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Nice work BoH!


This one I think is what Spatula refers to: -
http://paizo.com/threads/rzs2pvsy&page=6?Ultimate-Campaign-Kingdom-Trac king-Spreadsheet#282


Hey Chemlak,
Me again! :) Howdy, hope you've had a good sleep whilst I've been over here
beavering away with your sheet!
Something else that doesn't bother, as it's just the tooltip...
The Spymaster gets to add their attribute bonus to one of Econ, Loy or Stab, however
the tooltip is showing the same as for the ruler. i.e. that the bigger the kingdom - the
more areas you get to add to.

It's not an issue, as the sheet only allows selection of one - but you've asked for feedback...

The more I play with it - the more I like it than the last sheet I was using! Thanks again - I
could NOT have done this...


Good points Orthos!


:)
I'll be sucking it up then! ;-p
Thanks.


Hiya Chemlak,

Been inputting values from my old sheet into your new one & would like to
add a couple of comments, suggestions if I may please.

1. It's as good as I hoped! :)
2. Doesn't affect me (yet), & I don't have the rules close by, but sawmill
& sawmill plus resource appear to return the same value. All others add an
extra +1 to the 'plus resource' box...
3. Just an idea - as it's not really a necessity. Basic rules assume that
your form of government is a feudal monarchy, but there's no way of selecting
same as the form of government on the sheet.
Again, doesn't affect me, as I think my group is probably closest to an
Oligarchy...

Overall - I love it however. A few of things have really impressed me!
And - best of all - it's easy to use. :)

Question - given my complete & utter uselessness at any form of programming...
I'm in favour of a slightly lesser population than suggested, how can I
alter my version of your sheet to do this please.
(If I'd have to alter many places, rather than one, just tell me it's too
much effort (seriously) & I'll forget I ever asked! (It's not worth the
hassle & I'll just suck it up!)) ;-p

Cheers dude.
Philip


Chemlak wrote:
It's FINISHED!

Thankyouthankyouthankyou...

:)

I wish I was in the UK & could shake your hand & buy you a drink come
May, however the commute from NZ is just a wee bit too much.
Needless to say however: - Thankyouthankyouthankyou...

Just in time too - we are likely to be doing the next bit of kingdom
building in our next session.

Cheers Chemlak!


Secane,
I think this is a brilliant idea! I wish I'd thought of it...
The only thing I'm not really 'down with' is the respective roles of
the Mites & Kobolds...
To be honest I see the Kobolds more as the lore/law keepers, & the
Mites as the 'fey' pranksters...
However...that being said, it really won't matter, so long as your
portrayal of it all is laid out to your PCs in a believable way.


Jedric wrote:
Sorry, if this has been asked before, but I can't find an answer anywhere. How exactly do you recruit armies in the kingdom building rules? Do they cost BP up front, or do you just charge consumption? Can you only build in cities? If someone could walk me through exactly how you raise armies, that would be awesome.

Book 5 - War of the River Kings. Appendix 2. Page 54...

(The original rules, if you're not using UCam)


Yup - that's definitely someone else's game map - not the original.


Heh, I've always wanted to reward a player with an aware Hell Hound pelt,
like the one in the book White Plume Mountain. That cloak was COOL!


fictionfan wrote:

There are many ways for P.C.'s to destroy an army especial if they are smart about it. With teleport the P.C. can bluff up run in and kill a few hundred in one night then run aways before the bluffs run out then do it again.

That's not even considering attacking the command or supply.

I expect an army to break quickly when having to deal with these super beings.

I also think that destroying an army single handedly should bring the P.C.'s a large amount of fame.

Yup, but what you can do to them...they can do to you...

Plus, if you're running a high magic game, there are all sorts of counters
to teleporting etc...

I've seen write-ups which discuss warfare in a high magic setting - they
liken it to modern warfare with missle strikes, small units of dispersed
troops etc...

But - at the end of the day - this is fantasy... So, whatever lights your
candle is all good...


Tangaroa wrote:
home made NPCs (especially druids) who feature prominently in the adventure path - I have a full circle fleshed out.

