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pennywit wrote:
Additionally, you're likely to see at least one fey gatecrasher. These-days, my go-to menacing fey is a custom job named Sagroc the Ugly. He's an advanced Bogeyman with the Agile mythic template. I haven't completely decided on this bugger's agenda, but he loves nothing more than fear, and spreading fear. And (now that I think about it) what's better for spreading fear than gate-crashing a noble wedding?

My 'go to' for this type of interaction is a Spring-Heel Jack.

Not the one presented in prd or pfsrd, but one in Alluria's - 'Clans of the
Fey Realm'.
He's a medium sized (instead of small), CN (instead of CE) Fey fancy boy.
I play him a lot like Flashheart from Blackadder
He's fun.


Cool Mr Grogg.
You could have all of those sound effects in the background when describing the scene to the players.
You could also possibly tie a haunt to the place...just to spice things up...


Queen Moragan wrote:
This is incorrect, each book has a small section that covers some of the geographic features.

My bad - I was sure I'd read someone comparing them to the Mississippi somewhere

in the boards.
Plus, admittedly, I was looking at their freaking size on the maps - they
certainly aren't drawn little.

However, even then, this doesn't preclude smaller rivers than the main ones.


T.A.U. wrote:
I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not.

Hee hee hee - NICE!


River bandits would also work in well with a certain undead river encounter...


In short - yes, I'd say you're reading it wrong. From 2 hexes below Oleg's
until the bottom of the map is hill country. So Staggy's fort is in hill
country, but next to the Tuskwater.

However - that said - feel free to make it swamp. That would lend a whole new
feel to the area...but also make it harder for your PCs kingdom to survive.

As for the 'river' question, there are other posts on these hallowed boards
wherein the Devs have weighed in on this issue. They pointed out the size of
the rivers & that there would be other, smaller, rivers, streams etc abounding
throughout the region.

As for the rules... Depends on which version you're working with. If it's the
ones that came with the AP - fair enough question... If it's rules from any
other source, consider that they could apply to any game using the kingdom
building rules... e.g. in a desert or tundra setting.
If that were the case, yes, you'd have to pipe in water. In the Stolen Lands
you can set up a new town in just about any hex & arbitrarily decide that there
is a small river beside it if you want to.

Hope that helps.


Rivers/water...?

The main thing to remember there is that the rivers shown on the AP maps are
absolutely HUGE. i.e. a mile or two across...

This means that all of the smaller rivers are not shown on the map, so there's
no reason for somewhere like Oleg's not to be by a river...albeit only a normal
sized one a 100 meters across or similar.

The Stag Lord's fort is on the edge of a lake, but is surrounded by hills. Hills
can be farmed.

The Elk Temple - yes, your supposition is true. For the 1st 2 moths they will
lose BP, on the 3rd (with half-decent planning) will start clawing some back
& on the 4th be all evens again. By my calcs that's 4BP down if they want to
build there. At that stage of the game it's a drain, but shouldn't be a kingdom
killer.

Hope that helps.


KenderKin wrote:

I thought I linked page 52..... /QUOTE]

You did - 4th post down...plus bits in others...


Thomas Seitz wrote:
The whole problem I have is tying the PCs to ANYTHING noble...

Well, you could start them all out as the Aristocrat NPC class & they can then

specialise into whatever PC class they want...
If you have 6-8 players, then even they should breeze through most things they
meet until they get their 1st PC class level.

This would get some sort of buy in to the politics back home, or at least
'thinking' like nobles...
(Note: They don't even need to be actually noble. They could come from a very
rich merchant family with pretensions, or be the offspring of a high-up, but
non-noble swordlord etc...)


Heya,

Good suggestions above, but also...

1. Neither weapon has to be the type of weapon listed. AP writers have also
waded in on that issue & said change it if it suits your game.

2. I can see Ovinrbaane as LN - i.e. the law as he sees it, & neutral as to
whom it is applied to...everyone equally!
Bingo - everyone except the Bard suddenly become tools for Ovinrbaane's use.

