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Why don't you treat Davik as a 'Haunt'?
Then you could apply something like finding his bones & burying them would
be enough...
Or perhaps, finding & consecrating the ranseur, then breaking it. (Which could
be part of the ritual you were talkign about...)


Well that blows chunks!


Chemlak wrote:
Well, you could ask for me to finish all the Legendary Games stuff...

+1 redcelt...& a big ditto here...

Dude, we don't need to when you're such a hard task master on yourself!


Chemlak wrote:
Also, if you're not already, may I suggest the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet to help with all your kingdom management needs?

It's great! :)


This from James Jacobs: -

Pitax's claims on its nation are pretty spurious—they actually claim to control all of the Stolen Lands west of Hooktongue Slough, but they don't really have an organized patrol route and the city certainly doesn't give out much support to anyone who wants to do stuff like live or work in that region.

The region that Pitax can legitimately claim as its own, though pretty much ammounts to the bottom two rows of hexes on page 22, with the exception of any hexes with forest in them and the addition of the hexes containing areas K and L.

Here.


I wouldn't have an issue with it personally.


Curghann wrote:
"why would a patch of radishes boost the production of a sawmill?"

Have you tasted those moon radishes?

Sooooooo woody on the palate! (Don't know why Oleg likes them so much...)


For Drelev (where my PCs have just reached), I've told them that Drelev currently
controls 1 hex around the fort & all of the hexes up the road to the bridge
(but not including the bridge). I decided that in the basis of the resource in
the last hex, but the barbarians wanting to cut them off from Restov & hence
making them abandon the hex.

Pitax - not there yet, but I saw a recent(ish) discussion on these boards about
the amount of territory they hold. I think they say the bottom 2 rows of hexes on
the map, but that Pitax actually controls territory off the bottom of the map
also. All I can say is 'search & you shall find.' Others have scoped it out in
great detail.

That said, the other thing to remember is that by the time they take over/conquer
Pitax, hexes almost become superfluous to the story, as the finale kicks in &
armies & kingdoms kinda go into the background as your heroes go into the final
battle.
LOVE to know how you'll handle that with your 75 heroes! :)


Curghann wrote:

With those values, Speed became 1, but HP, OFF/Def/Cons all stayed as "n/a" and Morale stayed "+0". Leadership for the Commander became 8.

... The Army Summary tab properly pulled in the values I put in, but OM/DV/HP and Consumption stayed blank. Morale did too, but I'm not sure if something is supposed to be showing there.

Just f.y.i I used your stats in my sheet I'm running for my players & ditto

results...except for the summary tab, which was even less populated than yours
seems to have been. i.e. speed was also blank.

Chemlak, How's your tres cool life going? & any comments on this?

(I'm in the same boat - haven't got to armies yet...but nearly there...


Everything Chemlak said +1.

My own group wouldn't have made it through the 1st few years if I'd imposed
this on them - they had a hard enough time as it was.

I'd also say that - just because your DM had a hard time of it when the rules
were actually broken (i.e. magic item economy) he shouldn't impose something
like this unless he's played the new rules & found them wanting also.

Yes, the 1st rules were broken in that manner. The new ones... well, they don't
cater to a magic item economy at all - because they were fixed...
The new rules are 'NEW'... i.e. not broken anymore.

My player's kingdom is up to about a decade (I think -somewhere around there
anyway), and they are just starting to get a large & stable income...but even
80 odd BP per month doesn't let you go wild & build whatever, whenever.
(Note: they are not gaming the system either, so some groups mileage will vary.)


Tryn wrote:

I gave my players standard mundane items at will (e.g. armor, weapons, horses etc.) es well as a high lifestyle and basic servants.

But thats not a rule at my table but just "common sense". :)

Heh - kinda the same, except that none of the kingdom's horse vendors will 'give'

horses anymore, as the PCs have a habit of losing all or most of the ones
they're given... ;-p


Rune wrote:
I'd love to use those but I need to translate the text into Portuguese for my group. If any of the artists could provide a textless version of their art I'd be tremendously grateful.

If that doesn't work, I'd suggest doing something I do occasionally.

