Anthropomorphized Rabbit

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Brock Landers wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Brock Landers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
This is also very possible. In this case I guess Psychic or Occultist probably fills the role of Occult Prepared Caster.
Yeah, and it sounds like the Occultist class will be the master of Resonance, and be able to use their Int instead of Cha for it.
My guess is both stats, a la Silksworn.
I am not familiar with Silksworn, what is that?

The Occultist archetype that makes you the castiest 6/9 caster in the game and gives you two stats for mental focus.


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Brock Landers wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
This is also very possible. In this case I guess Psychic or Occultist probably fills the role of Occult Prepared Caster.
Yeah, and it sounds like the Occultist class will be the master of Resonance, and be able to use their Int instead of Cha for it.

My guess is both stats, a la Silksworn.


edduardco wrote:
kaid wrote:
edduardco wrote:
Is the 10 min cooldown for Shield really necessary?
If you think about it if it managed to be able to do that block action every time you resummoned it that would be basically like 4 or so temporary HP for 1 action every turn. That would be an insane amount of bonus survivability for a cantrip. Even every 10 minutes means basically once per fight every fight you can do that which is still really good.
It cost a reaction too, and are hit points that only apply to strikes and magic missile.

That’s still basically DR 4 at first level as a cantrip. Yeah, that’s broken. That’d be on top of +1 AC.


Elleth wrote:
This is terrifying. It's only permanent on a crit fail, right? Any idea how large the group is?

Yep! No idea what the duration is on a normal failure. No idea how large the group is, but you do hit multiple creatures with it.

Elleth wrote:
I definitely agree from a design perspective, I'm just not sure how I'll feel about it yet. I suppose I'm cautious, but edging towards the impression I might appreciate it, even if it's only for rules reasons.

At least for me, it'll take some pressure off of dipping. I can go full Rogue and pick up whatever couple spells are critical for the concept, rather than figuring out how much of a Rogue dip I need on my caster.

QuidEst wrote:
Yeah, I was just finding it interesting that such a combo might make them the combat muscle of casting. Blow a dude up, undo wounds, turn into a dinosaur. It sort of feels like MtG Green to me? Solve problems through power and endurance.

Yeah- really, full Naya (green, white, red)- you're a big stompy with healing and blasting. (Assuming we've still got some take on Natural Spell.)


Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
Has it been outright confirmed we're only getting Core + Goblins in terms of races? We've seen plenty of previews, but I haven't seen any statements saying what you're telling me.

They are confirmed as the playtest races. It's not set in stone that goblins will be core in the final version, but it's unlikely that they're going to add a bunch of ancestries to the core book.

Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
We don't know so far if they're not in the playtest yet, do we? We've seen plenty of races, but not all of them- Humans haven't been shown off, but they're a given. No offense intended, I'm just trying to keep track of the PF2E info.

We do know that. They've stated what classes and ancestries are in the playtest. I'm afraid I don't have a specific source, but it's been mentioned a few times.

Inquisitive Tiefling wrote:
If Tieflings aren't core I'm gonna be more than a little disappointed. Mostly because I really want to be able to play my favorite PC right out of the gate, without having to worry about whether or not someone agrees with or allows extra materials or the like.

Understandable. I (and I'm sure most players) have a race I'd have loved to see ported over as a core ancestry, but it's just not very likely. I think it's pretty reasonable to expect anything that's been a PFS-available race to show up as an ancestry before too long. So yeah, we'll both still need GM approval.


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Elleth wrote:
Any examples? You make it sound like a Nyarlathotep-tier qualia-affecting spell, which would be terrifying.

Actually, it's the non-qualia options that seemed scarier. You could make a group of people believe there's a dragon flying overhead, or you could make a group of people believe that if they don't live better lives, they'll be punished in the afterlife. People experience their new truth in different ways- if it runs counter to what they believed, it might be experienced as a sudden revelation, for instance.

Elleth wrote:
These sound quite good. I might have a hard time deciding between lore and polymath if it came to it.

As mentioned, you can mix and match to your heart's content!

Elleth wrote:
Kind of still expecting class feat substitution, not sure if I like that or not yet. Here's hoping it works out.

