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Lantern Bearer

Artemis Moonstar's page

Pathfinder Society Member. 619 posts. No reviews. No lists. No wishlists.

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Jiggy wrote:

I've made many attempts at trying to communicate what it is that martials need. I think my most successful such communication may be this post:

In another thread, I wrote:

I haven't read the whole thread, but to my way of thinking there's one big thing that the fighter needs to be "unchained" from that's more important than anything else:


"You can't shoot a bow that many times in 6 seconds!"
"You can't jump that far!"
"You can't just cut through a door like it's butter!"
"You can't wrestle something that big!"
"You can't cut something incorporeal without magic!"
"You can't break that world record!"

You can't, you can't, you can't, you can't, you can't... No, you can't. That's why I'm playing a fantasy game starring someone who isn't YOU.

Currently, the name of the game is "if real people can't do it, then fantasy people can't* do it either".

I want my fighter to stop the dragon's bite by grabbing him by the teeth. And then body slam him.

I want my fighter to swing his sword and bat your enervation right back at you.

I want my fighter to get save-or-die effects at the same level your wizard does. Maybe even earlier, since I'm supposed to be good at killing things.

I want my fighter to have things he can do that no magic spell can duplicate.

Unchain the fighter from "realism". Everything else will follow.

** spoiler omitted **

Seriously fantastic, and the point of a lot of these "problems with martials" threads.

Also, I quoted because this needs to be read at least 3 times. It's that awesome.

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It was way back in the 60's, when they called it lost in space.

Oh, I'm sorry, wrong lyrics (volatire "USS Make $#!- Up").

Might as well necro the old one if you wanna run this atrocious topic again. All the debates and "data" are already there, and no one really need add anything new!

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Writing Notes:
I took a little artistic license with the color of Orc blood. Goblinoids and Orc-types always have black colored blood in my games/settings/stories.

The Battle of Arthfell Woods wrote:

"Tch... Figures." He grumbled to himself as he crashed through the forest.

Valeros had gotten separated from his party, again. It was meant to be a simple mission, get in, wipe out some mercenaries that were plaguing a small village, get some loot, and go home. Now he was trudging through the enemy's forest, alone, with not even so much as an inkling of where his party might be.

Maybe I'll start investing in some lighter armor... This stuff doesn't help so much with avoiding those damn pit traps. Valeros thought to himself as he patted his breastplate. The more he thought about it, the more he scowled. No, I'd rather not deal with how Merisiel would act if I did...

He stopped as he kicked a fallen branch out of his way. Something had caught his attention, something altogether disturbing. There was no sound coming from the forest. No birds, no vermin, not even any insects. Pure and total silence reigned.

He'd much rather have heard something else, anything else. The crackle of Seltyiel's lightning, the roar or Alahazra's conflagrations, Lini's angry kitty, or even the boom from that half-witted Damiel's half-baked concoctions. Silence, however, weighed on his nerves like an overlarge harvest of corn on one's shoulders.

The sound of metal escaping it's sheath broke the oppressive silence. A chill danced along his spine as the echo of drawing his trusty blades was devoured, and silence once more reigned supreme. His entire body began to tense, from his scalp to his soles, as his hair stood on end.

The rustle of leaves caused Valeros' reflexes to react before he had any conscious thought to do so. Rolling to the side, he could feel a blade strike where his skull was mid-roll, catching some of his hair as it dug into the soft earth. Rolling to his feet, blades at the ready, he confronted his assailant.

Across from him, a dirty green skin. The orc was easily as tall as he was, buff in a slender way that suddenly reminded him of Imrijka, though without the half-orc's intriguing curves. He was clad in a dark leather, with some kind of quilted padding to reduce the noise, wielding a wicked looking battle axe.

Two more dropped from the trees, flanking their comrade. These were more like the orcs he was familiar with. One was wearing a simple set of scale mail, wielding a great sword. The other had somehow managed it's way into a hiding spot up a tree in half-plate, with a halberd. Their sneers were met with an increasingly excited smirk.

"Well it's about damn time! Do you know how long I've been looking for you guys? I'm going to have to make you pay for cutting my hair, the cute barmaid back in town had the hots for it!"

As his initial shock turned to battle lust, he found himself excited. This would be a fun challenge he had not had in a while. Alone, and outnumbered, why, this hadn't happened since he was hunting down Thomas Thunderhawk and his brothers when they escaped the gallows, during his bounty hunter days.

The orcs glanced at each other. Turning their attention back to him, they roared a furious war cry as they charged. Valeros' responded with an uproarious bellow, drowning out the orc's feeble attempt at intimidation.

The clash of steel echoed as the battle cries ceased. Valeros parried their opening attacks, delivering a telling blow with a slash across the leather clad orc's head. The shortsword bit deep, with a jarring scrape along the thick skull, spraying foul black blood as it finished it's arc.

The halberd glanced off his armor as the great sword missed his head by mere inches. Adrenaline rushed through his body as the longsword smashed against the scale mail, hardly doing any damage. The shortsword, however, slipped in through a chink and poked the orc in the hip.

At first, all Valeros could hear was the clatter of warring metals, and the enraged or pained cries of his opponents. Soon, however, as he began to pant, there was naught but ringing in his ears.

The leather clad orc fell when his longsword found its way into it's heart, cleaving through bone with a single thrust, then shredded a lung as Valeros yanked it out through the orc's side. Thick black blood sprayed everywhere, coating the warriors and forest with it's foul stench. Valeros had to wrinkle his nose to ignore it.

The orc in the scale male was the next to fall. A few choice strikes with his longsword would hew the armor in twain. It was a simple matter of taking a trick from Merisiel's book and planting his shortsword to the hilt in the orc's spine, and yank up.

The one in the half-plate decided it was going to be a bit tougher. The two warriors seemed to have a hard time landing any telling blows. Valeros' blades seemed to bounce off the orc's armor, whilst the halberd was being blocked or turned away by Valeros' blades.