Give the book - as written - to your group, have it be written in a language
that isn't 'Common' & tell them they need to translate it... Have a pre-written
translation text ready for them as a separate handout, for when someone
translates the text, or uses linguistics etc.

Alternatively, you could print out the book as written, then create some 'paste
on' translations which go directly over the English version. If you use nice
borders it will look like it's supposed to be that way. You can then scan your
new version & print from that.

Hope you do find something that works though - they are cool efforts by different
people at making something for others' use!


Thomas Seitz wrote:

Well I am considering that, mostly because I think River Pirates are cool. ;)

But yeah I think maybe I'll have them own like a small port nearby.

You could swap out the Candlemere threat as written for a pirate base...?


pennywit wrote:
Additionally, you're likely to see at least one fey gatecrasher. These-days, my go-to menacing fey is a custom job named Sagroc the Ugly. He's an advanced Bogeyman with the Agile mythic template. I haven't completely decided on this bugger's agenda, but he loves nothing more than fear, and spreading fear. And (now that I think about it) what's better for spreading fear than gate-crashing a noble wedding?

My 'go to' for this type of interaction is a Spring-Heel Jack.

Not the one presented in prd or pfsrd, but one in Alluria's - 'Clans of the
Fey Realm'.
He's a medium sized (instead of small), CN (instead of CE) Fey fancy boy.
I play him a lot like Flashheart from Blackadder
He's fun.


Cool Mr Grogg.
You could have all of those sound effects in the background when describing the scene to the players.
You could also possibly tie a haunt to the place...just to spice things up...


Queen Moragan wrote:
This is incorrect, each book has a small section that covers some of the geographic features.

My bad - I was sure I'd read someone comparing them to the Mississippi somewhere

in the boards.
Plus, admittedly, I was looking at their freaking size on the maps - they
certainly aren't drawn little.

However, even then, this doesn't preclude smaller rivers than the main ones.


T.A.U. wrote:
I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not.

Hee hee hee - NICE!


River bandits would also work in well with a certain undead river encounter...


In short - yes, I'd say you're reading it wrong. From 2 hexes below Oleg's
until the bottom of the map is hill country. So Staggy's fort is in hill
country, but next to the Tuskwater.

However - that said - feel free to make it swamp. That would lend a whole new
feel to the area...but also make it harder for your PCs kingdom to survive.

As for the 'river' question, there are other posts on these hallowed boards
wherein the Devs have weighed in on this issue. They pointed out the size of
the rivers & that there would be other, smaller, rivers, streams etc abounding
throughout the region.

As for the rules... Depends on which version you're working with. If it's the
ones that came with the AP - fair enough question... If it's rules from any
other source, consider that they could apply to any game using the kingdom
building rules... e.g. in a desert or tundra setting.
If that were the case, yes, you'd have to pipe in water. In the Stolen Lands
you can set up a new town in just about any hex & arbitrarily decide that there
is a small river beside it if you want to.

Hope that helps.


Rivers/water...?

The main thing to remember there is that the rivers shown on the AP maps are
absolutely HUGE. i.e. a mile or two across...

This means that all of the smaller rivers are not shown on the map, so there's
no reason for somewhere like Oleg's not to be by a river...albeit only a normal
sized one a 100 meters across or similar.

The Stag Lord's fort is on the edge of a lake, but is surrounded by hills. Hills
can be farmed.

The Elk Temple - yes, your supposition is true. For the 1st 2 moths they will
lose BP, on the 3rd (with half-decent planning) will start clawing some back
& on the 4th be all evens again. By my calcs that's 4BP down if they want to
build there. At that stage of the game it's a drain, but shouldn't be a kingdom
killer.

Hope that helps.


KenderKin wrote:

I thought I linked page 52..... /QUOTE]

You did - 4th post down...plus bits in others...


Thomas Seitz wrote:
The whole problem I have is tying the PCs to ANYTHING noble...

Well, you could start them all out as the Aristocrat NPC class & they can then

specialise into whatever PC class they want...
If you have 6-8 players, then even they should breeze through most things they
meet until they get their 1st PC class level.

This would get some sort of buy in to the politics back home, or at least
'thinking' like nobles...
(Note: They don't even need to be actually noble. They could come from a very
rich merchant family with pretensions, or be the offspring of a high-up, but
non-noble swordlord etc...)