3. Briar - yeah, a bit harder on the alignment front, but as a different weapon
type suddenly becomes usable by everyone except the Paladin... Depending on whom
you want to have her, make it their favourite weapon, or their god's weapon etc.

You know your players best. It might be fun to 'make them' take a Feat to use a
weapon properly...or your players might not buy into that...
I know with my guys, unless I make it an almost exact fit for their concept, they'll
just sell the weapon without a backward glance...


Nooooooo - Zahiiiiirrr!!!


redcelt32 wrote:
I would definitely include Chemlak's kingdom building spreadsheet in the list of recommended e-tools. Our group would have skipped the mechanics of kingdom building entirely if we did not have this useful tool to use. Someone else will have to link since I am at work, but it has been updated quite a few times, including adding Ultimate Rulership options.

+1


Groglodyte wrote:
As a final note, if anybody wants the material for my side adventures, send me a PM and I'll send that along.

Oh hell yes! :)

PM'd. Thanks for the offer.


mellowgoth wrote:
...and did a Pathfinder remake of old AD&D Battlesystem to handle the combat.

Hiya mellowgoth, any chance of sharing please?

I've been trying to think of what I can substitute, & have found nothing I like thus far... :)


hippster59 wrote:
1) Can Samurai take Cavalier Archetypes? I assume yes because the class abilities are all named the same thing but I haven't been able to find anything official.

If I were your DM, I'd say no.

The Samurai is a separate class to the Cavalier - & yes some of their abilities
go by the same names...but then, so do many, many classes abilities.

Want an archetype - choose a Samurai one... or play a Cavalier...


Jason, don't you just love how we're still crying out for your goodness years down the track...? :)


If you can't get them, at least look at the thread on each book.
You can learn heaps of things other DMs think you'll need to do. :)


Seems to me that Paladin will likely have the same issues as the Cavalier if
you're worrying about Stat assignment...i.e. possibly 14 at best...

Perhaps check out this thread for ideas.


As Aestereal said basically.

The Iron Wraiths are mentioned in book one, but pretty much not after...

However, what your question does answer for most of the DMs who have run/are
running this AP, is that you need to do more reading.

In order to do the AP the most justice, you should read all of the books ahead,
but if you can't do that - you need to have read at least the next book.
Lots of what is happening in each book is explained in more detail in the book
after, so if you haven't already read the book after when you're running the
book you're in...you'll miss out on knowing the story & being able to pass on
good stuff to your players.

These forums provide soooooooooo frikken much information that will make your
life easier as a GM, and the game more enjoyable as a player - you should read
as much as is humanly possible.

I wish you good luck padawan - you'll need it for this AP! :)


Ditto please!
I love PF fans as a community - we do so much for the love of it.

mindbodysoulATxnetDOTcoDOTnz

Thanks William


Norin d'orien wrote:
Man i really love your ideas. please T.A.U. keep us updated!

+1

+1
+1


Wicked! :)
Fingers crossed it works out for you - don't even need to know what it is.
Just knowing that someone deserving gets something cool happening is enough!


:) Yup we have Milkybars in New Zealand...but no Mikado. (Although we do have
something similar by the sound of it - but they are just called chocolate fingers.)


Hiya Chemlak,

As always, the rest of us are wailing at thy feet for the next incarnation of
your magnificence...

That said - life is about living it... Glad you got to do something tres cool!


Love it!

...but need some clarification.
We get Kitkats & Mars here, but what are Mikado & Galak please...?


Spatula wrote:
Kargadd didn't even get a chance to use his bite attack.

Oh - Poor Kargadd - Monks are soooo tasty! ;-p


Buona sera T.A.U.

Just thinking more about your PCs.

Have you thought about the weapons they'll be using? It just seems to me that
to keep the childlike feel - they shouldn't be using adult weapons... If it
were me, I'd be limiting them to simple weapons only...how would a child know
how to use martial weapons?

That could create problems with balance however...but there are some obvious
solutions...slings, knives (use stat for dagger), thrown stones, big stick
(club, quarterstaff or spear), throwing stick (javelin)...

One would also think that any magic would have to be innate - i.e. no wizards
or clerics...only sorcerers or oracles. That way - the child could grow up
with magic - maybe only '0' level spells for this adventure?