Nice - I've been meaning to do the same (have a druid PC), but only ever got

so far as making one druid, whom they've not met as yet...sigh...

Care to share, even some basic detail, of yours please?


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Orthos wrote:
Condolences for your loss DMD.

Ditto from New Zealand Dude.


Secane wrote:

Sigh... I wonder if I'm giving them too much freedom... :P

Yep...but all that means is you just have to work harder for the whole

campaign, or start again... ;-p
Ok, so maybe it's not quite that bad, but it'll definitely be a LOT of
more work...


Curghann, also consider that the bigger the kingdom grows, the more 'things'
the players can do each month. i.e. claiming new hexes & building new buildings.

BoH is correct, in that the more you get into the AP the larger your kingdom
is assumed to be. I believe (haven't quite got there yet) for example that the
size &/or number of armies is limited by how big your kingdom is...


Secane, you could also use the mods done & posted on these boards for a 6 member party...


Lee Hanna wrote:

I think starting with #3 could work just fine.

When(If) they finish Big V's dungeon, the powers that be can grant them the rulership of Varnhold and the surrounding hexes, and you can pick up from there. One of the PCs could be a relative or designated heir to Varn, if you like.

You'd need the map from books 1 & 2, insert your own favorite monsters appropriate for their level, before starting book 4.
- Or, you could just hand-wave that they subdue it over time, and start book 4.
- Or you could leave it as an unoccupied buffer zone between their new land and Drelev, and start book 4 with Tatzylford calling for help from their greedy neighbor.

Yes, you will miss the fun of starting a realm from scratch, but your starting point won't be too far from that start-point.

Great idea Lee Hanna!

The PCs could be hired by Restov to find out what's gone on in Varnhold
& take over like you suggested.

The Stolen Lands (which they should ordinarily have subdued in parts 1 & 2)
have actually been too much for the group of adventurers sent there, as
their whole party was killed by the Stag Lord & his bandits...

Your PCs then get to subdue the Stag Lord, rebuild that area (which
already perhaps has a town that they can link their nascent kingdom to,
& then carry on with book 4, just like nothing out of the ordinary has
happened...


Also - to build on what xn0o0cl3 has said above...
I've given my players treasure awards of BP, by way of finding old stores
of building equipment etc.


Sandbox wrote:
PS: anyone know of any good modules that contain a nice dwarven ruins/hold that is mapped out?

1. Agree with T.A.U. - the gold mine is perfect. In my game I actually had

some Dwarves interested in anything Dwarven the PCs found, but specifically
they were willing to pay to take over mines etc. (i.e. I made it part of the
50BP start-up fund...)

2. Module - may or may not suit, but I have an old D&D3.0 book from the
Sword & Sorcery collection. It's called Burok Torn: City under siege.

It has a few maps which might be suitable (small holds), but also a butt-load
of 'Dwarfy' type fluff which might come in helpful too...


The other thing you can do with Kingdom building is to actually do the
building (dice rolling, new lands acquired, new buildings built etc) but
instead of running it as a separate thing to the adventuring, you can have
it actually happening whilst the group is out adventuring.

I've done this once or twice when sessions (the stars) haven't aligned.


People elsewhere would probably think of her as a jumped up fool...
It really doesn't matter WHAT you call yourself, if you aren't actually that
thing, people will look down on you.
Perhaps actual nobles would make jokes at her expense amoung one another,
effectively cutting her out of the social circle.
People even further up may deal with her, but without taking her seriously.

All that adds up to is a penalty to any sort of social skill she cares to
employ. I'd make the minus dependent on the situation. Perhaps a lower
deduction (say -2) for those closer to her actual station (e.g. barons etc), &
increasing to say -6 when dealing with an actual Queen...

Don't worry too much about the assumed title & it being out of place however...
Many small kingdoms have arisen in real Earth whereby the ruler of a few
hundred or a few thousand has called themselves King...


Heh - mine was Mikmek also...along with several other Kobold friends I statted up.
Some younger Kobolds idolised the party, & each decided they wanted to be like the
party...however they all got it slightly wrong somehow (- generally a similar, but
different class).

