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Morgen's page

Goblin Squad Member. Pathfinder Society Member. 2,833 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists. 6 Pathfinder Society characters.


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I thought there weren't any half-drow in Golarion?


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I'm stating my opinion on the subject of Full BAB tier classes hand. I consider the arbitrary ranking of particular classes is a meaningless and wasteful excise. It's a system for GM's who exist in a narrow sliver of people who care enough about the game to try to design encounters properly, but who don't take it a centimeter further into building for the other people they are playing with. It has a use somewhere certainly but I was agreeing with Cheapy that that it is out dated.

Anzyr: "Wizard" and "Fighter" can't do any of those things actually. They are exist only series of abilities on several sheets of paper. A character could do those things, based upon the arbitration of their GM and the situation that they and the entirety of the party are in. A combination of a lot of factors. To say one has an easier or harder time doing something based upon only part of those factors doesn't mean anything.

Athaleon: No sarcasm at all. Perhaps some disappointment in the apparent deterioration in quality of discussion on these boards in the past year or so but no sarcasm.

N. Jolly: While a valid argument I am more inclined to believe that a GM put some amount of thought into building encounters is going to look a lot more closely at what the specific characters themselves are inclined to do.
Tier based encounters might be good for say a living campaign or something you're trying to publish but for most GM's planning around a tier concept is going to lead to frustration when specific solutions aren't available even though tier X says it should be. Plus it doesn't address other major factor of party imbalance that is far more common to come up such as a imbalance of wealth distribution or having players with different levels of interest or rules knowledge. I don't believe when looking at all the factors it is a very useful tool in most GM toolboxes.

Rynjin: You even quoted me saying "in a game" and still went somewhere really uncalled for. I would honestly like an apology from you.


Indeed, quite outdated Cheapy.

The only reason one class is better then another in a game are because people decide to order them after all. Then to complain that one is on top and the other on the bottom. Obviously somethings are going to be on the bottom if you decide to place them in an order.

It's a relatively meaningless activity but far be it from me to stop others from having their fun. It has been getting a bit out of hand lately though. People play a character after all, not just a class.


There are certain types of Barbarians that actually can use Escape Artist so it isn't a complete waste, but it isn't for everyone.


Well the Cavalier gets a lot out of the Strength they'd get from Dragon Disciple. Order of the Lion would likely want a decent enough charisma.

The general idea is focusing on some amount of buff or utility so one doesn't need that high of a charisma score for the caster side of things.


Paladin 4/Bard 1 or Paladin 4/Sorcerer 1 into Dragon Disciple is pretty interesting. Gets a lot of use out of a decent charisma score.


Here are some of my suggestions before rolling into the world of house rules:

1. Use the the recommended 15 point buy instead of the high power 20 point buy. It is roughly what the game is intended to run at and it makes tanking stats sting a lot more.

2. Take a moment at some point during your campaign to look over character sheets again for math errors, inconsistency and the like. This refreshes your understanding of what they can do for encounter building and makes sure that people aren't forgetting new powers or bonuses.

C. Have one player who is utterly destroying every encounter on their own? TALK TO THEM ABOUT IT. The whole point of this game is to give you and your friends an opportunity to have fun together and that includes you as the GM. If your friend is doing something to make it nearly impossible to create fun encounters you need to talk to them about it. They will most likely be will reign things in on their own. A simple, "Hey Beth, ummm, your Monk is like crazy powerful and I can't really do challenge it without destroying everyone else..." can solve a lot of problems.

2. Anything-you-want magic item markets and infinite gold piece 24/7 money changers don't shouldn't in a properly balanced game. A vast amount of power differences come from either an imbalance or over-abundance of treasure. Far more damage is done here then with simple stat arrays.


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If this comic doesn't contain a 40 page fist fight in an alley I'll be extremely upset.


What's all this 4d6 wimp garbage?

Your not properly rolling up a character with dice unless it's 3d6 straight down the line!


The PC's with some amount of religious training or background should could know what Aroden taught about his homelands as well, though scholars are in agreement that his words on the subject are likely not completely representative. So anyone with access to a copy of "History and Future of Humanity" would at least have his take on life in Azlant. Clergy of Iomedae especially.


