronger than the others.

Now, are skill feats all actually balanced with each other? Obviously not! But I'm willing to use that as a point of comparison to start with.

As a GM, what I would probably do is handle it based on what the player wants. If it's lores that are campaign-based things that seem useful, that should probably remain trained (except Shisk Lore). If it's three interests of the character that are iffy on whether they'll come up more than once, I'd let them get the full Additional Lore treatment on all of them.


Looking back at it, I would also strike Martial Artist off the list for Sajan. The dedication is a dead feat on Monk, and I think for the iconics, you especially want to avoid that.


I definitely agree that it's more in the spirit of things to avoid multiclass archetypes on the iconics. Sorry in advance for not including links; I've only got so much time this morning.

(One useful tidbit I'll add in based on your suggestions- Kineticist MC is actually a very poor choice if you want offensive options. Because it is tied to a low-proficiency class DC that is always on an off-stat, most of the offensive options will be really unreliable past level 7. It's good for elemental utility and support instead, since those mostly don't rely on that forever-low Kineticist archetype class DC.)

- Amiri's definitely good with Mauler, adding some combat options that don't rely on rage.

- You're 100% correct on Ezren having Pathfinder Agent.

- Feiya getting Ritualist isn't a bad idea, although with PF2 making her familiar more dramatic, I would also consider Familiar Master. (It's a shame that Familiar Sage doesn't start until 4th level and doesn't function right correctly when you take it with Familiar Master on a class that starts with a familiar, since that's the perfect archetype.)

- Harsk getting Scout feels pretty fitting to me, yeah. Archer feels like a mostly dead dedication on Ranger, since you already get crit spec, and advanced crossbows aren't bringing much to the table. (Yes, Harsk would be better off with a regular bow, but I'm generally trying to keep the iconics mostly looking the same.)

- For Kyra, I would also consider Blessed One as an option for her, giving her a focus point healing option. Medic is solid, since Medicine is one of her main skills. I would rule out class archetypes like Battle Harbinger, seeing as those also move away from the idea of an "iconic".

- Lem grabbing Archaeologist makes sense, although Loremaster might capture it a little better. As for "obvious" Bard options, Dandy is a good fit for Lem. As mentioned, even if you do use multiclass archetypes, Kineticist is a poor fit for offense, and Bard has a hard time maxing out constitution.

- Lini would really benefit from Beastmaster with how many feats it has for animal companions, although that would also require her picking another Druid order so that the dedication isn't giving her a second companion that you would have to come up with. (Reflavoring it as a special Nature-based healing/resurrection, though, isn't bad- swap Droogami One out for Droogami Two, and it's like they've been healed up.) Herbalist is also a solid option, like you mention.

- Merisiel could take Assassin, Scout, or Acrobat. Sadly, Dual-Weapon Warrior doesn't work great with Rogue's precision damage, but it is an option that includes a few useful feats, and the dedication still helps the class out when it can't get its off-guard or faces precision immunity.

- Sajan doesn't qualify for Elementalist, since he's not a caster class. There are plenty of "more Monk" archetypes: Student of Perfection, Jalmeri Heavenseeker, Martial Artist, and Spirit Warrior all stand out. Cultivator is also a good fit. If you want that elemental theme, Student of Perfection is the way to go.

- Seelah grabbing Marshall makes sense. Blessed One would offload the Lay On Hands feats and let her take the alternate focus spell for Champions. Bastion gives some additional shield options.

- Seoni grabbing Runescarred would make sense, but it's unfortunately not especially compatible with the Remaster. It requires picking a school of magic, and spells are no longer divided up that way. There isn't a whole lot that fits her super well, so I'd probably go with Scroll Trickster to get some versatility onto Sorcerer. Actually- she used to have a familiar, and unlike Feiya, Sorcerer no longer starts with a familiar, so going Familiar Master into Familiar Sage works just fine. There's even a familiar ability to turn into a tattoo like her old familiar could.

- Valeros grabbing Bastion is something I definitely agree with.

Hope that's helpful!


