If a druid is bound (for instance by rope or manacles) and wild shapes into an animal bigger than himself, will the restraints break? If he turns into an animal smaller than himself, can he just slip out of the bonds? And finally, if he turns into an air elemental, can he just slip away, or fire elemental, can he just burn through ropes?
I imagine there are simple answers to these questions, I just haven't found them. I'd say yes to all of these, but a high level druid would then be almost impossible to keep restrained.
Yes, these questions can be answered simply, and in several ways.
Can a druid break bonds by getting bigger: Enlarge Person allows for a check to break restraints, so I'd allow something along the same lines.
Can a druid slip free of bonds if he turns smaller: I'd say yes, because the bonds were made for someone bigger.
Can a druid slip free as an air elemental: Surprisingly, I think air elemental should be considered 'solid'. If they can grapple you, then they should be able to be caught.
Can he burn through the restraints as a fire elemental: Yes, assuming it's flammable.
Hope that helps.
Or you can be evil and say the restraints count as "equipment" just like armor worn. Therefor they meld into your new form and don't bother you, but if you ever turn back to your humanoid form, you're tied up again :)
But I think that's sort of a dick-GM move
It's not evil, it's how the mechanics work. Indeed, a wild-shaped druid would be unbound if it makes it into animal form, since the manacles and/or rope would meld with the druid. And the bonds would reform in humanoid form, as you said.
HOWEVER, the descriptor of Wild Shape says it is a supernatural ability. The definition of which, on pg. 220, does not say that it forgoes spell components, as do the Spell-Like abilities described above it.
That being said, Wild Shape is treated as the Beast Shape spell, per description. Beast Shape requires Verbal, Somatic, and Material components.
So it stands to reason that the Wild Shape ability requires the druid to use those same spell components. It's hard to waggle your arms and fingers while bound or tied up.
CAVEAT: A level 20 druid can Wild Shape at will. I would say that this might be the only time that I would allow it without components.
If the restraints counted as equipment and it was metal, it could be construed that the druid loses his abilities and can't wildshape in the first place.
Although since I brought that up, please don't bring that thread here. It's just one POSSIBLE way to construe it.
The prohibition on metal only applies to armor and shields, not weapons or equipment per the WEAPON AND ARMOR PROFICIENCY: description on pg. 49 of the Core Rulebook. Also, see EX-DRUIDS on pg. 51 for a list of other things that cause a druid to lose his/her abilities.
Ah yes, you're right.
Strap a bronze chain mail on and call it a day? :D
Hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha *breathe* hahahahahahaha.
Indeed, that would effectively shut off my shapechanging powers, using RAW.
1) Knock out druid.
2) Put a chain shirt on him and tie it down.
3) Watch him squirm.
Now THAT is evil. Now, since the druid did not willingly assume the chain shirt, I would rule that as soon as it was off, the powers come back.
Ah, but how would the druid take it off while strapped down in manacles?
In addition, it takes some time to remove heavier armor (so if you had some time on your hands, put on heavier armor). Plenty of time to gank the druid with the specially prepared touch spells that you've brought to target his lowered touch AC (thanks to the heavy armor).
If you really wanted to "gank the druid" you'd simply coup de gras him after step 1 above, while he's unconscious.
And I have no clue how the druid would take it off while strapped down and in manacles or bound with rope. Perhaps his ape companion (not a supernatural or spell-like ability)?
It's classified as (Ex) and not lost under the purview of donning metal armor or shields (cannot cast druid spells or use (Sp) or (Su) abilities)...he doesn't lose the companion unless he becomes an Ex-druid...
Beguiling Gift + Steel Shield = No druid powers for 24 hours.
You guys went waaaaaayy silly w/ this.
I summon creeping doom into your pants. May the fleas of a thousand reindeer nest in your genitals.
You guys went waaaaaayy silly w/ this.
I summon creeping doom into your pants. May the fleas of a thousand reindeer nest in your genitals.
Yes, we did, but at least we answered the valid question first. And creeping doom pants just sounds....AWESOME.
In 3.5 my master of many forms/nature's warrior/wildshape extraordinaire Druid was captured and knocked unconscious. He woke up wearing a steel breastplate that was bolted on and had chains running along it to bind wrists and ankles. I was also gagged. My GM was not kidding around. I was truly useless.
Hmm.. I don't think the bonds would count as gear, or even an attended object. All that implies wanting posession of the thing, protecting it against attack with your saving throw bonus and CMD. Bonds aren't a creature's possession like that, they just happen to be in physical contact with the creature bound.
I think the question to ask to resolve this is what if the Druid was in a small cage?
Since bonds are much more simmilar to that kind of restraint than they are to armor or other gear voluntarily worn, could a druid automatically burst out of a cage by using wild shape to become large?
I think the answer is no. I think it'd work similarly to enlarge person, where the druid would get a strength check to bust out, but if that failed would either remain caged or fail to polymorph altogether. So, ropes or chains would be the same.
Of course, then, the druid could just get small instead.
To the OP: I don't think you will get an answer to your question that follows RAW. That's the sort of thing that I think is intentionally left in the realm of vagueness to allow DMs to make use of the Rule of Cool and/or Rule 0.
Were I the DM, the druid would be allowed a strength check with the new form's modifiers to break the bonds, but they would not be destroyed without a check. If the check failed, then the druid would be VERY uncomfortable and may start suffering the effects of restricted circulation.