The stalemate finally ended, however, when Valeros sidestepped the halberd. Planting a vicious kick to the orc's knee, he dropped it. Swinging his blades, long and short, he brought them together, crossing mere centimeters from each other. Valeros didn't even flinch as he felt the blades connect with the orc's vertebrae, severing them, before continuing on through the meat.

He did, however, grimace as the rancid blackness sprayed from the stump where the orc's head used to be. Turning his face from the fountain, he decided he was definitely going to need a bath. Running the back of his vambrace over his face after the orc geyser stopped, did not help any.

There was some rustling from the brush off to his right. He rolled his eyes, turning to prepare for another fight. The magus burst through the bushes, blade in hand, arcane energy swirling within the other. The others of this disparate band arrived not long after, seemingly prepared for battle. Seeing that the battle had already ended, Seltyiel let the mystic energies fade, and cast a glare at Valeros.

"Where the hell were you!?" Seltyiel all but shouted at him.

Valeros' flat stare was all the answer the magus needed.....

Started on it like, an hour and a half ago. Remind me to never write in a browser again. It ate this thing like, three times. Seriously need to work on remembering the exact details of what I wrote, this is crap compared to the first attempt.

I'd have had a better combat scene... But, well, I got tired while writing it, and I was frustrated a few times over. So... Yeah.

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chaoseffect wrote:
Cerberus Seven wrote:
So this feat is fine, but Crane Wing is overpowered? Honestly, I just don't get it. What were you thinking when you approved this cluster-frack of a feat, Paizo?
It's ok because it's magic. It's not like its some sort of water balloon fighting style. That would be ridiculous.

Exactly. Magic isn't bound by your silly reality and rules like martials are! Castys break reality so hard, we break the rule set too!


Even Tengen Toppa Gurren Lagann would cringe in terror at this feat, and they quite literally break reality on a daily basis.


... *facepalm* How could I forget possibly my most favorite trap, er, I mean, artifact!?

And at least Numerology can be done before the game session! Just take all your spells, apply Numerology to it, and you're done.... This thing though...

Martials should get a feat that let you get more feats than what you originally had... I know! Let's turn the Brawler's class ability to gain multiple feats into a feat itself you can get at level 2! "Profession: Warrior 2 ranks". You can take it multiple times to get even more phantom feats!

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1) You basically get 2 metamagic feats for free. Yes, you can only use them using this feat, but you still have them as an option.

2) You can select it multiple times, choosing 2 metamagic feats to get for free with this feat as many times as you want.

3) You can use any metamagic feats you already have without this feat in any case.

4) You can apply as many metamagic feats as you want, as long as the modified level is not above that which you can cast.

5) The cost is increasing the casting time by one increment, or two if you're a spontaneous caster. This is negated by Quicken Spell metamagic feat.

6) If you succeed on this silly mechanic, you cast the spell using the base spell slot of the spell that was modified, NOT the modified spell level. Therefore, if you quicken, say, Color Spray, you still only use up the 1st level slot. At this point it is unclear if Quick makes it a swift, or merely negates the increment increase and you cast as a standard.

7) According to Chort's testing, he was capable of getting the assigned prime constants 10 out of 10 times. That means 10 times you get FREE metamagic tricks, as the "cost" of metamagic feats are increased spell slots used.

8) The feat says NOTHING about not counting any of the tricks people can use to decrease the final modified spell level. Magical Knack, for example, knocks 1 level off the final modified level of the spell (though still can't go over what you can cast before this subtraction last I heard), thus changing the numbers you need to get to the lower level primes, which should be easier to get than the higher level primes.

That's just off the top of my head. Someone let me know if I missed anything.

Edit: Edited for typo.

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.... Yes.

In my games, I am so introducing druid terrorists. They shall all be Elves... With dreadlocks and those knit Jamaican styled beanies, and speak like stoned 70s hippie rejects! And they shall be strangely obsessed with fluffy little seals!

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The Lion Cleric wrote:

Sounds like it belongs in Pathfinder Unleashed. Where's the feat that if you tear up your PHB, you win the game?

(blatant TCG reference)

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Anzyr wrote:
Arachnofiend wrote:

I do like how it keys off the # of ranks in a skill. That's something I'd like to see more often.

...Granted, that's something I'd like to see more often in rogue talents, but still.

Yes, in that aspect it's actually really cool, more numbers should theoretically make getting a target prime number easier. But... wow. When do my martials get to use my ranks in Perception to do math and get True Seeing or my acrobatics to gain a miss chance?

You sir, have just given me something to work on to homebrew. +1 for you and arachnofiend.

Hey guys! I just found the second feat of the tree for this thing!:

It bumps the dice!

Makes me wonder how this works with Spell Perfection and/or Spontaneous Metafocus.

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Personally? This feat would have made a better Wizard archetype. Seriously. How can you sit there and NOT tell me that it's perfectly thematic of a mathematics-oriented wizard?

The only balancing factors of this feat are: the random factor that may or may not let you hit those 3 primes; the fact that if you fail, you lose the spell anyways; that it takes a full round action unless you sac 4 levels to keep it a standard.

I'd still probably use it on a sorcerer. Actually, I'd use it on an Oracle. I'd like to point out they only call out "Sorcerers and Bards" as increasing the casting time two steps, rather than all "spontaneous casters". So...

Enjoy your 2 free metamagic feats, Oracle!

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Challenge accepted... Maybe. I'll see about writing up a scene based on it after I wake up. 4 AM, need some sleep!

That said... That is some pretty darn fine art ya got there boyo. Makes me wish I could draw better xD.

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SAMAS wrote:
The problem is the idea that only spells can be awesome. That the Mundane has to be, well, mundane.

This pretty much sums it up. Well, that, and the idea that martials are only ever mundane. Mix those two together, and you've got the major preconceived notion that causes these kinds of threads and debates...

Personally, martials should be like super heros. Let the muggles be mundane, fighters should be treated like Captain America. Sure, Scarlet Witch can modify reality (God-Wizard Wish!), but, come on. Cap's kicking ass in all the most badass ways. You seriously tellin' me Cap's mundane?

(Edit: that last bit is more general rhetorical, and not directed at you SAMAS. Just so ya know)

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..... I... That...

