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Gotta love more features... ;-p

Heh, that dog was the only one to get a hit in on my players in the 1st round of combat...on the party Ranger. She took an immediate dislike to it - and whilst the party were fighting Drelev in the stairwell, her pet hawk took out the dog in revenge of the ankle bite... :)


+1 to kenderkin's advice.
I also put my players through Fellnight Queen. So +1 to Norin.
Also - check out Legendary Games plug-in adventures for this AP.

That is a cool idea!

Also - lookout a resource for Pathfinder called 'Tournaments, Fairs & Taverns'
by EN Publishing. Sooooooo helpful!

Just to add my 2cp...
I also love your ideas & wish I'd thought of doing it your way... Too late for
me, but...

I added another Red Scale tribe early on, & that worked really well. They had
ranks in Barbarian...which was a bit of a shock for my players... Heh heh heh.
The players wanted to eradicate them for in-game reasons, but didn't get them
all. The remainder sided with Hargulka later on.

I think perhaps putting a White Scaled tribe in the mountains, & a Black Scaled
tribe in the Hooktounge (in place of the Boggards?) would work pretty well

I also didn't, but because of your piece, the Black's may well appear soon...

Thedmstrikes wrote:

Glad to hear about the foot...

Do not make me employ my digital whip to get you back on track....

Heh heh heh - the beatings will continue until morale improves...?

Hope your foot isn't feeling so bad today.
My suggestion for the future - don't do it again...

Merry Christmas Chemlak,
Thanks for all your hard work.

NPCs in my player's kingdom have stopped 'gifting' horses to the PCs, on
account of how many they never came back with... :-)

Also - something that has come up consistently as far as I can tell, is the need
to introduce your players to the setting BEFORE they get sent out into the
Stolen Lands.
i.e. Have the 1st session be all about getting the charter & meeting some SwordLords
& Varn, & perhaps even Drelev.
It's helpful to have some of the movers & shakers in Restov/Brevoy get introduced
early to obtain player buy-in. e.g. different religions...who will then reappear
later (start of Book 2) wanting to 'help' the PCs... :)

You can also use the opportunity to have some of the quests from books 1 & 2 be given
by some of these people, so that there's continuity.

I wish I'd done more of this when I started my campaign.

There is a conversation or 2 on these boards about that very thing...

From memory different GMs handled it different ways.

For my part, yes, the theft of the bracelet woke him up, but I also had the
whole of his tomb still resonant with magic, which on a high enough spellcraft
was seen to be failing slowly.

In fact - one of my 'go to' answers... :)

@ Farvin...
Never worry about asking questions! :)
These boards have been incredibly helpful to me, many other GMs & Players
because we're such a supportive community.
Questions are always fair game for a variety of responses as a result, but
also, sometimes the people who answer need to be educated about the specific
forces at play in an individual game - every game is different. ;-p

Good luck on your quest!

Ditto! That's crazy cool - congrats to your wife!
Please post lyrics. :)

IMC these events have the penalties apply for all time & these are mitigated by
the actions of the rulers to balance out things - e.g. buildings or gifts etc...

I like Chemlak's Spanish inquisition example - & people do have a very long
memory...people still hate each other in our own world for wars fought centuries

As Spatula posted, if you go the way Farvin (sorry Farvin) is postulating, then
the bonuses from the buildings you build will also disappear over time...

This system is a simplification... That's all it is. If you want to make life
more complicated - go for it (with your group's acceptance), but as a GM - I
want it as simple as can be...

Build some stuff to mitigate the penalties & then build a bridge...

The man! = insert picture of Chemlak here...

Downloaded fine for me, of course...I haven't actually loaded anything in yet... ;-p

I didn't give any hints.
Later on, whatever was in the hex would either be a boon or a bane... :)
Of course, my players had/have amazingly high Perception, so they didn't miss much.

Yeah, it's ultra hard to keep all the figures straight without some sort of calculator... (I've never managed it.)

When you get there - a kingdom building sheet.
The best I've seen thus far is the one Chemlak caretakes on these boards.
Sick & too tired to actually make the link sorry...but here's the address. king-Spreadsheet

Agree with you there... It's great to foreshadow & get people talking about her...

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Thomas Seitz wrote:
captain yesterday wrote:
Hey now, Batman's not a bad guy :-)

I never said he was. But to criminals that aren't crazy, he's pretty scary.

Yup - but I'd like to add that - you have to know he exists for 'him' to be scary...

One must also bear in mind that dragons often assume humanoid form & walk amoungst us...

+1 to RuyanVe's comment though... 'You encounter a caravan of refugees
from the burning city you're approaching.' 'Ha, I get a 25 for my
initiative & attack them...'

Tent city sounds like a cool place to have a chase scene...could be
anything from an escaped bull, to a thief (or 2).

You could also keep playing up the bandit theme & have a bandit attack
be repsulsed, but then have fire be an issue...