Heya,

Good suggestions above, but also...

1. Neither weapon has to be the type of weapon listed. AP writers have also
waded in on that issue & said change it if it suits your game.

2. I can see Ovinrbaane as LN - i.e. the law as he sees it, & neutral as to
whom it is applied to...everyone equally!
Bingo - everyone except the Bard suddenly become tools for Ovinrbaane's use.

3. Briar - yeah, a bit harder on the alignment front, but as a different weapon
type suddenly becomes usable by everyone except the Paladin... Depending on whom
you want to have her, make it their favourite weapon, or their god's weapon etc.

You know your players best. It might be fun to 'make them' take a Feat to use a
weapon properly...or your players might not buy into that...
I know with my guys, unless I make it an almost exact fit for their concept, they'll
just sell the weapon without a backward glance...


Nooooooo - Zahiiiiirrr!!!


redcelt32 wrote:
I would definitely include Chemlak's kingdom building spreadsheet in the list of recommended e-tools. Our group would have skipped the mechanics of kingdom building entirely if we did not have this useful tool to use. Someone else will have to link since I am at work, but it has been updated quite a few times, including adding Ultimate Rulership options.

+1


Groglodyte wrote:
As a final note, if anybody wants the material for my side adventures, send me a PM and I'll send that along.

Oh hell yes! :)

PM'd. Thanks for the offer.


mellowgoth wrote:
...and did a Pathfinder remake of old AD&D Battlesystem to handle the combat.

Hiya mellowgoth, any chance of sharing please?

I've been trying to think of what I can substitute, & have found nothing I like thus far... :)


hippster59 wrote:
1) Can Samurai take Cavalier Archetypes? I assume yes because the class abilities are all named the same thing but I haven't been able to find anything official.

If I were your DM, I'd say no.

The Samurai is a separate class to the Cavalier - & yes some of their abilities
go by the same names...but then, so do many, many classes abilities.

Want an archetype - choose a Samurai one... or play a Cavalier...


Jason, don't you just love how we're still crying out for your goodness years down the track...? :)


If you can't get them, at least look at the thread on each book.
You can learn heaps of things other DMs think you'll need to do. :)


Seems to me that Paladin will likely have the same issues as the Cavalier if
you're worrying about Stat assignment...i.e. possibly 14 at best...

Perhaps check out this thread for ideas.


As Aestereal said basically.

The Iron Wraiths are mentioned in book one, but pretty much not after...

However, what your question does answer for most of the DMs who have run/are
running this AP, is that you need to do more reading.

In order to do the AP the most justice, you should read all of the books ahead,
but if you can't do that - you need to have read at least the next book.
Lots of what is happening in each book is explained in more detail in the book
after, so if you haven't already read the book after when you're running the
book you're in...you'll miss out on knowing the story & being able to pass on
good stuff to your players.

These forums provide soooooooooo frikken much information that will make your
life easier as a GM, and the game more enjoyable as a player - you should read
as much as is humanly possible.

I wish you good luck padawan - you'll need it for this AP! :)


Ditto please!
I love PF fans as a community - we do so much for the love of it.

mindbodysoulATxnetDOTcoDOTnz

Thanks William


Norin d'orien wrote:
Man i really love your ideas. please T.A.U. keep us updated!

+1

+1
+1


Wicked! :)
Fingers crossed it works out for you - don't even need to know what it is.
Just knowing that someone deserving gets something cool happening is enough!


:) Yup we have Milkybars in New Zealand...but no Mikado. (Although we do have
something similar by the sound of it - but they are just called chocolate fingers.)


Hiya Chemlak,

As always, the rest of us are wailing at thy feet for the next incarnation of
your magnificence...

That said - life is about living it... Glad you got to do something tres cool!


Love it!

...but need some clarification.
We get Kitkats & Mars here, but what are Mikado & Galak please...?


Spatula wrote:
Kargadd didn't even get a chance to use his bite attack.

Oh - Poor Kargadd - Monks are soooo tasty! ;-p


Buona sera T.A.U.

Just thinking more about your PCs.

Have you thought about the weapons they'll be using? It just seems to me that
to keep the childlike feel - they shouldn't be using adult weapons... If it
were me, I'd be limiting them to simple weapons only...how would a child know
how to use martial weapons?