I'll keep thinking.

Ciao.


T.A.U. - Love the idea. Especially about having a kid being ignored by the guards!

If I were you, I'd get up especially early on a weekend & watch some of the kids
cartoons on TV - I'm assuming you have them in (Germany?) where ever you live.
I'm sure you could rip all sorts of plot hooks from them - & that'd help keep
the 'child-like' feel.

On a side note - growing the kobolds to adulthood shouldn't necessarily be a
problem. Just do a few years of kingdom building all at once...bingo...all grown up!

Have fun - sounds cool!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Turin the Mad wrote:
What is kobold's equivalent to catnip? ;)

MOON RADISHES!


Why not give some benefit to the player? The way the question was asked - all
of the benefit is for the kingdom...

E.g. yes, get a castle, but why not also just keep the +6 to Diplomacy?
That way the kingdom gets a castle + bonuses...RP can have it be the players
residence, but also - the player gets a bump to Diplomacy...something that fits
thematically with owning your OWN castle...


Scholar... Gentleman...
All names I'm sure you're familiar with & have heard before...


I WISH my players were that paranoid...
I actually asked one of them recently if I'd be better off with their kingdom's
ruler (an ex-player, now NPC) giving them quests & officially changing the name
of the AP to 'Adventurer Maker'.
i.e. they're still behaving like adventurers...


No inconvenience Sol...just helping the community... :)


Nah - we won't lynch you Chemlak...
..although - I do have to say that the bonfire is starting to get put together,
& we're having a meeting later to see who gets to hand out torches & pitchforks.

;-p

@ thegreenteagamer - speaking from experience - Chemlak's sheet ROCK's!
(Imagine that in a high-pitched, teen-gamer voice & you'll have it pegged!)


+1 to DM Voice.
Your group should have pointed you to that.
For future reference - all of the APs have one. Seek & thou shalt find.
They're free on the Paizo website for one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I'd go with the tree as a whole being normal, but being able to
'harvest' the scythe branches to create weapons for druids more like normal
swords. (effectively treat as ironwood or similar)

I think that 1 tree is too little to put to any effective use in a building,
you'd need whole groves of the things to do anything such... & then you'd have
the moral conundrum of killing sentient beings to harvest their wood...


Barachiel Shina wrote:
but the game completely discourages, or does not allow, this entirely.

Or, you know, you could actually use the rules...

There are things built into the rules that allow breaking the 50% 'rule'.

Some examples where the PCs might actually want to use some of their skills:-
Diplomacy/Intimidate (or maybe even bluff) - +5% sale price for every, what? 4 ranks?
(Of course, intimidate or bluff may get them into trouble...)
Profession (Merchant) - oh no, but my PCs don't want to have to spend ranks on
actually fleshing their characters out...no skills, no benefits - sorry...

There will be other skills that apply, or even spells...charm person anyone?

So - it can be done, just have to think 'box'...outside

As for the whole 50% thing - yup, game balance, but that can be explained if you
really put your mind to it...
I mean, honestly, a bunch of dudes turn up at a pub trying to sell legit gear,
that looks a bit second hand...? Honestly - who would believe them. How did they
get the gear, are the cops gonna shake me down if I buy it, isn't that my uncle
Harold's sword...?

PCs are not merchants. They don't (generally) have a shop or other retail
premises set up. So - they either have to sell it to a merchant who also wants
to make a buck (have you ever sold something in the real world to a shop? They
usually pay 50% or LESS).
Or, you have to sell it on the down-low to some adventurers in a bar somewhere,
& for sure - they're not going to pay full price for used merchandise, that they have
no idea of the provenance of...

As for PCs making stuff & selling it...that's a hard one.


redcelt32 wrote:

What I said about the smallfolk...yeah bad move unless they plan on building up armies and becoming a police state.

BTW, the reason I said I would have outside forces break my party's kingdom and exile them is that it would probably be easier for them to recover if they had to conquer the kingdom back from scratch than otherwise. Besides now they would have to work together :)

Yup, and you could bring in the points system from Book 4 for the PCs to gain

back the favour of said smallfolk...