I'm excited. I was fond of nine tails builds in PF1, so getting a universal option for, say, making a Rogue that dabbles in the occult or can shapeshift is nice. It also sets a high standard for whatever that casting is in place of.

Elleth wrote:
So Druids might feel like the hammer of spellcasting. That's interesting and might give a pretty distinctive theme.

Arcane will also get those damaging spells, and divine will also get those healing spells- Druid's just the class that gets both sides.

Elleth wrote:
Thanks for all the info!

You're welcome!

Captain Morgan wrote:
Bravo, bravo! Thank you for your service.

Happy to help!


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Some more info! Mostly Bard stuff. From the Know Direction podcast. I only got some of the information.

Bard:
-Chill Touch and Telekinetic Projectile are most of or all of Bard's damaging cantrips (might have missed one). Daze makes enemies flat-footed, and can slow them down (?) on a crit-fail.
-Bard's special composition cantrips are much stronger than regular cantrips.
-Bard's 10th level spell options include Fabricated Reality, which can instill some pretty impressive things as perceived truths. Still no details on the duration of a regular save, but if they already have a casting on them, the spell tries to dispel it first.
- Maestro-focused Bards improve performances. You can eventually improve not just the duration, but also things like the bonus. Improving the bonus is a difficult check, but a crit success can push Inspire Courage to +3, as much as the accuracy difference between Wizard and Fighter (that can be +50% damage under some normal circumstances).
- Perform is one skill, but you can take a skill feat to focus on one particular type of performance and be better at that.
- Lore bards start out with Bardic Knowledge, granting a special, unique trained lore skill that can only be used to recall knowledge- but it can be used for any recall knowledge. You can't advance it normally, but legendary Occultism automatically boost it to expert. That's just the opening ability; others give you things like improved saves. (Sorry, I missed what the other example was.)
- Polymath gets Versatile Performance. This allows you to substitute perform for particular uses of other skills- so you could substitute it for a lie. This covers a lot of questions about bonuses. Bonuses to the perform skill apply, bonuses to lying apply, but bonuses to deception do not apply. It sounds like it covers a broad range of things from the start, but also no longer completely replaces skills. You can also get a spellbook of occult spells that you can prep a spell (some spells?) from, and more spontaneous heightens.
- Your instrument for replace verbal/somatic/material components can't be hands-free. It's intended to allow you to make music with instruments and still cast, not as a way to get around needing to use your hands to cast. (The rules language will need some tightening up on this bit.) Instrument-less Bards still get ways to boost their performance checks even without access to high-quality instruments.

Non-Bard:
- You can pick up slot-based casting without being a casting class in some fashion. The highest level spell you can cast from a spell slot without being a casting class in the playtest is an 8th level spell (ie you could get at least one 8th level spell and still hit Rogue or Fighter 20). We haven't been told how you get that exactly.
- Primal list includes both the best healing spells in the game and the best damaging spells in the game.


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Deadmanwalking wrote:
Actually, it was clarified at some point that shifting your grip, opening a door, then shifting your grip back was a total of two actions, so that's only one action down. I'm not sure quite how that works, but it was by someone official so it apparently does. Maybe it's only shifting from two-handed down to one that's an action.

Other way 'round. Increasing your handedness is an action, but letting go is a free action. (After all, you could just drop it as a free action.)


Childeric, The Shatterer wrote:
Maxed out at level 6? Hell, most of my games don't even start til levels 3-5. I can't imagine never going higher than that, wow.

It's usually done as a way to have a lower-powered world. Getting feats after you hit level 6 means you still have things to look forward to. I think for Pathfinder, E8 is also popular, getting many classes their nice level 7 features and then balancing out the spell levels between prepared and spontaneous casters.


Mental:
- Copy the sleep, hallucination, intoxicating, and pain suppression effects of Polypurpose Panacea, and make them willing target. Remove any save bonuses granted.
- Flavor food and color objects as Prestidigitation. The effect is a minor illusion.

