Contributor
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That's a really good question, tbug (of course, you probably know that, which is why you asked...anyway)
Since there's nothing indicating that the GM should begin controlling a mist-tainted PC, I would suggest creating several index cards providing afflicted players with information about the template:
"Visions of madness and rage cloud your mind, reducing you to little more than a violent, raving lunatic.
You are now a Mist-tainted creature (augmented humanoid). Your statistics are modified in the following way:
Intelligence and Charisma scores reduced to 6
Gain a +2 to Strength and Dexterity
Immune to fear
Gain a +10 to Climb checks (and a climb speed of 20 feet)
Gain a +5 to Jump, Hide, and Move Silently
Gain a slam attack (1d4 for Medium creatures)"
Once they have the basics in hand, players should be able to quickly modify their characters' applicable skills and abilities and can be expected to roleplay their character appropriately.
It may be a challenge to encourage these players to handle the affliction appropriately in-character, but I think it would be more difficult to manage several party members while simultaneously keeping the scenario moving.
The question does arise of what a GM should do if every member of the party succumbs to the mists.
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Once they have the basics in hand, players should be able to quickly modify their characters' applicable skills and abilities and can be expected to roleplay their character appropriately.
It may be a challenge to encourage these players to handle the affliction appropriately in-character, but I think it would be more difficult to manage several party members while simultaneously keeping the scenario moving.
You clearly game with completely different people than I do. :D
I won't have any trouble whatsoever convincing people to roleplay appropriately. My players will be all over it. Some of them, however, are fairly new to D&D and having to recalculate reflex saves and skill bonuses and attack rolls and so on and so forth will discourage them and bog down the game quite a bit. I've already prepared a handout, but I've also contacted all my players and they're sending me copies of their characters so that I can have templated versions available as handouts at the table.
Sure, it might only take five or ten minutes to alter the character properly, but those would probably be minutes when the player felt pressured and like he/she wasn't having fun.
The question does arise of what a GM should do if every member of the party succumbs to the mists.
It honestly never occurred to me to take control of a PC who had succumbed to the mists. I think that leaving them under the control of the players is the correct course of action, assuming you trust your players. I think this can be a lot of fun, in fact. :) I just want to avoid an unfun player conversion sessions in the middle of the game.
I guess if I'm running this at a con (which I will be in a couple of weeks) I could have the handouts ready, and once the first person gets affected I could hand everyone a template and ask them to convert their characters, "just in case". That way even if nobody needs to use the templated version the rest of the table isn't sitting around drumming their fingers on the table waiting while someone applies the template.
Thanks for the brainstorming.
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I just finished running it, and three of the four PCs spent the entire game mist-tainted. This scenario is really hard on arcane spellcasters. They're more or less left with nothing to do for four hours but sit around and hope other people win the objective. If they're roleplaying properly they wade into combat, of course, and immediately get the tar beaten out of them. Our wizard had a long heart-to-heart talk with her familiar, who was her intellectual equal for the first time ever.
That said, we had a good time. There was a great deal of laughter.
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How odd. After one of our two "test subjects" inhaled the mist and got mad, we took him to the "Drive-through temple" and got the cure we wanted. Also, I had the clever idea of covering my nose and mouth with a scarf, thus eliminating the chance of being tainted by the mist.
Overall, the scenario was a breeze to us. Definitely not some Killer Logue like we expected. Then again we were cautious due to the fame (or infame) of Logue. ;)
EDIT: Now that I read parts of the scenario, I'm surprised to have found the expected way to deal with the matter. Yay!
Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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I ran this yesterday and thoroughly enjoyed it.
The first two PCs who went into the museum decided to put scarves round their faces to block the mist. The third walked in and succumbed to the mists. I handed him a sheet with the template info (with a watermark image of the ape) and he chuckled and had his character drop his weapons and charge at the two ahead. After a rather tricky fight ("Get away, I'll crossbow him." "No, subdue him." "Aahh, he's biting my ear!") they got him unconscious and dragged him out. That all fitted with what the NPCs who had succumbed had done. In the final combat I did have some attempts to pull the scarves off people's faces but didn't succeed.
The final battle was really tough and having characters scramble up and down the ziggurat was fun and particularly getting to push a few characters off the top of the ziggurat. (Bit of a Donkey Kong moment!)
