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Okay - see if you can get access to the Ultimate Campaign book - I think that's
what it's called. (You can access online - I forget where.)
They have a way better set of rules - something in there may help.

You've probably already figured to dump everything you can into stability, but
without knowing which ruleset you're using, the replies here will likely only
be generic.

However - that said, if you're that close, there's not a lot you can do 'in-game'.
Not nothing, but not a lot.

What you need to do is prepare for the worst & what you'll do AFTER your kingdom
falls into anarchy. i.e. what will you do to clean up the mess you caused. :(
Of course, preparing for the worst isn't the same as giving up! So: -

It may also pay to speak out of game to your GM & see what can be arranged.
They have no stake in seeing you fail - unless it falls into some evil GM scheme
they have going...
You could ask for outside assistance, which will likely come at a cost. e.g.
Brevoy, or a church of something or other might like to step in & help...

Re your 'Defend the Sanctuary!!' piece.
You say that only 1 of the PCs lives there, that means that the others will
have to come from somewhere to help... :)

Why not have them come across other 'obstacles' at which point they have to make
hard choices. You can either have them all in 1 group, or if you wanna get
creative, singly or in pairs...

You're racing to the temple & you have possibly 10(?) rounds to get there before
the undead overrun the defences.
But wait, that building there is on fire & there are people on the top floor,
oh & look...just around the street corner there is a small group of skeletons
setting fire to those shops...oh look - that child is fleeing in the midst of
the chaos...etc etc etc.

:) Have fun.

BigCoffee wrote:
I do think I'l have Armag up and leave, and Zorek will end his term and the cave will close. Loss of loot and current exp.

And when the players go back - telegraph some of what they missed out...

Show that until recently the place was inhabited. Leave clues about the
transformation that took place, have Zorek's journal left behind, aged
writings carved into the wall speak of Armag's final test & how hard it
shall be...& leave evidence that it's been passed...

If you structure it right, your players will have a facepalm moment when
they realise that they LET this's their fault...they could have
stopped it if they'd only just been in time... Heh heh heh.

BooYah to you all!

1 person marked this as a favorite.

I ran the Kankerata Run last week. I'd like to make the following comments: -
1. Ok - cheers Dudemeister - players enjoyed it... :)
2. In order for me to decide on who won if things got close, I decided upon the following: -

a. Each segment of the chase took 1 minute - otherwise it would just be silly short. Each check therefore was also for 1 min.

b. Because each part was for 1 min, competitors could do multiple things within each segment. e.g. heal, leave blood on the stones etc.

c. I counted the number of extra actions they took, and this number was what finally decided winners etc. So - touching a stone = 1 action, healing = 1 action, failing a skill check = 1 action, casting a spell...yeah, you get it... etc.

d. On top of this, all centaurs move faster than PCs generally, so each segment they 'scrub' off 1 action - except for 'compulsories' like touching a stone. Any PC who uses expeditious retreat or similar to move faster gains a similar benefit.

The competitor with the least 'actions' at the end won the race. It worked really well.

You could also add in something like a landslide triggered somehow...? e.g. Roc
comes back whilst players are climbing & drops a rock. If it hits a PC all good,
if not it could start a somewhat inconvenient landslide...

1 person marked this as a favorite.
Knicknevin wrote:
We're not going with Pathfinder rules though as my group prefer the Savage Worlds system.

That is a cool idea - I'm going to be swapping away from running PF after

this KM AP - & SW is going to be the next game I run. :)

Tiny Coffee Golem wrote:
That's pretty perfect actually. Plus it gives your castle that creepy vibe.

Yeah - but it'd make it a she'ite place to live... ;-p

To be honest - I can't see the Sowrdlords letting your party get away with it.
To have their names associated with a bunch of rampant homicidal maniacs? I
very much doubt it. If I were the Swordlords, I'd pay to have your party 'put

That being the case - you're going to have to do some MAJOR story revision. Yes,
you can still run it - there are even other threads discussing how to do it with
an evil party.

Search & you shall find.

Heh - my own game's party deaths have ALL been from tacked on material.
Let's face it, much of what's on these boards falls into that category...

Chuckbab wrote:

Something more action-oriented (or at least, confrontation-oriented) may be better, but I guess it's too late to have the first skirmishes of civil war happening (and I want the Issian nobles to take part in the proposals to invest in the colony).

Any idea for a change of pace while still staying in Restov?

If you're not keen on Pennywit's excellent portrayal of wedding shenanigans,

then how about making something of that which you've mentioned above?

