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Spells such as inflict light wounds and cure light wounds channel negative and positive energy respectively, for effects that change the type of energy damage that you deal (such as a sorcerer's elemental bloodline arcana or the elemental spell feat), would they affect that type of spells?
That is to say, if I have a sorcerer/oracle with the elemental bloodline, can my inflict light wounds spell deal cold damage instead?
No, The elemental bloodline affects the traditional 4 elements. Positive and Negative energy are a completely different brand of energy.
- Gauss
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Should be worked on. It's okay to spread positive energy, everyone likes it, but negative just kills people. Everyone should work on their stress to handle negative energy!
But if you meant on pathfinder system, about what Gauss said. Note that elemental damage isn't same as negative energy damage. Force damage also isn't elemental damage type.
One thing it's technically 5 types gauss, acid fire cold electricity and sonic. Unless they changed something about sonic I missed.
Talonhawke:
I stated the elemental bloodline affects the traditional 4 elements. I did not state that there are only 4 energy types. The Elemental Bloodline requires you to choose between Air (Electricity), Earth (Acid), Fire (Fire), and Water (Cold). There is no Sonic option.
- Gauss
My bad then sorry for the mistake man. The bloodline would still allow you to turn a sonic spell to your energy type though right? Or am I way off base?
Talonhawke: No worries
The answer is by RAW yes, but it should be no. Then again, it is not really a good thing that it changes Sonic to one of the traditional energy types. Typically, creatures are not resistant to Sonic energy.
Bloodline Arcana: Whenever you cast a spell that deals energy damage, you can change the type of damage to match the type of your bloodline. This also changes the spell’s type to match the type of your bloodline.
Note: the quoted section is also why it does not affect positive or negative energy. Those energy types are not typed in spells. Example of typing:
School evocation [fire]
- Gauss
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Given how channel resistance differs (significantly) from energy resistance (either the from a spell or a special ability), I'd say the elemental bloodline's arcana simply doesn't apply to spells involving positive/negative energy. They would apply to acid/cold/fire/electricity spells, and sonic spells at the GMs discretion (most likely, I'd say it does).
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Can someone quote where it states that fire, cold, electricity, and acid are the four main types of energy? So far from what I gather from this thread, you can only turn a spell that deals those types of energy into a different type with effects like a sorcerer's bloodline. So a magic missile could not be turned from force to fire, much like an inflict XXX wounds spells couldn't be turned into fire damage.
On that note, according to the spell inflict light wounds, it deals negative energy damage, which from the way I read it, is a energy damage, can anyone quote something stating otherwise?
IIRC PF never defined the energy types by RAW, but other ability only list those for to include the metammagic feat elemental spell. There are also 4 base versions of elementals.
For 3.5 information:
energy damage: Damage caused by one of five types of energy (not counting positive and negative energy): acid, cold, electricity, fire, and sonic.
Unfortunately, no such glossary exists in pathfinder. It is badly needed.
This is just something that is 'known'. If you want, go ask James Jacobs. He will tell you the same thing.
- Gauss
I believe sonic counts, but PF did not add that statement. It counts in my games. :)
To note: the BL clearly envisions the existence of only 4 elements, with terminology distinct from the fact you can only choose from 4 specific elements: The latter bolding is excusable as a minor variant of 'one of the FOLLOWING four elements', but the first bolding doesn't really have that to justify it. So to say that for purposes of this class (disregarding the rest of the game), there is only 4 elements, seems pretty reasonable.
OTOH, the BL Arcana doesn't have that wording, and just references energy damage. (+/-) Energy spells as well as Sonic Energy spells would superficiously seem to count as 'energy damage'. Although the ability changes the spells type to match your BL energy affinity, there is no requirement that there BE an existing energy type TO change.
In the Life Oracle, there is an ability 'Energy Body' that references a Positive Energy Elemental... Which if that exists, one would think that Negative Energy Elementals also exist. There are also Positive and Negative Energy Planes, like Fire/Water/etc. I'm am pretty certain there is no such thing as a Sonic Elemental, nor Sonic Plane of Energy... So I would say that there is MORE case for applying to Positive and Negative Energy than to Sonic, although you could ALSO include Sonic Energy if you so wished (I would just advise to definitely include (+/-) Energy as well, in that case.)
