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Rathendar wrote:
Ohh, i think i have that book squirreled away in my downloads. Thanks i'll take a look.

Definitely a cool book - I bought it!

However - again, just a word of caution - if you're using the original
AP ruleset - JBE's add-ons are just that - add-ons to the original rules.

They were mostly replaced by UC & UR...

In saying that though - I'm sure there's plenty of usable stuff...I just
haven't looked for AGES! ;-p

Rathendar wrote:
Since the Lots represent multiple buildings of a type, i wonder if things like 'Butcher' etc would be too small in scale to be needed as an improvement.

Hiya, just a quick comment - like your thoughts, but need to point out

that the first incarnation of the rules did indeed have all sorts of
different kinds of buildings, but the devs pulled back on this & they
are now all just called 'shop' or something similar...

I guess all I'm suggesting is 'call it what you will, but currently a
single name covers a multitude'... :)
Different name - same stats... You can do that for heaps of buildings &
over the past few years there have been multiple threads discussing that

Cheers & looking forward to what you come up with.

Ditto - I had a similar, but MUCH lesser version...

Name: Elunir
Race: male Human
Classes/levels: Alchemist 8th
Adventure: Varnhold Vanishing
Location: Flooded room
Catalyst: Staying around to help a fallen comrade

After telling the party I was going to kill them all - I actually felt a bit bad about this one...
(It was the 3rd session which the player had his new PC, after the old one left the party.)

As the room started to fill with water, the party wizard was felled by the large eel.
Not wanting Elensil to drown, Elunir held his head above water, whilst trying to figure out
what to do about the 2 dread zombie cyclops which had suddenly appeared...

As the zombies moved in to melee range, they both (pure bad luck roll of the dice to see
who was attacked) decided that Elunir looked like a good target.
Using their 'flash of insight' they both attempted a crit - both succeeded...
50 something & 30 something points of damage later, Elunir was decapitated & then split in half.


In the actual KM kingdom building rules, there aren't any for the situation
you're trying to describe.

There are a separate set of rules in the Campaign(?) guide, which you will need
to run separately from the kingdom building per se.

(well - at least I think so, as I haven't read all of the rule sets for a while,
so it may have crept in there somewhere...
If so - disregard my comments above.)

Happy hunting.


Also - be sure to read through the threads specific to each book!
I have post-it notes all the way through my books because kind souls on these
boards posted updated/correct stats.

EDIT: - Ooops - I think that's what Geeky meant in his above post...

That is very cool - but what of Ranalc?
I assume from the story that he replaces the big V, but as an undead?
I guess not, as that would also be a travesty in Pharasma's eyes...
I'm eager to hear please! :)

laraqua wrote:

Love the work! Amazing, amazing, amazing! I have noticed, though, that the city settlements start at village ratings rather than hamlet ratings? Is that intentional? Also I can't find where to give the villages their own alignment rating?

Hi Iaraqua,

I agree with you - Chemlak (& others, as he'd never claim sole coolness
for this project) has done a GREAT job! :)

Don't know about the hamlet vs village thing, well, except perhaps for
the fact that hamlets are a population of 21-60, & a general minimum
population for a settlement improvement you're building using the
spreadsheet is 250...automatically putting it into 'village' status.

I'd suggest that (at the moment anyway) there are no individual alignments...
This is a Kingdom building tool, which is a different mechanic than what
has been offered up for other settlements...which can have their own alignments,
settlement modifiers etc.

The 2 can work together, but they need a bit of work to mesh properly.
To do that, you'd need to assign them & track them individually. No
idea if Chemlak is working on this, but I'd suggest that if he is,
it may be behind other priorities he has & would take some time...

Norin d'orien wrote:
Thanks for the answer! What do you think of the idea of making vacancy count at a later point?

Also - instead of fully fledged 'kingdom' positions, you might like to consider

something like a 'council of elders'...

Even a small village might have a variety of people it turns to for advice etc.
Why not have people take up roles which give the same benefits, but are
not the specific roles in the rules?

Then, when the thorp grows big enough, the council can be formalised...

