|Paizo Pathfinder® Paizo Games|
|About Paizo Messageboards News Paizo Blog Help/FAQ|
Advanced Players Guide, Advanced Class Guide, Ultimate Magic, Ultimate Campaign, Bestiary 1-3, Book of the Damned 1 & 3, Technology Guide... That's about it for me. Oh. Second Darkness 1-6, Shattered Star 3-6, Reign of Winter 1-6, and anything that's out from Iron Gods. I'd also kill for an Ultimate Psionics. Hard (or soft) backs for all of 'em. Fiance has trouble with staring at computer screens to use the SRD/PRD/Archives/PDFs.
I kinda started backwards, with Ultimate Combat, Advanced Race Guide, and Bestiary 4 when they came out, plus some stuff here and there, since our group had all the rest (+ the interwebz). Now that we're groupless, we need to go back and get the old stuff, lol. Just 2 days ago she got the Core from her godparents ^_^, so, we're happy with that for now. Word on the grape vine is her cousin's going to get her the ACG or Ultimate Magic >_>... *Fingers crossed!*
Edit: Ack! Forgot! Need Ultimate Equipment as well. Thought I was forgetting an Ultimate somewhere....
While I expect this thread to devolve into another round of bullheadedness, I'd like to point out an example from Ultimate Campaign.
Specifically, the background generator. It's optional, yes, but Ultimate Campaign is part of the Pathfinder Role Playing Game line of hardbacks, and thus, are still considered rules.
Those give some pretty good examples of what you gotta do to slide over to the evil or chaotic side. And it takes an EXTREME amount to wind up Chaotic OR Evil.
Plus, I'd also like to point out that, yes.. According to this IN RULES... Motivation plays a factor. What you actually do plays a factor... HOW you go about it does not.
What's the most basic motivation for an adventurer?
Beer, Babes, and butt-loads of treasure.
That's my personal experience. Add in the fact that most adenturing parties will use very questionable means to obtain them?
Yeah, I'd rather be a card-carrying villain than a murderhobo. I've got standards after all.
What I play generally depends on my mood. I've got so many character concepts, from fluff inspired mechanic-finagled "suboptimal" sorcerers, to mechanic inspired hyper-fluff-detailed "suboptimal" barbarians.
Actually, come to think of it, I seem to have a knack and thrill for taking supposedly sub-par options and competing fairly well with them. Like my Elven Barbarian Archer (not *GASP!* Urban!), or the Nanite-bloodline Android. Elven cross-blood Envenomed/Pestilence anyone?
Pretty much all inspired by either one mechanic that piqued my interest (Ultra-Nanite Magic!), or an amusing thought of "this would be fun" (Too weak to use his father's bow normally, but get him pissed and he'll snipe a dragon out of the sky).
I've had some overlap, mainly because I actually build, or at least conceptualize, characters in my off-time. I think I've got somewhere above 175 character outlines at various stages of completion sitting on my hard drive. From the halfling sling-sniper (sneak attack at 500ft @954es!), to The Shadow Man (A tip of the hat form Dr. Facilier!), to the most unlikely Iomedean Paladin EVER! (Empyrial Shining Knight Paladin/(Iomedae's crusader prestige class)/Chevalier).
Chris Lambertz wrote:
From this point on, let's drop whatever arguments or insults were thrown around and go back to discussing how/whether alignment is used in your own game. We welcome all kinds of gamers here, so rather than turning the rest of this discussion into a debate about who is has wronged who, let's focus on that please. Thank you.
I'd like to bring this up one more time to make sure people have SEEN it, because the last few posts after Chris are dredging up the debate again. Stop it.
As to the topic at hand.
When I DO use alignment, I use a grid to keep track of people's alignments. 9 squares, 10 lines in each square horizontally and vertically. I actually use a big whiteboard for it, and put magnets with character names on them at the points where people are (one grid per prson). Leave it right up on the board behind me, so people know where exactly they stand.
In any case, I'm still pretty liberal. Pragmatism is neutrality in my game. Charity and selflessness are good acts. Following or upholding the law is Lawful. Breaking laws or codes is Chaotic. Slaughtering innocents or destroying things for no reason, evil.
And, really, it takes some really big $#!& to make someone change alignment. For me, alignments are ideas, concepts. Outsiders are formed of said concepts, and thus are core to their being. For mortals, undead, and spirits, they're guidelines, mere indicators of the way your character acts.
Because, for me, personality trumps alignment. Your personality, experiences, and beliefs, trump the examples of the Alignment system in the core rule book. Because, from what I recall, they even admit that those are what they are, examples, not hard coded straight-jacket rules.