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I'll start with the mechanical side of things, although I admit that something simply titled "Lost Omens: Darklands" would probably be mostly or entirely lore-focused. I would really appreciate some more aberration-focused options on the player side. In particular, an aberration eidolon for Summoner and an aberration instinct for Barbarian would both be very enjoyable additions. (I will also happily count "black blood instinct barbarian".)

With that out of the way...

For Darklands regions I'd particularly like to see covered, the ysoki region/"empire" of Diguo-Dashu would solidly earn my "flip to this first". A section with some of the Vaults of Orv feels like practically a given, and while it's not my first stop, it's definitely the thing I'd feel most cheated to not have included.

I would also be interested in a slightly more ancestry-oriented look at the Darklands. Something that covers where kobolds, ysoki, dwarves, cavern elves, and other traditionally subterranean ancestries/heritages all fit in.


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It depends on their Dying value.


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I really appreciate having the reminder call out the biggest early takeaways like this, as well as having the blogs link to a forum thread on the topic. Thanks to the team for that extra effort that went into each part!


You're on the price increase topic, and it's been a month since you mentioned anything else specifically.

They have addressed the Foundry bundle matter, even if it's not to your satisfaction.

Personally, I find it helpful to consider what things would be like in the reverse situation. (Setting aside the price increases, of course, because Paizo can't do much about how much everything costs these days.)

If we moved from the new store to the old store, I'd be happy about the new discount on Foundry modules if you own the PDF, sure. But I'd be really annoyed at how much worse digital-only customers were being treated! Instead of having points on anything we purchased, good for free Foundry modules, there would only be incentives for subscribers who are paying for shipping. It'd be especially annoying since subscribers would no longer be guaranteed to get their PDFs early. Plus, why would Paizo get rid of multiple forms of international payment, and something as common as PayPal? All to go to a store that looks worse.

When you look at it that way around, it's a bit easier to see why they moved ahead to the new store, even if they didn't have a fix for the VTT bundling yet. For myself, I no longer need to clear the browser cache to buy stuff on Paizo's site, and I have more than half a dozen free modules waiting for me to pick out within the next half-year.

---

And, I do want to be fair, or at least more fair than just what's above- it's clear plenty of people do agree with your unhappy sentiments. I don't actually expect a post from a random forumgoer to address wanting to hear specific concerns addressed by Paizo. But... I think you might need to remain a little more specific than "threw digital customers under the bus" if you want anything addressed. Because I'm a digital customer who is better off than before, again setting aside "inflation has been a real bear everywhere I spend money".


Dang, I was looking forward to reading over this after work.


It helps some classes stay fresh. Thaumaturge has some fun base abilities at the expense of their feats mostly belonging to a few tracks- letting them really dig into their archetypes instead of going "I guess I'll get the scrolls line again..." is good.


Since knowing about stars is Nature, I would use that as the non-Society option for novians.


One enemy. ("The enemy's...")

Range is probably supposed to be 30ft. like the other feat, but it's missing the range.


Alchemist archetype daily prep. And, with GM permission, mid-level tentacle potion to be able to use his tail to interact with the Horn of Plenty while dual-wielding frying pans.


NorrKnekten wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Don't you mean 12 damage instead of 84? Cataclysm lowers effective resistance.
Wouldn't it be 60 since its 5 different damage types? I don't think you apply the resistance individually to the 3 parts that all do bludgenoning.

Ah, it does note that it's five damage types, yes.


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juanpcortesg wrote:
NorrKnekten wrote:

They do mention most of those questions in the FAQ itself though? The blog states that some of the reasons for the changes are within the erratum after all.

Quote:
Resistance to all damage or to a wide array of damage (such as physical damage) also applies only once. This is a big change to the status quo! Most monsters with resistances like these aren’t balanced around resisting multiple types of damage per hit, so this is unlikely to significantly change how they play. There is a rule about applying multiple resistances to the same type, but a multi-type resistance can be applied to the most beneficial damage type if it could apply more than one.
Same with enemies attacking PCs, they typically only deal a single type of damage in vast majority of cases, this is typically not going to change anything, even going into level 15+.