Also, remember that just because a book says 'xyz' about how the fire works...
you can justify a 'lesser' fire because 'insert reason here'.

What I'm trying to say is that - you don't have to use can modify them
because - say - the woods are wet & aren't burning as well as a nice dry forest
fire might... Or, you mention the party has fey friends, well, those same fey
might make things a bit easier for the party because they don't like having their
home burnt down... Or, the wind isn't very strong, so the fire only progresses
at 'xy'ft per round instead of 130...

Get creative. So long as it's fun - your players won't care what some book says.

fictionfan wrote:
I know. I just want an explanation to remain constant.

Yeah - apologies, I was in a facetious mood after being ill for the weekend... :(

I'm sure the dudes who wrote the AP never bothered to actually go & visit
the big V every few decades to see if he'd woken up & done some study...
It'd just be too darn scary for your normal gamer dude.

That being the case they probably wrote 'asleep for thousands of years' because
it was just easier that way...

magispitt wrote:

I'm not sure what to do about xp...

...because of this possibly varying party size, I'm unsure how to challenge them.

Okay - first things first.

Do away with XP all together!
Level the PCs up as appropriate, & not via any particular XP track.
There are a lot of GMs on this board who are doing the same - myself included.
This means that all PCs will be the same level - unless you have some reason
to not want someone to be able to foot it with the rest of the players.

It also means that you decide when they level up (there are hints on this
forum) and you don't need to keep track with XP.

Secondly - use the 6 player conversion posted elsewhere on the forum, and
then also just cut & paste opponents/Hp etc for the amount of players you have.
I have between 3 & 6. If my players don't know what is behind door A,
it doesn't matter how many turn up. If 3 turn up, there are 2 manticores,
but if 6 turn up there are 3 manticores, a huge water elemental, & the
terrain just got a whole lot harder.
Use your imagination & don't let yourself be sold into any 'fixed' plan
for the encounter...until they get there.

Possibly the hardest challenge you will have is making sure your PCs
are all at appropriate WBL...

Good luck.

pennywit wrote:
Maybe Briar is like Woody Allen ...

Oh god - please noooooo! ;-p

Yup,'s not a chainmail bra at most other fantasy art
geek's wet-dream pictures...

Hiya QM - I agree with you I work in kilos, so this whole pounds
deal really doesn't cut it with me anyway... ;-p

But we are talking about the Stag Lord's Armour - so that makes the cut for your
'magical' component. (Even though, personally, I don't think that should make
a difference, unless it's part of the enchantment. In my eyes, the weight is the
weight, so even magical items should be heavier than as listed.)

In various lists of equipment 'cloaks' are listed @ 1 lb - however I'd argue
that these aren't 'heavy' cloaks. I'd probably go with 3 or 4 myself. (Cold
weather outfit comes in at 7 lbs, so the cloak would only be half of that max.)

PFSRD lists a kilt (clothing from UE) @ 1 lb - it doesn't have to be an armoured
kilt... (Although - I agree, for verisimilitude - it should be. However, an
armoured kilt is 10 lbs all by itself - so that would start to seem to put old
Staggy's armour right up there anyway...)

Similarly gloves are listed, not gauntlets, and interestingly most magical sets
of gloves are listed at a weight of 0, with a few at 1 lb.

Most sets of boots (from memory) are listed at 2 lbs.

So - adding up a minimum reasonable weight gives, 3 + 1 + 0 + 2 = 6lbs.
Personally - I think that's too light, but by the same token - if you use
an armoured kilt as part of the mix, it's heavier than normal armour...
I'd probably go with 4 + 1 + 1 + 2 = 8, if you're trying to get it down as low
as possible - after all, the player made the CHOICE (more than likely) to have
a low STR - so TOUGH when they complain that they can't wear good armour!

Go with what you think - your game, you know how they got their STR, you know
what will work for your group. ;-p

T.A.U. wrote:
I was trying to see if there is an official way to estimate it's weight in a proper way since
this suit consists of a heavy cloak, gloves, kilt, and boots, but leaves his chest bare

You're welcome.