I'd like to think that some of those PCs are in positions that they could, through
some diplomacy, or other, rolls (e.g. Knowledge local anyone?) :) find out
who they can trust or can't & what levers to pull within the area, so that they
can find out (in game) whether it's a good idea or not...& then act accordingly.

That way, they can play factions off within their own kingdom & actually have a
real tug-of-war for rulership.

Why not? This is KINGMAKER..not wimp-maker... ;-p Honestly though...why not?

If you GM it right & they don't get upset with each other (i.e. the players, not
the PCs)...then this could be amazing...

Of course, whilst they're doing that people elsewhere will be going w.t.f.?

* Kingdom's populace will start getting unhappy...& choosing sides...
* Restov/Swordlords may well send an envoy to give someone a slapping...
* Drelev might stage a bid for power earlier than book 4...
* Pitax = ditto...
* Varnhold's citizens may be lost for good whilst the party wrangles for power...
* Vordakai will gain in strength...

Play with it. :)


Rats - you beat me to it...but thanks!
I was just about to post that I'd just found where it says size = predicated on
how many lots...not population...

Glad you had some quality time away from us! ;-p


Cheers Chemlak, I'd guessed that one though. (I should probably have written it
in when I asked.)
Thanks for the reply though. It confirms to me that there's no extra bonus. :)


Also - I've noted that all of my PCs 5 settlements are showing 'City', even though
all of them are in the small to large town size...


Okay - can't find it anywhere...so am asking my gaming buds! :)

Roads into highways.
As written, they each give the same benefit.

It seems logically that a highway replaces a road & therefore the road benefits
no longer apply.

However, if you do that, then (mechanically) what is the point of building highways?

I've gone with stacking benefits. Does anyone else have any sensible ideas?

Cheers all.


Hiya Chemlak,

It's that time again & I'm into a 5yr growth spurt with the PCs kingdom.

Just noticed something on my first run through at filling in the new sheet.
Holidays don't seem to have any option to use the UCam rules, but in the Rulers
page you can select multiple rules sources.

I realise that this is the new URule format, but is there any intent to have
different rule-sets selectable at a later stage, or is going to be a 'choose one
& run with it' deal? :)

Cheers bud. Hope you're having (had?) fun with your mate from overseas.


I ran something for my players beforehand also.

They were friends with a sorcerer named Morian from this: -

The Wizard’s Amulet is a short, introductory adventure for six newly created first-level characters. The adventure revolves around Corian, a fledgling Sorcerer. While an apprentice, Corian discovered a letter written by a wizard named Eralion, who it is said some years ago attempted to become a lich—and failed. Accompanying the letter was a mysterious amulet with strange markings. Joined by newfound companions, Corian set off in search of Eralion’s keep and his supposedly unguarded treasure. But Corian is not alone in desiring to unlock the mystery of Eralion’s fate. Darker, more evil forces have designs on the secrets reputedly hidden with Eralion—forces willing to stop at nothing to obtain...

This adventure won the 2001 ENNIE for best free adventure...

They ended up pulling his bits out of the fire & his Daddy just happened to be
very pleased with that...
Daddy then pulled a few strings with the Swordlords to get the party onto a charter
after the previous party that was supposed to go were all killed...


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Feylin wrote:
On the Urule sheet explain which ruler # is used for which position because that isnt clear, who is the ruler, high priest, hier, exc..?

Once you have typed in all of the PC & NPC names & stats, then go into the next tab 'Overall'.

In that sheet look in the middle under 'Leadership'. In the 'name' field you can select from
drop-down boxes all of the leaders you typed into the previous sheet.

Whom you select is up to you, but most people look at the stats required to do each job &
select the most worthy individual. (Or you can completely freeform the RP experience & select
people who WANT to do the job...) :)


3 people marked this as a favorite.

...when the party Arcanist says "I don't care if the other party members want to go adventuring, I want to study Cyclops History for the next 5 years using all of the artefacts, clay tablets & pottery we just found in Vor Dakai's Lair. Oh, and can we build a university (instead of a museum) with a wing dedicated to those studies?"