That is again not saying much imo. OR at least not as much as I would like for a change that impacts so many options and core features of many enemies and pcs.

Which monsters with resistance were not balanced around resisting multiple damage types? Ghosts almost universally have really low HP for their level and they dropped like flies if you had access to ghost touch, which is now a lot weaker in it's supposed niche. What about character options? Was champion also reducing more damage than intended? What about blur or barbarian's unstoppable juggernaut? What about multi damage type spells? Were they written with the expectation of being weaker against a subsection of enemies or was that also not balanced around?

For the record I think this way of handling resistance is more intuitive and easier to balance around. But it seems like such a fundamental shift in game balance, now a champion protecting their ally from cataclysm reduces only 22 damage instead of 154 as before. This is probably the most extreme example I can think of but it is not outside of the realm of possibility.

Don't you mean 12 damage instead of 84? Cataclysm lowers effective resistance.


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Ravingdork wrote:
When the day comes that Paizo decides it is no longer worth it to maintain official forum communities like this one, we'll only have ourselves to blame.

I certainly appreciate all the work that's gone into keeping them going so long after so many other companies have ditched them for unofficial communities on social sites/apps so they don't need to host or moderate.


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I'll definitely be explaining it as being "resist any" in more practical terms on the rare occasion it comes up on the player side. It allows for a quick, intuitive understanding of what's going on.


Paizo is made up of people. Based on what we've seen in the past, those people have the freedom to comment on design philosophy if they want, but it isn't part of their required duties. A good number of the developers who chose to comment have since chosen to go off and do something else.

You seem to want official design commentary to be part of the duties, possibly via a proxy. As you can see from the comments, not everyone feels that's necessary.

Paizo also chooses to put their efforts elsewhere. Compared to D&D, Paizo has provided more official feedback on class playtests... because they have more new class playtests. Compared to D&D, Paizo has provided more feedback through their official forums... because they are still maintaining forums.

Paizo does do monthly streams over on Twitch, with VODs uploaded to YouTube. They choose to have those focus more on upcoming material.

Anyway, finally failed my will save on replying, so I'll leave it at that.


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Love the action economy improvements to Mutagenist and Toxicologist got to their very difficult to use field vials. It helps them feel like they have some things going for them that the archetype version doesn't.


Dracomicron wrote:
My question about Rip, Tear is why it doesn't apply to the claw version of the narural weapons feat. Doesn't it make the jaw attack strictly the better choice?

The claws are agile and finesse with the same damage as the jaws. d6 damage is already just about the maximum that agile is allowed to do at level 5. Getting some d6 bleed on there would be a lot.


I don't play casters much, since I also have issues playing them, but my approach is to spontaneous casters is getting the following for each rank: one "optimal" spell (things like Haste that are just always good), either one solid damage spell for a high rank or one spell that heightens usefully for low rank, and one completely free choice. Four-slot casters get an extra free choice. For cantrips, two boring, practical damaging cantrips (one for longer range, one for multi-target) before I start grabbing the flavorful stuff.

Picking only the best spells isn't fun, but it's also good to have solid fallbacks that do something useful. It's striking a balance with the system as best as I can.

From there, get a fun gimmick spell (like Invisible Item) on a wand, a few circumstantial low-level spells, and if possible, a staff for anything low-level you want to spam.

Now, in practical terms, what I actually do is play a lot of Thaumaturges, Kineticists, and now Commander. I suspect that Necromancer will join the list, since "spam thralls and focus spells" handles a lot of combat.


I'll just chime in that the best fix for early APs, or just the problem your group is running into in general, is for the GM to give the PCs one extra level over what's expected. That extra +1 and early proficiency bump really helps out a lot! It takes the pressure off the group to be so optimal and coordinated.


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It's so rare for the Sickened debuff's restriction on eating and drinking to impact enemies at all, so I would absolutely let it work in this sort of situation.


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Elric200 wrote:
James could we get a god of Rogues that is path who's not a murderous Psychopath no need to do the current one in just one who is natural and not evil.