(It’s really hard to come up with an illusory effect that is weaker than a cantrip. The only non-Prestidigitation effect I could think of, an illusion that can only be seen by the caster, just came across as mostly just skeevy. If illusions are spiritual, this should instead allow a subject to make their food and drink taste like what they want for an hour.)


Vital:
- A willing living creature exhibits any of the following minor symptoms for an hour: a runny nose, a slight fever, appears a little pale, baggy eyes, or mild stomach discomfort. Inspection by anybody trained in Medicine reveals these symptoms to be faked, an expert can tell at a glance. Alternatively, a willing living creature with any of these symptoms has them suppressed for one hour, in which case the same level of training and inspection reveals that the symptoms are being suppressed. A creature cannot have a symtom both faked and suppressed by this spell, and the two applications cancel out.
- A touched piece of nonmagical fruit of no more than light bulk either becomes ripe or rots. After one hour, any uneaten portion of the fruit returns to its normal state. This use of the spell has no effect on fruit that is already rotten.
- An unattended nonmagical object of no more than one bulk is sterilized of any non-magical disease it carries. At the GM’s discretion, certain objects that cause diseases might not be considered to carry them (such as radioactive material causing radiation sickness).
- A willing living creature’s hair or fur grows longer or changes to another natural color for one hour. The length of hair grown is no more than a typical creature of that type would normally grow in a year; at the GM’s discretion, this limit may be lower for creatures with unusual fast hair growth or hair with unusual properties. At the end of the hour, the hair reverts to its normal length and color. Any cut hair crumbles away at this point.


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The four essences are material (physical things, the elements, etc.), mental (the mind, thoughts, dreams), vital (life and death, health), and spiritual (alignment, spirits, force, sonic energy, the soul). At least, that’s the impression I got.

Prestidigitation deals entirely with material matters. If the spell lists are supposed to be roughly balanced, material shouldn’t have such a fantastic cantrip all to itself.

Rules:
- The spells should at least create one-hour effects. If it allows you to perform tricks for an hour, even better.
- No saves. The spell should never do anything that requires a save.
- Really hard to find a use for in combat.
- Multiple minor utility effects. If it would make a good cantrip on its own, it’s probably too strong.


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Quote:


A cleric better than a two-hander fighter, how? At what? They've worse weapon training, worse armor proficiency, worse HP, and most likely worse feats too. You think they're better off because they can cast spells? With how PF2 spells are? Doubtful.

Oh, so the wizard just loses an action when they want to attack two handed. Cool, I guess. Nice to know they probably won't bother now.

Has this even been confirmed? AFAIK it hasn't been, but it could've. Even then, that just means two-hander paladins and shield using Paladins that want to Lay on Hands have a Feat tax. Isn't that nice?

Actually no, the price you pay for more damage is worse defense and no damage mitigation, at least in this system. No need for the extra action tax on top. Plus, this argument falls apart when you realise both the sling and the shortbow have worse damage than a crossbow, but the crossbow doesn't need a reload and the sling does. Though to be fair the sling has better damage.....if you'vep got 18 Strength. Then you do 1 more damage, on average.

Cleric can heal half their health with an action at least three times per day just from channeling. I think that at least covers armor and health. Spells vs. +2 weapon accuracy and feats? Eh, you could be right, although I’d favor spells since they also handle ranged (assuming it takes feats and money for bows to be comparable in ranged effectiveness). I still think making it harder to cast and wield a d12 weapon is reasonable to keep a gap.

Yep. That’s something I’m okay with, since they can still attack one-handed. There’s no reason to not start two-handed, though, since shifting to one hand is free.

Yeah, it’s been confirmed. It’s a feat tax, but shared equally across two-handed and sword-and-board. You can go one-handed for a casting Paladin.

Sword-and-board is worse-off on the free hand issue, as far as I can tell, depending on how using either hand for something else works. You can trade your free hand for more damage, or you can trade your free hand and an action each round for more AC. If that first option doesn’t actually trade the free hand, then the answer goes back to PF1’s “always two-handed”.

Not arguing on sling/crossbow/bow balance being weird.