I should also note that when I DO use alignment, I strip it from many monsters and all spells save the 'Protection From' and Summoning. Sorry, but undead were once mortal, therefore, rules for mortal apply to them as well.
Edit: I should also mention I absolutely loathe the ALWAYS CHAOTIC EVIL!!!!11ONE!! BS I see floating around. Like I said before, I am a vile, horrible human being IRL (general apathy towards fellow man, and I really don't give a @#$% about much of anything). I am STILL capable of good acts, like dropping a few dollars in some homeless guy's cup outside Del Taco the other day.
It doesn't matter now. I'm just sad that everyone else is going to be punished because of it.
Welcome to Paizo and the General Discussion boards. And the reason I took a break from this board for a while.
At this point, I'm going to have to intercede and say what amounts to "can everyone shut up, agree to disagree, and move the [REDACTED!] on!?"
Yes, there's venom there. Venom because I hate when innocents are caught in the crossfire and an otherwise alright discussion is all but nuked due to unnecessarily high rocking ponies and closed minds... And I'm one of the most downright evil bastards I know. THAT is how bad this thread has gotten...
@Arcanic Drake: Give me a moment to raid my library's catalog. Too poor to buy many books of my own, so I raid my library and 'renew' the books for as long as I can, lol.
@MagusJanus: Alchemy Puffers were actually what split off from the Alchemical Mysticism and more or less generated the field of Chemistry as we know it. So, Kudos to them!
Edit: Okay, for Arcanic Drake... Books that I used were:
Alchemy: The Great Secret by Andrea Aromatico - Don't remember much about this one, got to it later on and it repeated quite of bit of the info I'd read elsewhere.
The book of alchemy : learn the secrets of the alchemists to transform mind, body, and soul by Melville Francis - Gets into the full history, all the way back to the Egyptian god Thoth being the originator of Alchemy, and explained the concepts behind Alchemy's link to Astronomy (and thus Tarot).
Everything else was kind of... Repeating the same info, so admittedly I kind of skimmed until something different popped up. Didn't happen often.
Edit #2: Ninja'd by thejeff. More or less.
So wait, how many people here actually like magitek / blending magic and science together?
Pretty much my standard setting. While I enjoy White Chocolate Fantasy and Dark Chocolate Scifi a LOT, I prefer my Milk Chocolate Magitek.
You can probably blame Star Wars and Final Fantasy for that.
So, I'm looking to make a character for a home game that seems to have just the right item at just the right time. Naturally, this would require pre-quest research and prep (in-game, not meta-game).
To this end, I'm looking for character options that let me reach into my pocket and grab whatever. The ones I know of so far are:
Deep Pockets - Pathfinder Chronicler PrC - 100gp per class level, including potions and scrolls
To assist in this concept, and just because I like the idea of carrying a dragon carcass back to town with my bare hands, I'm also looking for ways to pump carrying capacity.
Deep Pockets - Pathfinder Chronicler PrC - Strength counts as 4 higher for light load.
Odds are it's going to be a human with racial heritage halfling, as a Filcher rogue (GM lets 'heritage' apply to just about everything). I haven't stated anything out yet, just trying to weigh my options. Possibly a smuggler rogue would more fit the theme.
Anyone mind letting me know if I missed anything? Or if there're any wonky problems with rules I might encounter?
So... I think my concern got a little lost, recent as it was. Very active thread and don't have the time to search through 2k+ posts.
Are my kineticists going to be forced into kinetic blade and iteratives to contribute damage to the party? Much as I like the idea, some of the concepts I've got in mind are more artillery than melee. Which, from what I've managed to grasp earlier in the thread, is a sub-par option? Particularly with non-touch blasts?
Okay, I see what you're going on about. It's not so much the Undercasting mechanics, as the fact that the psychic spells as written don't have scaling effects with level and you've gotta use the higher version.
Valid concern. Still, a problem with the spells, not the mechanic itself.
Edit: Besides, technically, there's no REAL mechanical difference between Undercasting and Heightening the spell as you want it to be. You're still using higher level effects in higher level slots with one, and lower level effects in lower level slots with the other.
Only problem is the "using a higher spell known"... Which, really, is still trumped by the fact that "using a lower spell known" still eats up a slot you'd use to cast said higher spell.
Exactly. I'd kill to see spells with Lesser-Standard-Greater work like this as well. A mechanic I'm going to have to yoink and house-rule so that it works like that now at my games. Already been doing it with Summon Monster lists (it makes no sense to me that you can summon 1d4+1 succubi for a party, but not a fiendish crab to retrieve your keys from the lake), and it's worked out pretty well.