And after I just posted how awesome Paizo was for the support and swag it gave to a transgender fan.... I come and find this....

... This company makes my mood swing more often than manic bi-polar disorder with a hair trigger.

I can't... Even begin to wrap my head around that. Remind me why I keep supporting these people?

Nah, that's not fair. Sins of the few don't reflect the many and all that jazz.

... Screw it. I need to go play some Brawl. Maybe Ganondorfing someone off the stage a few times'll cheer me up. I'll be back after I take a moment...

That's just... How the f... Someone's got a malfunctioning moral compass, and it aint us....

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Seems like every time I get upset with Paizo for some ruling via FAQ or Errata, nerfbat something into unplayability that doesn't deserve it/wasn't the problem, or just generally devs post something that I consider to be rather stupid (see the "because I say so" dodging questions of the blood drinker feat debacle going on)....

They turn around and do something like this. Just... Damn you Paizo for being so awesome. I'd like to see some other big company do this for one of their fans. They won't, mainly because they're "Profits and share holders first! Everyone else later!" types.

Just... Hurry up and take my money before the pendulum swings and I'm raging about the latest illogical debacle. xD

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"Your soul is MINE!"

Had a half-orc barbarian once, very broken common. Had a habit of making challenging enemy's skulls into ornaments (usually cod-pieces since everywhere else was full of other fetishes). After a particularly funny and unintentional intimidate check involving a rival half-elf, the line "You great foe! When battle over, happy ending!" while gesturing to the codpiece, this became his go-to battle cry.... "FOR THE HAPPY ENDING!"

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Pffft. Keep your folding chair. I only got one thing to say about it....


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I'm sensing some purposeful intent to derail the thread and be hostile here.

In any case, I can see where this thread is headed. Much as I'd like to stick around a help try to keep it on topic, it's starting to get a bit too heated in here for me to hold out much hope.

Comes from people thinking that someone's attacking their fave system. Knee-jerk, grab the bazooka, blast the tracks.

Wiggz, I'm writin' down what your group did and going to give that a try the next couple times around. Sounds like a pretty workable fix to me.

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Without getting into an edition war here...

I find the concept appealing... What I don't like was that in order to "Balance" everything, you were pretty much locked into your choices. Literally, after playing for a while, and looking very close at what everything did... It's all the same thing, across many of the classes. You weren't cookie cutters, but... Really... It was just a whole mess of the same stuff with different fluff and maybe a different damage type. My biggest gripe was the tiny number of abilities you get outside of utility powers.

I once had a guy tell me you could build more versatile and unique concepts in 4E than PF... It took everything I had to not laugh in his face.

Personally I prefer a breadth of options. Truly unique options. Which is why I like PF... At least until Archetypes started shanking other classes in the back and taking their stuff. At that point it became a major question of "Why play X anymore when Y can do it too, with all this other awesome stuff!"... Not merely from a desired power level stand point, but from the pure fact of I had a game where the rogue was seriously outclassed and incredibly unhappy with her character when the Bard was doing everything the Rogue was typically saved for, and BETTER! (Despite her being built with trap finding and disabling in mind.)

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I think it all boils down to the fact that, as written, the rules for the Pally's fall can be taken far too many different ways. In a system where even scratching your rump requires rules, you cannot be vague like the PF paladin is. Okay, so, you don't need rules to say "I'm scratching my tookus", but there have been several things that people were doing via house rules and handwave that suddenly cropped up as requiring feats to do. Unfortunately I cannot seem to recall them myself, but I know there was quite a big stink about it around here back at the time.

And I quote:

Code of Conduct: A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class features except proficiencies if she ever willingly commits an evil act.

Additionally, a paladin's code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Ex Paladins: A paladin who ceases to be lawful good, who willfully commits an evil act, or who violates the code of conduct loses all paladin spells and class features (including the service of the paladin's mount, but not weapon, armor, and shield proficiencies). She may not progress any further in levels as a paladin. She regains her abilities and advancement potential if she atones for her violations (see the atonement spell description in Spell Lists), as appropriate.

See? VAGUE! "And so forth"? This stuff does NOT belong in a system that seems to be trying to take anything you can think of and slap a set of rules on it. The simple addition of "and so forth" means that they are open for interpretation, and as this thread has proven, everyone has their own interpretation.

So, while you certainly CAN run a Paladin via RAW, there will be conflict between the player and the GM unless specific code rules are written for use.

The "willful" part only applies to committing an evil act. If you help a peasant, who then uses the result of that help to go knife their ex husband in the back one day... That's an evil end, and pop, fallen. Even if you were not willfully committing the act yourself.

Sad fact is, they're poorly written. The simple addition of "and so forth" violates the basic understanding that RULES are RULES, and NOT to be 'interpreted', for that could lead to much abuse. With the Paladin, this abuse comes in many of the forms commented within this thread.

So, yes. By RAW for a Pathfinder pally, you pretty much have to toss the rules out if you don't want to fall by yawning during the Chieftain's dull speech, or accidentally insulting their wife. Acting with honor depends on what honor you're following! In Tian Xia with Samurai, you'd pretty much never be able to walk away, surrender, or lose, because that would count as 'dishonor' to PF's bushido code. See my example above for helping those in need. If you see someone so much as punish a house servant with a few lashes, you're to "Punish" them for the abuse, which could be read as anywhere from a stern talking to and a serious fine, to flat out smiting them from the face of the planet. Hell, even picking up one of the rogue's daggers and using it, only to be surprised it has poison, would, by RAW, zap you of all your powers.

There is no "willfully" in those parts of the code. People an argue to hog heaven about the intent of the code, but the fact of how the code and ex-paladin sections are written are staring you right in the bleedin' face.

Which is why, as much as I would want to play a Paladin in PF (Stone Lords sound awesome!)... There would have to be some serious fixing going on by the DM.

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This one would best be saved until after the party finishes a quest or two, something noteworthy. Admittedly, this would be something that would start better at low-level, like, around level 2 or 3.

