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In fact - one of my 'go to' answers... :)

@ Farvin...
Never worry about asking questions! :)
These boards have been incredibly helpful to me, many other GMs & Players
because we're such a supportive community.
Questions are always fair game for a variety of responses as a result, but
also, sometimes the people who answer need to be educated about the specific
forces at play in an individual game - every game is different. ;-p

Good luck on your quest!

Ditto! That's crazy cool - congrats to your wife!
Please post lyrics. :)

IMC these events have the penalties apply for all time & these are mitigated by
the actions of the rulers to balance out things - e.g. buildings or gifts etc...

I like Chemlak's Spanish inquisition example - & people do have a very long
memory...people still hate each other in our own world for wars fought centuries

As Spatula posted, if you go the way Farvin (sorry Farvin) is postulating, then
the bonuses from the buildings you build will also disappear over time...

This system is a simplification... That's all it is. If you want to make life
more complicated - go for it (with your group's acceptance), but as a GM - I
want it as simple as can be...

Build some stuff to mitigate the penalties & then build a bridge...

The man! = insert picture of Chemlak here...

Downloaded fine for me, of course...I haven't actually loaded anything in yet... ;-p

I didn't give any hints.
Later on, whatever was in the hex would either be a boon or a bane... :)
Of course, my players had/have amazingly high Perception, so they didn't miss much.

Yeah, it's ultra hard to keep all the figures straight without some sort of calculator... (I've never managed it.)

When you get there - a kingdom building sheet.
The best I've seen thus far is the one Chemlak caretakes on these boards.
Sick & too tired to actually make the link sorry...but here's the address. king-Spreadsheet

Agree with you there... It's great to foreshadow & get people talking about her...

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Hey now, Batman's not a bad guy :-)

I never said he was. But to criminals that aren't crazy, he's pretty scary.

Yup - but I'd like to add that - you have to know he exists for 'him' to be scary...

One must also bear in mind that dragons often assume humanoid form & walk amoungst us...

+1 to RuyanVe's comment though... 'You encounter a caravan of refugees
from the burning city you're approaching.' 'Ha, I get a 25 for my
initiative & attack them...'

Tent city sounds like a cool place to have a chase scene...could be
anything from an escaped bull, to a thief (or 2).

You could also keep playing up the bandit theme & have a bandit attack
be repsulsed, but then have fire be an issue...

Read ahead into the next book, find something/someone you want to
foreshadow & create an encounter around that. e.g. too late for where
you are in the story, but prior to meeting the kobolds you could have
had a different coloured tribe attack. Speaking of which, is it too late
to have a big attack by Mites? Low level threats to your PCs now, but a
good way to have them feel powerful early on...

Yeah - depends how you want to play it, so up to you in the end...
..but, I would have thought it put forth it's own story ideas to have a higher
level cleric of the same faith as a PC - imagine the fun you could have... :)

Other than that - Jhod won't steal any of the PC's thunder later on, so does he
need to change really?

Besides that - he doesn't need to be played the same way as the PC - they could
both have completely different ideas about how the church of Erastil should
work, for example...

My group is Lvl 10 & we've been doing it this way since day one...

BECAUSE KM is so sandboxy - more so than any other AP, you can't really count
on 'set' places or times to level - most people have probably done it intuitively
- I know I have.

I guess what I'm saying is look at how many of the encounters in each book that
your PCs have done & use that as a rough guide. i.e. They need to be 'x' level by
the start of the next book, this book has 'y' encounters. 'y' divided by 'x'

This also allows you to throw in all sorts of extra stuff. We've been playing
for about 3 years real time (at least), and about a dozen game time. If I'd
awarded XP, the players would be WAY over cooked for book 4 - which is where
we're at now.

Why don't you treat Davik as a 'Haunt'?
Then you could apply something like finding his bones & burying them would
be enough...
Or perhaps, finding & consecrating the ranseur, then breaking it. (Which could
be part of the ritual you were talkign about...)

Well that blows chunks!

Chemlak wrote:
Well, you could ask for me to finish all the Legendary Games stuff...

+1 redcelt...& a big ditto here...

Dude, we don't need to when you're such a hard task master on yourself!

Chemlak wrote:
Also, if you're not already, may I suggest the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet to help with all your kingdom management needs?

It's great! :)

This from James Jacobs: -

Pitax's claims on its nation are pretty spurious—they actually claim to control all of the Stolen Lands west of Hooktongue Slough, but they don't really have an organized patrol route and the city certainly doesn't give out much support to anyone who wants to do stuff like live or work in that region.

The region that Pitax can legitimately claim as its own, though pretty much ammounts to the bottom two rows of hexes on page 22, with the exception of any hexes with forest in them and the addition of the hexes containing areas K and L.


I wouldn't have an issue with it personally.

Curghann wrote:
"why would a patch of radishes boost the production of a sawmill?"

Have you tasted those moon radishes?

Sooooooo woody on the palate! (Don't know why Oleg likes them so much...)