Besides... "Overcasting" to me sounds more like casting past your abilities. Holding back the power is a lot easier and thematic to spells, IMO, than something that sounds like you're casting a 9th level spell when you should be limited to 5th.
Then again, I may be biased in that regard since that's a mechanic I've been tooling around with for the past couple years.
So what I'm seeing is a lot of impatience, and lack of attention span.
(old man voice) Damn you TV! Whatever happened to pushing a hoop down a dirt road with a stick! (/old man voice)
And publishing Occult Adventures is not going to ruin your game. Just don't use the material. Rule 0 and all that jazz.
Edit: Oh, and add me into the pile of folks that enjoy a breadth of options. I'm so damn bored of the basic "Wizard-Fighter-Cleric-Thief" party make up that I literally fall asleep at those tables. Honestly, I can barely play any class in the CRB anymore without getting horrifically bored... But then, after 20 years of gaming, I'm not surprised I'm bored with the basics.
Um... The Psychic can swap out spells at certain levels. 4th and every even numbered level thereafter.
Just swap out Id insinuation 1 for some other spell of the same level, pick up Id Insinuation 2, and boom! You basically now have 1 extra spell known.
How is that a bad thing?
Edit: Though, to be fair, I have noticed that a lot of people overlook the "swap out" parts of a class. Fighter feats, spells known, (I have a vague sense of some other thing I can't recall)... I suppose it's because most are happy with their choices via theorycraft.
Edit 2: okay, I'm silly. Forgot that via Undercasting rules themselves, if you learn a higher level version, you swap out the lower versions of the spell for other spells of their level anyways. Was talking about doing it off the Psychic itself.
Seriously though. Even skipping Ego Whip 1, 2, and 3, picking up 4 gives you, in effect, 4 spells known. Someone tell me how that is NOT a good thing?
(I don't know whether they will - or even should - get the same Summon Monster/Nature's Ally as other casters, but they should get something)
Personally, I think they should get a summon list that includes the space-creatures (Formians, Oma, etc) and such from Beastiary 4. Aberrations and undead, as well. Lots of them.
Disagree. Time for something new, IMO. We've got white chocolate divine and dark chocolate arcane. Gimme my milk chocolate middle ground darn it!
captain yesterday wrote:
Bonus points if she's a summoner with her Eidolon sized Huge and made of marshmallow.
This one can be slotted into anything that requires the party to invade a crypt. Specifically, when they don't know which crypt and need to invade all of them.
One crypt leads them down into a waterway, quite possibly the sewers, with bones and skeletons littering the walls. They hear faint bard singing with a (galt/'not france') accent. On the next round, they're ambushed by thugs in skeleton suit disguises that were blending in.
Tbey're also kind of cute, in a weird, aberrant horror from beyond the stars kind of way.
For the thread: An Elohim looking around the dungeon and commenting to himself. "I've done good. Who'd have thought it'd grow from a single floor to an entire planet?..." Before disappearing.
The Indescribable wrote:
Minus the stealing of faces, this is so yoinked. I'll be doing it as a catfolk... Because as cat-lovers know... You don't adopt the cat. The cat adopts you.
Deirdre "Dee" Sarini wrote:
I think you may have won the thread in terms of sheer horror.
Don't forget the Ghoran Bard that goes by the name "Gouda Thimes". Alternate build: Alchemist. Alternate build 2: Ghoran Cleric named "Gouda Gourd"
Auren "Rin" Cloudstrider wrote:
You know, you two would get along with me and my fiance. Too bad you don't live in northern California :(. We'd love to game with you two.
Tsundere = A character that acts cold and distant to start with, but is sweet and caring after they 'warm up' to the person. Thanks to TOZ, I believe, I can never un-know that dwarves are tsundere... No amount of brain scrubbing!
Yandere = A character that is sweet and compassionate with their love-interest one moment, then violent and (varying levels of) crazed the next. A good example would be that psycho girlfriend that seemed super sweet with that home-baked cake, then starts destroying your apartment with a baseball bat.
I freaking love doing this to players.
Of course, once they get complacent with the empty rooms... I'll shake it up and have some nightmare creature from beyond the stars make an appearance.
Or sometimes I'll just tell them to roll perception checks while I act like I'm skimming over my notes, looking for the DC. I'll roll behind the screen while they're walking into the room.
It's particularly fun to make the doors trapped. Or have some random trap smack dab in the middle of the room for no reason. Literally, let the rogue find it, and let it have a totally crappy DC that they can fail like, only on a 1 or something.
Go grab a drink and a slice of pizza while they're trying to figure out the significance of the room.
I'll have to look at it later. Lack of head-phones, and my fiance's asleep atm and I'd rather not wake her up (very, very bad idea). I CAN comment on IHIYC though.