That could create problems with balance however...but there are some obvious
solutions...slings, knives (use stat for dagger), thrown stones, big stick
(club, quarterstaff or spear), throwing stick (javelin)...

One would also think that any magic would have to be innate - i.e. no wizards
or clerics...only sorcerers or oracles. That way - the child could grow up
with magic - maybe only '0' level spells for this adventure?

I'll keep thinking.

Ciao.


T.A.U. - Love the idea. Especially about having a kid being ignored by the guards!

If I were you, I'd get up especially early on a weekend & watch some of the kids
cartoons on TV - I'm assuming you have them in (Germany?) where ever you live.
I'm sure you could rip all sorts of plot hooks from them - & that'd help keep
the 'child-like' feel.

On a side note - growing the kobolds to adulthood shouldn't necessarily be a
problem. Just do a few years of kingdom building all at once...bingo...all grown up!

Have fun - sounds cool!


1 person marked this as a favorite.
Turin the Mad wrote:
What is kobold's equivalent to catnip? ;)

MOON RADISHES!


Why not give some benefit to the player? The way the question was asked - all
of the benefit is for the kingdom...

E.g. yes, get a castle, but why not also just keep the +6 to Diplomacy?
That way the kingdom gets a castle + bonuses...RP can have it be the players
residence, but also - the player gets a bump to Diplomacy...something that fits
thematically with owning your OWN castle...


Scholar... Gentleman...
All names I'm sure you're familiar with & have heard before...


I WISH my players were that paranoid...
I actually asked one of them recently if I'd be better off with their kingdom's
ruler (an ex-player, now NPC) giving them quests & officially changing the name
of the AP to 'Adventurer Maker'.
i.e. they're still behaving like adventurers...


No inconvenience Sol...just helping the community... :)


Nah - we won't lynch you Chemlak...
..although - I do have to say that the bonfire is starting to get put together,
& we're having a meeting later to see who gets to hand out torches & pitchforks.

;-p

@ thegreenteagamer - speaking from experience - Chemlak's sheet ROCK's!
(Imagine that in a high-pitched, teen-gamer voice & you'll have it pegged!)


+1 to DM Voice.
Your group should have pointed you to that.
For future reference - all of the APs have one. Seek & thou shalt find.
They're free on the Paizo website for one.


1 person marked this as a favorite.

Personally, I'd go with the tree as a whole being normal, but being able to
'harvest' the scythe branches to create weapons for druids more like normal
swords. (effectively treat as ironwood or similar)

I think that 1 tree is too little to put to any effective use in a building,
you'd need whole groves of the things to do anything such... & then you'd have
the moral conundrum of killing sentient beings to harvest their wood...


Barachiel Shina wrote:
but the game completely discourages, or does not allow, this entirely.

Or, you know, you could actually use the rules...

There are things built into the rules that allow breaking the 50% 'rule'.

Some examples where the PCs might actually want to use some of their skills:-
Diplomacy/Intimidate (or maybe even bluff) - +5% sale price for every, what? 4 ranks?
(Of course, intimidate or bluff may get them into trouble...)
Profession (Merchant) - oh no, but my PCs don't want to have to spend ranks on
actually fleshing their characters out...no skills, no benefits - sorry...

There will be other skills that apply, or even spells...charm person anyone?

So - it can be done, just have to think 'box'...outside

As for the whole 50% thing - yup, game balance, but that can be explained if you
really put your mind to it...
I mean, honestly, a bunch of dudes turn up at a pub trying to sell legit gear,
that looks a bit second hand...? Honestly - who would believe them. How did they
get the gear, are the cops gonna shake me down if I buy it, isn't that my uncle
Harold's sword...?

PCs are not merchants. They don't (generally) have a shop or other retail
premises set up. So - they either have to sell it to a merchant who also wants
to make a buck (have you ever sold something in the real world to a shop? They
usually pay 50% or LESS).
Or, you have to sell it on the down-low to some adventurers in a bar somewhere,
& for sure - they're not going to pay full price for used merchandise, that they have
no idea of the provenance of...

As for PCs making stuff & selling it...that's a hard one.

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