On the whole, I would rule that only Fire/Water/Air/Earth and associated Energy Descriptors count/work with this BL ability. Sonic and Positive/Negative don't.
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I can understand why people would say that the only four elements you are allowed to convert would be fire, cold, acid, and electricity (and may be sonic, depeneding who you are talking to). But as per the wording on the BL, I don't see any note of the such. Even in this, the FYI is quite vague, not staying any concrete sources, and even saying that those five energy types are the ones typically affected by energy resistance (which is not entirely true, since there now is an Aasimar racial trait that gives you negative energy resistance 5). That's why I am lead to believe that if it's damage that can't be negated by DR of some sort, it probably is some type of energy damage (except untyped damage).
The Bloodline Arcana doesn't saying anything about Spell Descriptors... just "energy damage". Like the negative energy damage you would deal with Inflict.
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Clarification - does inflict light wounds deal 1d8 + 1 per level negative energy damage, or 1d8 + 1 per level damage (uptyeped)? The spell states the latter, which would make it not useable as an "energy type" for this. Is channelling positive energy from another plane really as simple a thing as lighting a torch or pouring acid on a guy?
FAQing this, since it isn't crystal clear.
"When laying your hand upon a creature, you channel negative energy that deals 1d8 points of damage + 1 point per caster level (maximum +5)."
Your are channeling negative energy to deal the damage. Seems clear to me that the 1d8+X is negative energy. The spell even goes a bit further to prove this.
"Since undead are powered by negative energy, this spell cures such a creature of a like amount of damage, rather than harming it."
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The BL states you can change any energy damage TO the type associated with your BL. So, you could change Sonic damage to Fire, Electricity, Cold, or Acid because you have to choose one of those to tie your BL to...Sonic is not an option for the BL.
From my reading of RAW, you COULD, theoretically, convert inflict spells to fire spells; the BL doesn't require the spells to have an energy subtype, only that they inflict energy damage. EDIT: Actually, it seems that all spells that deal energy damage specifically call it out in the spell description as well as having an energy subtype. Inflict spells do NOT deal negative energy...they USE negative energy to deal Xd8 + 1 point/level points of damage. It's untyped damage, so it cannot be converted.
However, I'm pretty sure you can only use sorcerer bloodline powers to affect sorcerer spells. Since all the inflict spells are divine, the entire conversation is moot unless you have a way to add cleric spells to your sorcerer spell list. (NOTE: I didn't actually see anything in the sorcerer BL section that specifically states the abilities only apply to sorcerer spells...so I may be completely wrong on my final point.)
Folks, throughout all of 3.X Energy damage was defined as 5 types (Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic). The intent of PF is that Energy Damage is of the same 5 types but because of a lack of glossary this is not clearly stated. In both 3.X and PF there are two additional 'energy' types that are not true energy types. Those being Positive and Negative energy. They are only peripherally referenced as energy in the descriptions but they are NEVER given the energy damage tags or definitions.
To this end here is James Jacobs comments on it.
ioosef wrote:
I posted this on the Rules forum, but anyone has yet to provide me with a RAW answer. Here is the original postQuote:
Spells such as inflict light wounds and cure light wounds channel negative and positive energy respectively, for effects that change the type of energy damage that you deal (such as a sorcerer's elemental bloodline arcana or the elemental spell feat), would they affect that type of spells?
That is to say, if I have a sorcerer/oracle with the elemental bloodline, can my inflict light wounds spell deal cold damage instead?
And this is the original post. Can you please provide a definitive answer, or at least the source of where I might find one?James Jacobs response: Positive energy and negative energy are not "energy types," despite the unfortunately confusing use of the word "energy" in their name.
There are 5 energy types in the game that cause damage: acid, cold, fire, electricity, and sonic. In many cases, sonic is left off since it's one that so few monsters are resistant or immune to.
The sorcerer's elemental bloodline arcana and spell feats cannot affect positive or negative energy at all.
Note: I added the JJ response tag.
People can argue that Positive and Negative energy are 'energy' and thus should qualify the same as Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, and Sonic energy types but that has not been part of the game's design since 2000 and although not clearly stated in PF (as so much is not) it is not part of PF's design either.
- Gauss