Sounds good so far, though I can definitely see, in at least some cases and with some people, a four-hour session not being enough to complete both the main mission and the now vaguer faction mission goals, even more than it is now.
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I am not worried a bit about this new direction possibly adding time to the scenarios. With the changes to focus on 6-player tables, new faction parameters, etc., I am excited to see how this all plays out. I trust Mike/Mark (and the rest of Paizo) to incorporate all of the changes in such a way to heighten the "fun" factor while not creating problems for the GM to meet the time expectations. Rather than get concerned about the negatives, which we cannot possibly evaluate without seeing the whole picture, I say, relax. Let's just focus on the positive changes that appear to be on the way. My advice, come to GenCon and experience them for yourself, in real time. Then, after the con, we can all come back here and applaud the improvements or blast them for their mistakes. :-)
Game On!!!
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Mark and I are very cognizant about the length of scenarios and 4-5 hour time slots. As the coordinator for Paizo Con and Gen Con, this is something I have to be very aware of as well.
Mark and I have discussed and we will be changing some of the fundamentals of scenarios (such as possibly lessening the number of combat encounters and balancing those with roleplaying encounters). We aren't quite ready to disclose all of our plans in regard to scenario changes but we are very aware that we need to make sure they still fit in the same time as current scenarios do.
@Dragnmoon, yes these will be more intricate than they have ever been in the past. It will create a little more work for Mark and I to track the progress of faction goals but it is well worth it to provide a better Society experience.
@ Eric, yes it will leave some additional work for the GMs. But, it will also provide some GM fiat that has been requested by a large part of our fanbase. GMs will not be stuck following strict guidelines to have PCs complete faction goals. GMs can now work with players to incorporate faction goals much more smoothly into the scenario's plotline.
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Mark and I have discussed and we will be changing some of the fundamentals of scenarios (such as possibly lessening the number of combat encounters and balancing those with roleplaying encounters). (and other good stuff)
Woohoo! Thank you! I have a 5-star review to write for Gods Market Gamble, but keep getting stuck on one combat that I think it would have been better without.
Yes, allowing more time for a bit more free-form roleplaying would be appreciated. The scenarios I've been in have generally shuffled quickly from one combat encounter to the next with little inter-character roleplay encouraged. Sort of left a bad taste in my mouth but if I accept that a scenario is X pages long and you only have Y hours to complete it, and Z number of combat encounters, I can see how a PFS GM may feel a bit stressed to move things along quickly.
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Sounds great guys! I love the idea of leaving what to do up to the player and GM interaction. It sounds like the system will be more individual achievement for your faction with multiple people in the same faction coming up with separate ways to achieve there objective. Will all players in a faction still get the prestige if one member completes an opportunity while the others twiddle their thumbs?
P.S. Are we there yet?
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At first glance, this sounds good, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.
But... (you knew that was coming, right?) I have two concerns.
These goals will be clear and will be disseminated to all members of a given faction by the faction heads at the start of the season. Make sure all your Pathfinder Society characters are registered on paizo.com and that your email address and privacy settings are updated before August so you'll be sure to get any missives your faction leader may send. All Pathfinder Society scenario designers will receive an overview of the factions' plans in order to incorporate opportunities to achieve these goals into their respective scenarios.
This just seems odd. What are you going to do? Email the faction goals to players with a character in that faction? Don't GMs need to know all 10 of them, and aren't we trying to encourage more people to become GMs? And most players have more than one PC in different factions. Also, what about PCs created after the season starts and the info has been sent? Treating this like secret information that should only be sent to a PC of the appropriate faction just seems like a bad idea.
I say throw it all into the next edition of the Guide to Organized Play, so everyone can see all the faction goals. Or make it a free downloadable document for everyone, if it would make the Guide too big to include there. The point is, I think trying to keep the faction goals secret will do more harm than good, so just distribute them to everyone.
My second concern comes from Mike's followup post:
Mark and I are very cognizant about the length of scenarios and 4-5 hour time slots.
Am I the only one who noticed the contradiction in this sentence? I'm not the most experienced convention attendee around here, but from what I've seen, convention slots aren't 4-5 hours. They're 4 hours. If a scenario last 4 hours and 1 minute, then it's already running late. In the home PFS game I usually play in, it's not a big deal if things run long. But at a convention, given the limited time to run out for food between games, update your character from the chronicle you just gained, or for GMs to prepare for their next game, running over 4 hours would be bad.