I love my moment of madness when I gave the simple minded (INT 6) fighter the name
of General Trusk Barbarian Warrior...(His real name isn't actually that, but he won't
answer to anything else, such is his devotion to the ideals of his hero General Trusk,
a Half-Orc barbarian who has now left the campaign.


IMC I also had a different tribe of Kobolds side with Hargulka. The PCs had met them earlier & got quite a fright...they we're expecting levels of barbarian from humble little Kobolds... ;-p
I also gave the big H some wargs in his army, as well as an evil party
member from a while back. (The player moved back to his home country, so
I've been using the PC as an NPC who has been keeping a step ahead of his
erstwhile comrades in arms.)


Liam Warner wrote:
Obviously GM interpretation is required I was just supplying potential ideas off the top of my head. I had a book that had a huge amount of useful information on rulership (even a way to tie the king to the land so the two really were linked e.g. invading army is felt by the king and if they were unnatural enough might even give the semblance of illness) but I can't remember the title and I've soo much to look through.

Someone else has posted similar thoughts on these boards. Maybe they had

the same book...?


1st question with a necromancer summoning(?) undead, would be 'where from'
as
I'd really have to have a decent reason for there to be bodies to salvage
in N's world...& summoning into the demi-plane would be a no-go.

Obviously you don't want to nerf the player, but having a reason for what's
going to happen would be a must.

Sorry - that's not much help to you with your question.

However - if it specifically says that Undead take damage - why would there
be any reason to treat them differently there, rather than somewhere else...?


Ahhh, Gotcha Elegy.
In that case, I see where you were going with the whole 'gaze extrapolation'
thing... :)


1 person marked this as a favorite.

1st point...actually - no...only point...
An aura is just that. It is not just a gaze - it is something different that
eminates from a 'point'.
That being that case, you don't have to look at, avert your gaze whatever...
as soon as you are within an area of effect (aura), you are affected.
You CANNOT avert your gaze.
You either save or die ...or whatever. If you save, you can act normally.
If you fail - you can't. Simple.
Think of it like this - uranium has an aura. It doesn't matter if you're
not looking at it - you're still affected. The ONLY good thing from a PCs
point of view is they get a save (not likely in real life, as uranium will
fry your a!)

So, unless the player can think of a good way (6inches of lead anyone?)
they can't 'bypass' an aura - they can only hope. Think about it - a dragon
has a fear aura...do you tell your players that if they don't look at it they
won't sh*t their pants... Of course not... Save or die!

In a way - this simplifies your life... You don't have to think about what
if's for a few less thinks...

Inside the aura radius = save or fail...
Outside the radius = act as normal (...for now...)


If you give them a salary, make them spend an appropriate amount suited
to their station in life... e.g. they should have to buy several (not 1)
sets of nobles outfits, they should have to pay for or buy lodgings
suitable to a baron...etc etc

If you do this it should take some sting out of the 'freebie' amount you're
talking about.

If they takes the wage, but refuse to act the part...penalties should apply
during ANY social engagement...


Family first - always... :)
Look after yourslef & whatever the problem is. We'll be here with open arms when you return.


If you think about it - the RAW are actually set up to play any way you want...
Ruler = President or King...who cares? It's how you see & play it...what
is written down is fluff - the bonuses are crunch & that doesn't say you
have to call yourself, duke/baron/king...it says call yourself what you want to...Mr Prime Minister...oh sorry, Sultana the Greatest... etc etc...

All else is how you want to play it, but unless you're going for a really
different feel, don't try to alter the rules much - they'll work whatever
'name' you apply.
Even buildings fit into this category. If you're going for a certain feel,
don't call it xyz, call it abc - it really doesn't matter...

As others have said - cool idea - but see what the rest of your group wants
to play, otherwise there might be tears...


Heh heh heh, my guys spymaster has been (until VERY recently) an NPC sent
by the swordlords...to act on behalf of...?


pennywit wrote:
What if the cult can only summon the BBW in certain powerful places? Good suspects would be the Elk Temple, the Erastil Statue, Candlemere Island, and Vordekai's place.