For Drelev (where my PCs have just reached), I've told them that Drelev currently
controls 1 hex around the fort & all of the hexes up the road to the bridge
(but not including the bridge). I decided that in the basis of the resource in
the last hex, but the barbarians wanting to cut them off from Restov & hence
making them abandon the hex.

Pitax - not there yet, but I saw a recent(ish) discussion on these boards about
the amount of territory they hold. I think they say the bottom 2 rows of hexes on
the map, but that Pitax actually controls territory off the bottom of the map
also. All I can say is 'search & you shall find.' Others have scoped it out in
great detail.

That said, the other thing to remember is that by the time they take over/conquer
Pitax, hexes almost become superfluous to the story, as the finale kicks in &
armies & kingdoms kinda go into the background as your heroes go into the final
LOVE to know how you'll handle that with your 75 heroes! :)

Curghann wrote:

With those values, Speed became 1, but HP, OFF/Def/Cons all stayed as "n/a" and Morale stayed "+0". Leadership for the Commander became 8.

... The Army Summary tab properly pulled in the values I put in, but OM/DV/HP and Consumption stayed blank. Morale did too, but I'm not sure if something is supposed to be showing there.

Just f.y.i I used your stats in my sheet I'm running for my players & ditto

results...except for the summary tab, which was even less populated than yours
seems to have been. i.e. speed was also blank.

Chemlak, How's your tres cool life going? & any comments on this?

(I'm in the same boat - haven't got to armies yet...but nearly there...

Everything Chemlak said +1.

My own group wouldn't have made it through the 1st few years if I'd imposed
this on them - they had a hard enough time as it was.

I'd also say that - just because your DM had a hard time of it when the rules
were actually broken (i.e. magic item economy) he shouldn't impose something
like this unless he's played the new rules & found them wanting also.

Yes, the 1st rules were broken in that manner. The new ones... well, they don't
cater to a magic item economy at all - because they were fixed...
The new rules are 'NEW'... i.e. not broken anymore.

My player's kingdom is up to about a decade (I think -somewhere around there
anyway), and they are just starting to get a large & stable income...but even
80 odd BP per month doesn't let you go wild & build whatever, whenever.
(Note: they are not gaming the system either, so some groups mileage will vary.)

Tryn wrote:

I gave my players standard mundane items at will (e.g. armor, weapons, horses etc.) es well as a high lifestyle and basic servants.

But thats not a rule at my table but just "common sense". :)

Heh - kinda the same, except that none of the kingdom's horse vendors will 'give'

horses anymore, as the PCs have a habit of losing all or most of the ones
they're given... ;-p

Rune wrote:
I'd love to use those but I need to translate the text into Portuguese for my group. If any of the artists could provide a textless version of their art I'd be tremendously grateful.

If that doesn't work, I'd suggest doing something I do occasionally.

Give the book - as written - to your group, have it be written in a language
that isn't 'Common' & tell them they need to translate it... Have a pre-written
translation text ready for them as a separate handout, for when someone
translates the text, or uses linguistics etc.

Alternatively, you could print out the book as written, then create some 'paste
on' translations which go directly over the English version. If you use nice
borders it will look like it's supposed to be that way. You can then scan your
new version & print from that.

Hope you do find something that works though - they are cool efforts by different
people at making something for others' use!

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Well I am considering that, mostly because I think River Pirates are cool. ;)

But yeah I think maybe I'll have them own like a small port nearby.

You could swap out the Candlemere threat as written for a pirate base...?

pennywit wrote:
Additionally, you're likely to see at least one fey gatecrasher. These-days, my go-to menacing fey is a custom job named Sagroc the Ugly. He's an advanced Bogeyman with the Agile mythic template. I haven't completely decided on this bugger's agenda, but he loves nothing more than fear, and spreading fear. And (now that I think about it) what's better for spreading fear than gate-crashing a noble wedding?

My 'go to' for this type of interaction is a Spring-Heel Jack.

Not the one presented in prd or pfsrd, but one in Alluria's - 'Clans of the
Fey Realm'.
He's a medium sized (instead of small), CN (instead of CE) Fey fancy boy.
I play him a lot like Flashheart from Blackadder
He's fun.

Cool Mr Grogg.
You could have all of those sound effects in the background when describing the scene to the players.
You could also possibly tie a haunt to the place...just to spice things up...

Queen Moragan wrote:
This is incorrect, each book has a small section that covers some of the geographic features.

My bad - I was sure I'd read someone comparing them to the Mississippi somewhere

in the boards.
Plus, admittedly, I was looking at their freaking size on the maps - they
certainly aren't drawn little.

However, even then, this doesn't preclude smaller rivers than the main ones.

T.A.U. wrote:
I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not.

Hee hee hee - NICE!

River bandits would also work in well with a certain undead river encounter...

In short - yes, I'd say you're reading it wrong. From 2 hexes below Oleg's
until the bottom of the map is hill country. So Staggy's fort is in hill
country, but next to the Tuskwater.

However - that said - feel free to make it swamp. That would lend a whole new
feel to the area...but also make it harder for your PCs kingdom to survive.

As for the 'river' question, there are other posts on these hallowed boards
wherein the Devs have weighed in on this issue. They pointed out the size of
the rivers & that there would be other, smaller, rivers, streams etc abounding
throughout the region.