Torch Handling out of the Dungeoneer's Handbook player companion is a good 1st level feat for an alchemist. :D


Well as it is finally officially out!

Daniel Ingram: My Little Pony - Songs of Friendship and Magic.


Alright so having checked the GM screen it also doesn't mention anything about not being able to run or charge. So if a player asks at the table I'm at and I look at my conditions table it lacks that that left over 3.5 OGL stuff? The text before it is obviously different given a lack of acrobatics skill back in that game but that text afterwards is totally word for word the same.

I believe the "Blinded creatures can’t run or charge" line really needs to either be removed from the darkness section or added to the blinded condition. I don't mind it going one way or the other, I'd just like consistency.

What's the method of requesting something like that. Is this a proper time for an FAQ finally? Suppose I'll try that.


While reducing the creature's hit points certainly make it faster to slay (if your party can hurt it) the way the game works that doesn't actually make it any less effective at what it does.

It would really be dependent on your group.

Reduced hit points for a monster without a very high armor class versus a low level party that say, has a barbarian with a greatsword is could be a fair 1 CR reduction. Or against a higher level party that has a wizard that loves to use the Power Word spells, making the creature easier to affect could make it easy enough too.

Umbriere is really right though. Without a lot more information of the kind of monster/your party/etc just flat out reduction of hit points doesn't really warrant it.

The quick young template is a good method. Just tossing -2 to the dice roles and reducing 2 hit points a hit die certainly would be a fair -1 CR.


Well why in the heck is that particular rule about being blinded in the Darkness section and not listed in the Blinded condition? That is extremely important information.

I don't know about the rest of you but I'm certainly not going to be hunting around the environment section under Darkness when my character or my monsters get blinded.

Now I want to check other sources to see if they don't list that either.

Anyone have the condition card for Blinded to check if it lists the can't run or charge? I'll check my GM screen tonight and see if it lists or omits that as well.


Really? Because...

Pathfinder Rules Archive wrote:
Blinded: The creature cannot see. It takes a –2 penalty to Armor Class, loses its Dexterity bonus to AC (if any), and takes a –4 penalty on most Strength- and Dexterity-based skill checks and on opposed Perception skill checks. All checks and activities that rely on vision (such as reading and Perception checks based on sight) automatically fail. All opponents are considered to have total concealment (50% miss chance) against the blinded character. Blind creatures must make a DC 10 Acrobatics skill check to move faster than half speed. Creatures that fail this check fall prone. Characters who remain blinded for a long time grow accustomed to these drawbacks and can overcome some of them.

Doesn't mention anything about can't run or charge there and that should be roughly in the 400's for page number in a book?

Did that get errata'd out?


Yep, that is what the acrobatics check is for. Running is certainly faster then moving half speed.

Of course you'll have next to no idea where your going for the most part without some help and might crash into something.


Really? Most of the people I play with go the complete opposite and always take extra hit points when not taking a racial bonus.


They actually are a real weapon. The alchemist is even proficient with their use and there for they can take feats like weapon focus and so forth that have proficiency as a requirement.

There is no exception given to them in that regards only a simple clarification of what them being classified as weapon means.

Also what Bomb Discovery are you talking about? Where is it from? I'm not finding it in anything I've got access to here.


Steve: They are weapons in all regards, however as they use the Thrown Splash Weapon special attack rules they are unable to deal precision-based damage as that is part of the rules in that section. What exactly are you trying to do anyway?

Zwordsman: The rule is actually in the combat chapter of the main rulebook in the Splash Weapons section. "Splash weapons cannot deal precision-based damage (such as sneak attack)."

Archaeik: The text in Deadly Aim is what makes it so it can't be used to deal bonus damage using touch attacks as it specifically says it can't. It's a small but important difference. A high enough level multi-class fighter/alchemist is perfectly fine taking Weapon Specialization with bombs for bonus damage as an example of what that matters.



If the Bull Rush combat maneuver needs to explicitly state: "An enemy being moved by a bull rush does not provoke an attack of opportunity because of the movement unless you possess the Greater Bull Rush feat" that implies that there is no special clause that prevents attacks of opportunity from movement that is inflicted upon a combatant.

Effects that ignore general rules explicitly state that as part of their text. There is no exception in the rules in the Combat Chapter of the book that states anything close to "forced movement does not cause a creature to provoke attacks of opportunity."