Getting smaller? Yeah. I can't see a check being made there. If you're gonna change shape for this, I don't imagine you're going to change into something only slightly smaller, you're going to go as little as possible. Easily done by 4th level: humanoid to dog/bird/other small animal.
Air elementals... mmm... tough call here. I'm tempted to just say that they're made of air and can't be bound by normal means, but they are not incorporeal creatures. It would really depend on the situation.
Fire elemental... would depend on the material used to bind the druid. Rope? Gone. Chains might take several rounds, but by then, the problem could be addressed by other means.
Best of luck.
Thanks, guys. Both for the good, useful replies and for the laughs. :)
Can a druid slip free as an air elemental: Surprisingly, I think air elemental should be considered 'solid'. If they can grapple you, then they should be able to be caught.
Caught yes, held no - in my opinion. They are solid enough to strike, to grapple, but they are also able to - or should be able to - alter their shape, thickness, whatever to be able to escape anything that is not magical in nature or continuously trying to restrain them (like a grapple). Just my two cents.
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Caught yes, held no - in my opinion. They are solid enough to strike, to grapple, but they are also able to - or should be able to - alter their shape, thickness, whatever to be able to escape anything that is not magical in nature or continuously trying to restrain them (like a grapple). Just my two cents.
Can a druid slip free as an air elemental: Surprisingly, I think air elemental should be considered 'solid'. If they can grapple you, then they should be able to be caught.
Unfortunately, your .02 doesn't match the description of an Air Elemental. Surprisingly enough, no where does it say that an Air Elemental can become Incorpreal or Change Shape. So the bonds would stay.
As for the Fire Elemental, they have a Burn ability that would cause damage to bonds and may destroy them.
Now the real question: What if they turn into something that has no arms? Like a Medium sized snake. Again, GM rule.
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It's not evil, it's how the mechanics work. Indeed, a wild-shaped druid would be unbound if it makes it into animal form, since the manacles and/or rope would meld with the druid. And the bonds would reform in humanoid form, as you said.
HOWEVER, the descriptor of Wild Shape says it is a supernatural ability. The definition of which, on pg. 220, does not say that it forgoes spell components, as do the Spell-Like abilities described above it.
That being said, Wild Shape is treated as the Beast Shape spell, per description. Beast Shape requires Verbal, Somatic, and Material components.
So it stands to reason that the Wild Shape ability requires the druid to use those same spell components. It's hard to waggle your arms and fingers while bound or tied up.
CAVEAT: A level 20 druid can Wild Shape at will. I would say that this might be the only time that I would allow it without components.
Both your logic for why it would have components, and your logic for when you would no longer require them, seem to have no basis in rules.
The supernatural abilities that say "as ___ spell" do so as a shortcut for the *effect*, not for either the activation or to imply that it's actually a spell. If it was actually a spell, it would be (Sp), not (Su). If it had those components, it would be a Spell and would require casting (that's what those components represent, after all).
"At Will" just means that there is no limit on the number of times it can be activated, and has no effect on either the method or the result of the activation.
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As for the OP's question: I agree that this would effectively be the same as enlarge. Do a strength check to burst as you would for your new (larger) size (using your modified strength bonus). If successful, the bonds break and you're free. If you fail, your shapeshifting fails. It's probably better to shift into something smaller and just slip out.
Caught yes, held no - in my opinion. They are solid enough to strike, to grapple, but they are also able to - or should be able to - alter their shape, thickness, whatever to be able to escape anything that is not magical in nature or continuously trying to restrain them (like a grapple). Just my two cents.
Can a druid slip free as an air elemental: Surprisingly, I think air elemental should be considered 'solid'. If they can grapple you, then they should be able to be caught.Unfortunately, your .02 doesn't match the description of an Air Elemental. Surprisingly enough, no where does it say that an Air Elemental can become Incorpreal or Change Shape. So the bonds would stay.
As for the Fire Elemental, they have a Burn ability that would cause damage to bonds and may destroy them.
Now the real question: What if they turn into something that has no arms? Like a Medium sized snake. Again, GM rule.
I think there comes a time when common sense must prevail - I find it hard to believe that an air elemental would EVER have been conceived to be a rigid structure that could be tied down like a trunk.
From that description you linked:
Air elementals are fast, flying creatures made of living air.
Although all air elementals of a similar size have identical statistics, the exact appearance of an air elemental can vary wildly between individuals. One might be an animated vortex of wind and smoke, while another might be a smoky bird-like creature with glowing eyes and wind for wings.
I'd be hard pressed to find the proper knot to tie down an 'animated vortex of wind and smoke'...
I would change to a smaller shape to get out. As for a bigger shape I might require a strength check. I don't think there are rules for it.
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All I know is the air elemental from The Chronicles of Riddick was chained once :P
Look, I am not saying that it doesn't make sense to give an Air Elemental the ability to just let the bonds drop from them, but that isn't in their descriptions. In your idea of them, then they should be able to flow under doors or pass through bars, but they can't. Why should they be able to squeeze out of bonds?
Air elementals are solid(have a specific form)* even they are made of air. If they were not solid then weapons would not be able to hurt them.
*I know it does not make sense, but it is that way in the game for balance reasons. If not then water and fire elementals would also make for really hard fights.
I'm still in the camp that thinks that both air and fire elementals should be classified as incorporeal.