Read ahead into the next book, find something/someone you want to
foreshadow & create an encounter around that. e.g. too late for where
you are in the story, but prior to meeting the kobolds you could have
had a different coloured tribe attack. Speaking of which, is it too late
to have a big attack by Mites? Low level threats to your PCs now, but a
good way to have them feel powerful early on...

Yeah - depends how you want to play it, so up to you in the end...
..but, I would have thought it put forth it's own story ideas to have a higher
level cleric of the same faith as a PC - imagine the fun you could have... :)

Other than that - Jhod won't steal any of the PC's thunder later on, so does he
need to change really?

Besides that - he doesn't need to be played the same way as the PC - they could
both have completely different ideas about how the church of Erastil should
work, for example...

My group is Lvl 10 & we've been doing it this way since day one...

BECAUSE KM is so sandboxy - more so than any other AP, you can't really count
on 'set' places or times to level - most people have probably done it intuitively
- I know I have.

I guess what I'm saying is look at how many of the encounters in each book that
your PCs have done & use that as a rough guide. i.e. They need to be 'x' level by
the start of the next book, this book has 'y' encounters. 'y' divided by 'x'

This also allows you to throw in all sorts of extra stuff. We've been playing
for about 3 years real time (at least), and about a dozen game time. If I'd
awarded XP, the players would be WAY over cooked for book 4 - which is where
we're at now.

Why don't you treat Davik as a 'Haunt'?
Then you could apply something like finding his bones & burying them would
be enough...
Or perhaps, finding & consecrating the ranseur, then breaking it. (Which could
be part of the ritual you were talkign about...)

Well that blows chunks!

Chemlak wrote:
Well, you could ask for me to finish all the Legendary Games stuff...

+1 redcelt...& a big ditto here...

Dude, we don't need to when you're such a hard task master on yourself!

Chemlak wrote:
Also, if you're not already, may I suggest the Ultimate Campaign Kingdom Tracking Spreadsheet to help with all your kingdom management needs?

It's great! :)

This from James Jacobs: -

Pitax's claims on its nation are pretty spurious—they actually claim to control all of the Stolen Lands west of Hooktongue Slough, but they don't really have an organized patrol route and the city certainly doesn't give out much support to anyone who wants to do stuff like live or work in that region.

The region that Pitax can legitimately claim as its own, though pretty much ammounts to the bottom two rows of hexes on page 22, with the exception of any hexes with forest in them and the addition of the hexes containing areas K and L.


I wouldn't have an issue with it personally.

Curghann wrote:
"why would a patch of radishes boost the production of a sawmill?"

Have you tasted those moon radishes?

Sooooooo woody on the palate! (Don't know why Oleg likes them so much...)

For Drelev (where my PCs have just reached), I've told them that Drelev currently
controls 1 hex around the fort & all of the hexes up the road to the bridge
(but not including the bridge). I decided that in the basis of the resource in
the last hex, but the barbarians wanting to cut them off from Restov & hence
making them abandon the hex.

Pitax - not there yet, but I saw a recent(ish) discussion on these boards about
the amount of territory they hold. I think they say the bottom 2 rows of hexes on
the map, but that Pitax actually controls territory off the bottom of the map
also. All I can say is 'search & you shall find.' Others have scoped it out in
great detail.

That said, the other thing to remember is that by the time they take over/conquer
Pitax, hexes almost become superfluous to the story, as the finale kicks in &
armies & kingdoms kinda go into the background as your heroes go into the final
LOVE to know how you'll handle that with your 75 heroes! :)

Curghann wrote:

With those values, Speed became 1, but HP, OFF/Def/Cons all stayed as "n/a" and Morale stayed "+0". Leadership for the Commander became 8.

... The Army Summary tab properly pulled in the values I put in, but OM/DV/HP and Consumption stayed blank. Morale did too, but I'm not sure if something is supposed to be showing there.

Just f.y.i I used your stats in my sheet I'm running for my players & ditto

results...except for the summary tab, which was even less populated than yours
seems to have been. i.e. speed was also blank.

Chemlak, How's your tres cool life going? & any comments on this?

(I'm in the same boat - haven't got to armies yet...but nearly there...

Everything Chemlak said +1.

My own group wouldn't have made it through the 1st few years if I'd imposed
this on them - they had a hard enough time as it was.

I'd also say that - just because your DM had a hard time of it when the rules
were actually broken (i.e. magic item economy) he shouldn't impose something
like this unless he's played the new rules & found them wanting also.

Yes, the 1st rules were broken in that manner. The new ones... well, they don't
cater to a magic item economy at all - because they were fixed...
The new rules are 'NEW'... i.e. not broken anymore.

My player's kingdom is up to about a decade (I think -somewhere around there
anyway), and they are just starting to get a large & stable income...but even
80 odd BP per month doesn't let you go wild & build whatever, whenever.
(Note: they are not gaming the system either, so some groups mileage will vary.)