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I approve of this awesome plan good sirs.
But a thought. What if you have multiple characters all with different factions? EX: I have characters that play Andorian, Silver Crusade, and Cheliax. That means I would know three different missions, from three different groups. That would kinda get a little messy really quick wouldn't it?
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This just seems odd
While making the information public perhaps in the Guide or through blog posts, is probably a good idea, but I like the personal emails from the faction leadership. Makes the game a bit more "alive" and can only enhance the role-playing.
Am I the only one who noticed the contradiction in this sentence?
I think you're looking at it from the wrong perspective. Convention time slots vary from three hours on one extreme to six hours on the other, but the average is 4-5 hours. Often, the "official" slot is four hours, with a one-hour break between sessions. That tends to be partially used by GM's to account for the paperwork, buying/selling, clearing conditions, or tying up the conclusion. It is not unusual to see slots run lightly longer than four hours. There is just too much table variation to say that all scenarios will (or should) hold to a strict four-hour slot. Even still, that does not mean scenarios are written with the intent of running longer than four hours, sometimes, it just happens.
Director of Brand Strategy
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Oh, now this I like. I think I'm going to have to get more involved in PFS again. Players, actually affecting metaplot? Mr Jenos Idanian just got brought out of retirement, after a two year hiatus. Excellent news!
PS: Are we there *now*?
If this announcement gets you to dust off an old character and pick up your dice at a Pathfinder Society table, then yes. We are there yet.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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I approve of this awesome plan good sirs.
But a thought. What if you have multiple characters all with different factions? EX: I have characters that play Andorian, Silver Crusade, and Cheliax. That means I would know three different missions, from three different groups. That would kinda get a little messy really quick wouldn't it?
I don't see how it would be any more messy than the current situation, which I don't think is very messy at all. Unless you're specifically griefing another player using out-of-character knowledge of that player's faction goals, it shouldn't enter into it.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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This just seems odd. What are you going to do? Email the faction goals to players with a character in that faction? Don't GMs need to know all 10 of them, and aren't we trying to encourage more people to become GMs? And most players have more than one PC in different factions. Also, what about PCs created after the season starts and the info has been sent? Treating this like secret information that should only be sent to a PC of the appropriate faction just seems like a bad idea.
GMs won't be left in the dark. Scenarios will still call out the opportunities within the adventure for players to accomplish their goals. We'll make sure the general overview of each faction's goals for the year are available somewhere that everyone can see them, even if that's not in the form of the in-character updates sent from each faction head.
So will a 'Boon' of sorts or some benefit go to the faction who completes their Season 4 mission?Yes. Several, in fact. Which one a faction gets will depend on how successful it is at attaining its goals.
Well, here is your chance to give out race boons other than just at major conventions and events. Each player with a character in the most successful faction earns one. Some players will have to wait over a year from now to get their first, and maybe only, race boon, but I think some will consider the wait to be worth it.
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Well, here is your chance to give out race boons other than just at major conventions and events. Each player with a character in the most successful faction earns one. Some players will have to wait over a year from now to get their first, and maybe only, race boon, but I think some will consider the wait to be worth it.So will a 'Boon' of sorts or some benefit go to the faction who completes their Season 4 mission?Yes. Several, in fact. Which one a faction gets will depend on how successful it is at attaining its goals.
That's not a bad idea.
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That's not a bad idea.Well, here is your chance to give out race boons other than just at major conventions and events. Each player with a character in the most successful faction earns one. Some players will have to wait over a year from now to get their first, and maybe only, race boon, but I think some will consider the wait to be worth it.So will a 'Boon' of sorts or some benefit go to the faction who completes their Season 4 mission?Yes. Several, in fact. Which one a faction gets will depend on how successful it is at attaining its goals.
With 10 factions, I'd say the top 2 should get a race Boon. Top faction gets race boon of their choice, next faction gets a choice between 2 (chosen thematically for their faction, such as tieflings for cheliax). That keeps the competition pretty fresh at the top.
One random and crazy idea I just had off the cuff is what if a faction (lets say the Shadow Lodge) took last in one season of play. Players could get a race boon from a short list *as long as that character joined the losing faction*. It lets players get their special race, and it gives a good/cool reason to try and get some players in on the failing faction. Crazy idea, feel free to criticize it, as it was a totally off the cuff random idea.