You mention overt actions between the civil war protagonists...but what
about 'covert' actions? The PCs could be caught up in some sort of
assassination attempt? If you want to spice it up, it might be hard to
decide which side to come in on...
e.g. the person to be killed may be a Swordlord, but not be a very nice
person... Or, the person to be killed could be an Issian, but one who is
offering to sponsor the nascent kingdom...

Speaking of which - the AP as written has the PCs setting things up without
the knowledge of the Issians. I'd be interested to hear what angle you're
playing to change the story around that.

I did something similar for a start - but on a much smaller scale...
i.e. printed out the A4 map & laminated it, then applied hexes over the top
which had a line drawn map of the area that was slightly incorrect...that way
the players knew what kind of terrain they were heading into, but sometimes
the details were a bit different.
Hopefully that way they felt like they were proper (h)explorers ;-p & mappers.

The good thing about the laminated method, is that using different permanent
markers, you can draw on borders, farms, make notes etc...

Artemis & Orthos - thanks to you both for your kind words...
I must say that if this is the result of writing when I'm really, really tired -
Perhaps I ought to do it again... ;-p

I only hope that it helps the OP.

2 people marked this as a favorite.
ElterAgo wrote:
Also most of the people that I know that are really into steam punk all insists that it does follow real world rules.

Honestly - herein, I think, lies perhaps one of the issues... Are the

people you refer to engineers like yourself - or just 'fans' of the genre?
If the first - then perhaps you may need to check their credentials...
If the second - honestly, really? They don't know what they're talking
about...and you're right to be concerned.

Something that was mentioned higher up the thread, but wasn't really
focused upon, is something that may (or it may not) help you.
Steampunk is thematically based upon a Victorian level of scientific
understanding. This is not to say this stuff works, but at the time
that scientists were postulating that these things 'must' be how 'xyz'
worked. A good example would be the aether. Some really believed in it
back then, but quite obviously it has long since been disproved.

Steampunk of today takes those beliefs of a bygone era, & expands upon
them in a 'what if' fashion. What if those things actually did work.
(Yes, we know they don't Mr Engineer...but what if?) :)

I think for you to understand this, all that is required is a suspension
of disbelief. (Isn't it always!)
NO!!! Not disbelief of the science involved, but disbelief of who &
where you are sir!! (my assumption, but fit's thematically with a rant
from a Steampunk era!)
To appreciate Steampunk - you need to think like someone from those
times...and you seem to be failing in that respect.

In closing, I honestly don't see any difference between that or fantasy.
If playing/reading/watching fantasy & loving it, you need to be able
to place yourself in that realm. e.g. one in a place far, far away...
Oh - sorry, slipped between my fantasies for a moment... ;-p

General rules are that only the best suit of armour would apply, but I'd expect that all of the penalties would apply. ACP, Spell failure etc...

Search for Candlemere Island - LOTS of GMs have turned that into a Cthulu-fest!

There are a few mysteries around which you could also play with if you want, &
many of them are courtesy of Nyrissa (unicorn book one), or via other fey.

Why not take the fey in your campaign out completely & be replaced by creatures
of the mythos? Yes, a bit of work, but probably very rewarding.

Or, if not prepared to go to that degree, get Dark Fey by Kobold Press & similar
other books & incorporate a darker feel to the campaign in general.

Cool - wasn't trying to knock your idea, just to play devil's advocate. :)

There's enough ideas on this thread to sink a ship & you can't do all of them,
but all anyone...well, ok, most people...are trying to do is to assist with a
better gaming/playing experience.

You know your players & the type of game you want to run better than anyone
else on the boards, so you gotta run with what works for you.

Happy gaming!

I'd think that with 2 PCs it's going to be as hard for them all the way through
as it will lower no reason not to give new PCs the same deal...
i.e. free leadership.
Just my opinion, but worth considering...after all, if someone dies (even if it's
just through bad luck) they may feel like they're being punished by the removal
of something cool in-game, as well as the fact that things just got harder.

Cool if that's the headspace you want them to be in. i.e. don't squander your
resources, but otherwise - will it achieve what you want it to?

I'd say go with the temp mod idea.
Or if people want more detail - temp mods in their own boxes.
Or " " "even " " - a single worksheet that's not crazy, & only adds the same as option 2 above. ;-p

'Really' good condition they are not. Pretty good - definitely.
The top & bottom of the spine on book one seems to have 'come away' for no
discernible reason. I like my books in good condition also - so these have not
had a hard life & I was at a loss to explain why this 1/2 to 1cm would do this...

I think perhaps I may speak for the rest of unwashed, unbeliever dogs when I
say that I look forward to the continuing tales of the great & good Zahir.