Tryn wrote:

I gave my players standard mundane items at will (e.g. armor, weapons, horses etc.) es well as a high lifestyle and basic servants.

But thats not a rule at my table but just "common sense". :)

Heh - kinda the same, except that none of the kingdom's horse vendors will 'give'

horses anymore, as the PCs have a habit of losing all or most of the ones
they're given... ;-p

Rune wrote:
I'd love to use those but I need to translate the text into Portuguese for my group. If any of the artists could provide a textless version of their art I'd be tremendously grateful.

If that doesn't work, I'd suggest doing something I do occasionally.

Give the book - as written - to your group, have it be written in a language
that isn't 'Common' & tell them they need to translate it... Have a pre-written
translation text ready for them as a separate handout, for when someone
translates the text, or uses linguistics etc.

Alternatively, you could print out the book as written, then create some 'paste
on' translations which go directly over the English version. If you use nice
borders it will look like it's supposed to be that way. You can then scan your
new version & print from that.

Hope you do find something that works though - they are cool efforts by different
people at making something for others' use!

Thomas Seitz wrote:

Well I am considering that, mostly because I think River Pirates are cool. ;)

But yeah I think maybe I'll have them own like a small port nearby.

You could swap out the Candlemere threat as written for a pirate base...?

pennywit wrote:
Additionally, you're likely to see at least one fey gatecrasher. These-days, my go-to menacing fey is a custom job named Sagroc the Ugly. He's an advanced Bogeyman with the Agile mythic template. I haven't completely decided on this bugger's agenda, but he loves nothing more than fear, and spreading fear. And (now that I think about it) what's better for spreading fear than gate-crashing a noble wedding?

My 'go to' for this type of interaction is a Spring-Heel Jack.

Not the one presented in prd or pfsrd, but one in Alluria's - 'Clans of the
Fey Realm'.
He's a medium sized (instead of small), CN (instead of CE) Fey fancy boy.
I play him a lot like Flashheart from Blackadder
He's fun.

Cool Mr Grogg.
You could have all of those sound effects in the background when describing the scene to the players.
You could also possibly tie a haunt to the place...just to spice things up...

Queen Moragan wrote:
This is incorrect, each book has a small section that covers some of the geographic features.

My bad - I was sure I'd read someone comparing them to the Mississippi somewhere

in the boards.
Plus, admittedly, I was looking at their freaking size on the maps - they
certainly aren't drawn little.

However, even then, this doesn't preclude smaller rivers than the main ones.

T.A.U. wrote:
I'm picturing the Pengu like this ones, which could be worst... or not.

Hee hee hee - NICE!

River bandits would also work in well with a certain undead river encounter...

In short - yes, I'd say you're reading it wrong. From 2 hexes below Oleg's
until the bottom of the map is hill country. So Staggy's fort is in hill
country, but next to the Tuskwater.

However - that said - feel free to make it swamp. That would lend a whole new
feel to the area...but also make it harder for your PCs kingdom to survive.

As for the 'river' question, there are other posts on these hallowed boards
wherein the Devs have weighed in on this issue. They pointed out the size of
the rivers & that there would be other, smaller, rivers, streams etc abounding
throughout the region.

As for the rules... Depends on which version you're working with. If it's the
ones that came with the AP - fair enough question... If it's rules from any
other source, consider that they could apply to any game using the kingdom
building rules... e.g. in a desert or tundra setting.
If that were the case, yes, you'd have to pipe in water. In the Stolen Lands
you can set up a new town in just about any hex & arbitrarily decide that there
is a small river beside it if you want to.

Hope that helps.


The main thing to remember there is that the rivers shown on the AP maps are
absolutely HUGE. i.e. a mile or two across...

This means that all of the smaller rivers are not shown on the map, so there's
no reason for somewhere like Oleg's not to be by a river...albeit only a normal
sized one a 100 meters across or similar.

The Stag Lord's fort is on the edge of a lake, but is surrounded by hills. Hills
can be farmed.

The Elk Temple - yes, your supposition is true. For the 1st 2 moths they will
lose BP, on the 3rd (with half-decent planning) will start clawing some back
& on the 4th be all evens again. By my calcs that's 4BP down if they want to
build there. At that stage of the game it's a drain, but shouldn't be a kingdom

Hope that helps.

KenderKin wrote:

I thought I linked page 52..... /QUOTE]

You did - 4th post bits in others...

Thomas Seitz wrote:
The whole problem I have is tying the PCs to ANYTHING noble...

Well, you could start them all out as the Aristocrat NPC class & they can then

specialise into whatever PC class they want...
If you have 6-8 players, then even they should breeze through most things they
meet until they get their 1st PC class level.

This would get some sort of buy in to the politics back home, or at least
'thinking' like nobles...
(Note: They don't even need to be actually noble. They could come from a very
rich merchant family with pretensions, or be the offspring of a high-up, but
non-noble swordlord etc...)

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