- In keeping with the guy's thesis that the problem is caused by a pitfall in established thinking, I'll suggest what I see as a big problem: Inappropriately-allotted faith in a longstanding Western belief that reductionism leads to ultimate truth. There's a good solid place for reductionism (I utilize it in my reasoning often enough), but it certainly isn't in fantasy gaming, which wouldn't exist at all were it not for expansivist thinking (it started with games as simple as chess, then got wildly more baroque from there). Another serious problem I see is the ascent of aggressive anti-intellectualism in the public sphere (at least in the English-Internet-dominating USA) over the past 30 years, and the downright Evil "creative play is kid's stuff, grown-ups impress people with how efficient they are at generating large numbers in some form" prejudice.
Welcome to 'murica and it's increasingly idiotic school system that was designed in the 1940s by a guy who went to Poland to study their school system, which was designed to produce docile factory workers. Add in the idiocy behind "No child left behind", that while noble an idea, produces the exact opposite in practice, and you've got the perfect system for producing shallow, docile sheep stuck in a state of consumer frenzy.
But this is something I've been raging about since I noticed it after my parents yoinked me out of the established school system and shoved me into a charter school. May have missed out on the "high school experience", but it was probably one of the best things they could've done for me. Regardless, dead horse that I've pounded into a pulp long ago, I'll rave no more.
Cut funding to schools with low test scores... wtf...
edit: I'm going off memory here. Might have been another country... Prussia perhaps. Somewhere in that area that started with a "p". Point still stands.
Hmm... One my fiance just mentioned that I feel the need to parrot, as it irks me so subtly I hadn't really noticed.
Ones who complain about character concept that is unoriginal or unimaginative, yet everything they ever come up with has already been done before. Everything. Has. Already. Been. Done. As they say, 'nihil novi sub sole'.
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
I... Can't even wrap my head around this one. All I got is he's got racist issues and directed them into gaming rather than dealing with showing the real aspects out of game.
Or maybe he got molested by a christmas elf as a child. Who knows?
1) People who auto-hate anything "weeabo". (Just because I like anime does not give you the right to $#!7 kittens when I show up at your table)
2) Those that take this game too seriously. (This is not an acting theater, it's a game, #$*^ing relax already!)
3) Min-maxing, powergaming, metagaming, "You do 2 points less DPR than I do? YOU FAIL AT LIFE! GO KILL YOURSELF!" pricks. (See #2).
4) Those that have a conniption at one off-color (perverted) joke and auto-lump all perverts in with the completely socially inept mouth-breathers (the ones that stare at your GF and shout "T#@$ OR GTFO!" on Halo?).
I'm Hiding In Your Closet wrote:
A theater that puts on a new play every day, but every one of them is poorly-acted and terribly-written, with the cheapest costumes, sets, and props imaginable - it's almost like whoever set this up went out of their way to establish the worst theater ever. There are all of three individuals in attendance, sitting in the front row: A plain-looking human male, a talking raven, and a homunculus. If the PCs decide to watch the show for a bit, they will discover that while the plays are not entertaining, the endless heckling coming from those three are.
Repeat after me. "It's just a show, I should really just relax."
Me thinks... I'll be avoiding that site in general. I find my tolerance for things much less these days the more often I find myself stressed. Rather depression, as I used to laugh at such things as 'two girls and a cup'....
Back on topic....
Within a single room of the dungeon, put a shiny red ball on a pedestal. The room is thirty by thirty feet, completely dark, save for one beam of light illuminating this ball. When the party enters, the room is sealed off with a collapsed ceiling, and the room lights up, revealing skeletons and bones just littering the floor, mostly congregated around the ball.
The ball starts to get glowing, spidery runes appearing on it. They appear slowly, one line at a time. The walls are stone arches, with marble walls, and covered with scorch marks, and a few body outlines.
The ball was put there by the wizard who has a secret door within one of the arches. The bones are real, the scorch marks are real, and the runes appearing on the ball are real. He simply didn't want to be bothered.
The party has 1d20 rounds to figure out how to get out. Otherwise, the runes on the ball finish inscribing themselves. When finished, all creatures in the room are subjected to a Dominate Monster spell, DC whatever you want it to be, to stare at the ball. Those that fail are Geas'd into following the shiny red ball wherever it goes, with a constant (whatever the spell was that lets you pinpoint the direction of a creature) centered on the ball. The pedestal then collapses, revealing a 5 foot hole in the floor, of which the ball falls.
It's a drop to the lower level. The ball then starts bouncing and rolling a straightforward route out of the dungeon, and then off in some random direction away from the dungeon.
Or, in other words.... Make them chase the shiny red ball... Literally.