As for the rules... Depends on which version you're working with. If it's the
ones that came with the AP - fair enough question... If it's rules from any
other source, consider that they could apply to any game using the kingdom
building rules... e.g. in a desert or tundra setting.
If that were the case, yes, you'd have to pipe in water. In the Stolen Lands
you can set up a new town in just about any hex & arbitrarily decide that there
is a small river beside it if you want to.

Hope that helps.


The main thing to remember there is that the rivers shown on the AP maps are
absolutely HUGE. i.e. a mile or two across...

This means that all of the smaller rivers are not shown on the map, so there's
no reason for somewhere like Oleg's not to be by a river...albeit only a normal
sized one a 100 meters across or similar.

The Stag Lord's fort is on the edge of a lake, but is surrounded by hills. Hills
can be farmed.

The Elk Temple - yes, your supposition is true. For the 1st 2 moths they will
lose BP, on the 3rd (with half-decent planning) will start clawing some back
& on the 4th be all evens again. By my calcs that's 4BP down if they want to
build there. At that stage of the game it's a drain, but shouldn't be a kingdom

Hope that helps.

KenderKin wrote:

I thought I linked page 52..... /QUOTE]

You did - 4th post bits in others...

Thomas Seitz wrote:
The whole problem I have is tying the PCs to ANYTHING noble...

Well, you could start them all out as the Aristocrat NPC class & they can then

specialise into whatever PC class they want...
If you have 6-8 players, then even they should breeze through most things they
meet until they get their 1st PC class level.

This would get some sort of buy in to the politics back home, or at least
'thinking' like nobles...
(Note: They don't even need to be actually noble. They could come from a very
rich merchant family with pretensions, or be the offspring of a high-up, but
non-noble swordlord etc...)


Good suggestions above, but also...

1. Neither weapon has to be the type of weapon listed. AP writers have also
waded in on that issue & said change it if it suits your game.

2. I can see Ovinrbaane as LN - i.e. the law as he sees it, & neutral as to
whom it is applied to...everyone equally!
Bingo - everyone except the Bard suddenly become tools for Ovinrbaane's use.

3. Briar - yeah, a bit harder on the alignment front, but as a different weapon
type suddenly becomes usable by everyone except the Paladin... Depending on whom
you want to have her, make it their favourite weapon, or their god's weapon etc.

You know your players best. It might be fun to 'make them' take a Feat to use a
weapon properly...or your players might not buy into that...
I know with my guys, unless I make it an almost exact fit for their concept, they'll
just sell the weapon without a backward glance...

Nooooooo - Zahiiiiirrr!!!

redcelt32 wrote:
I would definitely include Chemlak's kingdom building spreadsheet in the list of recommended e-tools. Our group would have skipped the mechanics of kingdom building entirely if we did not have this useful tool to use. Someone else will have to link since I am at work, but it has been updated quite a few times, including adding Ultimate Rulership options.


Groglodyte wrote:
As a final note, if anybody wants the material for my side adventures, send me a PM and I'll send that along.

Oh hell yes! :)

PM'd. Thanks for the offer.

mellowgoth wrote:
...and did a Pathfinder remake of old AD&D Battlesystem to handle the combat.

Hiya mellowgoth, any chance of sharing please?

I've been trying to think of what I can substitute, & have found nothing I like thus far... :)

hippster59 wrote:
1) Can Samurai take Cavalier Archetypes? I assume yes because the class abilities are all named the same thing but I haven't been able to find anything official.

If I were your DM, I'd say no.

The Samurai is a separate class to the Cavalier - & yes some of their abilities
go by the same names...but then, so do many, many classes abilities.

Want an archetype - choose a Samurai one... or play a Cavalier...

Jason, don't you just love how we're still crying out for your goodness years down the track...? :)

If you can't get them, at least look at the thread on each book.
You can learn heaps of things other DMs think you'll need to do. :)

Seems to me that Paladin will likely have the same issues as the Cavalier if
you're worrying about Stat assignment...i.e. possibly 14 at best...

Perhaps check out this thread for ideas.

As Aestereal said basically.

The Iron Wraiths are mentioned in book one, but pretty much not after...

However, what your question does answer for most of the DMs who have run/are
running this AP, is that you need to do more reading.

In order to do the AP the most justice, you should read all of the books ahead,
but if you can't do that - you need to have read at least the next book.
Lots of what is happening in each book is explained in more detail in the book
after, so if you haven't already read the book after when you're running the
book you're'll miss out on knowing the story & being able to pass on
good stuff to your players.

These forums provide soooooooooo frikken much information that will make your
life easier as a GM, and the game more enjoyable as a player - you should read
as much as is humanly possible.

I wish you good luck padawan - you'll need it for this AP! :)

Ditto please!
I love PF fans as a community - we do so much for the love of it.


Thanks William

Norin d'orien wrote:
Man i really love your ideas. please T.A.U. keep us updated!



Wicked! :)
Fingers crossed it works out for you - don't even need to know what it is.
Just knowing that someone deserving gets something cool happening is enough!

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