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Lantern Bearer

Artemis Moonstar's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 718 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.

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... Darn you all!

I was just about to start playing Pokemon to catch up with my GF (we play the same generation at the same time in a 'couple' fashion), and then... I found this thread.

Where's my old Final Fantasy Anathology PS1 discs? Or that combo Chrono Trigger/FF4 set? I MUST PLAY! At least the ps3 isn't bothered by the scratches on disc 1 of my FF9 that prevented me from getting past the opening movie...

Note to self: re-buy FF7/8 & Xenogears... Damn ex stealing my best games... Grr...

That said...

I am so totally going to try and stat up Setzer now...

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ParagonDireRaccoon wrote:
When Artemis Moonstar posts a Techslinger with heavy weapons I think we'll see the bar raised for ACG and Tech Guide power builds.

Don't get your hopes up too high. Heavy Weps are a bit harder to bust than I initially thought. Slow-Firing is kicking my [REDACTED]...

So, expect it to be more of a fun build than anything ultra-broke.

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graystone wrote:
Athaleon wrote:
Difficult fights should never involve a single creature anyways.
You should check out this companies adventure paths. Often it IS a "single creature".

And this is a problem. IMO anyways.

Just because something's op'd in an AP does not mean it's OP'd in a homebrew game... Unless the GM uses similar design.

Just like I ignore the Crane Wing nerf when I run, because it's never been a problem for me. Then again, I'm old school, brutal, and run my enemies according to how intelligent they should be.

But this is derailing.

Give me an hour or two, I might have something that busts heavy weapons wide open. Need to check a few things... After dinner.

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11th level. Techslinger. Signature deed feat.

Techslingers get the following deed.

Covet Charge (Ex): At 1st level, a techslinger can spend 1 grit point to use 1 charge fewer than normal when firing a technological weapon (minimum 0), as long as the weapon has enough charges remaining to be fired at least once. This deed replaces deadeye.

Use a 1 charge using item, and you pretty much never have to worry about running out.. Far as I know. Also, Techslingers get this too.

Charge Recycling (Ex): At 11th level, by spending 1 grit point, a techslinger can grant 1 temporary charge to a technological firearm, even if the firearm normally can no longer be recharged. This charge must be used within 1 hour or it fades. The techslinger can grant temporary charges to multiple firearms as long as she has enough grit, but temporary charges do not stack with themselves in the same firearm. At 15th level, the techslinger can grant 2 temporary charges when she uses this deed, and at 19th level, she can grant 3 temporary charges. This deed replaces expert loading.

So, yeah, run out and you don't need to worry for an hour when combined with above.


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My major problem with uses per day isn't so much the fluff (of which I shall keep my opinion on it close to the vest, though it seems to differ from many in this thread)... It's the gameplay consequences.

In short.. It reinforces the fifteen minute work day. At least from what I've experienced. I know very few who would actually want to be the truly epic big damn heroes that continue on despite being tired and worn out.

I can understand resting for HP... But when entire parties are resting because people are out of x/day (this includes x/rounds, x/anything, x/etc), despite having good HP and casters still have a handful spells left... Totally breaks my verisimilitude.

I can get the tactical advantage of fighting the BBEG at totally topped off everything... But there's no effing thrill to the story when the heroes plow through a dungeon, rest for a few hours inside said dungeon, then go off to fight the final boss as pristine as the day they left town! And usually, due to how most of these 'Boss Fights' are designed, these fully fresh characters often trounce said boss... Because there's nothing in the module that states the boss would rather harass them while sleeping, than sitting in his sanctuary wringing his hands evilly and twirling his mustache.

Don't believe me? I've seen it, I've been in parties that do it. Several times. One of my worst groups would practically boycott and derail the game until they got to do it, which is not a good experience for a new GM (who was only doing it because none of the usual GMs wanted to, despite only having been playing for a year beforehand), which made her vow never to GM again, mainly due to the fact, that they vehemently argued with very raised voices they 'Should' be able to ONLY so the casters can re-prepare their spells, and the barb can get rage rounds ("By not letting us sleep, you're just trying to pull a TPK!"). After only ONE and a HALF combats at level 2 (they retreated, and the nature of the dream labyrinth prevents things from leaving their assigned rooms).

It's why I've started to shake off the rust and DM again. There's nothing more of a buzz kill to me than having the psyched momentum grind to a freaking halt just so the barbarian can sleep and be pissed off tomorrow. Fortunately, those who I DM for (though that number is small) happen to agree with me, so though I'm not a player, I'm getting the BDH feeling through DMing for them ^_^.

I have no problem with Use Per Day features. I find them to be rather fun to use, and depending on what they are, rather thematic... It's the game play attitude that they enable that upsets me.