464. The Teller of Tales
You and your companions have arrived during [town name]'s spring festival after dealing with the threat that plagued the sleepy village. There's an old man sitting with his back to the bonfire, reading stories to the ring of children around him from a very large leather book in his lap. The tale you hear when you [approach/pass by], is a very detailed account of the quest your party had just finished. After this tale, he stands, and retreats to his tent. Later that night, as you all sleep, you dream of the massive leather tome... When you awake, you find yourselves in a world unlike any you've heard of... Except, as a child.

Basically, it's the plot hook/point/narration for a fairy tale campaign my GF and I are designing. Using all the old classics, mainly from the Brothers Grimm...

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This thread reminds me of a half-orc barbarian I made once... Had a habit of turning the skulls of his greatest challenges into cod pieces. At one point, we were facing the 'mirror evil party' the GM liked to use at the time.

Halfway through the fight, the barbarian grins at the enemy half-elf. "You great foe! When battle over, happy ending!" While gesturing toward his cod piece.

GM rolled a few dice... Then the half-elf ran screaming into the night. Apparently I made an intimidate check without even realizing it.

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Half-Orc Drunken Brute Barbarian, Half-Elf Drunken Master Monk, and a Dwarven alchemist with max ranks in Craft (Booze)....

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Imbicatus wrote:
You could use a Monk's Spade instead. It's a Martial weapon, it actually is a shovel, and it's a double weapon.

Also, just because I have to nit pick (big lover of Wu Xia films here).

No, it's not a shovel. Not after a certain point anyway. Which is where I assume PF's version sits.


Yeah, no, love that back story man. Almost fell out of my chair at it. I'm dying to hear how the game runs with him in it.

Should've figured the Shoveler. Love that freaking movie.

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I tend to play whatever floats my boat at the time. So, yeah, I do it regularly. And, I've never felt underpowered.

Then again, not only do I get creative with what I do, but my groups have generally had campaigns that aren't DPR focused.

I still have fun, because I just don't give a flyin' frag grenade about how many kills I rack up (seriously, Pathfinder isn't a freaking FPS, there aren't any leader boards, WTF do you care about getting the last hit on something!? Attack the wizard that's finishing the evil ritual, not the mook with 1 hp left that I've been soloing!).

Only time I didn't have fun was when I was playing an inquisitor, and the GM ruled that Called Shot + True Shot to the head = auto death, because the cleric was a whiny little *deep breath* that wanted to one-shot the big bad of that particular dungeon on round two. Oh, and this last one where the GM introduced a ton of house rules to turn Pathfinder into some weird Warhammer 40K/Star Trek/Serenity hybrid, equipped his Orks with an I-Win button (bomb that blew the ship if they started losing), and an impenetrable shield vs ranged attacks (and I was a gunslinger). On the other hand, those are due to house rules, not class mechanics...

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It always surprises me how many people attack threads like these about non-god-of-DPR builds with what is, in effect, "You're having badwrongfun!"... I thought the advice forums were supposed to help people with their build, not bash them like some elitist MMO player VS a n00b that put a talent point in the 'wrong tree'.

That said....

The Alchemist crossbowman is a very, very fun build. Explosive Missile + Directed Bomb = much, much fun. (Far as I can tell, they work together, because I don't happen to see any asterisks next to them)

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Bandw2 wrote:
I'd say no... unless they can smell light.

Dude, my players are going to hate you. I'm gonna home brew a light smelling/eating monster now.

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Speaking of... I'd like to quote someone from another thread, and I have a question about it..

In modern D&D, character death is viewed as a failure on the part of the DM. Very different than the old days where surviving to "Name Level" was actually a big deal

When the heck did this happen? I've always run and played with the assumption that character death would be a very real possibility. Thus, Rule 2 in my games (Expect to die, Horribly/Stupid plans lead to stupid deaths).

Maybe that's why I get so bored I keep jumping characters these days? I may not sacrifice combat effectiveness, but as games continue to be easy, I keep making characters that are easier and easier to kill...

Hell, I enjoy my characters dieing. Gives some fantastic story potential! Let the GM raise my fighter was a Death Knight or maybe something soulless. I'll come back with a character that's a member of my last one's family, and is questing to save their soul from some archfiend or something.

All I know is... I hate when my characters die doing some awesome martyr thing to save the day... And the DM just randomly revives me without asking me. THAT seriously peeves me.

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Pan wrote:
This illustrates the combat as war mentality real well. The party shouldnt assume every encounter will be an apropriate challenge for them. Either you risk death by trying to even the odds, or you leave be and find someone your own size.

True, but many I've gamed with recently seem to think that way. Thus my 'expect to die' rule, which I'm paraphrasing when I say it like that. I have explanations after every rule, which in this one's case, is "Dumb things lead to dumb deaths, including but not limited to: Taking on a monster you can't beat, insulting a despotic royal and sleeping with his wife, and trying to find out what properties black powder has when introduced to a dragon's stomach with the Spark spell, among others"... Live, lived examples, one and all...

I actually love when I'm playing and the GM throws something huge we can't beat at us. Means I run the hell away and have something to work towards to beat.

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DM Under The Bridge wrote:
Haladir wrote:
Artemis Moonstar wrote:
That said, I wasn't sure 21 years would qualify me as an 'old timer' for purposes of this thread. Regardless, I posted anyways.
Ya may be a yung'un, but I like the cut of yer jib! Welcome aboard!

Lol, are you an old-timer if you started extremely young, but have actually been playing for a very long time (20 years), but are not yet old?


Child soldier in a dungeon

Lol, good question. I'll just operate under the impression of 'old timer' being someone from 2nd or earlier for purposes of this thread. That said, I get mistaken for 30s or higher all the time, I've grayed early! I'm 'skunked' at 25, and my back bloody creaks, don't get me started on mah knees. For a gamer nerd, I've had too active a life >_<! (lots of recreational sports/martial arts injuries/strains).

In the mean time... I just recalled an amusing anecdote. At least part of it...