Here's a list of all the deities with thievery or stealth as their skill who don't allow unholy sanctification. And, because I know that "Rogue" covers a variety of things, here's the list with deception added in as well.


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Paizo could have never really gone with 2.5e or PF2.5.

Imagine, if you will, Paizo setting out to remove as many lingering traces of D&D-isms as feasible. For legal reasons, they need to be sure that the casual consumer doesn't confuse it with Dungeons & Dragons. It's a massive undertaking. What do they call it? Well, they sure can't follow the exact naming convention that D&D used for their major mid-edition overhaul that Pathfinder came out of.

Using 2.5 would have been shooting themselves in the foot when it came to the actual goal of the Remaster. Sure, D&D doesn't have ownership over decimal versions, but it could still be brought up to help show a larger pattern for the civil case. D&D formally adopting 5.5e just means that Paizo definitely can't do that for the Remaster.


Seventh Seal wrote:

Cloud nymphs (Nephelae) are a thing in Greek mythology though...

Also, Pathfinder already has nymphs of sunsets (Hesperids) & seasons (Hora), and neither of those represent permanent landscape features...

(They do represent natural periods of time or natural phenomena, so a nymph representing storms/hurricanes/blizzards/etc. could fit...)

<shrug>

I know Hesperids are tied to "a place where the sunset is especially beautiful". I guess my difficulty is meshing Pathfinder's interpretation of nymphs with something like clouds- but I guess you can have places like the windward side of a mountain where clouds naturally form.


JiCi wrote:
Point is that we should get all Nymph variations as heritages, including wind.

What semi-permanent natural feature would you tie a nymph to for "wind"? Wind doesn't really fit in with trees, caves, or bodies of water because it's more of an event than a fixture. I think "natural wind tunnel" is too specific to get a heritage.


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I'm someone who will research and brainstorm until getting something that does work for the player. For a Champion, I'd suggest Blessed One (for appropriate deities), Guardian, an archetype that makes them better at other aspects of their deity's portfolio, an archetype that gives them more to do in social or exploration scenarios, or just look into how the character itself can be expanded to be a little more rounded.

As for your second question! I don't know Foundry very well, so you might want to approach the Foundry community through their Discord or Reddit. I think that there's a compendium with various class and monster abilities? You might be able to drag the Kineticist abilities you want onto the monster. It's a bit of a complicated class, though, so it might not work so easily, and you may need to ask.

At worst, you can drop some of the automation and have a few copy-paste Kineticist abilities ready to go.


Berselius wrote:
Sooo...Paizo just increased it's prices for it's PDF's. Personally I'm a tiny bit upset as I'm in a cost of living crisis like most of the USA and I can't really afford those prices. How does everyone else feel about this?

The flip side of it is that the folks at Paizo are also dealing with cost of living. I don't think anybody's a fan of their hobby getting more expensive, but folks at Paizo have to manage those same grocery prices.


Yes, that is fine. It's rare that it will be very useful, though, because you usually want to have at least two actions to cast a spell or cantrip.


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Hubertdradon wrote:
Im thinking giant foxes, potencially from tian xia, as an higher level beast/animal that is used in the kitsune armies or being workship like guardians.

I'm not sure what kitsune armies you're talking about? There aren't a lot of primarily kitsune settlements, let alone somewhere large enough to field an army. They're shapeshifters, and thus tend to intersperse with the ancestries they can take the form of.

For high-level foxes, we have gumiho at level 17, bul-gae at level 14, and immortal trickster at mythic 11th. None of them are large, but generally one isn't picking a fox thematically for size and power. Lots of shapeshifters, you don't get a lot of simple big animals at high levels outside of dinosaurs.

Some good options with what we have are wolf animal companions, finding canine and feline animals and beasts to convert, using beast eidolons, or homebrewing.


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Wendy_Go wrote:
Summon a creature that has regeneration, watch it drop to 0 HP every turn and then pop back up?

They're dismissed at 0 HP.


