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Ashiel wrote:

Let's look at this how it actually functions. You are still recognizable as the same person, and the changes aren't drastic enough to provide any benefit on Disguise checks. Let's think about that for a moment.

Again, the elixir doesn't change your features enough for this guy to not be recognizable as the same person. It's not even "looks similar", it's recognizable and grants no benefits as a disguise. Imagine for a moment that changing into the completely different sex doesn't even make it harder to notice you're the same person.

It's not a matter of "You really look like this guy I know" it's literally "Hey you are that guy I know...except now you have a uterus?". :P

Again "recognizable" means "can be recognized", not "it's always easily recognized by anyone and everyone".

And well... It doesn't give any bonus to disguise as the old sex either, so it doesn't make you look particularly masculine or feminine either way, no matter which sex you belonged to and to which one you transformed.

Of course, all this argumentation is mostly me reaching so that the item actually works as a fantasy magic elixir should, rather than as a victim of overly paranoid designers who are completely afraid of little innocuous things breaking their (already quite broken) game while completely missing or wilfully ignoring the stuff that actually does affect game balance. :P


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Ashiel wrote:

Well the spell says:

Quote:
Damage taken by the new form can result in the injury or death of the polymorphed creature. In general, damage occurs when the new form is changed through physical force.

So I would assume if you turned someone into a rock and smashed it with a hammer, dispelling it wouldn't be pretty. In the same way if you sliced the head off someone and dispelled it, likely bad for their health.

That's what I get out of it anyway.

Wouldn't killing someone (i.e.: turning them into a corpse) be considered damage, in which case the whole things doesn't work anyway?

Isn't it easier to kill someone, Sculpt Corpse them and then resurrect?


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Makes sense. That said polymorph any object is a very confusing mess right now in pathfinder.

Though that raises the obvious question. What if I polymorph them into a giant block of stone then carve a stunning statues out of them. Will they look like the statue or will they look like something out of American Horror?

If we body sculpt their corpse form, will their body still work when they revert? It's a bit... Grey area.

Also cus I just noticed now, Klara, the reason why the worship of Nocticula uprising surprised me is Calistria exists and fills the same niche so there isn't much reason to do so if all one cares about is sex drugs and rock and roll. Urgathoa is there for the same reason if you want an evil version. This implies a different reason for the worship.

Also that's a bit of a thing that irks me. There is... Way too many deities. Too many. Now having a diety for everything, fine. Having 5+ dieties for hedonism? Starts to get iffy because it takes away from a reason people would worship the evil ones except for those who are real hardcore into evilness.

I mean Urgathoa and Calistria have just enough divide that I can accept it (particularily since Calistria feels like a kinda pointless diety anyways. Pun unintended.). But then you have Nocticula for the demons, Arshea for the angels, several of the various CG ones, one of the devil archdukes, and probably a few others if I hunt it out. And then honor, oh boy honor...

Making evil dieties work as a major force requires them to have a realistic reason to be worshipped. But when good aligned dieties do what they do but good aligned, it just takes away why worship them. Though then again, I guess that could make some sense in the that's how you beat evil dieties. Invalidate them. Course why they would LET you do that...


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G+@ d&+nit... I had this nice post with examples of the Elixir in a, somewhat, real life sense. Also went into the "multiple deities of the same type" subject. But it got deleted because, f**& you touch screen and my fat fingers!

I'll type it up again later, but, for now, I have yardwork to do in preparation for winter.


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Tels wrote:

G!# d@+nit... I had this nice post with examples of the Elixir in a, somewhat, real life sense. Also went into the "multiple deities of the same type" subject. But it got deleted because, f+%# you touch screen and my fat fingers!

I'll type it up again later, but, for now, I have yardwork to do in preparation for winter.

Yeah you live in Alaska don't you? O.o

Winter is coming... o_o


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Ashiel wrote:
Tels wrote:

G!# d@+nit... I had this nice post with examples of the Elixir in a, somewhat, real life sense. Also went into the "multiple deities of the same type" subject. But it got deleted because, f+%# you touch screen and my fat fingers!