Avonthalonus wrote:
Seriously though, I'm not railing. I'm just emotional because I really do love the Paizo products that much that I want to be able to hold all of them in my hand like a treasure. That's really all it's about.

;-p Now THAT I can appreciate! :)

As for Deloreans, I was there then too... In fact - I saw a replica on
the streets not all that long ago.

As a small (perhaps very small) glimmer of hope - I will be selling my
AP books & maps once I've run the full AP. I know there are people out
there who will still want them. The hope is small because we've been
playing for 2-3 years & have only just started VV because I've been
filling the rest of the world full of adventure. I intend to try to
do the last 4 books in less time than that however! (Or the likelihood
of me shooting either myself or my players will increase to an
unacceptable level!)

Not only that, but all of the 'books' would need updates to correct errors,
plus books 2 & 4(?) would need major work to cut out &/or replace the stuff
on kingdom building & armies.

Instead of railing against something Paizo have said they're not going to do
& saying that the reasons aren't compelling...when the dudes who own the company
believe they are...why not just dismount the lofty equine & move on...?

Pennywit's ideas are great...and if Abadar doesn't fit your party - there are other religion's willing to do similar.

Philip Knowsley wrote:
There are also other threads in the KM board which discuss this very topic.

Found one of them

Hope it helps.

There are also other threads in the KM board which discuss this very topic.
Not sure where exactly & they were a while & you may find...

Hah - I just had an image of him agreeing to go with the party...& crumbling to dust in front of their eyes as they cross the threshold... :)

First answer is 'no idea'...on the 'how long is a piece of string' scale.

Pretty much comes down to what you want/if you want...

However, now that his purpose is fulfilled - does he actually have to die?
I mean really? Couldn't some sage advise that he's found faint pointers to
Zorek in ancient's that point to a way to either resurrect...
or my favourite, reincarnate, him - to allow him 'the rest of his natural' in
a new form as a boon reward after millenia without ever being able to get a
suntan whilst on holiday at the beach...?

:) Keep the faith dude!
I can certainly identify with the enthusiasm deal... It's the end of winter here
& I haven't had enough sun yet. ;-p

Orthos - that is brilliant! Love the idea.
You could even take it further & make the 'hive-mind' aspect an intelligence
involving the planet as a whole...


Thought I'd check in & ask how the UR sheet is going.
We haven't done any building since my last post, & even though we need to' I'm
going through a patch where my dedication to the cause is at a low ebb - so
they'll just have to wait. ;-p

So - is the UR sheet living up to your expectations Chemlak? Anyone else?

Cheers & have a cool week.

DM_aka_Dudemeister wrote:
Kyudoka wrote:
13) Use the wedding between a PC and Lily as the kickoff for Realm of the Fellnight Queen
14) Use the wedding of two of your PCs to EACH OTHER as the kickoff to Realm of the Fellnight Queen

29) Use the wedding of Varn to his young new bride (who is younger than his oldest daughter, who is betrothed to a PC) as the kickoff to Realm of the Fellnight Queen...

(Which was run immediately before some kingdom building & then straight into book 3 VV.)

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pennywit wrote:
My current thought is that Realm of the Fellnight Queen could be used as a way to tie Varnhold closer to my players, BEFORE the Vanishing occurs. Thoughts?

I've already done so (although in a different hex - which is neither

here nor there) with the trigger being the marriage of Varn to a new
Tenzikil crashes that, one of the party members outbid him for his
chosen's cakes (I think) & we went from there...

It worked really well, although I made Rhoswen a princess, rather than
queen... You'll never guess who her mummy is! ;-p

By the sound of your campaign, you'll really need to bump up the threat
of the fellnight spriggans. My group chewed through them, & they are not
an optimized group really at all... Also - we're not doing the whole
mythic thing...a ruleset to far... :)

Only thought I have is that Aleksi could leave some sort of scrying 'item' with
the big V, so that if/when he is taken out, Aleksi could teleport in, steal the
occulus & teleport back out...
Perhaps have teleport tied to a contingency spell? e.g. teleport in, ignore the
PCs & take the hits getting the occulus & then contingency cuts in to teleport
away, without having to do so defensively etc.
This would theoretically mean that he was only around the PCs at their lowest
point - i.e. they'd have already thrown everything at V to take him out.

Ipmeerk wrote:
Deaths Adorable Apprentice wrote:
throw a few levels into oracle and take the nature mystery though that you can get the bonded mount, which would be the tatzlwyrm.

Could work. Would at least give it some levels.

Or equally - the sylvan sorcerer bloodline. They get an animal companion.

Ipmeerk wrote:
This thread is mainly about having a tatzlwyrm pet and not about kingmaker. Why was it moved there?