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The first thing that popped in my head when I reas Chainsaws....


I am a very, very happy individual.

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I haven't been able to look at the ACG yet, but... What is with all this fear concerning the new stuff? Seriously. I've been reading up vast majority of these ACG posts, and I just gotta say.

If you're worried about it, let it in bit by bit on the condition it'll be retired if it gets too imbalancing, or house ruled. That way, you can actually see what it seems like IN GAME, rather than read it, scream "OMG!" and assume that it's totally broken... Without seeing it in play first.

Sorry if that sounded offensive, or if anyone took it offensively, but that's seriously a lot of what I'm seeing in response to the ACG. Mostly the Arcanist, I'll admit, but some other stuff as well.

What ever happened to PLAYING it, and THEN judging it? Or am I just too old school for these new-fangled players?

Seriously... Everyone's group is different. What's broke at your table may be sub par at someone else's.

Sry for the venting, just getting tired of seeing people getting far too up in arms over judging books by their covers.

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Berserkr (Barbarian/Druid)
No spell casting, but full BAB, and they Wild Shape when Raging....

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Chester the Cheetah: It aint easy, bein' cheesy

Wizard: Says you....

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Tacticslion wrote:
Artemis Moonstar wrote:
All this discussion of Schrodinger makes me want to play a half-undead cat....

... but would you be a spellcasting cat? Also: what gender?

... and would you be a calico?!

These are the questions of our age.

(Or at least that one thread. Sounds pretty fun, to me.)

I shall be an Oracle! With the Deaf curse! To heck with your silliness of not being able to cast as a cat! My stuff's Silenced!

I'd rather be Siamese. That way, I can cast Mirror Image (fine, I'll dip if I have to), and use Ghost Sound to make me and my copies sing! "We are Siamese if you please! We are Siamese if you don't please!"

Not sure about that other guy, but I got my answers.

Edit: Also, because I feel like it... I'll roll a D4. Male, Female, Hermaphroditic, Genderless. MAGIC DOES WEIRD THINGS!

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Ravingdork wrote:
Green Smashomancer wrote:
Ever want to do something? There's a spell for that.
I recently found one that polishes a metal object to a mirror-like sheen...and that's it.

... Didn't Prestidigitation already do that?

I seriously begin to wonder about things that are put in simply to fill up page space now...

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Athaleon wrote:
Andrew R wrote:
Artanthos wrote:

Schrodinger's wizard always wins.

Unfortunately, he never shows up to "real" campaigns.

Yet some players seem to have schrodinger's spell list......
That's nothing. I've seen people post Fighters with Schrodinger's Handy Haversack.

All this discussion of Schrodinger makes me want to play a half-undead cat....

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Good to know. Generally hate using other people's settings and characters, my ridiculously high standards I hold myself to always leaves me feeling as if I didn't get it "quite right", as it were. That's the one part of my inner critic I can't seem to turn off, lol.

That said! Always need more practice, particularly for flash/very short fiction.

*Cracks knuckles* Time to crack open the ISWG, Land of the Pharaohs, Pathfinder Wiki, and Nethys' Archives. Let's see what I can cook up for this scene of a dungeon delve I've got playing in my head.

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Allow me to shed a little more light on the situation, beyond people just going "Oh, yeah,it exists!" without expanding on it.

Mostly, it exists in theorycraft. There are a few situations in game that grants anecdotal evidence of the Spellcasters = Win idea.

1) 15 minute work days. Fix: Don't let your casters go nova, nap, nova, nap, nova nap.

2) Caster player has excellent/near perfect system mastery, GM not so much. Fix: Not much to do about this one.

3) High level play tends to reinforce this idea, particularly because martials lag behind high system mastery casters.

The Misconception: A lot of these 'Spellcaster = Win' scenarios require contrived, 'perfect' situations. There's also this idea of the 'Scry and Fry' always being a thing, thus you'll have the perfect spell every time. Martials require more work to kill things at higher levels, casters require less.

Personal anecdotal: I've played in some groups where Casters were instant-winning encounters of all kinds. However, this was due primarily to the fact that they were "I'm out of spells! I need to sleep!" and the entire adventuring day halted... With no consequences, EVER.

Said group hated me as a GM because not only did I ask for spells known/prepped lists (prompting one player to go from Sorcerer, to cleric, to finally Paladin, when she suddenly stopped having all the perfect spells known for the situation... At level 4). I also dealt with the 15 minute work day, in which, yeah, sure, find an empty room in the dungeon to sleep. Expect to get assaulted in the middle of the night since my monsters aren't idiotic statues that stay in their assigned room forevermore, and actually WANDER. Researching for the encounter ahead was fine... They just never got to know ever single itty bitty detail about what they'd be fighting.