TheFinish wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
necromental wrote:
Shifting the grip on a weapon is also not a fun action but they're pushing it for now.
That comes up very rarely, though. Reloading comes up every turn, sometimes multiple times.

What if you're a Wizard and you want to use your staff two-handed, but also, you know, cast spells? Ditto, but for a Cleric (lets say a Shelyn Cleric, since they get Glaives. Or Gorum for Greatswords)? Or a two-hander Paladin that wants to use Lay on Hands? Or a two-hander Fighter/Barbarian/whatever that wants to use a potion? Those are just off the top of my head. Now, they won't come up as often as a dedicated slinger, but it will come up often enough to be a consideration. And it's about as fun (by which I mean, not fun at all).

Plus it makes no sense if you compare all of these actions them to each other. Shifting grips is faster than any reload you can think of. And it really makes no sense if bows are still Free action reloads (seriously Paizo people, reloading a bow and reloading a sling take about the same time, try it sometime.)

Yeah, a Cleric of Gorum should have a hard time casting and using a greatsword. Otherwise you’re just better than the Fighter. Fight with your greatsword, take your hand off as a free action to cast, and then if you want to get back to swording, spend your action.

If you’re a Wizard, use your staff one-handed and only switch to two-handed when it’s worth the action.

Paladin just grabs the feat for LoH that lets them use it without a hand free and avoid most AoOs for it.

Whatever you want to do, you can still just go do. But an action to get back to attacking is the price to pay for more damage.


Cantriped wrote:

I'm not so sure a bastardized progression (a.k.a. this E6 buisness) is actually worth the effort of trying to balance it in play.

Objectively, feats were actually pretty close to worthless throughout most of d20's history, and came in long chains, so giving them out like candy wasn't a problem. Conversely, feats appear to be where much more of our progression actually comes from in PF2 (including basically all but our core class-features). So even though a 6th(+2) level character doesn't have the numerical values of an 8th level character, that doesn't mean they still have the CR of a 6th level character either.

Personally, I would prefer to play in a campaign without the expectation of 'leveling-up during play' at all over playing an 'E6' campaign from 1st to 6th level*. At least in that case I can focus my attention entirely on the story, without having to consider how to budget my even-more limited options for progression.

*Especially considering that by the end of the campaign, said "6th level" enemies might have upwards of 10 extra feats granting them new Actions, Reactions, and Proficiencies a 6th level character would normally never have.

It should be pretty easy. After the first full round of feats (2 skill, 2 class, 1 ancestry, 1 general), treat them as +1 level for determining appropriate challenges. That expects them to have +1 to everything and a new spell level for any casters, which they don’t. You should be fine with that jump for the rest of the campaign.

Suggested limits, if you’re concerned:
You can’t improve armor category more than one step, or you can’t take consecutive armor general feats.
Cap the increase to spell points. You can get as many options as you want, but the pool should remain limited to avoid overly favoring Cleric.

But since most class feats seem to be ways to spend your actions, I don’t think it’s a big problem.


First World Bard wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Brock Landers wrote:
I was kinda hoping the Bard's spell list would be Primal.
Throwing fireballs and turning into dinosaurs and being unable to charm people is not a Pathfinder Bard. That said, you have Sorcerer to cover spontaneous charisma-based casting off the Primal list. It's the fey bloodline, so you probably get a dash of illusions and enchantment.
See, I'm wondering if the Fey bloodline wouldn't actually be a better fit for the Occult list (if it focuses on charms and the like), and something like a Plant bloodline would be better for Primal. But we'll see when the playtest comes out.

Yeah, fey being tied to nature has always been weird for Druids. Maybe they need a fey trickery spell line that provides a menu of flexibly-chosen lower-level effects?


Tayoyo wrote:
In PF1 there was an restricition that GM's could put on players so that they maxed out at level 6 and would get feats everytime they leveled up after that. The point of that was to keep the PC's not overpowered, inside the realm of reality and keep everyone on the same power level. With PF2 working towards a lot of balance, and with casters being nerfed a bit, is Epic 6 going to be something higher, like 10 maybe?