I think you can find weights for all of those items in various forms in
any equipment list - so why not just add said 'heavy cloak, gloves, kilt,
and boots' up & bingo bango - you have a weight... :)
(Kilt can be anything from an armoured kilt through to just a piece of
clothing, so you can play around with that figure a 'little' bit.)

And - even if they aren't in league with Rogarvia, why can't said house have
exactly the same, but called something different...

mcv, it might help to think about it this way: -

Farms are a terrain improvement for a hex. Like buildings in a town - it isn't
only 1 farm - it's many occupying that hex.
You can't build another 'farm', because you've already set aside the WHOLE hex
for farming...

Magic items from 'slots' achieve 2 things in my mind - yes, your PCs can buy
them...BUT they also add a bit of fun to your kingdom. The players might know
exactly what they want to buy, & order them from craftsmen etc, but the fun
comes from those exotic items which pop up every so often that the players
didn't know they wanted...but now they do...oh so badly... ;-p

T.A.U. wrote:
Is there a stated weight for the Stag Lord's special +1 leather armor? If not, how would you estimate it's weight?

There isn't, but I'd suggest you can go about it 2 ways: -

1. treat it exactly the same as normal armour... or
2. if you want to give you PC a small boon, reduce the weight by a few
pounds to make it different & special. (I wouldn't personally go lower
than 10lbs total, but it's up to you.)

Okay - see if you can get access to the Ultimate Campaign book - I think that's
what it's called. (You can access online - I forget where.)
They have a way better set of rules - something in there may help.

You've probably already figured to dump everything you can into stability, but
without knowing which ruleset you're using, the replies here will likely only
be generic.

However - that said, if you're that close, there's not a lot you can do 'in-game'.
Not nothing, but not a lot.

What you need to do is prepare for the worst & what you'll do AFTER your kingdom
falls into anarchy. i.e. what will you do to clean up the mess you caused. :(
Of course, preparing for the worst isn't the same as giving up! So: -

It may also pay to speak out of game to your GM & see what can be arranged.
They have no stake in seeing you fail - unless it falls into some evil GM scheme
they have going...
You could ask for outside assistance, which will likely come at a cost. e.g.
Brevoy, or a church of something or other might like to step in & help...

Re your 'Defend the Sanctuary!!' piece.
You say that only 1 of the PCs lives there, that means that the others will
have to come from somewhere to help... :)

Why not have them come across other 'obstacles' at which point they have to make
hard choices. You can either have them all in 1 group, or if you wanna get
creative, singly or in pairs...

You're racing to the temple & you have possibly 10(?) rounds to get there before
the undead overrun the defences.
But wait, that building there is on fire & there are people on the top floor,
oh & look...just around the street corner there is a small group of skeletons
setting fire to those shops...oh look - that child is fleeing in the midst of
the chaos...etc etc etc.

:) Have fun.

BigCoffee wrote:
I do think I'l have Armag up and leave, and Zorek will end his term and the cave will close. Loss of loot and current exp.

And when the players go back - telegraph some of what they missed out...

Show that until recently the place was inhabited. Leave clues about the
transformation that took place, have Zorek's journal left behind, aged
writings carved into the wall speak of Armag's final test & how hard it
shall be...& leave evidence that it's been passed...

If you structure it right, your players will have a facepalm moment when
they realise that they LET this's their fault...they could have
stopped it if they'd only just been in time... Heh heh heh.

BooYah to you all!

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I ran the Kankerata Run last week. I'd like to make the following comments: -
1. Ok - cheers Dudemeister - players enjoyed it... :)
2. In order for me to decide on who won if things got close, I decided upon the following: -

a. Each segment of the chase took 1 minute - otherwise it would just be silly short. Each check therefore was also for 1 min.

b. Because each part was for 1 min, competitors could do multiple things within each segment. e.g. heal, leave blood on the stones etc.

c. I counted the number of extra actions they took, and this number was what finally decided winners etc. So - touching a stone = 1 action, healing = 1 action, failing a skill check = 1 action, casting a spell...yeah, you get it... etc.

d. On top of this, all centaurs move faster than PCs generally, so each segment they 'scrub' off 1 action - except for 'compulsories' like touching a stone. Any PC who uses expeditious retreat or similar to move faster gains a similar benefit.