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At first glance, this sounds good, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it all plays out.
But... (you knew that was coming, right?) I have two concerns.
These goals will be clear and will be disseminated to all members of a given faction by the faction heads at the start of the season. Make sure all your Pathfinder Society characters are registered on paizo.com and that your email address and privacy settings are updated before August so you'll be sure to get any missives your faction leader may send. All Pathfinder Society scenario designers will receive an overview of the factions' plans in order to incorporate opportunities to achieve these goals into their respective scenarios.This just seems odd. What are you going to do? Email the faction goals to players with a character in that faction? Don't GMs need to know all 10 of them, and aren't we trying to encourage more people to become GMs? And most players have more than one PC in different factions. Also, what about PCs created after the season starts and the info has been sent? Treating this like secret information that should only be sent to a PC of the appropriate faction just seems like a bad idea.
I say throw it all into the next edition of the Guide to Organized Play, so everyone can see all the faction goals. Or make it a free downloadable document for everyone, if it would make the Guide too big to include there. The point is, I think trying to keep the faction goals secret will do more harm than good, so just distribute them to everyone.
My second concern comes from Mike's followup post:
Mark and I are very cognizant about the length of scenarios and 4-5 hour time slots.Am I the only one who noticed the contradiction in this sentence? I'm not the most experienced convention attendee around here, but from what I've seen, convention slots aren't 4-5 hours. They're 4 hours. If a scenario last 4 hours and 1 minute, then it's already running late. In the home PFS game I usually play in, it's not a...
Not only is the plan to email every player a missive from their faction leader, but we will also be placing these up on the new, revamped PFS landing page.
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I approve of this awesome plan good sirs.
But a thought. What if you have multiple characters all with different factions? EX: I have characters that play Andorian, Silver Crusade, and Cheliax. That means I would know three different missions, from three different groups. That would kinda get a little messy really quick wouldn't it?
The plan is for you to receive emails from all three of those factions so you know what each character's faction goals are for the entire season.
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That would kinda get a little messy really quick wouldn't it?And then you get wackos like me who have a character of each faction... ;D
Yeah, I've already got 5 characters in 5 different factions, with 5 different alignments, no less. Ironically, they're only 4 different classes - I have two very different clerics.
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Has some thought been given to long term application of this? What if Joe Player joins PFS in season 5... but plays season 4 scenarios. Does he get access to boons for Faction Missions completed in the year/years before he joined the campaign? How in the world does/could he influence the campaign direction? If/when he is playing a season 4 scen., in season 5, does he work on the season 4 Faction Mission or the season 5?
A group I am in joined the campaign in the middle of Season 2, but we made an effort to play older scenarios... and I could see this happening with other people.
I think the player would need to understand that playing scenarios from previous years will not have an effect on the world at large.
In your example, Joe joins part way through year 5. Everything from year 5 works towards his faction's overall success and potentially works toward earning him a boon when the results are tallied in August. Everything else gets him xp, gold, PA, a chance to advance his character's story and any boons from his chronicles. Given the latitude GMs get for determining faction success in the new system, while playing a year 4 adventure, Joe could work on the year 5 mission to earn his PA (even though it doesn't count toward the meta-plot) or follow the hook in the module.|
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Has some thought been given to long term application of this? What if Joe Player joins PFS in season 5... but plays season 4 scenarios. Does he get access to boons for Faction Missions completed in the year/years before he joined the campaign? How in the world does/could he influence the campaign direction? If/when he is playing a season 4 scen., in season 5, does he work on the season 4 Faction Mission or the season 5?
A group I am in joined the campaign in the middle of Season 2, but we made an effort to play older scenarios... and I could see this happening with other people.
Quite a bit of thought has been given to those very questions, as well as a few others.
For us to be able to allow the playerbase to affect future storylines, in regard to subplots for each faction and the like, and those results to show in the next season, there will be no further influence after the season ends. Hence, any Season 4 scenarios played after the start of Gen Con 2013 wouldn't have an affect on the storyline for Season 5 since those changes would have already been put into place. However, all previous scenarios will still be available for play that are not retired.
