Adding class level to monster. How and what CR?

[Gonzzo]

I want to create a level one fighter orc as chief of orcs for a 1st level party of 3. Should I roll stats and give the orc +4 Strength, –2 Intelligence, –2 Wisdom, –2 Charisma as you would for a orc character, and if so what would be the CR of this monster. Or, should I give it +4, +4, +2, +2, +0, -2 as stated in the bestiary for adding levels to monsters, and what would be the CR? I'm trying to create a CR3 So I figured a level one fighter orc as chief and a couple of body guards would suffice.
Or, should I just make it an advanced creature?

[wraithstrike]

You only use the 4,4,2,2,0,-2 for monsters with racial hit dice.

Other wise you use the heroic stat array of : 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, and 8.

You then add the monster's modifiers.

The orc would CR 1/2.

[Gonzzo]

(only CR 1/2?) So how, or where can I find it in the rulebook, do you calculate CR for NPCs with class levels, I thought it was CR=NPC class level but couldn't find it anywhere in the rules. And what exactly is racial HD.

[Grimmy]

Yup.
I think if you give orcs PC class levels the CR should always be level-1.

For stats Orcs should get
STR +4
INT -2
WIS -2
CHA -2

[Grimmy]

Gonzzo wrote:

(only CR 1/2?) So how, or where can I find it in the rulebook, do you calculate CR for NPCs with class levels, I thought it was CR=NPC class level but couldn't find it anywhere in the rules. And what exactly is racial HD.

For NPC class levels I think it is CR = level -2

[Gonzzo]

Thank you for the quick replies. As you can tell Im pretty green at GMing and creating my own adventures in particularly.

[Grimmy]

Hopefully I'm not steering you wrong but for monsters with no racial hit dice like orcs I have been building them as NPC's using the rules from core rulebook.

Creating NPC's

For monsters with racial hit dice I use these rules from the bestiary

Monster Advancement

Hopefully someone can confirm if this advice is right.

[Gonzzo]

but if I used the advanced creature template it would quickly and easily bring monster up to CR1, right?
Advanced Creature (CR +1)
Creatures with the advanced template are fiercer and
more powerful than their ordinary cousins.
Quick Rules: +2 on all rolls (including damage rolls)
and special ability DCs; +4 to AC and CMD; +2 hp/HD.
Rebuild Rules: AC increase natural armor by +2; Ability
Scores +4 to all ability scores.

That would give orc a AC17 & falchion +7 (2d4+6 18/20) which seems adequately if not excessively tough for a CR1.

[Grimmy]

Yeah you bet. Advanced Creature template would make your 1st level Orc Fighter a CR 1.

[Caderyn]

Be very careful with high ST falchion wielders at CR1 minimum damage on a crit is 16 and with an 18-20 crit range its highly possible to proc it.

[Grimmy]

Check those numbers though, your CR 1 level 1 Orc Fighter should have at least AC 18 in studded leather, falchion +7 2d4+9 18-20.

That will get even better if you give him better armor and a masterwork falchion or something like that. He can have up to 390 GP in gear.

[wraithstrike]

Grimmy wrote:

Hopefully I'm not steering you wrong but for monsters with no racial hit dice like orcs I have been building them as NPC's using the rules from core rulebook.

Creating NPC's

For monsters with racial hit dice I use these rules from the bestiary

Monster Advancement

Hopefully someone can confirm if this advice is right.

That is correct.

[wraithstrike]

Gonzzo wrote:

but if I used the advanced creature template it would quickly and easily bring monster up to CR1, right?

Advanced Creature (CR +1)
Creatures with the advanced template are fiercer and
more powerful than their ordinary cousins.
Quick Rules: +2 on all rolls (including damage rolls)
and special ability DCs; +4 to AC and CMD; +2 hp/HD.
Rebuild Rules: AC increase natural armor by +2; Ability
Scores +4 to all ability scores.

That would give orc a AC17 & falchion +7 (2d4+6 18/20) which seems adequately if not excessively tough for a CR1.

Orcs can kill level 1 characters with one hit. It is better to give him 2 level of fighter. He won't hit as hard, and the party might live.

[Grimmy]

Caderyn wrote:

Be very careful with high ST falchion wielders at CR1 minimum damage on a crit is 16 and with an 18-20 crit range its highly possible to proc it.

Yeah he will be one mean CR1

[MassivePauldrons]

Name: Orc Chief Slayer of Early level PCs

Fighter: LVL2

Ability Scores: Elite Array
STR: 17 (+2) (13 base +4 Racial)
DEX: 10 (+0) (10)
CON: 14 (+2) (14)
INT: 10 (0) (12)
WIS: 13 (+1) (15)
CHA: 6 (-2) (08)

HP: 19 HP (2d10+4)

Saving Throws
Fort: +5 Ref: +0 Will: +3

AC: 16 - Touch 10, Flatfooted 16 (+6 Masterwork Chainmail)

Attacks: Masterwork Warhammer(changed from Greataxe to limit PC death) +7, 1d8+4 dmg (20/x3)
Longbow +2, 1d8 (20/x3)

Class Abilities:
Bravery +1

BAB: +1 CMB: +5 CMD: 15

Feats:
Intimidating Prowess
Iron Will
Weapon Focus(Warhammer)

Skills:
+6 Intimidate +2 Perception +4 Climb +4 Survival

Gear: 780gp worth
Masterwork Warhammer, Masterwork Chainmail,Potion of Cure Light Wounds, Longbow, 20 Arrows in a Quiver, 34gp

For the basic Orcs just use the ones from the Bestiary, though maybe give them Toughness instead of Weapon Focus (Falchion) and maybe switch out the Falchions for Spears or Morningstars.

[Gonzzo]

Thanks for the advice, wraith. I was afraid advancing the orc that way might might make him a little too dangerous for a level one party of 3 inexperienced players. I think I'll go with level 2 fighter. Thanks for posting the statblock for me, Pauldrons, that should work just fine.

[Tom S 820]

I use monster base line and Add +4 +4 +2 it quicker less stats to change and it still same 15 points.

[laarddrym]

if it's a under-manned party (3 players) in addition to all 3 of those players being new to the game, I would recommend sticking to monsters as written in the beastiary. Keep in mind that two CR 1/2 monsters equal a CR 1 encounter, while also being a more survivable fight. In addition, those two CR 1/2 orcs will give two targets to the group, meaning more than 1 player has a chance to get a kill in one of their very first RPG combats!

Also keep in mind that new players may not be familiar with things experienced players take for granted, such as economy of action, when to control battlefields & when to just fight, the difference between Reflex saves vs. Fortitude & Will saves (just taking damage vs. suffering crippling mechanical effects). The list goes on, but as long as your players feel challenged without getting frustrated, you're doing your job! Good luck GM'ing and have fun =)