I'll type it up again later, but, for now, I have yardwork to do in preparation for winter.

Yeah you live in Alaska don't you? O.o

Winter is coming... o_o

And that's why every year, around December, I conveniently get homesick and decide it's time to visit family members who live in tropical areas. :P

Saudades. XD


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Valar Morghulis.


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On the topic of the Elixir...

Richard Magarey before elixir.
Richard Magarey after elixir.
And again...
This time, with music!

This is, essentially, what the elixir would do. Richard Magarey, better known for his crossdressing pro-wrestling persona of Lady Beard, is obviously recognizeable whether in "normal" clothing or in female clothing, just as he would be if he drank the elixir.

On the subject of multiple deities...

My issue with multiple deities is that such a thing can only happen with different cultures.

For example, in the Elder Scrolls universe, the different factions and races may worship gods under different names, but each one is still the same God. Lorkhan, for instance, is a God seen as a great hero of Men, but he is reviled by the elves for his part in the creation of Nirn. Why? Because Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into giving up part of their divine essence to create the planet Nirn. Some managed to stop the flow and retain most (but not all) of their divine spark and are worshiped as gods. Others were unable to do so, and began living on Nirn. These diminshed Aedra began procreating, and from them came the ancestors, the Ehlnofey, who would eventually separate and evolve into the Men and the Mer.

The races of Men hail Lorkhan as a champion of Men, for they would not exist without him. While the races of Mer, curse Lorkhan for stealing their divinity and rendering them mortal.

The different races and cultures of Elder Scrolls may use different names, and have different viewpoints, but they all worship the same gods. Akatosh, Auri-El, Alkosh are different names for the same being; the first being to form from the beginning of the universe.

In the Elder Scrolls, there are only, really, a handful of Gods. Different cultures may view them differently, and have different names, but they're all the same.

But in most campaign settings, you have multiple different gods of the same aspect, like we do in our world. For example, a "sun god" in the form of Helios (Roman), Sol (Norse), Ra (Egyptian), and Kinich Ahau (Mayan). Each god is different from the other as they came from different cultures.

However, unlike in the real world, fantasy campaign settings try and make a "universal" list of Gods. In Golarion, for example, they have the core 20 deities, and these deities pretty much make up the religion for nearly every culture.

This breaks my immersion, and is the root of my problem with it. Calistria, Lamashtu, Arshea, and Nocticula are all, on some level a "god of sex". It would stand to reason that, evil, good, neutral, whatever, different cultures would worship different gods as their "god of sex". But this isn't what happens. You go to a temple of the "god of sex" and it is a temple of Calistria pretty much every single time.

The closest this ever came to happening in our world, is when Rome conquered the Mediterranean and much of the surrounding lands. When they conquered a region or a people, they would make worship of the Roman gods mandatory, but they continued to allow the locals to keep worshiping their own gods.

Taldor, and Cheliax both conquered much of the Inner Sea, this is true, but at the same time, there are many places they never went. So why are the same 20 deities found every where you go, despite there being many different gods for any given aspect?

Even weirder, is how come there is no influence of previous empires? I mean, Thassilon conquered much of Avistan and had it's own religion of it's own making. It ruled for a very long time. Sure, the empire fell 10,000 years ago, but the religious practices of the Thassilonian empire should still be present in the "modern" day descendants of those who lived in the empire.

But there isn't one. There is only the core 20. Worship of any god not in the core 20 is some minor thing, part of some cult, or something. But that's not how it should be.

It makes sense for Elder Scrolls, because there's a finite number of gods to worship. The "sun god" of the Altmer would be the same "sun god" of the Redguard, even if they are depicted and worshiped differently. On Golarion, however, there are 15 different deities who grant the Sun domain, and therefore, 15 different deities who can be seen as a "sun god". Unlike in Elder Scrolls, each one is a distinctively different god, some are Good, some are Evil, some Chaotic, some Lawful.