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John R. wrote:
Not long ago, I made a comment on Reddit saying that Assurance (Monster Lore) from Tip of the Tongue is worthless against anything at or above level because it's a broad, non-specific lore that shouldn't be getting a lowered DC. There was disagreement with this, which I could not find anything supporting my argument. I could have swore there was a general agreement in these forums or even explicit rules that lores like Bardic Lore and Esoteric Lore do not get lowered DCs but I couldnt find anything. Is there anything supporting my claim or did I completely imagine this?

Not that I know of, either for or against.

In the case of "Monster Lore", I would personally give a lowered DC against individual creatures that have been particularly monster-like in their actions. Whether that's "terrorizing the populace openly" or "mysterious disappearances have been happening near the old mill", once it reaches the point where you expect Geralt to be called in to deal with it or a consultation from Van Helsing, it gets a -2 to DC from me.

For Bardic Lore, it's anything where it seems like there would be a song or play about that individual.

For Esoteric Lore... that's vague and strong enough that it's going to be pretty rare that I'd give it- it'd have to be something that matches that particular Thaumaturge's individual brand of nonsense especially well. But I generally expect Thaumaturge characters to provide a little personalized context for what they're doing in-world that's being abstracted by the general mechanics.

Now, I don't expect the occasional small reduction in DC to make Tip of the Tongue relevant at rolling about a specific quarry. But if you're fighting a demon, something like recalling that most demons have a weakness related to their "sin" is fair game because that's something any expert would be expected to know.

EDIT:

"Your encyclopedic knowledge of monsters allows you to quickly recall basic information."

I feel like folks are ignoring the flavor text here? It's for basic information. "What can you tell me about demons?" Those are creatures, so it's fair game. The DC isn't especially high for basic information about them. A Slayer with a few levels being able to rattle off an answer without needing to roll or even spend an action is absolutely on-brand.


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I'm gonna disagree pretty strongly.

1. The class doesn't work if the character doesn't know what they do. If you rip out the "knowing about monsters" part, then you have somebody who is prepping to fight something while remaining ignorant, and then taking a trophy that they don't know the function of. That's a mess.

If you want to make somebody that hunts monsters without knowing about monsters, they shouldn't be using trophies that depend on the monsters' characteristics. Fighter, Ranger, and Rogue are all excellent choices to represent that.

2. Knowing about undead means knowing about all the gods, learning how to tame animals means being knowledgeable about both fey and elementals, and reasonable preparation for sewer slimes means being similarly prepared for cosmic horrors. Knowledge skills covering at least some out of character things is a function of the game system. Just don't roll for things that aren't relevant. It's fine, and restricting everyone else to mechanically support ignorance is... unlikely to result in a better net experience.

3. I'll refer you back to point #1 on this. Even if the scaling lore doesn't have a bunch keying off of it specifically, it's what enables the class to work without being entirely metagame-dependent.

I'm fine with not caring for the Assurance/Automatic Knowledge. But it does go out of its way to say that it is for recalling "basic information", as opposed to something to use on difficult quarry. You don't have to use them all the time.

4. It's a scaling versatile lore on a physical-stat martial class. Yeah, it's not your key stat, but you get a +2 from quarry to help make up for it.

5. No thanks. I don't want this pulled out to a feat- it's too central for the class to make sense, and I don't want a feat tax. It's also not overly weak, it's just not Thaumaturge... which is fine.

---

Main thing I care about is the first point. I think it's just not a class thematically built for winging it from a place of complete ignorance, even aside from the Monster Lore itself.


daion_anri wrote:
Finoan wrote:
Super Zero wrote:
Psychic spellcasting removes the need for incantations, not the Auditory trait. Only spells that make sounds have that.

That is also a good point that I think needs more attention.

So an example would be Bullhorn. A Psychic could cast the spell without uttering any incantations, but would still have to speak in order for their voice to be amplified and heard by all creatures in the spell's range.