So... Yeah, in some groups, this is a thing. It's very, very easily fixed by competent GMs. There's SR, anti-magic, dispel magic, fixes I suggested above, etc.

One other reason why your group probably doesn't see it as much, is because a lot of the spellcaster's power is in actually in the grid system, which no one ever really realizes. With the grid system, you have hard, codified evidence of where the enemies are, where your guys are, and where you can place your spells... and it's not all reliant on GM fiat whether or not the mobs are actually outside the spell range or not, when the GM doesn't want a single spell to end the entire adventure in one round. It's a lot easier to keep track of lasting effects on a gid/hex mat, and a lot easier for a caster to visualize and plan where his spells need to go, since he can use all of his mental power towards it, rather than diverting some to the imagination play....

Which, by the way, is a style of play I have not been able to participate in years, and sorely long for... Ah, nostalgia....

Edit: And, yeah, your approach could also pretty much handle this argument. Much of the spellcaster's abilities come out of RAW, and quite often, some out-there readings of it.

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.... Heard about this on the radio in the car.

I think I'm now going to have a Robin Williams Movie Marathon. Time to drag out my old VHS tapes.... Doubtfire, Aladdin, Flubber, that 1 episode of Whose Line Is It Anyway...

Excuse me whilst I take a moment to compose myself...

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Bandw2 wrote:
all I can say is bike animals.

Long have I desired to turn This into a thing.

That said... Talk to your GM, OP guy. See if you can't undo the gender swap.

Personally, being of randomized-gender myself on any given day, I'd view it as a wonderful RP opportunity. YMMV.

That said... You may really want to try and change it.. Given the whole.. Heat... Thing...

Should we not piss this pussy off? :p (I kid)

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I... But... AAAGHH!!!

This or ACG, this or ACG!?

I hate being poor.


Tesla to me = Einstein to Dexter (Dexter's Laboratory)...


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I think most of the multi-class hate comes from the fact that mechanically, for the most part, single-class are better.

Me? I view classes as more chasis of a character's training, rather than an actual job descriptor. So, I actually don't mind multiclassing. Just depends on the campaign and if it makes sense for the character. I personally HATE this idea that classes are job descriptors or titles.

"Hey bob, what do you do?" "I'm a fighter!" as opposed to, "Hey bob, what do you do?" "I'm a true warrior."... Or, "I'm a barbarian!" as opposed to, "I am the fang and claw of my tribe, I bring death to my foes and honor to my clan".... Which would you rather say or hear in character?

Once had a rogue, who had initially planned on becoming leader of the guild he was exiled from in his back story, set up as your run of the mill thief. Halfling, Childlike, Pass for Human halfling shenanigans. Over the course of the campaign, he wound up making a connection with the party monk, who had a similar experience (framed, exile or death), who instead decided to take it in stride and continue his life, while still adhering to his zen Buddhist styled ways. At the end of the campaign (before it imploded due to GM burn out), I had a Rogue 6/Monk 4, that had started out initially at CN, ended at LN, and abandoned his quest for revenge.

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LazarX wrote:
ShallowHammer wrote:
LazarX wrote:

What really makes us primitive is that we still think smartphones are a good idea.

Or that we call them "smart?"
That shows how devolved we are.

Reference the anime Summer Wars for the direction we're heading... That, and Wall-E! All because we think it's intelligent to link our bank accounts, safe combinations, cars, home security, kitchens, and whatever else, to our PHONES AND THE INTERWEBZ!

That said, I'm all up for a Pluto Elemental. I think it might look like a dog!

But, are we sure these elementals are actually elementals? They could be aliens... I mean, just look at Miss Methane...

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Cuurrssee yoouuuu!!!

Now I'm going to have to rebuild my Dhampir Inquisitor of Pharasma into the Pharasmin Slayer. Death Attacking the Undead.....

I thought I'd retired that guy....

*grumble grumble*

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This iconic is going right up there with Seltyiel on the top of the shelf as my top favorite Iconics. Excellent back story.

Also. As a person who's gender identity fluctuates (my "heart/soul" seems to be unable to decide with any finality), seeing an iconic as an open Trans from the get-go. Makes me quite happy.

Makes me even happier the fact that it fits in with a lot of shamanistic/spiritual lore of various cultures. The occult-nerd in me had a squee moment at that...

Though, the fact that it's a female dwarf for an Iconic made the dwarf-lover in me squee even more.

Warm fuzzy happy all around!