E6 makes a lot of sense in PF2. Level 7 is when Master-level skills and abilities start to come online. Capping things at 6 limits skills to world-record levels. (It also gives the Fighter a more impressive niche- instead of just getting Master early, Fighter is the only class to get Master in anything.) Casters are limited to third-level spells, Alchemist has access to mutagen, and the low-level archetypes are available.

E6 should also be much more interesting than in PF1. As you continue to "level" in E6, you get feats. PF2 has a lot of different types of feats, which means you can rotate between them. Skill, class, ancestry, skill, class, general, repeat. If you run out of skill feats you want, you can spend them to improve more of your skills. If you run out of class feats you want, you can take archetypes. Ancestry feats, yeah, you'll run out of. General feats, we'll see.


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Brock Landers wrote:
I was kinda hoping the Bard's spell list would be Primal.

Throwing fireballs and turning into dinosaurs and being unable to charm people is not a Pathfinder Bard. That said, you have Sorcerer to cover spontaneous charisma-based casting off the Primal list. It's the fey bloodline, so you probably get a dash of illusions and enchantment.


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Dilvias wrote:

Woo, a light spell that lasts more than a minute, so it is actually useful!

Quote:

LIGHT

School evocation [light]; Level bard 0, cleric 0, druid 0, sorcerer/wizard 0

Duration 10 min./level

???

I mean, yeah, one day is great, but the old one was pretty solid too.


Ah- looks like Cleric and Wizard both don’t start with a class feat by default. Universalist gets one by trading out their school ability. Guess that means you need to be human, gnome, or a universalist to start with a familiar. Cleric seems much better off at first level.


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By the way, I really like Dex-to-damage on Rogues. It allows them to really feel effortless.


First World Bard wrote:
DerNils wrote:
So all Dex Fighter builds can simply include a rogue dip now, which is - not terrible? I really don't know, but it seems like a strange place for such a powerful ability.
You are assuming that multi-classing will stay the same as it is in PF1, and that one-level "dips" are still possible.

It's a pretty reasonable assumption, given what we've heard so far.


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Cantriped wrote:
On the topic of Powers... I have seen several developer statements now that seem to indicate that Powers aren't just Spell-Like Abilities; but that they are actually Uncommon spells too. By which I mean that they can be learned and cast exactly like any other spells, but that most casters simply never learn how to do so (because the spell-versions are Uncommon). It could just be wishful thinking, of course.

No, that has been stated by a developer to be incorrect. You can't cast powers with spell slots, they're a different kind of spell (and furthermore they wouldn't appear on the spell list).


In PF1, you could attack three times in a round (eventually). You could cast most spells and move. You could move twice your speed and attack once. You could move four times your speed. One class could cast and attack with a weapon in the same round.

In PF2, you can attack three times in a round (from the start). You can cast most spells and move. You can move twice your speed and attack once. You can move three times your speed. Casters can cast and attack with a weapon in the same round.

There's no need to change it from a nice, neat ten rounds per minute to a cumbersome six rounds per minute.


thflame wrote:

1) How powerful are Level 1 PCs compared to Average Joes? About how many commoners can a level 1 fighter upset before he is in over his head? Obviously they are tougher than the Average Joe, but do they need to watch their manners around the common folk or can they take a small village in a bar fight?

PF1 assumes that commoners average a 10.5 in their stats while "heroic" NPCs and PCs a have a 12 average.

PF2 gives PCs a 13 average (by my calculations), so what are commoners at now? If they are still at 10.5, then what fills the gap?

I don't know. Background NPCs won't bother with full character creation rules, but I doubt they'll be worse than unproficient with all 10s.

thflame wrote:
2) What makes PCs so special? Do they have exceptional genes? Are they blessed by divinity? Are they chosen by the cosmos to be great heroes (or terrible villains)? Does the plot just demand that they be powerful, and if so, can I rip out that aspect of the game without breaking it?

I don't know, what does make PCs so special in your game? It can be any of those things, because the actual answer is "they have players". And sure, you can run a game without the PCs ever leveling. E6 was designed to make that more interesting, and the abundance of feat types should only serve to improve E6.

thflame wrote:
3) How many months/days/years of "experience" does a level 1 character have in their field of study on average before they become "level 1"? I assume that you can't just pick up a sword and become a fighter or skim a spellbook and become a wizard, so how long does it take? Does it vary by class? If so, should that not be represented in some form during character creation?