We are still discussing 3-4 ways that would be best for distribution of faction boons and will disclose those at a later time. At this point, I'm leaning toward only allowing characters in their factions that played at least one scenario in that season, to receive the boom. They would not be retroactive. So, if you played your Andoran character in one or more Season 4 scenarios, and Andoran completed their faction missions and goal with 100% success, all Andoran characters recorded to have played a Season 4 scenario between Gen Con 2012 and Aug. 1 (or whatever the day before Gen Con starts) would receive the Andoran faction boon. Any new Andoran who that starts play in Season 5 would have a new faction goal and Season 5 scenarios would be put toward counting toward Season 5. He would not be able to receive the Andoran boon from Season 4 because he took no part in achieving Season 4's goal. However, he can still play Season 0-4 scenarios, receive a Chronicle sheet, and enjoy the game as normal. He just wouldn't be affecting the metaplot of previous seasons.
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Has some thought been given to long term application of this? What if Joe Player joins PFS in season 5... but plays season 4 scenarios. Does he get access to boons for Faction Missions completed in the year/years before he joined the campaign? How in the world does/could he influence the campaign direction? If/when he is playing a season 4 scen., in season 5, does he work on the season 4 Faction Mission or the season 5?
A group I am in joined the campaign in the middle of Season 2, but we made an effort to play older scenarios... and I could see this happening with other people.
Quite a bit of thought has been given to those very questions, as well as a few others.
For us to be able to allow the playerbase to affect future storylines, in regard to subplots for each faction and the like, and those results to show in the next season, there will be no further influence after the season ends. Hence, any Season 4 scenarios played after Gen Con 2013 wouldn't have an affect on the storyline for Season 5 since those changes would have already been put into place. However, all previous scenarios will still be available for play that are not retired.
We are still discussing 3-4 ways that would be best for distribution of faction boons and will disclose those at a later time. At this point, I'm leaning toward only allowing characters in their factions that played at least one scenario in that season, to receive the boom. They would not be retroactive. So, if you played your Andoran character in one or more Season 4 scenarios, and Andoran completed their faction missions and goal with 100% success, all Andoran characters recorded to have played a Season 4 scenario between Gen Con 2012 and Aug. 1 (or whatever the day before Gen Con starts) would receive the Andoran faction boon. Any new Andoran who that starts play in Season 5 would have a new faction goal and Season 5 scenarios would be put toward counting toward Season 5. He would not be able to receive the Andoran boon from...
I'm assuming that this going to be somehow tagged to the reporting system, making it more and more important to report games played right?
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On a side note, this new change is not what we want to use to distribute race boons. We have some other ideas we a discussing regarding that issue. It would be a 16 months before that kicks in since the first results and faction boons want be available until the end of Season 4 in August 2013. We want these boons to be truly faction-specific and just allowing them to open up a new race is not the goal.
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Yeah, I was going to say that only players who actually play their characters during the season should be eligible to earn boons. And GM credit shouldn't count.
But do they have to play that season's scenarios? If I play my Taldor sorcerer in a season 2 adventure during season 4, he's still earning prestige, even though he isn't advancing the specific faction goals of the season. So would he still be eligible for the boons for season 4 without playing a season 4 adventure?
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I'm assuming that this going to be somehow tagged to the reporting system, making it more and more important to report games played right?
Mark and I will be able to internally track faction goals and how those percentages are measured. So, yes, if you want your character's actions and faction missions to be credited to the faction goal for the season, it will definitely need to be reported.
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Yeah, I was going to say that only players who actually play their characters during the season should be eligible to earn boons. And GM credit shouldn't count.
But do they have to play that season's scenarios? If I play my Taldor sorcerer in a season 2 adventure during season 4, he's still earning prestige, even though he isn't advancing the specific faction goals of the season. So would he still be eligible for the boons for season 4 without playing a season 4 adventure?
To earn a faction boon for season 4, you will need to have played in at least one Season 4 adventure to receive the boon.
Season 0-3 scenarios will not be tracked in regard to Season 4 goals, because although you a earning prestige points, they are not prestige tied specifically to that Seasons faction goal.
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And GM credit shouldn't count.
I'm sorry, but that is a huge issue for me. There needs to be just as much of a reason to GM (if not more so) than to play. If a GM runs a table 2-3 times a month for the whole season, that is one heck of a boost for PFS play. Why should they not get their boon? When I had the time to be as involved in PFS as I wanted, my play-to-GM ratio was about 1:6. Frequently, I ran tables cold because the store needed it. If I felt I would lose out on helping my faction, or that I might miss out on a reward, that would make me think twice about being the GM.