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Owly wrote:

Polymorph any Object is a good solution, in my opinion. It's the ultimate polymorph spell, and incorporates doing anything at all to your opponent if they fail their save. At that level, there's no reason why a collective figurine wouldn't be do-able. Are you going to keep them in the package to maintain value?

But howabout a little fun? What if we combined a number of spells and (with your GM's permission) made a fun adventure hook out of it?;
- maze
- imprisonment
- baleful polymorph
- create demi-plane
- polymorph any object
- sympathy

Through careful planning and treacherous skullduggery, you've managed to entrap your lifelong enemies in a demiplane of your own devising. It's a nightmare world where they live, fight and die for your pleasure. Each enemy is controlled inside the world through the use of a game piece (of themselves) and an elaborate gaming table. You and your fellow wizards delight at playing "gods" to these men and women inside the demiplane, who play out dreadful stories for the amusement of you and your guests.

Most excellent. Now, perhaps we shall devise a series of enchantments into the table that buff or debuff these trapped game-piece enemies, determined by a roll of a rather mundane version of the Knucklebone of Fickle Fortune. Perhaps give everyone this twenty sided bone....

.... Wait... This sounds familiar...

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Jiggy wrote:

I've made many attempts at trying to communicate what it is that martials need. I think my most successful such communication may be this post:

In another thread, I wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread, but to my way of thinking there's one big thing that the fighter needs to be "unchained" from that's more important than anything else:


"You can't shoot a bow that many times in 6 seconds!"
"You can't jump that far!"
"You can't just cut through a door like it's butter!"
"You can't wrestle something that big!"
"You can't cut something incorporeal without magic!"
"You can't break that world record!"

You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't... No, you can't. That's why I'm playing a fantasy game starring someone who isn't YOU.

Currently, the name of the game is "if real people can't do it, then fantasy people can't* do it either".

I want my fighter to stop the dragon's bite by grabbing him by the teeth. And then body slam him.

I want my fighter to swing his sword and bat your enervation right back at you.

I want my fighter to get save-or-die effects at the same level your wizard does. Maybe even earlier, since I'm supposed to be good at killing things.

I want my fighter to have things he can do that no magic spell can duplicate.

Unchain the fighter from "realism". Everything else will follow.

** spoiler omitted **

Seriously fantastic, and the point of a lot of these "problems with martials" threads.

Also, I quoted because this needs to be read at least 3 times. It's that awesome.

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It was way back in the 60's, when they called it lost in space.

Oh, I'm sorry, wrong lyrics (volatire "USS Make $#!- Up").

Might as well necro the old one if you wanna run this atrocious topic again. All the debates and "data" are already there, and no one really need add anything new!

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You're most welcome. Feel free to let me know if you've got anything else you want me to take a stab at, I could use the writing practice.

Seriously though. One of the better fantasy arts I've seen. Kudos!

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Writing Notes:
I took a little artistic license with the color of Orc blood. Goblinoids and Orc-types always have black colored blood in my games/settings/stories.

The Battle of Arthfell Woods wrote:

"Tch... Figures." He grumbled to himself as he crashed through the forest.

Valeros had gotten separated from his party, again. It was meant to be a simple mission, get in, wipe out some mercenaries that were plaguing a small village, get some loot, and go home. Now he was trudging through the enemy's forest, alone, with not even so much as an inkling of where his party might be.

Maybe I'll start investing in some lighter armor... This stuff doesn't help so much with avoiding those damn pit traps. Valeros thought to himself as he patted his breastplate. The more he thought about it, the more he scowled. No, I'd rather not deal with how Merisiel would act if I did...

He stopped as he kicked a fallen branch out of his way. Something had caught his attention, something altogether disturbing. There was no sound coming from the forest. No birds, no vermin, not even any insects. Pure and total silence reigned.

He'd much rather have heard something else, anything else. The crackle of Seltyiel's lightning, the roar or Alahazra's conflagrations, Lini's angry kitty, or even the boom from that half-witted Damiel's half-baked concoctions. Silence, however, weighed on his nerves like an overlarge harvest of corn on one's shoulders.

The sound of metal escaping it's sheath broke the oppressive silence. A chill danced along his spine as the echo of drawing his trusty blades was devoured, and silence once more reigned supreme. His entire body began to tense, from his scalp to his soles, as his hair stood on end.

The rustle of leaves caused Valeros' reflexes to react before he had any conscious thought to do so. Rolling to the side, he could feel a blade strike where his skull was mid-roll, catching some of his hair as it dug into the soft earth. Rolling to his feet, blades at the ready, he confronted his assailant.

Across from him, a dirty green skin. The orc was easily as tall as he was, buff in a slender way that suddenly reminded him of Imrijka, though without the half-orc's intriguing curves. He was clad in a dark leather, with some kind of quilted padding to reduce the noise, wielding a wicked looking battle axe.