It depends on the class. I'm basing this off the setting being the same. Becoming a wizard requires years of training, while sorcerers are often born with it. It probably shouldn't be represented in character creation, though, beyond maybe optional random starting age tables.

thflame wrote:
4) If all you need to learn how to cast basic magic in Golarion is an average intelligence, why don't more people know magic? I can imagine Prestidigitation would be quite useful for the Average Joe in a medieval fantasy world.

Because you need more than just average intelligence. You need years of expensive training. One of the most prestigious schools in the inner sea region has a 20% fatality rate for the first year of study. Prestidigitation is useful, but it's not that useful.

thflame wrote:
5) Why do all sorcerers have the same approximate levels of talent? Shouldn't some sorcerers have more or less bloodline power? Why do all sorcerers of the same bloodline manifest their powers in approximately the same way?

Not all sorcerers have the same approximate level of talent. They vary greatly in power, the same as fighters vary greatly in power or wizards vary greatly in power. Sorcerers of the same level have consistent power. As for why they manifest their powers in the same way, that's because we don't printed substitution options like PF1 yet.

thflame wrote:
6) If elves (for example) are more Dexterous than humans on average, then how come the potential for elves when it comes to Dexterity is no higher than virtually any other race? (Feel free to substitute "elf" for any other race and "Dexterity" for any other race's racially boosted stats.)

Because being better on average doesn't automatically raise the limits of physical or mental performance.


Oh, that's interesting. It's possible to have Str to hit, Dex to damage with any weapon that's agile but not finesse.


Mark Seifter wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Cool, cool. I can definitely get on board with a lot of this. I am curious if an actor Bard is still a default option, or if it requires refluffing. Spiritual/mental definitely fits “occult”. It sounds like healing is getting snuck in from vital somehow?

Yes, you can act very easily. There's even a magic item for it that's very actor.

The bard's healing is a different spell that isn't heal and isn't vital. Sure does also protect you against mental attacks though.

Oh yes, I’m taking that mask, no question. X)

Ooh... heal-buff combo is pretty nice for Bard. I can’t wait to refluff what exactly it’s doing for my aberrant Sorc!


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Cool, cool. I can definitely get on board with a lot of this. I am curious if an actor Bard is still a default option, or if it requires refluffing. Spiritual/mental definitely fits “occult”. It sounds like healing is getting snuck in from vital somehow?


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Roswynn wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
Gregg Reece wrote:
What are we lacking at this point for class blogs? Bard and Druid?
Yeah. And Druid was previewed much more thoroughly at PaizoCon. I’ve got a thread with the info.
Can you pass the link? I tried watching the PaizoCon video but it was a lot of people playing Burnt Offerings with percentile dice ;)

Here you go! If you go through the thread, there are more updates as I got the higher quality video.


Gregg Reece wrote:
What are we lacking at this point for class blogs? Bard and Druid?

Yeah. And Druid was previewed much more thoroughly at PaizoCon. I’ve got a thread with the info.


Having Bard details would be cool, but I’ve got Sorcerer, so I’m chill.

(Paizo, if you just want to start the playtest, I don’t mind.)


First World Bard wrote:
Elleth wrote:
2 class feats and natural ambition again. I suppose it might do that?

Seems pretty likely. Interesting that for the three humans we saw, the Human Ancestry feats gave either Class feats (for Valeros and Seelah) or a General feat (Toughness for Kyra). I suppose the ancestry identity for humans in 3.x was a bonus feat and bonus skill ranks; so getting an extra feat of some type is on brand. In general, the humans seemed to have a number of trained skills, so perhaps that advantage is still present, as well.