Your idea, was what sparked mine...lets share the credit! :)

But...I LOVE this addendum! Very clever.
Imagine the secondary adventures to be had... A party of cultists try to
force & hold the temple of the elk for 30mins, so that they can complete
the ritual etc etc etc...

Nice one Pennywit!


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Dude - one statement...actually two...

A day, is a day, is a day! It is not 8 hours...it is however long a day
is in the world you are playing... If they day like that - tell them to
look up the word 'day' in a dictionary.

2 point. Ignore point 1. Because you will not need it if you follow this
next piece of advice...
DITCH YOUR GROUP & PLAY WITH NORMAL PEOPLE!

Sorry for the shouting, but my only other thought was to swear...


...or, playing off Pennywit's idea...

Have the cult be trying to summon the BBW, but at the moment they can
only garner enough power for him to appear in short bursts.
The cult is trying to find a way to summon him & keep him there...

That way, the BBW is still a one-off/rare being, & the PCs know he's out
there, but can only currently interact with the cult. The cult could
pop up now & then as members escape justice & form new cells...

You could even have a scene where the players are hafing their butts
handed to them on a platter by the BBW, but the summoning wears off
during the fight & he fades out of existance...fear ensues within the
party at just how powerful he is...ramping up the tension...


Rickmeister wrote:
Nah, those "named bosses" are strong, but not "OP" at all. They put the scare in the party, but for 20 point buy it should be more than enough to take 'em down.

True dat.

The only deaths in the game I run have been during encounters I have placed
rather than anything in the actual AP.
(My players got a 20pt buy)


rootbeergnome wrote:
I guess I feel like her general backstory and motivation don't make much sense to me.

Your story, you write it how you see it... :)

Just to point out however that N is Fey...we don't understand them, they
think different to us... If you don't 'get' her motivation...I'd say the
designers have done a good job of portraying her motivation... ;-p

Besides that - there are a few threads on the boards which discuss this.


Chuckbab wrote:
The supplements in the Rivers Run Red books feature a nice chapter about Erastil, including role of the clergy, holidays, etc. Be sure to check it.

Ditto to Gods & Magic - 2 pages on Erastil & his worshippers...


Love it too - I've done something similar for my group with 'stick on'
printed buildings etc.

I do have to say that you have done a better job :) & the use of the
actual trading post picture was inspired...consider it stolen for use over
the top of my generic picture of the old trading post...(now a shop? I
seem to remember)...


Glass Castle wrote:

RESTING (QUESTION)

That is a question. If the rest is interrupted, can't the players just rest again? e.g. 6 hours in, attacked for 20 seconds, then sleep another two?

Ok, 1st off sounds like the rest of your group would be better off with

D&D4E, whilst you get to hang out with some people who deserve a GM who
wants to make their gaming experience more enjoyable.

However I'd like to make a couple of points re this topic specifically.
1. Never forget that spells are per day...if they haven't gone a whole day,
It really won't matter how much they rest - they won't get new spells.
Their god is too busy to respond to prayers, the wizard's brain still holds
the imprints of the old spells...whatever... If your players don't like it,
tell them to read the most basic description of their class, in the 'spells'
section.
2. PFSRD has this to say: Rest
Fatigue is always fun... :)
Run it so that it's not 1 20 second interruption (besides that fact that
the PCs couldn't & wouldn't immediately fall back asleep. They'd be wary
or amped up for another 15-30mins before turning in again.), send in a
2nd & then 3rd wave of annoyances. Common tactic in too many wars to mention.

Good luck whichever way it goes...& get one of them to GM next time...


Saint Marcus wrote:

"In the decade that followed, noble ambitions burned hotter even than

the hearth fires working to drive away the chill of winter, and now all
of Brevoy lies on the edge of civil war."

If you don't want to, you don't even have to use that as conclusive...

Consider for example slightly restating that to the following: -
"In the decade that followed, noble ambitions burned hotter even than the
hearth fires working to drive away the chill of winter. Since the end of
that decade, factions have started preparing for something more, and now
4 years later all of Brevoy lies on the edge of civil war."