So the movement caused from Force Punch follows all normal rules. A creature leaving a threatened square provokes. Swing away.

There is some room for discussion if the spell should have that kind of text amended to it to prevent that kind of situation. Though for a 3rd level spell that allows a fort save to negate the movement it isn't an extremely powerful effect.

I've been nailed by GM's for a while for being awesome blow'ed away and hit again on the trip out for long enough to know that.


Rune wrote:
I have yet to reveal them to my players; I was hoping the collective wisdom of the forums could show me the breaking points on these before I unleash them on my group.

I would expect that you see that as a very common approach on these forums but this unfortunately practice is really doing things backwards. Discussing the plans with people (no matter how well meaning) who really have no investment in your game and who might not even share your group's style of play before talking to the people who are actually going to use said rules isn't usually the best course of action.

I try to chime in like this every now and then to nudge people back into their circles before they try to alter everything and pull the rug out of their players creativity because the random noise on the forums decided that X didn't work or so forth. Everyone is happy to help of course but for the most part your going to get a lot of noise compared to what your going to get out of your group consensus.


What do your players think of the proposed rules changes?

Have they been asking for them?


Just got the book today at my FLGS and am pretty happy with it over-all.

The author of the trait Devoted Healer however might be shocked to know that:

PRD wrote:
Treating deadly wounds takes 1 hour of work.

Just something I noticed. Now we have a trait that requires you to throw someone into 20 hours of surgery to get use out of.


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Well there is a proper race for it yet...

But some kind of Awakened Pony iconic would be great! ;3


For a wizard to cast a cleric spell she needs to use limited wish at a minimum.

So for a wizard to cast Spiritual Weapon, it costs her 1500gp and a 7th level slot.

Mage's Sword reduces that cost by quite a bit by making it a 250gp foci and then improves it by using the stats most arcane spell casters tend to favour.


Ahh, well that clears it up a bit. Though now someone is running around using tricks actual Aspis agents can't use.


Wait so the PFS is actively encouraging people to play characters actively working against the goals of the Pathfinder Society?


Oh the glowers I would get as they pass their secret little notes that can't affect the campaign to the GM.

That consortium agent prestige class isn't even legal for play.


It has recently come to my attention that there are a number of people playing "spies" for the Aspis Consortium in the PFS.

I would like to tell those people to make sure that they don't actually hinder the groups ability to complete missions or to just stop such silly nonsense all together.


If it really is DM versus Players perhaps they should try running a game of Decent: Journeys in the Dark. It can be quite a lot more fun and is well suited to a more competitive play style.


Why waste any time mechanically if your just going to allow the character to have free or cheap access to things to get around being blind? That is utterly pointless to do.

That's not playing a blind swordsman.

Your better off just saying your character is a blind swordsman and then ignoring it like it will eventually be ignored if your going to do something like that.

If they want to be a blind swordsman then thy should have to properly play a blind character and it is up to them to figure out how to salvage that foolish concept.



Okay, your going to want to grab Divine Spell Power, Divine Metamagic for Persistent Spell and as many Nightsticks as you can get a hold of. You'll want to craft your Karma Beads and Pearls of Power when you can to make sure that all your buff spells are up all day at 4-8 CL higher then you are and you've got lots of magic available.

You'll probably want your 16 in your wisdom and a big more charisma for more turning attempts. Don't forget your skill synergy bonuses (you'll want the 5 ranks in Knowledge Religion one especially).

There are a few spells you'll want as you go up. there's one that lets people reroll failed saving throws, an instant healing one, delay death, etc. Comet Fall but that's like level 6-7 so a ways off.

Also make spell lists for situations so your more prepared if your say, On a Boat, In a City, Underground, etc. Don't rely on one static list. You've got thousands of spells available, try them out. Change things up all the time to find the spells you like.


+1 to Corlindale.

Only spells that take a standard action or longer are affected as per what the actual rules for spontaneous spell casters say.


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There are several i's in Pinkie Pie though! Or are we talking about a different kind of party?


It'd be per effect of the spell or ability too. So say Fireball is one roll for all affected targets where Scorching Ray or Magic Missile would be separate damage rolls for ray/missile that hits.