AD&D 2nd, Forgotten Realms setting... Playing an Elven Thief (Whom my Paizo forum handle is named after). I can't recall what of my parent's home brew campaigns we were playing, but it was me, me mum, my old man, and an old family friend Steve. (Side track: Good gods these three could run some freaking games. Their casts were HUGE! Ten characters a piece was actually COMMON for them, I can't even wrap my head around it to this day! /Side track).

For some reason, we wind up in Elminster's tower, getting debriefed/conscripted to help deal with some extraplanar threat. One of Steve's more prankster types winds up lifting up Elminster's robe to see what kind of tricks he's got under there.

At which point my thief (remember I was about five at this point), who had been trying his damnedest to find something he could pocket the entire time, looks over at him and goes "That's just childish!"

Apparently, a five year old telling a grown man in his late twenties the actions of his character were childish was funny as hell.

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Holy flying monkies of doom. Who knew we had someone like Dr. D on the boards? My hat's off to you sir, Thief has always been awesome (and always my 'home' class when I get burned by the other ones).

That said... I did not know they made a Return to the Tomb of Horrors... I've always wanted to try it.

Was it Tomb of Horrors or Temple of Elemental Evil that had the Sphere of Annihilation in the gargoyle's mouth that I hear joked about so much?

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Mikaze wrote:
Artemis Moonstar wrote:

For that matter... Maybe someone could clue me in on this because I might be missing it, but...

Where the hell are the Amazonians? Where are the tall, buff, beautiful babes that can kick Valeros' ass? Every female I've seen, even those with muscle tone, are slender, curvy, and half the time pretty skinny.

Buffest female I've seen is Imrijka, and she's a half-orc. That gets no bonus points from me (despite the fact I do actually find Imrijka pretty attractive. Then again, I love a woman that can kick my ass).

Amiri the barbarian iconic? Most of the time, she's no more muscled than Ezren.

... Actually, that was pointless, because Mythic Wizard Ezren hulked out.

Muscle chicks need some love too man!

Besides noting that Imrijka and Valeros are the Internet's official Pathfinder couple(YOU CAN'T PROVE ME WRONG, I ASKED THE INTERNET AND IT SAID IT WAS TRUE)...

There's Holomog, which I swear seems to be getting pushed a bit more and more as possibly getting explored in the not too distant future(I hope).

Basically, imagine it as this:

A matriarchal nation of African Amazons who ride dinosaurs, locked in conflict with Geb, the largest necrocracy on Golarion, and Droon, a nation of lizardfolk who ride dinosaurs.

Bad. Ass.

(Some folks have also voiced hopes that Holomog might be home to a female equivalent of the gay male-oriented Iridian Fold, which also needs some more exploration in setting material(and recently got a good bit of exposure in Redemption Engine and the webfiction "Boar and Rabbit" on the blog here))

edit-ALSO, almost every Shoanti woman ever. :)

I'm aware of the Imrijka + Valeros coupling (I've seen the fan *cough*art*cough*.

That said... Good to know. At some point, I might actually be able to see these females of which you speak, lol.

@Todd: Agreed. The fact that Paizo is doing anything at all with this kind of stuff is *bleep!*ing amazing.

Still hoping for a total-amazonian and a soft-featured slender male pair of iconics though... ^_^.

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Mikaze wrote:
We need more paladins of Lymnieris. ;)

Yes we do, lol...

For that matter... Maybe someone could clue me in on this because I might be missing it, but...

Where the hell are the Amazonians? Where are the tall, buff, beautiful babes that can kick Valeros' ass? Every female I've seen, even those with muscle tone, are slender, curvy, and half the time pretty skinny.

Buffest female I've seen is Imrijka, and she's a half-orc. That gets no bonus points from me (despite the fact I do actually find Imrijka pretty attractive. Then again, I love a woman that can kick my ass).

Amiri the barbarian iconic? Most of the time, she's no more muscled than Ezren.

... Actually, that was pointless, because Mythic Wizard Ezren hulked out.

Muscle chicks need some love too man!

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Okay, this thread would be WAY too long for me to read and reply to tonight...

All I'm gonna say before I finish reading the rest of this thread, is that I too am rather disappointed with the lack of hot male eye-candy, and even hot male romantic interests in the adventure paths. Out of the material I have, only Socothbenoth is mentioned as a hyper-sexed male, though Book of the Damned 2 alludes that his isn't so much sex as other vices.

As a bi guy, I'm actually kind of depressed about it. Not that I'm looking to turn Pathfinder into the Book of Erotic Fantasy or anything, but I'd actually like to have the option of some maleXmale romance in some published stuff. Maybe I'm just picky, but my characters have never gone for that 'rugged' type (unless the 'rugged' was a battle-scarred amazonian female, but that's a whole different 'rugged' altogether). Every supposed attractive male I've even heard of in paizo published material is of the 'handsomely rugged' territory, with the exception of elves. What about those fair-faced kimono wearing Tians!? Nope, 'rugged' seems to be the only attractive male descriptor Paizo can use.

It's not a big gripe, it's not something I'd quit buying Pathfinder stuff over (though I have slowed down a considerably). It is something, however, that has made me stop bothering with NPC relationships in an adventure path. I'm bored with female NPCs, because they always turn out the same kind of sexualized female. Always goes pretty much the same route.

On that note: My girlfriend also is annoyed that there's no real potential males in most APs. For example! She managed to charm Orik Vancaskerkin in RotRL:AE (Anniversary Edition) into joining the party as an NPC (later became her Cohort)... Yet, while he's got a nice description of 'ruggedly handsome' (There it is again!).... He doesn't look that great in his picture.

The only hot males we've seen in the actual art, would be Seltiyel, the Not-eldritch Knight/The Magus, and the Alchemist whose name I've forgotten (even then, it's only his main picture, all the rest of the art kind of falls short). Every other guy's kind of... Bland... And generic, actually... They look alike most of the time...

So... I think I've rambled with this, but to sum it up... We need more equality with the sexualism of male and female characters and creatures in Pathfinder. Just my 2 cents.

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If you want unkillable.... Go Orc Fighter with the orc's racial FCB, Unbreakable Fighter. Probably pick up Guardian for mythic. Make sure you max out your con as much as you can. Get Deathless Initiate and Deathless Master as soon as you can.