The competitor with the least 'actions' at the end won the race. It worked really well.

You could also add in something like a landslide triggered somehow...? e.g. Roc
comes back whilst players are climbing & drops a rock. If it hits a PC all good,
if not it could start a somewhat inconvenient landslide...

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Knicknevin wrote:
We're not going with Pathfinder rules though as my group prefer the Savage Worlds system.

That is a cool idea - I'm going to be swapping away from running PF after

this KM AP - & SW is going to be the next game I run. :)

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
That's pretty perfect actually. Plus it gives your castle that creepy vibe.

Yeah - but it'd make it a she'ite place to live... ;-p

To be honest - I can't see the Sowrdlords letting your party get away with it.
To have their names associated with a bunch of rampant homicidal maniacs? I
very much doubt it. If I were the Swordlords, I'd pay to have your party 'put

That being the case - you're going to have to do some MAJOR story revision. Yes,
you can still run it - there are even other threads discussing how to do it with
an evil party.

Search & you shall find.

Heh - my own game's party deaths have ALL been from tacked on material.
Let's face it, much of what's on these boards falls into that category...

Chuckbab wrote:

Something more action-oriented (or at least, confrontation-oriented) may be better, but I guess it's too late to have the first skirmishes of civil war happening (and I want the Issian nobles to take part in the proposals to invest in the colony).

Any idea for a change of pace while still staying in Restov?

If you're not keen on Pennywit's excellent portrayal of wedding shenanigans,

then how about making something of that which you've mentioned above?

You mention overt actions between the civil war protagonists...but what
about 'covert' actions? The PCs could be caught up in some sort of
assassination attempt? If you want to spice it up, it might be hard to
decide which side to come in on...
e.g. the person to be killed may be a Swordlord, but not be a very nice
person... Or, the person to be killed could be an Issian, but one who is
offering to sponsor the nascent kingdom...

Speaking of which - the AP as written has the PCs setting things up without
the knowledge of the Issians. I'd be interested to hear what angle you're
playing to change the story around that.

I did something similar for a start - but on a much smaller scale...
i.e. printed out the A4 map & laminated it, then applied hexes over the top
which had a line drawn map of the area that was slightly incorrect...that way
the players knew what kind of terrain they were heading into, but sometimes
the details were a bit different.
Hopefully that way they felt like they were proper (h)explorers ;-p & mappers.

The good thing about the laminated method, is that using different permanent
markers, you can draw on borders, farms, make notes etc...

Artemis & Orthos - thanks to you both for your kind words...
I must say that if this is the result of writing when I'm really, really tired -
Perhaps I ought to do it again... ;-p

I only hope that it helps the OP.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
ElterAgo wrote:
Also most of the people that I know that are really into steam punk all insists that it does follow real world rules.

Honestly - herein, I think, lies perhaps one of the issues... Are the

people you refer to engineers like yourself - or just 'fans' of the genre?
If the first - then perhaps you may need to check their credentials...
If the second - honestly, really? They don't know what they're talking
about...and you're right to be concerned.

Something that was mentioned higher up the thread, but wasn't really
focused upon, is something that may (or it may not) help you.
Steampunk is thematically based upon a Victorian level of scientific
understanding. This is not to say this stuff works, but at the time
that scientists were postulating that these things 'must' be how 'xyz'
worked. A good example would be the aether. Some really believed in it
back then, but quite obviously it has long since been disproved.

Steampunk of today takes those beliefs of a bygone era, & expands upon
them in a 'what if' fashion. What if those things actually did work.
(Yes, we know they don't Mr Engineer...but what if?) :)

I think for you to understand this, all that is required is a suspension
of disbelief. (Isn't it always!)
NO!!! Not disbelief of the science involved, but disbelief of who &
where you are sir!! (my assumption, but fit's thematically with a rant
from a Steampunk era!)
To appreciate Steampunk - you need to think like someone from those
times...and you seem to be failing in that respect.