If I correct understand this part, then Psychic spellcasting allow you cast when you are silenced, because you don't need to speak during your spell casting. But in some cases - you have to speak if spell enforce you to do it. For example we can see this spell Wails of the Damned - this spell have auditory trait, and we see this part in spell description "You howl a lament of damned souls..." - this spell in the same situation like Bullhorn spell. I think this is kind a narrative issue and you can just reflavore this spell and do it without your "mounth" and "prononceation". This reflavore is necessary to apply the Psychic spellcasting rule.

Am I correct in my thoughts?

Wails of the Damned doesn't work on a deaf target and doesn't work in an area of silence. Psychic doesn't do anything too change that. That's a function of what the spell does and trait requirements, not general casting rules.


Finoan wrote:
Super Zero wrote:
Psychic spellcasting removes the need for incantations, not the Auditory trait. Only spells that make sounds have that.

That is also a good point that I think needs more attention.

So an example would be Bullhorn. A Psychic could cast the spell without uttering any incantations, but would still have to speak in order for their voice to be amplified and heard by all creatures in the spell's range.

We even see The Silent Whisper address this by removing the Auditory trait from Message to make it a purely telepathic spell.


Giorgo wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
If I were you, I would make a new thread, and maybe link to it from here. "Iconics: Things I'd Like to See" isn't a title that would really help folks find what you did, and we're more than two years from its creation, so it's not really fresh in the mind of the mind of the posters.

Sounds reasonable, thanks.

Don't see a "like" button on your post, but consider it given. :)

That'd be the "+" icon under the reply button! And I'm happy to help.


Giorgo wrote:
Ed Reppert wrote:

Not much really.

1. A biography for each iconic, including a physical description and a picture.
2. A "signature" saying.
3. A first level build for each iconic (including the ones Paizo is at present reluctant to make).
4. An explanation of why the choices made for the above build were made.
5. Higher level builds (at least 5th and 10th).
6. A Pathbuilder build for each iconic (up to 20th level if possible).
7. An explanation of the choices in the above Pathbuilder build that weren't covered in item 4.

Not gonna happen, I'm sure, but it'd be nice.

As a new PF 2ER GM in Training (tm), I started off my Sandpoint Brief Campaign in a FGLS with a PUG (Pick Up Group), with people I have never met before. I provided them with an option of 1E Iconics (like Valeros, Merisiel, Kyra, Ezren) Pre-Gen PCs to get the game started, and they seemed to enjoy using them (I used the 2E Pre-Gens that Paizo made available). I notice a few things were off on various PC sheets, when I tried to recreate them in Pathbuilder. I also wanted to add a "Free Archetype" as I use that as a variant rule.

I was going to pretty much type up a post like the OP did (points 3,4, 7), explaining my selections and thoughts behind the choices I made.

As someone who has been out of the loop (forum wise) for many years, is this something I can share here, to build upon the conversation the OP already started, or should I start a new post in a different place?

If I were you, I would make a new thread, and maybe link to it from here. "Iconics: Things I'd Like to See" isn't a title that would really help folks find what you did, and we're more than two years from its creation, so it's not really fresh in the mind of the mind of the posters.


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Definitely not "edge". I'm tired of the jokes already, and they haven't started.


Transporter accident when beaming back down.


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James Jacobs wrote:
Kelseus wrote:

We have been waiting for this since the launch of 2E. But it is finally happening.

Dead God's Hand is coming in September!!!!!

I am very excited about this! Cannot wait!

Also in the product description it says Aroden was murdered!

Murder is one way to get killed, but I wouldn't read too much into the blog's use of that word.

Product description describes Aroden as "the dead god of humanity whose murder triggered the beginning of the current age!", so it might benefit from being updated to "death"? I know I saw it and assumed that we were getting a pretty major "cause of death" update with the new edition.


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Kelseus wrote:
BotBrain wrote:


I feel like if we were gonna get shifter it'd be playtested. I'd love to hope but I just do not see it.

Not necessarily, especially if it doesn't have new mechanics, but instead has a remix of old ones.

If you're saying as just an archetype, then yeah. But I can confidently say that even if they ever do release a non-playtested class in a non-Gencon book, they would definitely mention it in the book description. It would be a huge waste of sales to hide the biggest selling point.

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