So for me, it makes sense for there to be multiple gods of the same aspect, as long as there are different cultures to back up the worship of these different gods. But if you don't, then it makes more sense for there to be a limited number of gods, and, instead, different interpretations of the same gods by all the different religions.


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So, Ash... When are you starting an online Skype/Roll20 campaign and inviting me to play? It's been around two or three years since you promised! XD

Shadow Lodge

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Oh, is that a thing?


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I was just reading through the comments of my old account and found Ashiel's off-hand comment about starting an online campaign...

Mostly I just want to play yet another online campaign. Preferably one with scheduled real-time sessions, rather than PbP. :P

You could GM one too, TOZ. ;)

Shadow Lodge

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I'm not saying no...


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Tels wrote:

On the topic of the Elixir...

Richard Magarey before elixir.
Richard Magarey after elixir.
And again...
This time, with music!

This is, essentially, what the elixir would do. Richard Magarey, better known for his crossdressing pro-wrestling persona of Lady Beard, is obviously recognizeable whether in "normal" clothing or in female clothing, just as he would be if he drank the elixir.

On the subject of multiple deities...

My issue with multiple deities is that such a thing can only happen with different cultures.

For example, in the Elder Scrolls universe, the different factions and races may worship gods under different names, but each one is still the same God. Lorkhan, for instance, is a God seen as a great hero of Men, but he is reviled by the elves for his part in the creation of Nirn. Why? Because Lorkhan tricked the Aedra into giving up part of their divine essence to create the planet Nirn. Some managed to stop the flow and retain most (but not all) of their divine spark and are worshiped as gods. Others were unable to do so, and began living on Nirn. These diminshed Aedra began procreating, and from them came the ancestors, the Ehlnofey, who would eventually separate and evolve into the Men and the Mer.

The races of Men hail Lorkhan as a champion of Men, for they would not exist without him. While the races of Mer, curse Lorkhan for stealing their divinity and rendering them mortal.

The different races and cultures of Elder Scrolls may use different names, and have different viewpoints, but they all worship the same gods. Akatosh, Auri-El, Alkosh are different names for the same being; the...

That's another reason I like Mythic. You could get very natural local gods that way, by just making them from powerful members of the community. And it means that PCs could actually kill a god without DM fiat and take their place.


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Lemmy Z wrote:
So, Ash... When are you starting an online Skype/Roll20 campaign and inviting me to play? It's been around two or three years since you promised! XD

Probably as soon as I get d20 legends into a place where I feel an alpha playtest would be viable. ^.^"

That said it would probably use Discord/MapTools instead of Skype/Roll20. :P


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Tels wrote:

On the topic of the Elixir...

Richard Magarey before elixir.
Richard Magarey after elixir.
And again...
This time, with music!

This is, essentially, what the elixir would do. Richard Magarey, better known for his crossdressing pro-wrestling persona of Lady Beard, is obviously recognizeable whether in "normal" clothing or in female clothing, just as he would be if he drank the elixir.

LMAO! Yeah, this is kinda what I was sayin' with the barbarian pictures. :P


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Ashiel wrote:
Lemmy Z wrote:
So, Ash... When are you starting an online Skype/Roll20 campaign and inviting me to play? It's been around two or three years since you promised! XD

Probably as soon as I get d20 legends into a place where I feel an alpha playtest would be viable. ^.^"

That said it would probably use Discord/MapTools instead of Skype/Roll20. :P

I keep saying it. Three mile waiting list. Celebrity Ashiel, haunted forever. Have to hire an internet bouncer :p.


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She could let some of us play the villains and let the problem sort itself out.


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Icehawk wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Lemmy Z wrote:
So, Ash... When are you starting an online Skype/Roll20 campaign and inviting me to play? It's been around two or three years since you promised! XD

Probably as soon as I get d20 legends into a place where I feel an alpha playtest would be viable. ^.^"

That said it would probably use Discord/MapTools instead of Skype/Roll20. :P

I keep saying it. Three mile waiting list. Celebrity Ashiel, haunted forever. Have to hire an internet bouncer :p.