Ok - yes, I've added in more words - but the original statement doesn't
preclude a few years elapsing... :)

That aside, as it was more a theoretical point on may part - in answer to
part of the OP...
'How much time is supposed to elapse over the course of the adventure path? 10 years? 1 year?'
Up to you. I for one, fully intend having my players experience a time frame
of at least 15yrs & possibly longer... I want them to have families, invest
in the game that we are playing with more than the usual hack/slash/grab
that you're limited to in many other more linear games...

At the same time, I've seen other posts where it was all over & done in
just 2-3 years...

Comes down to 'beauty...eye...beholder...well, not an 'in game beholder'...
but I'm sure you get my drift. If you're unsure - ask your peeps, I'm sure
they'll have an opion...or not... :)


Captain Sakhbet "The Sandman" wrote:
Wait, 50BP? Where's THAT come from? I don't see it anywhere in the adventure path.

It comes from the Swordlords as a start-up stake when the PCs are given

their charter at the end of book 1, start of book 2.


Joseph Davis wrote:
Also, have you ever considered making a character sheet in similar fashion to this kingdom sheet (auto-calculating, clean layout, etc.)

I have to agree with you - Chemlak is a god! :)

However - re the character sheet...Have you tried s-CoreForge?
They're a group on the net who do sheets etc & have one for Pathfinder.
I use it.

They're always updating it...& for me, the best thing is it's free.
I have friends with HeroLab...& that's great apparently, but you pay for
everything, including upgrades when new books hit the market.


Secane wrote:

@Philip,

Give full HP? As in say a 4d10 + 8 mon getting the max 48 hitpoints?

That's interesting. I kinda like that ideal for the bosses.
But what about the minions? Won't giving full HP make fights drag out much longer?

Yes & no -

Yes, exactly that.

No - as if your PCs are higher level, they're going to do more damage (even
if it's just because they hit more often). Not only that, but you have 5
PCs & encounters are geared towards 4...which means that your PCs are
going to take out any encounter faster than they're supposed to on
average anyway...
Easy step - max out the Hp of the enemy...simple & elegant. I've used
it & seen others on these boards say that they have also. It works.

Don't get me wrong - I've used the 6 player conversion & I think it's
great, but when I DM I also need things to be fun for me...& sometimes
that equates to 'easy' which giving full Hp is... ;-p

Whatever you decide - good luck.


Hiya, just another thought re the 6 player conversion.
I too have used it at times (my campaign has dodged in & out of anywhere
from 4-6 players...)
To be honest - I find it simpler to the the enemies full hit points.
It provides you with the same amount of XP, whilst making the encounter
tougher. (Just so long as everyone is at the same/similar CR, you then
don't have people being too easy/hard to hit, gear worth more etc etc etc...


Just a thought, but if the party charge in swinging, with that many fey...
it doesn't really matter how many/few there are, the party will get diced.

I understand that you want some looking on with disdain, but even they are
likely as not to take offence if say one of their servants gets munched.

Perhaps have the party charge in as planned & have some lower level Fey
try to take them down, but then one of the higher level ones accuse those
Fey of (say) being discouteous & lay some SERIOUS smack-down on them...
Something that your party watches & then has a sudden..."Holy Cr*p" moment
when they realise just how FAR they are out of their depth...
I dunno, maybe some sort of sword weilding lady who slips in doing 4 or 5
attacks a round, with serious magic on her sword... Or a magic user type
who lays it down with a really high level spell...
Something your players will recognise instantly as an...ummm, we need to
play nice here, or we are the crumbs that will be left of TOAST...

To be honest - if you use this type of approach, you might not even have to
stat out the encounters, or decide what type of Fey they are dealing with.
You could say that their form is cloaked with magic if your PCs want to
try finding things out...but then, such an attempt would be 'discourteous'... ;-p


Also - don't forget that in the Player's Guide, it specifically calls out
Rogues as having 'not much to do' in the Kingmaker AP...
Traps can be a big part of Rogue...& there just ain't that many in this AP.


Try this separate discussion


Happy New Year to you!


Well, except for those females amoungst us - who won't love you in a
'manful' way - rather, more a platonic way, thankful for your programming
genius...
:)

Merry tinselmouse one & all...

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