Two more dropped from the trees, flanking their comrade. These were more like the orcs he was familiar with. One was wearing a simple set of scale mail, wielding a great sword. The other had somehow managed it's way into a hiding spot up a tree in half-plate, with a halberd. Their sneers were met with an increasingly excited smirk.

"Well it's about damn time! Do you know how long I've been looking for you guys? I'm going to have to make you pay for cutting my hair, the cute barmaid back in town had the hots for it!"

As his initial shock turned to battle lust, he found himself excited. This would be a fun challenge he had not had in a while. Alone, and outnumbered, why, this hadn't happened since he was hunting down Thomas Thunderhawk and his brothers when they escaped the gallows, during his bounty hunter days.

The orcs glanced at each other. Turning their attention back to him, they roared a furious war cry as they charged. Valeros' responded with an uproarious bellow, drowning out the orc's feeble attempt at intimidation.

The clash of steel echoed as the battle cries ceased. Valeros parried their opening attacks, delivering a telling blow with a slash across the leather clad orc's head. The shortsword bit deep, with a jarring scrape along the thick skull, spraying foul black blood as it finished it's arc.

The halberd glanced off his armor as the great sword missed his head by mere inches. Adrenaline rushed through his body as the longsword smashed against the scale mail, hardly doing any damage. The shortsword, however, slipped in through a chink and poked the orc in the hip.

At first, all Valeros could hear was the clatter of warring metals, and the enraged or pained cries of his opponents. Soon, however, as he began to pant, there was naught but ringing in his ears.

The leather clad orc fell when his longsword found its way into it's heart, cleaving through bone with a single thrust, then shredded a lung as Valeros yanked it out through the orc's side. Thick black blood sprayed everywhere, coating the warriors and forest with it's foul stench. Valeros had to wrinkle his nose to ignore it.

The orc in the scale male was the next to fall. A few choice strikes with his longsword would hew the armor in twain. It was a simple matter of taking a trick from Merisiel's book and planting his shortsword to the hilt in the orc's spine, and yank up.

The one in the half-plate decided it was going to be a bit tougher. The two warriors seemed to have a hard time landing any telling blows. Valeros' blades seemed to bounce off the orc's armor, whilst the halberd was being blocked or turned away by Valeros' blades.

The stalemate finally ended, however, when Valeros sidestepped the halberd. Planting a vicious kick to the orc's knee, he dropped it. Swinging his blades, long and short, he brought them together, crossing mere centimeters from each other. Valeros didn't even flinch as he felt the blades connect with the orc's vertebrae, severing them, before continuing on through the meat.

He did, however, grimace as the rancid blackness sprayed from the stump where the orc's head used to be. Turning his face from the fountain, he decided he was definitely going to need a bath. Running the back of his vambrace over his face after the orc geyser stopped, did not help any.

There was some rustling from the brush off to his right. He rolled his eyes, turning to prepare for another fight. The magus burst through the bushes, blade in hand, arcane energy swirling within the other. The others of this disparate band arrived not long after, seemingly prepared for battle. Seeing that the battle had already ended, Seltyiel let the mystic energies fade, and cast a glare at Valeros.

"Where the hell were you!?" Seltyiel all but shouted at him.

Valeros' flat stare was all the answer the magus needed.....

Started on it like, an hour and a half ago. Remind me to never write in a browser again. It ate this thing like, three times. Seriously need to work on remembering the exact details of what I wrote, this is crap compared to the first attempt.

I'd have had a better combat scene... But, well, I got tired while writing it, and I was frustrated a few times over. So... Yeah.

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chaoseffect wrote:
Cerberus Seven wrote:
So this feat is fine, but Crane Wing is overpowered? Honestly, I just don't get it. What were you thinking when you approved this cluster-frack of a feat, Paizo?
It's ok because it's magic. It's not like its some sort of water balloon fighting style. That would be ridiculous.

Exactly. Magic isn't bound by your silly reality and rules like martials are! Castys break reality so hard, we break the rule set too!


Even Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would cringe in terror at this feat, and they quite literally break reality on a daily basis.


... *facepalm* How could I forget possibly my most favorite trap, er, I mean, artifact!?

And at least Numerology can be done before the game session! Just take all your spells, apply Numerology to it, and you're done.... This thing though...

Martials should get a feat that let you get more feats than what you originally had... I know! Let's turn the Brawler's class ability to gain multiple feats into a feat itself you can get at level 2! "Profession: Warrior 2 ranks". You can take it multiple times to get even more phantom feats!

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1) You basically get 2 metamagic feats for free. Yes, you can only use them using this feat, but you still have them as an option.