It feels really weird actually, but mostly in a good way I'd say. It feels very complimentary and it's something I appreciate and am quite grateful for, and feel very honored to have people expect so much. It's a great ego boost, and it's a driving force behind my insistence to try to maintain a certain level of quality and effort put into things that I do (because not disappointing those who are supportive is a really big deal to me).

It can, of course, be a bit scary too. The concern that I might disappoint someone, or have a dull day as a GM (maybe a session just falls a bit flat or has a lull that isn't very exciting, etc), does float a bit over my head. It's one of the reasons I try to avoid letting the attention go to my head, 'cause as my head grows so too does that looming cloud of uncertainty, y'know?

Overall though, I like it, because I feel and hope that I'm providing something for others. That something might vary from person to person. Perhaps it is entertainment, perhaps a bit of shared experience, perhaps it's an insight, or it's a product (such as my revised marilith & balor, or the revised simulacrum, or a guidebook) that someone finds useful or enjoys having, or maybe even just the eyes and ears of a conversationalist who won't judge you for asking questions or talking about things - frankly - that are touchy subjects in the rather disgraceful social jungle we find ourselves in these days.

Also, much <3 for my cultists. I literally cannot seem to avoid smiling and laughing whenever I see those aliases pop up. God as my witness, I will get some t-shirts made as soon as I can come up with some sort of fun logo to put on them. XD


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I wonder what is the "fair" villain-to-hero ratio. 1 to 4? 1 to 2? Probably closer to 1 to 8 if villain is a goblin with a clan and heroes have to pass through it's lair.


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Klara Meison wrote:
I wonder what is the "fair" villain-to-hero ratio. 1 to 4? 1 to 2? Probably closer to 1 to 8 if villain is a goblin with a clan and heroes have to pass through it's lair.

Someone could make a game of it like that. Create encounters and let other players play things in those encounters (such as controlling a hobgoblin sorcerer and her posse of 10 goblin lackies), which would mean each of the "villain" side of the screen would be like a bunch of mini-GMs.

I think there are a few PC games like that (kind of like Left 4 Dead where a set of players join the horde of zombies and mess with players, etc). It could be really amusing I bet.


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Question to people other than Ashiel: how have you found this thread for the first time?


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Klara Meison wrote:
Question to people other than Ashiel: how have you found this thread for the first time?

The Messageboards box to the side of the page that displays the threads with the most recent posts.

I find a lot of interesting threads that way.


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Since almost 100% of the posts on page 69 and many from page 70 were removed because "heated conversation" (read: tantrums), I will be re-writing everything that I had to contribute to that conversation between now and tomorrow and re-posting.

In the meantime, I will be cooling down. I told Aratrok I won't cry about this. It's just a thing. It can be rebuilt. I just need a short time to collect my thoughts.


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***checks last two pages***

...

What happened.


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Prithee checketh thy private messages, thy highness lord Ashiel! Most wondrous things await thy there!


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Ashiel wrote:

Since almost 100% of the posts on page 69 and many from page 70 were removed because "heated conversation" (read: tantrums), I will be re-writing everything that I had to contribute to that conversation between now and tomorrow and re-posting.

In the meantime, I will be cooling down. I told Aratrok I won't cry about this. It's just a thing. It can be rebuilt. I just need a short time to collect my thoughts.

Tsc... Nothing there was against the rules... But because a single person thinks statistics are offensive, posts are erased without explanation...

*sigh*


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I believe that if people take issue with moderation practices we are supposed to use the website feedback?

Bonus points if you can get someone to explain what invisible rule was broken. I think it's the "transgendered people who don't have a certain opinion aren't allowed to have one at all" but that just might be my anger clouding my judgment.


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This is why SJW's have a bad rep.


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Yes... We can send a email to the mythical website feedback... So that the same people who deleted the posts without explanation will revise your complaint, while no one else ever hears of it.

Truly a system that inspires confidence and trust...


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Have you ever read George Orwell?


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I liked 1984 and Animal Farm as a kid. I don't think I've read any of his work as an adult, though.


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Klara Meison wrote:
Have you ever read George Orwell?