RobRendell wrote:

Ooh, some nice stuff there. Consider it yoinked.

I'm not sure if you've seen this, but another GM did a player handout of Pendrod's notes for the players to find at the start of VV (so it's a bit late for your game, but might be of interest):

http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2n5wq&page=2?Dudemeisters-KM3-VV-Additions- and-Changes#66

Yup - already yoinked as a basis for my game! :)

So - you're welcome Rob (& I've yoinked some of your stuff in the past, so consider
us even!) :)
Well, until the next time! ;-p


4 people marked this as a favorite.
DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
You've spent more hours in Homebrew content than official adventure content.

Yep, yep, yep, yep...


2 people marked this as a favorite.

So, this is my write-up. It allows me to explain parts of the story that they would
otherwise never see. Much of it is just nicked from the book. Cheers Paizo! :)

I have used writings by (in my game) Vor Dakai (Vor being an ancient cyclopean rank
title, plus knowledge from Pendrod who survives & is rescued from a soul jar.

A history (as translated by Simile) from Vor Dakai’s writings of all that has transpired. (Supplemented with interludes from Maestro Pendrod’s musings.)

In the age before Earthfall, the fortunes of Golarion were forged by vast empires like Azlant and Thassilon. Yet other empires existed in these ancient times as well — empires ruled not by humans but by creatures of legend. The cyclops ruled many such empires, notably one in Garund and another in north-western Casmaron. Yet as with their contemporaries, Earthfall brought an end to their rule. And unlike Azlant or Thassilon, the cyclops empires have been all but forgotten in the Age of Lost Omens.

Yet while the cyclops may have been forgotten, they have not vanished from the face of Golarion altogether.
Pockets of their kind exist today, although they possess but a shadow of their former glory. Only in remote locations does evidence of the ancient cyclopian empires still exist, protected from the march of time by preservative magic akin to that which protected the mightiest of Thassilon’s monuments, or watched over still by ancient spirits and tenacious undead too stubborn to move on.

One such remnant, deep in the Tors of Levenies, was the cyclops lich – Vor Dakai. Although the name has long been lost to history, Vor Dakai was once a notorious tyrant and necromancer in Casmaron’s ancient cyclops empire. Vor Dakai himself did not survive the uprising and turmoil that followed Earthfall during the Age of Darkness, yet ironically his name did. The least of his apprentices appropriated Vor Dakai’s name in the hope of using its power to rebuild an empire; yet in the end, this task would require more than notoriety. This new Dakai became the last Vor when those she was attempting to command rose up against her and, in an ironic turn of events, trapped her in a crypt of her own design, hidden away at the westernmost edge of Casmaron, in a minor mountain range oft overlooked by explorers and colonists.

As thousands of years passed and Vor Dakai’s torpor changed into an ageless slumber, her name persisted in the legends of the region’s centaur tribes. Tribal shamans, inspired by visions, often brought the centaurs to a steppeland called the Dunsward in the region near Vor Dakai’s tomb, where they tasked their tribes with the sacred duty of guardianship over the Valley of the Dead — the legendary entrance to Vor Dakai’s tomb. These shamans saw that the ancient cyclops tyrant did not rest easy in her grave, and they foresaw a time when her wickedness and the pent-up evil of the extinct cyclops empire might one day be released by the unwary to plague the lands again.

“In the last few thousand years, the Nomen Centaurs have faced less exotic enemies and fears — Taldor’s expansion into the Stolen Lands led to much warfare between the Nomen and humanity and helped to maintain the Stolen Lands’ reputation for being inhospitable to civilization. Even as the domain of Rostland was forged, Taldan colonists ripped through the centaur war herds to the south, pushing them to the fringes of their former rangelands and farther and farther from their guardianship and traditional homeland. With the back of the centaur resistance broken and driven into the hinterlands of their new colony, the Taldan forces focused their efforts elsewhere and the cairn stood once again unguarded and largely forgotten.”