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At this point, I'm leaning toward only allowing characters in their factions that played at least one scenario in that season, to receive the boom.
*Paracountess Zarta Dralneen having party after a very successful year addressing Cheliax members*
Thanks you all very much for helping us reach our goals this year, as a thank you, you will find an envelope under your chair with your reward. Please feel free to read them now.
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I'm sorry, but that is a huge issue for me. There needs to be just as much of a reason to GM (if not more so) than to play. If a GM runs a table 2-3 times a month for the whole season, that is one heck of a boost for PFS play. Why should they not get their boon? When I had the time to be as involved in PFS as I wanted, my play-to-GM ratio was about 1:6. Frequently, I ran tables cold because the store needed it. If I felt I would lose out on helping my faction, or that I might miss out on a reward, that would make me think twice about being the GM.And GM credit shouldn't count.
So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?
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I'm sorry, but that is a huge issue for me. There needs to be just as much of a reason to GM (if not more so) than to play. If a GM runs a table 2-3 times a month for the whole season, that is one heck of a boost for PFS play. Why should they not get their boon? When I had the time to be as involved in PFS as I wanted, my play-to-GM ratio was about 1:6. Frequently, I ran tables cold because the store needed it. If I felt I would lose out on helping my faction, or that I might miss out on a reward, that would make me think twice about being the GM.And GM credit shouldn't count.
So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?
Why automatically assume that a GM is going to abuse the system?
I have questions about that ... but shall be a new thread.. in the meantime
my cheliax, grand lodge. scarzni members will be happy
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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I like the "being able to influence" the outcome of metaplots, rewarded with faction boons. But, as Fromper eludes to, will there be any special stipulations or hamstringing for GMs? As someone who's GM to play ratio is probably 10:1, or even 15:1, I'd be dismayed at missing out on my faction boons -- since I already do miss lots of boons from chronicle sheets already.
EDIT: Because I forgot to: Thanks for all the hard work guys, PFS just keeps getting better and it's because of people like you. :)
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So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?
Is that such a huge problem? If I had a GM willing to run 10 times in my area, I would do everything in my power to encourage it and others to do the same. If it costs me a few boons to do so, so be it.
Game On!
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RPG Superstar 2015 Top 32, RPG Superstar 2012 Top 32
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So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?Is that such a huge problem? If I had a GM willing to run 10 times in my area, I would do everything in my power to encourage it and others to do the same. If it costs me a few boons to do so, so be it.
Game On!
Yeah, gonna have to echo this. If all of the regular players in Minnesota GM'd 10 times each, we would never be short on GMs. That's worth each of them getting a couple of boons.
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So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?
If I can get someone other than the usual suspects to GM 10 times at our game days (twice a month, times twelve, that's closing in at least a 1/3 of all the opportunities to play) then I am more than happy to let them have the faction boons for their characters. Because of them, 30-70 opportunities to complete the faction mission were available.
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RPG Superstar Season 9 Top 8
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Yeah, gonna have to echo this. If all of the regular players in Minnesota GM'd 10 times each, we would never be short on GMs. That's worth each of them getting ten boons.So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?Is that such a huge problem? If I had a GM willing to run 10 times in my area, I would do everything in my power to encourage it and others to do the same. If it costs me a few boons to do so, so be it.
Game On!
Fix'd ;)
PS: Did you read the errata yet? (I PM'd u)
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Fix'd ;)Yeah, gonna have to echo this. If all of the regular players in Minnesota GM'd 10 times each, we would never be short on GMs. That's worth each of them getting ten boons.So what's to stop someone from making characters in all 10 factions, GMing 10 times, and applying the credits to all their characters, so they can get all the boons?Is that such a huge problem? If I had a GM willing to run 10 times in my area, I would do everything in my power to encourage it and others to do the same. If it costs me a few boons to do so, so be it.
Game On!
No, they'd have all ten factions covered, but not all ten factions will get boons - only the ones who did well (unless I misunderstood something). But GMing ten times and applying each credit to characters of different factions ensures that whoever gets boons, you're in the party.
PS: Did you read the errata yet? (I PM'd u)
Some of it (there's a lot!). Thanks!