Laugh as they bring you to -47 hp, then bash their face in.

Seriously.... Orc's FCB: +2 to the amount over con they need to deal to kill you.

Oh, and for S&Gs, Born Alone feat to get temporary hit points = your con bonus, and Tenacious Survivor for the capability of being healed back to life with healing spells when you are DEAD within a number a rounds = your con bonus...

I've played this character (minus the mythic).... It made my DM cry when I single handedly stood on a narrow mountain path and blocked an enemy army's advance while the rest of the party was back at the fort preparing for the enemy to get there. Granted, I kind of min/maxed for AC, Saves, and HP, but still... The orc lasted for a full day and night (thank you lucky rolls and pots), until reinforcements arrived right as he died.

Cleric healed him back up before the 9 rounds were up, and he popped right up with two negative levels and waded right back into the fray.

Needless to say, he was later mercilessly assassinated in his sleep with a vorpal scythe (Urgathoa's cult was not pleased), but he went down in the setting's history. It was glorious.

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Something that works for me, I'm not sure if it'll work for everyone else, but...

My dice used to completely hate me. Most of them are left overs from my parents (They've been playing D&D since 1st ed). I used to keep them all in a single Crown Royal bag, and d20s absolutely loathed me (ironically, d4s and d6s, on the other hand, loved this treatment). After about a year of horrible rolling, where I just figured it was my own luck got lost with my 1st ever dice sets (a very nice black and orange one for my dwarf, and a black and green one for my elf), I asked my mum how she always managed to roll fantastically.

The answer was so simple I face palmed myself thrice. When you've got multiple sets of dice, keep them separated, and loyal to characters. Don't just switch 'em out.

So, I did just that. Pulled out the old plastic tool bits box (the ones that stand upright with the drawers for screws and bolts and stuff), and separated them all back into the box. From there, I've assigned them to character types, personalities, or race/class combinations, since I never seem to have a particular game last more than three or four sessions before whatever group I'm in gets bored or upset with their characters (and instead of fixing or changing, they just scrap the whole darn thing).

To my surprise, they've been rolling better. At least until the box broke and I have to use the crown royal bag again recently. I hope to one day get some sort of dividing box again.

That said, if you're using inherited dice (like I am, and I shall likely pass them down to any gamer kids I may eventually have, thus turning them into family heirlooms), try to stick to the character types originally associated with them. They seem to like sticking with what feels familiar, curmudgeony old things.

Also... I've recently purchased some new d20s (well, like four years ago). The elders seem to either not care, or feel threatened, depending on what the old fellow was used for.

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Haven't read more than just the OP, don't have the time, but here's my 2 cents. (A more up-to-date 2 cents shall come later when I've read the entire thread). So, yeah, sorry if i'm totally late to the party with the following.

It sounds like you're kind of misunderstanding how terribly badass the fighter's bonus feats are, and the whole point (far as I'm concerned/aware), is being totally fraggin' awesome in combat. Specifically, close-quarters combat.

In my games, I've done a bit of consolidating on feats. Power Attack, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, and Weapon Finesse are now inherent to the system themselves (with CR getting replaced with some other feat that does effectively the same thing). This opens up a TON of feats for the fighter to get to do their thing.
From there, I've also determined that any Improved or Greater feat chains get rolled up into their basic feats. TWF being the prime example, soon as you meet the requirements for ITWF, you're runnin' with that instead. Meet GTWF? Bust out those three extra attacks baby.

This basically allows fighters to do their fighter thing, by getting excessive amounts of feats. To me, there is nothing more beautiful than watching a Fighter perform his ridiculous feat dance of death through a battlefield, utilizing every choice and actually being effective at it. I know my players absolutely love it, and actually play and do well with fighters.

Effective is the key word here. In my experience, Fighters sort of sag at higher levels if they want to do anything particularly cool with their feats that doesn't require two or less. Yeah, sure, I finally got exotic proficiency katana with greater two wep fighting and improved critical /focus/some strike! Big bloody whoop when the dragon just eats me since I had to put all my feats toward that set up! Meanwhile, Mr. Wizard over there blasts the dragons to smithereenies with Mr. Fighter still inside of it.

If the fighter's big thing is supposed to be his bonus feats (which it seems like to me), then the simple fact that he has to WASTE so many of them on silly feat taxes doesn't constitute means he's being held back from what he was meant to do.

1) The fighter's extra feats don't mean less now, it means they get more feats with which to hit things.

2) What is he gonna do with em? Actually get some defensive feats as well as his offensive feats, or maybe some control feats like Spell Breaker or something!

IME, it's not that fighter's design around feats is hurting the game, it's that the way the feats are designed are hurting the fighter.

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I used to wear pants like you, until I took an arrow in the knee...

Which is why I now wear my Loin Cloth of Holding. Next time I take an arrow to the knee, it'll be just the knee!

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I always viewed Adamantine as a dull, light-absorbing black. Mithril, for it's part, was a bright silver with a blue sheen.

That said, I shall now make all Adamantine in my game pink (which used to be saved for a special homebrew copper that radiated anti-magic). Thus, the big-bad general of the latest massive orc uprising shall be clad in Hot Pink Adamantine! Fear the Pink Orc!

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I'm a little late to the party, and I've generally only skimmed, but...

Was this decision based off PFS or the published adventure paths? If so, why not just ban the thing, or put an addendum to the PFS rules that the MoMS can't pick it up or something?

Basic question is... Why smash a feat into the ground like this and punish those of us who don't use the AP or play PFS, based off a 'standardized' set of rules that bastardizes what's in the rule books anyway?

True, MoMS getting it at level 1 or 2 is OP... Which only lasted until the lower mid levels, balanced out around mid, and shouldn't be a problem at like, level 9+.

Or maybe I'm just a cruel GM who actually makes things challenging for my players. 'Oh noez, there's more than one monster attacking me with more than one attack! GMCHEAT!'.... Seriously, if Crane was such a problem, just throw more mooks at the guy! Problem freaking solved!

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Handy Haversacks. Need I say more?