2) You can select it multiple times, choosing 2 metamagic feats to get for free with this feat as many times as you want.

3) You can use any metamagic feats you already have without this feat in any case.

4) You can apply as many metamagic feats as you want, as long as the modified level is not above that which you can cast.

5) The cost is increasing the casting time by one increment, or two if you're a spontaneous caster. This is negated by Quicken Spell metamagic feat.

6) If you succeed on this silly mechanic, you cast the spell using the base spell slot of the spell that was modified, NOT the modified spell level. Therefore, if you quicken, say, Color Spray, you still only use up the 1st level slot. At this point it is unclear if Quick makes it a swift, or merely negates the increment increase and you cast as a standard.

7) According to Chort's testing, he was capable of getting the assigned prime constants 10 out of 10 times. That means 10 times you get FREE metamagic tricks, as the "cost" of metamagic feats are increased spell slots used.

8) The feat says NOTHING about not counting any of the tricks people can use to decrease the final modified spell level. Magical Knack, for example, knocks 1 level off the final modified level of the spell (though still can't go over what you can cast before this subtraction last I heard), thus changing the numbers you need to get to the lower level primes, which should be easier to get than the higher level primes.

That's just off the top of my head. Someone let me know if I missed anything.

Edit: Edited for typo.

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.... Yes.

In my games, I am so introducing druid terrorists. They shall all be Elves... With dreadlocks and those knit Jamaican styled beanies, and speak like stoned 70s hippie rejects! And they shall be strangely obsessed with fluffy little seals!

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The Lion Cleric wrote:

Sounds like it belongs in Pathfinder Unleashed. Where's the feat that if you tear up your PHB, you win the game?

(blatant TCG reference)

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Anzyr wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

I do like how it keys off the # of ranks in a skill. That's something I'd like to see more often.

...Granted, that's something I'd like to see more often in rogue talents, but still.

Yes, in that aspect it's actually really cool, more numbers should theoretically make getting a target prime number easier. But... wow. When do my martials get to use my ranks in Perception to do math and get True Seeing or my acrobatics to gain a miss chance?

You sir, have just given me something to work on to homebrew. +1 for you and arachnofiend.

Hey guys! I just found the second feat of the tree for this thing!:

It bumps the dice!

Makes me wonder how this works with Spell Perfection and/or Spontaneous Metafocus.

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Personally? This feat would have made a better Wizard archetype. Seriously. How can you sit there and NOT tell me that it's perfectly thematic of a mathematics-oriented wizard?

The only balancing factors of this feat are: the random factor that may or may not let you hit those 3 primes; the fact that if you fail, you lose the spell anyways; that it takes a full round action unless you sac 4 levels to keep it a standard.

I'd still probably use it on a sorcerer. Actually, I'd use it on an Oracle. I'd like to point out they only call out "Sorcerers and Bards" as increasing the casting time two steps, rather than all "spontaneous casters". So...

Enjoy your 2 free metamagic feats, Oracle!

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On the other hand... Despite the amount of math necessary... I have long wanted to see Sacred Geometry play a role in TTRPGs. It's been a fascinating philosophy to me, and I always wanted to see a party with a Wizard of Words (Scroll Scholar/Scroll Master, in my mind. See: The Paper in Read or Die), and a Geometer (centered around the concepts of Sacred Geometry, with it's math and shapes) in the same party. Oh the banter that could be.....

Slightly off topic, but I'd love to see a Geomancer class, via Final Fantasy Tactics (original/War of the Lions). But that would just be a freaking nightmare to figure out what effects specific terrains would give you, much less how they're spread across 20 levels. <- this brought up thanks to the connection between geometer and geomancer ("Geo").

Then again... This may not be the way for one to put Sacred Geometry into a TTRPG. More math!? That won't slow the game down at all.

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The metamagician in me is ULTRA HAPPY!

The kid who hated math in school in me is organizing a lynch mob.

Edit: One would have to find the butter zone for the # of d6s rolled... This may be because I sux at math (coasted by with about a B average) and haven't done complex calculations in years... But wouldn't adding more random dice make it harder for you to hit any of the lower level prime constants? 20d6 is a lot of numbers. What if I don't want to Empower Maximize Heighten Quicken Dazing Rime Bouncing my Magic Missile? xD

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Challenge accepted... Maybe. I'll see about writing up a scene based on it after I wake up. 4 AM, need some sleep!

That said... That is some pretty darn fine art ya got there boyo. Makes me wish I could draw better xD.

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SAMAS wrote:
The problem is the idea that only spells can be awesome. That the Mundane has to be, well, mundane.

This pretty much sums it up. Well, that, and the idea that martials are only ever mundane. Mix those two together, and you've got the major preconceived notion that causes these kinds of threads and debates...