In closing, I honestly don't see any difference between that or fantasy.
If playing/reading/watching fantasy & loving it, you need to be able
to place yourself in that realm. e.g. one in a place far, far away...
Oh - sorry, slipped between my fantasies for a moment... ;-p

General rules are that only the best suit of armour would apply, but I'd expect that all of the penalties would apply. ACP, Spell failure etc...

Search for Candlemere Island - LOTS of GMs have turned that into a Cthulu-fest!

There are a few mysteries around which you could also play with if you want, &
many of them are courtesy of Nyrissa (unicorn book one), or via other fey.

Why not take the fey in your campaign out completely & be replaced by creatures
of the mythos? Yes, a bit of work, but probably very rewarding.

Or, if not prepared to go to that degree, get Dark Fey by Kobold Press & similar
other books & incorporate a darker feel to the campaign in general.

Cool - wasn't trying to knock your idea, just to play devil's advocate. :)

There's enough ideas on this thread to sink a ship & you can't do all of them,
but all anyone...well, ok, most people...are trying to do is to assist with a
better gaming/playing experience.

You know your players & the type of game you want to run better than anyone
else on the boards, so you gotta run with what works for you.

Happy gaming!

I'd think that with 2 PCs it's going to be as hard for them all the way through
as it will lower no reason not to give new PCs the same deal...
i.e. free leadership.
Just my opinion, but worth considering...after all, if someone dies (even if it's
just through bad luck) they may feel like they're being punished by the removal
of something cool in-game, as well as the fact that things just got harder.

Cool if that's the headspace you want them to be in. i.e. don't squander your
resources, but otherwise - will it achieve what you want it to?

I'd say go with the temp mod idea.
Or if people want more detail - temp mods in their own boxes.
Or " " "even " " - a single worksheet that's not crazy, & only adds the same as option 2 above. ;-p

'Really' good condition they are not. Pretty good - definitely.
The top & bottom of the spine on book one seems to have 'come away' for no
discernible reason. I like my books in good condition also - so these have not
had a hard life & I was at a loss to explain why this 1/2 to 1cm would do this...

I think perhaps I may speak for the rest of unwashed, unbeliever dogs when I
say that I look forward to the continuing tales of the great & good Zahir.

Avonthalonus wrote:
Seriously though, I'm not railing. I'm just emotional because I really do love the Paizo products that much that I want to be able to hold all of them in my hand like a treasure. That's really all it's about.

;-p Now THAT I can appreciate! :)

As for Deloreans, I was there then too... In fact - I saw a replica on
the streets not all that long ago.

As a small (perhaps very small) glimmer of hope - I will be selling my
AP books & maps once I've run the full AP. I know there are people out
there who will still want them. The hope is small because we've been
playing for 2-3 years & have only just started VV because I've been
filling the rest of the world full of adventure. I intend to try to
do the last 4 books in less time than that however! (Or the likelihood
of me shooting either myself or my players will increase to an
unacceptable level!)

Not only that, but all of the 'books' would need updates to correct errors,
plus books 2 & 4(?) would need major work to cut out &/or replace the stuff
on kingdom building & armies.

Instead of railing against something Paizo have said they're not going to do
& saying that the reasons aren't compelling...when the dudes who own the company
believe they are...why not just dismount the lofty equine & move on...?

Pennywit's ideas are great...and if Abadar doesn't fit your party - there are other religion's willing to do similar.

Philip Knowsley wrote:
There are also other threads in the KM board which discuss this very topic.

Found one of them

Hope it helps.

There are also other threads in the KM board which discuss this very topic.
Not sure where exactly & they were a while & you may find...

Hah - I just had an image of him agreeing to go with the party...& crumbling to dust in front of their eyes as they cross the threshold... :)

First answer is 'no idea'...on the 'how long is a piece of string' scale.

Pretty much comes down to what you want/if you want...

However, now that his purpose is fulfilled - does he actually have to die?
I mean really? Couldn't some sage advise that he's found faint pointers to
Zorek in ancient's that point to a way to either resurrect...
or my favourite, reincarnate, him - to allow him 'the rest of his natural' in
a new form as a boon reward after millenia without ever being able to get a
suntan whilst on holiday at the beach...?

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