It's interesting that both of Seelah's class feats go into boosting Lay on Hands. Training in Medicine and turning the D4s into D6s seems pretty good. Making LoH not provoke also seems good if eg you plan to use it on yourself when in a particularly nasty fight in lieu of taking that 3rd attack that's unlikely to hit (though as Seelah I'd want to raise my shield most turns I bet, so the tradeoff would be against my 2nd attack, but i digress). That said, the implementation seems a little clunky: remove the Manipulate tag from the Somatic action? So *most* somatic actions provoke, but this one doesn't anymore? I guess we'll have to wait until we get the rules to see how clear it is.

The implementation has a reason for working how it does, I imagine. Fighters (and martial classes who take the appropriate class feat) get an AoO on actions with the manipulate trait. There might be AoO features that trigger on any casting.

Most movement provokes a Fighter, but the Shift action doesn’t.

That said, Warded Touch seems like a very boring feat.


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Roswynn wrote:
Deadmanwalking wrote:
Roswynn wrote:
I don't know whether healing will be in the final occult list, but if there's some juxtaposition, sure!

If Bards get Occult it is, since Mark Seifter has explicitly noted Bards being able to get healing spells.

Roswynn wrote:
They'd still lack polymorphs, though - those are pretty important to the witch's tropes imho. And I think arcane, if anything.

I agree this is a bit of a lack, but they can probably add some in with Patron, or just flat-out add them to the Witch's options.

And I suspect polymorph stuff falls under Material Essence and can thus be found on both the Arcane and Primal lists.

Didn't know about that note by Mark, then either Occult has healing spells or bards are clearly not occult (personally I think the latter).

I agree, a patron or even just a class feature could solve the polymorph problem easily.

Listen, where can I find more about essences? I remember someone (probably you) talking about material, mental, spiritual and... something else, but I've looked around and can't find anything about them!

There are four spell lists in the playtest. This blog confirms those four lists. I’m assuming Bards can’t cast Fireball and/or turn into T-Rexes, so that leaves divine and occult. Unless Bards can’t cast Charm, that leaves occult.


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Voss wrote:
ChibiNyan wrote:

20 HP, up to 19 AC, defensive reaction! He's very hard to take down.

Good thing he has "Attack of opportunity" to tank with. By the way, the text for this says "move action", huh...

In theory. In practice, he's got way too many reaction abilities, and not enough reactions. On the other hand, the shield will last maybe a few rounds of combat, and then he's down to AoOs only.

... I think, anyway. It's unclear if a broken shield can still be used as a shield, since there is a bunch of extraneous text about breaking a broken shield, but that only prevents it from being salvaged, not used...

The shield will last most combats just fine. Using the shield for DR is an emergency move until you've got an adamantine or indestructible shield. While you have high health, use the reaction to raise the shield for AC. (And do it in response to an enemy attacking, leaving AoO open for as long as possible in case that's a better move.) Then down in single digits, use the third action to raise the shield, leaving the reaction open to reduce damage. That keep you conscious for an extra round, and hopefully buy some time to finish the enemy off or get a heal.


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Primal magic, at present, is the Druid list. Unlike PF1, that includes a stronger blasting focus and at least some of the polymorph spells. I imagine fey bloodline spells and powers will round out the illusions, enchantments, and maybe a curse that one needs to play a fey-like character.


Rek Rollington wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:
Iron_Matt17 wrote:
Is it just me, or does Kyra not have a Class Feat?...
I don't think spellcasters get class feats at level one, instead they get... spells.

I thought that may have been it so I went back to the blog:

Cleric Playtest Blog wrote:
At 1st level, you might pick Communal healing so when you cast heal to tend to a creature other than yourself, you regain some Hit Points too, or you might take Turn Undead, which forces undead that critically fail their saves against your heal spells to flee from you. (This works great with the 3-action version of heal!) You could also pick Expanded Domain to explore your deity's domains further, gaining the initial power from a different domain than the first one you chose. You can select this feat twice, letting you delve into a maximum of three domains!

So it does seem a class feat is missing here or the blog meant 2nd level.

Getting access to two domains at first level (and therefore more spell points if I recall correctly) could be pretty amazing.

Huh. My guess is that with all their features compared to Wizard (casting, armor proficiency, a martial weapon proficiency or upgrade to a simple weapon, a bunch of heal/harm spells, 8 hp, and a domain power), Cleric doesn’t get a class feat at first level. The feats still have level 1 as their requirement, because (as seen in Valeros) humans can get an extra class feat at first level.