It gets worse once we throw in things like Dirty Tricks. Every fight turns into the PC's versus Heel Wrestlers.

Powder in the Eyes, Low Blows, the works. You'd spend most of the fights sickened, disarmed and blind. It'd be like every terrible encounter in the PFS but in every game.


The idea is slanted a lot more /against/ the PC's then for them just so you know.

The added protection you get form having at least some return damage boosting your CMD is important when you can get it. Monsters with half-decent strengths would be stealing every holy symbol, spell component pouch and spare weapon without any regards to almost anything else.

It would become very silly quite quickly.


Well there are a few things here.

Magic Items don't have a Challenge Rating just off the top of my head.

Effectively your reflavouring a scroll but giving it a broader ability to be used. Given that you want a specific location it might be better to base the item off of the spell Word of Recall as that more spell functions specifically back to a designated location and doesn't suffer

Now a scroll of a 6th level spell costs about 1,650 gp so that can be an effective minimum cost for it. If we look at the simple chart for a Single use, use-activated magic item it puts it at about 3,300 gold which would seem fair enough. If you wanted to cut the difference and price it somewhere between those two prices that would be fine either way.


Yes as I said you can see on the additional resources page that they are allowed.

Additional Resources Page wrote:

Pathfinder Player Companion: Adventurer's Armory

Only the 2nd printing of this book or the 1st printing augmented by the current errata (released 7/21/11) are legal for play in Pathfinder Society Organized Play.
Everything in this book is legal for play with the following exceptions: a pseudodragon is not legal for purchase unless you're a wizard with the Improved Familiar feat, elephants are never legal for play, and armored kilts are not legal.


I don't think you need to worry about something like that TRG, your players will play what they want with either method. :)


Clone is cheap enough to have cast without needing to find a specific spell caster on the spell casting chart as well.

You've got 2d4 months to die if you absolutely must read it as RAW as possible. It's duration is instantaneous.


Aye, you can buy lots and lots of different animals and creatures for use in the Pathfinder Society and are completely capable of handling them and training them! You should be able to see the allowable sources on the additional resources page. :)

You are banned completely from buying elephants and you can only buy a pseudo-dragon for purchase as an improved familiar or something? I'm not 100% on the rules for that as I'm not sure why you'd have to buy one.


Well the mod can just say that happens and it's just fine. It certainly isn't unreasonable to have that effect from water pressure and the PC's will likely have enough to worry about even with Freedom of Movement.

What exactly are you trying to do?


I'm totally lost by what exactly the story has with the topic of the thread?


Perception checks should only be used for special situations (girl has a note in her boot or something kind of like that). Really only if something was attempting to be hidden should that kind of check come up unless you like to keep your PC's guessing by calling for a few random checks during a session.

Mechanically yes, anyone with the proficiency to use said weapon should have at least some basic understanding of what it is. Masterwork items stand out from regular items. There isn't a reason to keep that kind of information secret from anyone.

Appraise can be useful for judging the value of art, gems and those types of things. For just standard equipment your average adventurer should be aware of the price of any standard equipment and what they can expect on average to get for selling it (half value).

Your free to alter that amount if it seems reasonable of course. Most towns probably don't need 50 goblin sized suits of leather armor or if they do they probably aren't paying full price.


I love how the theme of this thread is that somehow the player is doing something wrong as opposed to having encounters versus single spell casters not being a good encounter. 1 thing happens to the person and the fight is over. So this flavor was grappled. It could have been any number of things. 1 failed hold person, etc.

Fix the source of the problem (bad encounters, assuming you need a 'boss fight', etc) and you'll not have to worry about.


Just do what I'd do. Smile politely and tell them to open the book and show you were it says as such.


If your worried about a fluctuation of your player base and are a bit newer to the rules I'd recommend the Thorn Keep book. It develops a little town above a quite expansive dungeon and has plenty of room for you to flesh out things and gives your players plenty of room to do what they like as well.

It's actually kind of a midway point between a campaign and just a module so it works really well.

You should be able to get it at your FLGS or straight from Paizo.


I think you'll need to ask your players what kind of game they're looking to play before sweepingly trying to change things like that.

Your moving well outside of Pathfinder with that kind of stuff.

Also it raises the question, "why not just play Numenera?"

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