Personally, martials should be like super heros. Let the muggles be mundane, fighters should be treated like Captain America. Sure, Scarlet Witch can modify reality (God-Wizard Wish!), but, come on. Cap's kicking ass in all the most badass ways. You seriously tellin' me Cap's mundane?

(Edit: that last bit is more general rhetorical, and not directed at you SAMAS. Just so ya know)

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..... I... That...

And after I just posted how awesome Paizo was for the support and swag it gave to a transgender fan.... I come and find this....

... This company makes my mood swing more often than manic bi-polar disorder with a hair trigger.

I can't... Even begin to wrap my head around that. Remind me why I keep supporting these people?

Nah, that's not fair. Sins of the few don't reflect the many and all that jazz.

... Screw it. I need to go play some Brawl. Maybe Ganondorfing someone off the stage a few times'll cheer me up. I'll be back after I take a moment...

That's just... How the f... Someone's got a malfunctioning moral compass, and it aint us....

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Seems like every time I get upset with Paizo for some ruling via FAQ or Errata, nerfbat something into unplayability that doesn't deserve it/wasn't the problem, or just generally devs post something that I consider to be rather stupid (see the "because I say so" dodging questions of the blood drinker feat debacle going on)....

They turn around and do something like this. Just... Damn you Paizo for being so awesome. I'd like to see some other big company do this for one of their fans. They won't, mainly because they're "Profits and share holders first! Everyone else later!" types.

Just... Hurry up and take my money before the pendulum swings and I'm raging about the latest illogical debacle. xD

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"Your soul is MINE!"

Had a half-orc barbarian once, very broken common. Had a habit of making challenging enemy's skulls into ornaments (usually cod-pieces since everywhere else was full of other fetishes). After a particularly funny and unintentional intimidate check involving a rival half-elf, the line "You great foe! When battle over, happy ending!" while gesturing to the codpiece, this became his go-to battle cry.... "FOR THE HAPPY ENDING!"

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Pffft. Keep your folding chair. I only got one thing to say about it....


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I'm sensing some purposeful intent to derail the thread and be hostile here.

In any case, I can see where this thread is headed. Much as I'd like to stick around a help try to keep it on topic, it's starting to get a bit too heated in here for me to hold out much hope.

Comes from people thinking that someone's attacking their fave system. Knee-jerk, grab the bazooka, blast the tracks.

Wiggz, I'm writin' down what your group did and going to give that a try the next couple times around. Sounds like a pretty workable fix to me.

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Without getting into an edition war here...

I find the concept appealing... What I don't like was that in order to "Balance" everything, you were pretty much locked into your choices. Literally, after playing for a while, and looking very close at what everything did... It's all the same thing, across many of the classes. You weren't cookie cutters, but... Really... It was just a whole mess of the same stuff with different fluff and maybe a different damage type. My biggest gripe was the tiny number of abilities you get outside of utility powers.

I once had a guy tell me you could build more versatile and unique concepts in 4E than PF... It took everything I had to not laugh in his face.

Personally I prefer a breadth of options. Truly unique options. Which is why I like PF... At least until Archetypes started shanking other classes in the back and taking their stuff. At that point it became a major question of "Why play X anymore when Y can do it too, with all this other awesome stuff!"... Not merely from a desired power level stand point, but from the pure fact of I had a game where the rogue was seriously outclassed and incredibly unhappy with her character when the Bard was doing everything the Rogue was typically saved for, and BETTER! (Despite her being built with trap finding and disabling in mind.)

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I think it all boils down to the fact that, as written, the rules for the Pally's fall can be taken far too many different ways. In a system where even scratching your rump requires rules, you cannot be vague like the PF paladin is. Okay, so, you don't need rules to say "I'm scratching my tookus", but there have been several things that people were doing via house rules and handwave that suddenly cropped up as requiring feats to do. Unfortunately I cannot seem to recall them myself, but I know there was quite a big stink about it around here back at the time.

And I quote:

Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Ex Paladins: A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description in Spell Lists), as appropriate.

See? VAGUE! "And so forth"? This stuff does NOT belong in a system that seems to be trying to take anything you can think of and slap a set of rules on it. The simple addition of "and so forth" means that they are open for interpretation, and as this thread has proven, everyone has their own interpretation.

So, while you certainly CAN run a Paladin via RAW, there will be conflict between the player and the GM unless specific code rules are written for use.

The "willful" part only applies to committing an evil act. If you help a peasant, who then uses the result of that help to go knife their ex husband in the back one day... That's an evil end, and pop, fallen. Even if you were not willfully committing the act yourself.