Or it’s a sheet error.


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Mark Seifter wrote:
PossibleCabbage wrote:

So is it possible for a spell to be unique? What would this mean exactly? I can think of a few possible meanings.

- the spell can only ever be cast once.
- the spell can only be known by one person in the universe at a time.
- there is only one copy of the spell, but if it's found and copied it ceases to be unique.

We certainly do not have a spell that is unique right now. While it's not something you would actually really need, I could see a unique spell like this (the main point is the requirement):

Aroden's Victory
Requirement: You must be Aroden to cast this spell
Effect: You win.

Just before Aroden died, he tried to cast this.

The murderer had already cast Aroden’s Spellbane.


Mark Seifter wrote:
QuidEst wrote:
That’s... really cool, actually. You could potentially get access to domain powers as something you can cast through spell slots? It’d be really inefficient, but screw that, Wizards of Nethys do what they want!
Powers are still powers, with their own associated rules, and they wouldn't be on the wizard's list. But a heretical sect of a particular deity might gain access to a particular domain power through a different means than the usual domain feat, for instance, but it would still be a power.

Gotcha! Good to know, and thank you for the clarification.


That’s... really cool, actually. You could potentially get access to domain powers as something you can cast through spell slots? It’d be really inefficient, but screw that, Wizards of Nethys do what they want!


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We have some information on how occult casting works! It’s still verbal and somatic components, but individual classes can (as with other lists) make substitutions. Bard can provide verbal components with instruments, for instance.


Well, the setting of Pathfinder is ancient history (and legend, thanks to the Gap) in Starfinder. Record of Lodoss War would make a convincing period anime. Using different deities might be common in fiction to avoid annoying any gods or goddesses.


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SnowFever wrote:
What is wrong with Kyra's left leg?

All left legs have something not right about them.


Oh, right. I forgot Cleric doesn’t get a starting class feat. That makes sense- their features correlate pretty well with Wizard, but then they start with weapon and armor proficiencies as well.


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Elleth wrote:
One thing I am curious about is how, assuming we can split Material into Fire, Earth, Water, and Wind, we can split the other three.

Vital has positive and negative, at least.


masda_gib wrote:
Speaking of Spell Resistance - I haven't seen it mentioned in any blog posts and I really hope I won't see it in PF2 at all.

We saw a really high-CR creature of the sort that would normally have spell resistance. It seemed to instead have a really small bonus on saves vs. magic (I think +1).


Kalindlara wrote:

I wouldn't mind seeing the granted channels from Divine Evolution increase to "a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier", personally. That seems like enough to do the job, without completely eating the cleric's lunch.

(I say this before seeing the full playtest, of course, so there might be other options in there to expand the benefit to more useful levels.)

Cleric does get one fewer spell per level compared to Sorcerer and Wizard, which seems to be entirely balanced against Channel Energy.


Oh, just some info on Wellspring Spell:
- It's metamagic, so the spell takes an extra action.
- We've seen the Druid version at the PaizoCon banquet, and theirs is limited to spells without a duration. (So, instantaneous spells.)


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TheFinish wrote:

For the record, Mark has clarified in another thread that the Divine Evolution allows you to Channel like a Cleric 1/day, much like how Primal gives you 1/day summon nature's ally

So now it's much more balanced, and not eyebrow raising.

Aww… I mean, I know that the full amount would be really strong, but… 1/day is just not very exciting for healing/harming.

That said, I was only interested in divine Sorcs because the evolution seemed so strong that it made up for playing the least interesting spell list. That's not a good role for a feat to play.


Captain Morgan wrote:
That Overlord fight was pretty cool. I might check that anime out if it is on Netflix or Hulu. Help keep me sated with "world that runs on D&D rules" fiction with the massive delays on Rat Queens and Order of the Stick.

Hulu has you covered. Enjoy!


With greatly reduced spells per day, I’m worried that passing out even a single daily buff to the party will eat up an entire spell level. Extend Spell to alternate days...?

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