I love playing 18+ strength characters equipped with Muleback Cords and Heavyload Belts. I always have high STR characters have these as backups in his inventory.

Heavyload Belt:

Aura faint transmutation; CL 1st
Slot belt; Price 2,000 gp; Weight 3 lbs.

This wide leather is held together with two strands of oxen skin threaded through holes on each end.

The belt’s wearer is affected as though subject to a permanent ant haul spell.

Craft Wondrous Item, ant haul; Cost 1,000 gp.

Muleback Cords:

Aura faint transmutation; CL 3rd
Slot shoulders; Price 1,000 gp; Weight 1/4 lb.

These thick leather cords wrap around the wearer’s biceps and shoulders. When worn, they make the wearer’s muscles appear larger than normal. The wearer treats his Strength score as 8 higher than normal when determining his carrying capacity. This bonus does not apply to combat, breaking items, or any other Strength-related rolls, it only contributes to the amount of equipment or material the wearer can carry.

Craft Wondrous Item, bull's strength; Cost 500 gp.

Ant Hault:

The target's carrying capacity triples. This does not affect the creature's actual Strength in any way, merely the amount of material it can carry while benefiting from this spell. It also has no effect on encumbrance due to armor. If the creature wears armor it still takes the normal penalties for doing so regardless of how much weight the spell allows it to carry.

I think I calculated it out with a 20 str character at being able to drag something like 15000 pounds or something. Just put all the loot, dead allies, and that dragon carcass on the sled, and I'm draggin' it back to town.

Oooh, I just thought of something... Put those two magic items on a pack mule or something xD.

Edit: Need those boulders moved? Check. Need that felled ancient oak rolled out of the road? Check. Need to carry a near TPK + Gear and Loot back to a healer? Check.

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Aww ^-^. Ashiel, you're too awesome. I think some of the best gaming chat I've had (or read) in my two decades of gaming comes from you (top ten!). I'm still around, for the moment. I may lose internet temporarily in two days X_X.

PS: Sweet. I've been swamped with other things and haven't been able to even think about expanding the list myself. Been trying to pound out these three story commissions before I lose net, and life has seen fit to smack my creative matrix with the stress stick. Plus, Pathfinder is fantastic procrastination material!

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My GF's a gamer, though not as much as I am. Still, she absolutely loves gaming, though not as much as our free-form RP story making. Which is how we met BTW, free-form RP online.

That said, she's also into card games (went second at a UFS Pro Tour circuit a while back while I got 16th), and video games... Anime, manga, and so forth as well. This otaku guy got lucky and got himself an otaku gal. Been together for almost 5 years now, and we're still goin' strong.

For myself, gaming's a fairly big part. It's about the only thing that works to kill my stress these days, with the exception of cuddling up with my girl and a good anime (something about her just soothes me like nothing else). It's also a fairly big portion of my 'fun'. Sports, cars, and so forth, can sod off. Give me a controller, some cards, or some dice, and I'm a happy guy.

That said, my first few GFs were in the 'Supportive, but uninterested' category. It works, for those that can do that. I, however, currently cannot get enough of my woman, and when neither of us are in a particularly foul isolationist mood, thoroughly enjoy as much time and activity as I can get with her that I can (fortunately, we live together, so I get time with her quite often, even if it's just being in the same room). If she weren't that interested, I'd be a little distressed, but luckily that's not the case ^_^.

I wish you luck!

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Hmm... a "wait, whut?" moment in game...

For my girlfriend, she claims thus: In Bastards of Erebus, we were stealthily raiding the bandit camp. I'm not sure if it was in the book or if our GM was just weird, but two of the tieflings were having some boy-boy relations in one of the abandoned buildings when her character, the fetchling rogue, failed her stealth check to sneak up on 'em...
Before they attack, they do the whole "Who are you!? What are you doing here!?"... She asks if she can join in (one seemed interested, the other smacked him upside the head). Combat winds up happening, and we slaughter the both of them (I can imagine one saying to the other in hell 'this is why I wear armor all the time, even during THAT time!')...
So, we go to the main building. Rest of us hide while she tries to pick the lock, and fails. She has one round to hide. She used the fetchling SLA to turn into one of the two tieflings. Door opens up. "What do you want?" "My boyfriend left me!"...
Long story (of the rest of it) short, it worked, she made 30 gold off the gambling table, and got us a lay of the land, and a key.

For myself? I claim this: In a home brew campaign, I was playing a really buff dwarf grappler, decked out with as much AC, HP, Strength, and CMB/CMD as I could muster... We wind up fighting in a mountain stronghold (My dwarf's home, actually, and part of his personal story arc). I manage to bowl through everyone to reach the casty BBEG drow that had taken over the stronghold. A small chase scene ensues, with the party dealing with the second in command anti-paladin, and the minions to prevent them from getting to me as I chased the drow up the tower.
Confrontation at the top! Spells get slung, my dwarf takes some damage, and shrugs it off like the arms of so many exhausted bar wenches. Get right up on him, and grapple success!
But wait, something's wrong. This drow knew this prodigal dwarven son, and knew his weaknesses! Utilizing a spell, the drow began to siphon his life as the spiked dwarf of doom was crushing the life out of him. Worse, the spell kept him locked around the drow! What to do?
"I drag him over to the edge." Success on the roll. Another turn passes. The drow laughs at the weakening dwarf, taunting him with the fact he will die, and the drow will forever own this stronghold.
"I'm locked around him, meaning I couldn't let go if I wanted too, right?" "Yeah." "Alright then... Flint takes the drow, and leaps off the tower with him."
Thanks to a lucky roll, the damn priest goes splat beneath the spiked full-plate clad Flint, very squishy like, in the middle of the battle between the other PCs and the priest's minions. Combat pauses as both sides are stunned. Then, grunting and groaning, Flint staggers to his feet with one hp left, bits of priest flesh, bone, and brain matter dripping and flaking off his spiked armor.
"Alright... Who's next?"
With a successful intimidate check, the foes wet themselves and either surrendered, or ran screaming into the tunnels.... It was a good day.