So great were the effects of this war that much of the Nomen’s lore and identity were lost as well. The original reason for their guardianship was forgotten within a few generations and transformed into a territorial aggression that extended around the eastern fringes of the human lands. When Taldor finally abandoned the Stolen Lands, the Nomen were hesitant to return to the Dunsward out of shame and fear. By the time Choral the Conqueror swept north through what would become the kingdom of Brevoy in 4499 AR, the Nomen centaurs were marginalized and largely forgotten, and the region of the cairn was a remote wilderness area of little to no interest to the new civilization of the area.

This status quo has remained over the last 200 or so years—until now, that is. When the swordlords of Restov sent agents south into the Stolen Lands, a new colony — Varnhold — was established at the edge of the old centaur rangelands, and along with these settlers came an ambitious treasure hunter named Willas Gundarson.

Ingratiating himself with Maegar Varn, using Varnhold as a base of operations and following an ancient map copied from an even more ancient tablet recovered from deep Casmaron, Willas hoped to find a previously undiscovered hoard of ancient treasure. Unfortunately for Willas, he mistranslated the ancient tablet—and what he had assumed was an indication of vast magical wealth was actually a warning of vast magical danger.

Armed with his mistranslated lore, Willas ranged far and wide while Varnhold was being established, operating under the guise of scouting to determine the lay of the land and identify any potential threats facing the fledgling colony. It was on one of these journeys that he discovered the site of Vor Dakai’s Tomb and crossed the deep waters of the Little Sellen on a folding boat. On the island, he located wards designed to prevent intrusion and grasped something of their dire nature. He was about to turn back when he glimpsed a cache of treasure just a short way down the corridor leading into the tomb. Greed forced aside common sense, and he crept inside to investigate — but as he did, he felt the ancient warding alarms go off. Pausing only to snatch a single jade bracelet, he fled the tomb and retreated back across the river.

Though all remained quiet as he watched from the far shore, he knew he had triggered the guardian wards and had a bad feeling about what he had done. He hurried back to Varnhold with the bracelet and adjusted his tale to say he had found it on the river bank, hoping to hide his momentary lack of judgment. Unfortunately,
Willas’s fears were well founded, for the triggering of the wards awoke Vor Dakai from her age of slumber. You now feel that what Willas & you thought was a bracelet, may in fact have been a ring…of giant proportions…

“Lord Varn, being something of an amateur archaeologist and historian himself, took a great interest in the jade treasure Willas had returned with, and tentatively identified its markings as being associated with the Nomen centaurs, the tribe with which his colony was involved in conflict. Believing the “bracelet” to be a prehistoric artefact of that culture, he sent word me, an old colleague from Oppara — a scholar who specialises in Casmar antiquities.

I was in the beginning stages of composing a sweeping epic opera dedicated to the millennia-sweeping history of the Iobarian steppes and gleefully accepted word of the artefact as evidence of a link between the Nomen centaurs and those of ancient Iobaria. Immediately, I set out for Varnhold to study this magnificent find and its provenance.”

Yet Maestro Pendrod was not the only individual interested in the “bracelet”, for with its theft and the activation of the tomb wards, the long-dead cyclops Vor Dakai had wakened. Turning her oracular powers to the recovery of the ring and the location of the thief, the lich located both in the settlement of Varnhold.

Faced with a new world of wonder, she began to send her minions out into the world to explore – and bring back word of how the world had changed. Vor Dakai became particularly obsessed with the audacious human who had unintentionally freed her, and upon noticing the theft of the jade bracelet, set about tracking the thief back to the settlement of Varnhold. Unleashing ancient cyclops magic calling forth all of the colonists in a daze, Vor Dakai captured each of the villagers in soul jars. She emptied the settlement of its inhabitants in a single night of horror. Up until your intervention, Vor Dakai had studied the lore she learned from Varnhold’s vanished folk and draws her plans to establish a new empire.

Her writings also dwell upon the amount of power she has lost over the eons of her slumbering. It is a sobering, but clear fact that had you met her in her full glory – the outcome would likely have been somewhat different… With her kin gone from the region, and considering the current locals as mere worms, the undead cyclops was confident that this time, her’s would be a lasting rule…she had not reckoned upon the fury of the rulers & adventurers of Greenland!

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