Just a guess...buuuut: -

Anyone on the Kingmaker forums (especially GMs) will likely be better able
to answer your question & include within that answer the suitability for
use in Kingmaker...

Hah - after I'm not sure...but 2 - 3 years, we are just starting Book 3!
Needless to say, the characters are on SSLLOOOWWW progression, & I've
thrown one or two extra quests their way...

Orthos wrote:
Philip Knowsley wrote:
Inneliese wrote:
If not... just give Malgorzata more levels/cultists and run her as a higher CR event in between RRR and VV?
I did this - worked fine.
Likewise. I also never got around to doing Kundal - though I've been considering adding a "Big Bad Wolf" themed event to Chapter Six.

Heh - in my game they met & killed Kundal... But I am dealing with a bunch of

players who almost never consider where people come from, or the consequences
of their actions against 'normal folk'...
Kundal turned out to be the husband of one of the women in the Cult of G,
which is how she became embittered... :)
(That'll teach 'em...)

She also got away, as she wasn't in the underground store room the cult
was meeting in when the party attacked... Oh what fun I shall have. ;-p

Inneliese wrote:
If not... just give Malgorzata more levels/cultists and run her as a higher CR event in between RRR and VV?

I did this - worked fine.

I'll be placing a lot more than spriggans in VV - I want to amp up the fey
aspect of the AP, & VV will get a portion of that with Shadow Fey additions.
The big V is going to be a schock to my PCs who most likely will not be
expecting what they find, as the fey will only be taking advantage of the
situation, rather than causing it. (After all, nature abhors a vaccuum...)

I'd also say that 'ostensibly' Restov is still their overlord.
You could play nice & send an envoy from there to the effect that they've
heard things, & if the PCs don't get nice, & quick, then there will be
ramifications from their backers...

More than any sane GM could ask for... ;-p

Unfortunately it seems like somebody has ganked this Guide... :(

1 person marked this as a favorite.

Get Tales of the Old Margreve - THAT'LL put a bit of horror into your forest! ;-p

As for Fellnight Queen - I ran that between books 2 & 3...kind of as a lead
in to the PCs knowing more & caring more about Varnhold. The marriage was of
Varn to his young bride... (She was going to be stepmum to an NPC daughter of
Varn, who shall be married to one of the PCs soon.
BUT, my point here is that Rhoswen was the big N's daughter - if you want to
tie them together it's a great way to go. You can drop in all sorts of hints
about what's coming. I always referred to her as Princess Rhoswen for example -
after all, she can't be the queen if her mum is greater.

Cool - thanks! :)

I went with the kobold thing early on in Book 1...but with a completely
different tribe I inserted. This lead to the party making a deal with 1,
but fighting the other. (Plus it's always fun when you add PC classes to
normal monster this case barbarian.) ;)

You can also throw in choices which aren't necessarily 'hard', but which
do restrict your players other options.
e.g. instead of Restov just giving 50BP to set up the kingdom, I used the
suggestion of others on these boards to have different factions offering
different (sometimes negotiable) deals... Yes, Restov gave them 20BP, but
all the rest was earned elsewhere.
Now the players have some dwarves in charge of the only goldmine thus far,
Pharasman Clerics & Inquisitors checking in every so often to determine
what's happening around death/undeath in the kingdom, a High up Cleric of
Gorum who will block anything they try through that church (although they
don't know that yet), an NPC who has been treasurer, spymaster & is now
councillor - who is actually tied to Restov & is working for them & not
the PCs (behind the scenes)...& so-on.

Go for it. Let your imagination run wild.

Ok, just a couple of ideas off the top of my head.

RL prisons do not allow anyone except guards to carry weapons, so one might
assume that a fantasy jail would be the same... Probably adding in all
magical items into the pile on that one...sure - you can claim them back
when you leave, here's your ticket, have a nice day...

Also, you may want to think about anti-magic zone/s...after all, I'm sure
that some of their guests from time to time are 'users' who need to be
controlled somehow.

Hope they help, if I think of any more, I'll post later...

I agree with pennywit, & would add that, if it's the army doing the pillaging
& plundering...does it matter...?
You only really have to worry about what the PCs or main NPCs might lay their
greedy little fingers on...
In that case, all you'd need to do perhaps is work out what would normally
be available for purchase, plus what any captured folk have & bingo, there's
some treasure.

I agree with pennywit, & would that, if it's the army doing the pillaging
& pundering...does it matter...?
You only really have to worry about what the PCs or main NPCs might lay their
greedy little fingers on...
In that case, all you'd need to do perhaps is work out what would normally
be available for purchase, plus what any captured folk have & bingo, there's
some treasure.

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