Not personally but I'm aware of his works. :)


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You should check it out. Amazing stuff.


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Klara Meison wrote:
You should check it out. Amazing stuff.

Finding time for reading is a daunting prospect but I'll see about ordering them.1


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Klara Meison wrote:
You should check it out. Amazing stuff.

I second this.

Orwell put the "Orwellian" in Orwellian Dystopia. 1984 and Animal Farm are classics. Animal Farm in particular is up there as one of my favorite books.

While we are on the subject of pivotal books, has anyone here read Spycatcher?

Shadow Lodge

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Well that went about as well as I expected.


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TOZ wrote:
Well that went about as well as I expected.

I sent a letter to someone who may be able to help. He is my only hope, like some sort of transgendered nerd princess Leia. :|


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Who is the darth vader in your analogy?


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Klara Meison wrote:
Who is the darth vader in your analogy?

It is...

This post was removed because.


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Ashiel wrote:
Icehawk wrote:
Ashiel wrote:
Lemmy Z wrote:
So, Ash... When are you starting an online Skype/Roll20 campaign and inviting me to play? It's been around two or three years since you promised! XD

Probably as soon as I get d20 legends into a place where I feel an alpha playtest would be viable. ^.^"

That said it would probably use Discord/MapTools instead of Skype/Roll20. :P

I keep saying it. Three mile waiting list. Celebrity Ashiel, haunted forever. Have to hire an internet bouncer :p.

It feels really weird actually, but mostly in a good way I'd say. It feels very complimentary and it's something I appreciate and am quite grateful for, and feel very honored to have people expect so much. It's a great ego boost, and it's a driving force behind my insistence to try to maintain a certain level of quality and effort put into things that I do (because not disappointing those who are supportive is a really big deal to me).

It can, of course, be a bit scary too. The concern that I might disappoint someone, or have a dull day as a GM (maybe a session just falls a bit flat or has a lull that isn't very exciting, etc), does float a bit over my head. It's one of the reasons I try to avoid letting the attention go to my head, 'cause as my head grows so too does that looming cloud of uncertainty, y'know?

Overall though, I like it, because I feel and hope that I'm providing something for others. That something might vary from person to person. Perhaps it is entertainment, perhaps a bit of shared experience, perhaps it's an insight, or it's a product (such as my revised marilith & balor, or the revised simulacrum, or a guidebook) that someone finds useful or enjoys having, or maybe even just the eyes and ears of a conversationalist who won't judge you for asking questions or talking about things - frankly - that are touchy subjects in the rather disgraceful social jungle we find ourselves in these days.

Also, much <3 for my cultists. I literally cannot seem to avoid smiling and...

For the record, long as you stick to the things you say you're about, I doubt many people will be that disappointed. Like all my games mostly consist of rushing from one plot point to another because if we take too long someone will b@&&!, but if we don't spend time roleplaying someone will b+$#+ and someone will b@%!$ about a railroad and so on.

I played several APs and it feels like a lot could be solved by slowing down and taking ones time with it yet we can't do that. So it's an endless cycle of complaints.

So, you know, I have a very very high tolerance and severely doubt I'll be disappointed :p.

Also cus it was asked, I... don't remember how I found this thread. I'm thinking I found it via Ashiel's profile. I am master stalker. I think I reach this thread via his profile more than any other way.


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That GitP idea is sounding better and better.


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Kryzbyn wrote:
That GitP idea is sounding better and better.

I just so happened to read through their rules, and they don't allow discussion related to some topics that pop up in this thread from time to time(mainly Real-world politics (including political reactions to gaming) and Explicit sexuality). Don't know how much they police that place though.

Grand Lodge

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Pathfinder Adventure, Rulebook Subscriber; Pathfinder Battles Case Subscriber

I made a joke about monks and got a warning. Never been back.


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Oh yeah...


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Clearly we need our own site, with blackjack, and hookers.

Maybe a zeta board. Then we got our own rules :p.


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My local gaming buddies and I have our own forum, but we use it to keep track of games we are running or will run. We don't talk about other stuff on there.

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