Ashiel wrote:I could have easily ended up in this situation on my current Hell's Rebels character if I wasn't watching out for it. I'm playing a Negotiator Bard with dumped str and a low dex, and my initial build had almost no combat utility at all because I forgot about the +5 save bonus for Charm Person in most combat situations. I swapped Charm Person over for Sleep late in character construction precisely so I could do something other than spam Daze and intimidate demoralize attempts in combat, but I could see ending up with a character with almost no combat skills.
I'll admit I don't really understand this. The majority of Pathfinder classes (including all the well designed ones) are more or less decent at combat with some really basic choices, so when someone says "My character was useless in combat but were for talking the party out of trouble", I get confused.
EDIT: To elaborate, most classes come pre-built with lots of useful things in combat. Most class features revolve around making them better in combat. So unless something really weird is going on, or you're dealing with a bad class like Fighter, then you're probably going to end up at least decent in combat even if you're speccing something noncombat related.
I'd blame Paizo for making bad archetypes on this one. The negotiator is pretty trappy. You trade away all your good / party support abilities to be a worse bard that doesn't really do anything worthwhile.EDIT: Their geas thing is kinda cool, other than the whole HD limit thing.