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I blame Cosmo for not knowing who this Cosmo person is. He should do more talk shows, it would make them more interesting. Which I shall also blame him for.

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Sup William. Glad to see other folks are as perturbed by this phenomena as I am.

Here are some examples that made me do a double take, then go '... So, why?'.



Flavor: The best spies are like chameleons, but not only can they
change their appearances to fit the situation, they can also
change their personalities, allegiances, and even loves
if that’s what it takes to achieve their clandestine goals.
Spies are the ultimate manipulators, and even those who
commission their services sometimes find that they’ve
merely served the spies’ own interests.

Mechanics: 1/2 level on bluff checks to deceive someone, and poison use.... Yes, rogue talents for fulfilling everything else, but there's nothing specifically in the archetype fitting the 'change appearance, personalities, etc'. Would've been better with the bonus to disguise IMO.


Flavor: Some rogues are not content with just disabling traps—
they love to build them, finding a captivating beauty in
the turning of gears and the slither of ropes over pulleys.
The trapsmith may have started out putting together traps
in order to better understand how to disable them, but for
most, it’s long since gone beyond that—they now relish the
challenge of creating the perfect combat machine.

Mechanics: It's all about not setting off traps, and bypassing them. Absolutely nothing on actually building them. (I'm a trap lover, so this one irks me to no end)



Many barbarians distrust magic. While most just shy
away from magic, others focus their rage on users of such
foul arts. These barbarians are naturally distrusting,
and develop keen senses to protect them from harm. A
superstitious barbarian has the following class features.

Mechanics:... So, they get a bonus to AC in the surprise round... And they get better vision as they level up... What is this.... I don't... wut? Yeah, ok, better vision for the 'develop keen senses' part. Where's the whole whole 'distrust of magic' in the archetype mechanics itself?

And that's just from the APG in 2 classes... Ok, well, yeah... Maybe I'm being picky, but in my mind, if an archetype is written a certain way... It should actually give you something concerning that, in the core mechanics of the archetype itself. Not in something selectable, for those that have Arcanas, Talents, Discoveries, etc.

Trophy Hunter Ranger.... Get no proficiencies with guns... Hrrrmmmmmmmm....

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Rynjin wrote:
Durinor wrote:
Whale_Cancer wrote:
The Elusive Trout wrote:
I hate it when the player next to me hasn't bathed properly and will say so to his or her face.
You are a true hero of our hobby (no sarcasm intended).
In the real world this is called being rude.
So is refusing to bathe and then sitting at a small table with somebody for multiple hours.

Never use the swimming pool at a gaming con... It turns into a bath.

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I build characters in my off time, usually off the wall non-optimized concepts.

I love dwarves, kobolds, goblins, and orcs.

When I GM, I like to passively try and kill my players... Characters. (Sphere of annihilation in a gargoyle's mouth anyone?)

I am addicted to traps, both as a PC and when GMing.

I'm addicted to poison, no matter how much it sucks late-game.

I'm in the process of totally bastardizing the Pathfinder rules with a metric ton of house rules, and stuff from 3.5 Unearthed Arcana (spell points, combat facing w/ shield facing, hex grid, variable modifiers, Armor as DR, class defense bonus, among others).

I absolutely LOATHE distracted gamers, and punish them severely when GMing (put that mother @$*^ing gameboy AWAY!).


Oh, and I find 4e fascinating. As much as I hate the whole power mechanics of it... I can't stop myself from dying to play my teleporter warlock. I am in LOVE with the idea of offensive teleportation effects.

I also think that Paladins should be renamed to 'Templar', and their alignment must match their deity. Class abilities adjust accordingly.

-My girlfriend's list-
I hate magic items being sold in stores, though I love magic weapons being sold in stores.

I hate point buy systems.

I think everyone should get a free 18 before adding racial bonuses

I think monks are broken.

I hate archetypes that dabble in the affairs of other classes.

I believe only rogues should have trap finding (this might fall into the above).

I believe characters should not chose to do everything (our last group tends to have their characters try and do everything the other characters can do, only better. Spotlight whores).

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Catfolk Hunter iz in ur PF, stalk'n' ur BBEGs...

..... Couldn't resist that old thing.

Seriously though, I'd love to see the Female Dwarven Swashbuckler and the Female Amazonian-type Elf Bloodrager. Muscle Babes FTW.

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Wow this has been necro'd a lot... Glad it did, or I'd never have seen the FAQ ruling. In the mean time....

I've pretty much gotta say I'm very disappointed with Paizo... Or at least whatever team handles the FAQ. Put out an archetype that's far off the mark of it's actual intention, doesn't quite stack up with what it's offering, and in effect becomes more or less a waste of space.

Would it seriously have broken, or at least unbalanced, the game if Massive Weapons worked the way it was originally intended? judging from all the number crunching I've seen on it, it definitely seems like it's considerably less than what others can throw around at equivalent levels.

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It may be my play group and luck, but in my experiences, dwarves are very much a PITA to kill. I've played as one a few times, played in a group with a dwarven sorcerer, and GMed for a party with two dwarves. So.... Avoiding a particularly long series of anecdotes, mainly due to too much time passing since my last game with a dwarf to recall fine details, I'll just say that dwarves are, in play, some of the toughest, meanest, most terrifying SOBs in the core races... and quite a bit of the ARG too.

My dwarf, specced for background and plotline (primarily centered around defense, base fighter -> Stalwart (Dwarven!) Defender), not only outlasted but out-obliterated most encounters. Above and beyond our human barbarian, aasimar sorcerer, tiefling oracle, and ifrit gunslinger (total initiative fiend). Most of them were optimized to the point of near munchkinism. Now, perhaps that was just my (potentially) superior knowledge of battlefield tactics (and what kinds of combat tactics our GM ran (total IRL war fanatic)), perhaps the other players weren't that great at prioritizing what's what in combat (despite the fact that all of them besides me and one other were only really playing for the combat), but the results were the same. Arngier Blackstone trounced encounters through sheer survivability when most fell.

As an aside, this was in a home game. I have yet to manage to drag my sorry rump over to a PFS game, as much as I would like to.

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