if you are trying to examine something like a dead body, looking for defensive wounds, broken bones or puncture wounds what skill would you use for that?
would it be perception?
what would the dc be to find a puncture wound the size of a dime in the back of someones head if they have a full head of hair?
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if you are trying to examine something like a dead body, looking for defensive wounds, broken bones or puncture wounds what skill would you use for that?
would it be perception?
what would the dc be to find a puncture wound the size of a dime in the back of someones head if they have a full head of hair?
Most adventures that I've seen use a Heal check to examine a person or body. It's kind of a knowledge skill as well as a utility skill. Knowing how to heal someone would require knowledge of what is ailing them, and that's the tie-in that I would use.
The puncture wound might be a perception check, but if it's the size of a dime, some sort of damage had to have occured to the hair on the person's head - even if it's just being blood-soaked. So even then, I'd still consider it a Heal check.
Edit: Even if you decide to use perception to find hard-to-see wounds, precedent will generally require a Heal check to identify the cause of the wound.
Eg: Perception - You find a dime-sized hole in the back of the man's head. Heal - The hole shows evidence of a puncture wound, and based on the inflammation around the exposed tissue, it looks like venom was involved; something like what a stinger of a giant scorpion might cause.
thank you for the fast response, do you have an opinion on what the dc to find the wound would be?
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Heal
"Forensics : You can use this skill to determine how long a body has been dead, cause of death, and similar forensic studies. The DC for these checks are typically high."
Edit: Source - 3.0 PHB
"Heal involves familiarity with anatomy and physiology. This skill can be applied to forensic matters, such as determining how long a body has been dead or ascertaining the general cause of death. Some DMs may allow a check against a high DC to determine detailed information about the cause of death, such as from examining a stab wound to determine the height of the attacker."
Edit: Source - Defenders of the Faith
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"You can use the Heal skill to determine what killed a dead
creature. The difficulty of this task depends on the nature
of the death itself, as shown on the table below.
Cause of Death / DC
Physical wounds / 0
Environmental (fire, suffocation, etc.) / 5
Spell with visible effects / 10
Poison / 15
Spell with no visible effects / 20
Each day that passes between the time of the creature’s
death and the time the examination is made increases
the DC of the Heal check to determine the cause of
death by 5.
Action: Making a Heal check to determine the cause
of a creature’s death takes 10 minutes.
Try Again: Yes, but it takes 10 more minutes for each
check."
Edit: Source - Complete Adventurer
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@Snobi: May I ask for the source of that description? It's not in my PF core book, but that's exactly what I've always considered Heal to be, regardless.
@Northbrb: A dime-sized puncture wound is still pretty big, and it would cause damage to any hair covering the original surface. I'd consider it almost automatic, but if you want to assign a check, make it easy - DC 10-15.
the big reason im asking is that i have a game i am going to br running where there are these assassins who hide their kills.
the assassin was paid to frame another person so he put poison in a wine bottle the victim would drink from but the actual mode of killing is a small spike in the back of the head.
what i am trying to figure out is how hard it would be for the players to discover this wound, ideally they wont and assume the poison killed him but if they do it will take them down a different path which i have planned for in the off-chance it does occur.
so i am trying to set a dc for them to find the wound if they look hard enough, the victim died within an hour of the party finding him and he is sitting slumped in his chair. the assassin is a much higher level than the players and is very good at what he does.
maybe the weapon should make a smaller hole, maybe half as big as a dime.
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Well, I see what you're trying to do. Just make the spike smaller. Think pencil-sized or so. Then you can ramp the DC up some, although you would still need some way to keep the blood from flowing. Maybe make it where the assassin actually leaves the spike fully in the victim's head or something.
Edit: @Snobi - Thanks for the sources. I looked in the PF Core and my 3.5 PHB; which explains why I didn't see it. It sucks they didn't copy over at least the general Forensics ability, but most players I've gamed with just assume Heal can do that anyway.
that doesn't sound half bad, i think i will do that, thanks for the help.