Sad fact is, they're poorly written. The simple addition of "and so forth" violates the basic understanding that RULES are RULES, and NOT to be 'interpreted', for that could lead to much abuse. With the Paladin, this abuse comes in many of the forms commented within this thread.

So, yes. By RAW for a Pathfinder pally, you pretty much have to toss the rules out if you don't want to fall by yawning during the Chieftain's dull speech, or accidentally insulting their wife. Acting with honor depends on what honor you're following! In Tian Xia with Samurai, you'd pretty much never be able to walk away, surrender, or lose, because that would count as 'dishonor' to PF's bushido code. See my example above for helping those in need. If you see someone so much as punish a house servant with a few lashes, you're to "Punish" them for the abuse, which could be read as anywhere from a stern talking to and a serious fine, to flat out smiting them from the face of the planet. Hell, even picking up one of the rogue's daggers and using it, only to be surprised it has poison, would, by RAW, zap you of all your powers.

There is no "willfully" in those parts of the code. People an argue to hog heaven about the intent of the code, but the fact of how the code and ex-paladin sections are written are staring you right in the bleedin' face.

Which is why, as much as I would want to play a Paladin in PF (Stone Lords sound awesome!)... There would have to be some serious fixing going on by the DM.

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This one would best be saved until after the party finishes a quest or two, something noteworthy. Admittedly, this would be something that would start better at low-level, like, around level 2 or 3.

464. The Teller of Tales
You and your companions have arrived during [town name]'s spring festival after dealing with the threat that plagued the sleepy village. There's an old man sitting with his back to the bonfire, reading stories to the ring of children around him from a very large leather book in his lap. The tale you hear when you [approach/pass by], is a very detailed account of the quest your party had just finished. After this tale, he stands, and retreats to his tent. Later that night, as you all sleep, you dream of the massive leather tome... When you awake, you find yourselves in a world unlike any you've heard of... Except, as a child.

Basically, it's the plot hook/point/narration for a fairy tale campaign my GF and I are designing. Using all the old classics, mainly from the Brothers Grimm...

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This thread reminds me of a half-orc barbarian I made once... Had a habit of turning the skulls of his greatest challenges into cod pieces. At one point, we were facing the 'mirror evil party' the GM liked to use at the time.

Halfway through the fight, the barbarian grins at the enemy half-elf. "You great foe! When battle over, happy ending!" While gesturing toward his cod piece.

GM rolled a few dice... Then the half-elf ran screaming into the night. Apparently I made an intimidate check without even realizing it.

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Half-Orc Drunken Brute Barbarian, Half-Elf Drunken Master Monk, and a Dwarven alchemist with max ranks in Craft (Booze)....

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Imbicatus wrote:
You could use a Monk's Spade instead. It's a Martial weapon, it actually is a shovel, and it's a double weapon.

Also, just because I have to nit pick (big lover of Wu Xia films here).

No, it's not a shovel. Not after a certain point anyway. Which is where I assume PF's version sits.


Yeah, no, love that back story man. Almost fell out of my chair at it. I'm dying to hear how the game runs with him in it.

Should've figured the Shoveler. Love that freaking movie.

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I tend to play whatever floats my boat at the time. So, yeah, I do it regularly. And, I've never felt underpowered.

Then again, not only do I get creative with what I do, but my groups have generally had campaigns that aren't DPR focused.

I still have fun, because I just don't give a flyin' frag grenade about how many kills I rack up (seriously, Pathfinder isn't a freaking FPS, there aren't any leader boards, WTF do you care about getting the last hit on something!? Attack the wizard that's finishing the evil ritual, not the mook with 1 hp left that I've been soloing!).

Only time I didn't have fun was when I was playing an inquisitor, and the GM ruled that Called Shot + True Shot to the head = auto death, because the cleric was a whiny little *deep breath* that wanted to one-shot the big bad of that particular dungeon on round two. Oh, and this last one where the GM introduced a ton of house rules to turn Pathfinder into some weird Warhammer 40K/Star Trek/Serenity hybrid, equipped his Orks with an I-Win button (bomb that blew the ship if they started losing), and an impenetrable shield vs ranged attacks (and I was a gunslinger). On the other hand, those are due to house rules, not class mechanics...

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It always surprises me how many people attack threads like these about non-god-of-DPR builds with what is, in effect, "You're having badwrongfun!"... I thought the advice forums were supposed to help people with their build, not bash them like some elitist MMO player VS a n00b that put a talent point in the 'wrong tree'.

That said....

The Alchemist crossbowman is a very, very fun build. Explosive Missile + Directed Bomb = much, much fun. (Far as I can tell, they work together, because I don't happen to see any asterisks next to them)

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