Having a party of warrior types and one rogue, I was concerned about too many succumbing to the mist and them not being able to release characters from it. While fighting to subdue the one PC did cost them a lot of healing it wasn't a big problem.
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I'll be running this next week and have to ask a few questions to all those who have run it or plan to run it.
As I've got the advantage of running this at home, I've had the idea of speaking to each player separately when they enter area 1 whether or not they've succumbed (I won't mention anything if they don't succumb). All this under the cover of a flash-back to when they received their faction missions. ;)
What do you think?
Cheers! :D
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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I'll be running this next week and have to ask a few questions to all those who have run it or plan to run it.
** spoiler omitted **
Cheers! :D
Your idea sounds good.
I'll answer from the perspective of the home game I ran.
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Your idea sounds good.
I'll answer from the perspective of the home game I ran.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for that!
Though I'm unsure as to how much GMs can tinker with scenarios.
Cheers! :D
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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Your idea sounds good.
I'll answer from the perspective of the home game I ran.
** spoiler omitted **
Thanks for that!
** spoiler omitted **Cheers! :D
No problem. I think with home games the GM has more leeway so go for what you think your players will enjoy.
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I am running #5 next weekend. Thanks for the useful tips on prepping a mist template handout ahead of time. One question I had was how do you handle the Osirion faction mission? The will is hidden in a scarab worn by the animated corpse. Did you require a search roll for the PC's to find the hidden compartment or did the PC's have to activate the feather token to find the compartment?
Thanks for any feedback.
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Regional Venture-Coordinator, Mediterranean
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I am running #5 next weekend. Thanks for the useful tips on prepping a mist template handout ahead of time. One question I had was how do you handle the Osirion faction mission? The will is hidden in a scarab worn by the animated corpse. Did you require a search roll for the PC's to find the hidden compartment or did the PC's have to activate the feather token to find the compartment?
Thanks for any feedback.
When I ran it the Osirion faction players immediately checked out the scarab and as one is a Rogue with the tomb raider faction feat I just had them automatically work out there was a secret compartment. I certainly didn't require them to activate the token. If in doubt I'd say that the compartment is difficult to find (DC 20) but perhaps give Osirions a +5 racial bonus to the check.
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Some of them, however, are fairly new to D&D and having to recalculate reflex saves and skill bonuses and attack rolls and so on and so forth will discourage them and bog down the game quite a bit.
A +2 to a stat equates to a +1 to the stat bonus. Ref save, attack rolls and melee damage rolls go up by 1. Don't bother with recalculating skills unless it comes up. If the player uses a modified skill recalculate that one skill.
Shouldn't bog down the game all that much, if you tell the new players flat out what the bonuses to str and dex modify. The modified int and cha can be kept more as roleplay, only recalculating associated skills when they get used, which shouldn't be all that often.
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Some of them, however, are fairly new to D&D and having to recalculate reflex saves and skill bonuses and attack rolls and so on and so forth will discourage them and bog down the game quite a bit.A +2 to a stat equates to a +1 to the stat bonus. Ref save, attack rolls and melee damage rolls go up by 1. Don't bother with recalculating skills unless it comes up. If the player uses a modified skill recalculate that one skill.
Shouldn't bog down the game all that much, if you tell the new players flat out what the bonuses to str and dex modify. The modified int and cha can be kept more as roleplay, only recalculating associated skills when they get used, which shouldn't be all that often.
True.
Cheers! :D
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A +2 to a stat equates to a +1 to the stat bonus. Ref save, attack rolls and melee damage rolls go up by 1. Don't bother with recalculating skills unless it comes up. If the player uses a modified skill recalculate that one skill.
Shouldn't bog down the game all that much, if you tell the new players flat out what the bonuses to str and dex modify. The modified int and cha can be kept more as roleplay, only recalculating associated skills when they get used, which shouldn't be all that often.
It probably wouldn't bog the game down more than a few minutes per conversion, but it would emphasize how unfamiliar the new players are with the rules. I suspect that this sort of thing is un-fun for people. For my table that had some new players I just got their stat blocks ahead of time so that I could whip out converted versions of their characters on the fly. At cons I think that new players will just have to suck it up while other people (even the GM, if necessary) convert their characters for them.
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I ran this on Friday with the techniques I mentioned above. Went like a charm, if I do say so myself. I also did the whole dim-lights, candles and Silent Hill Soundtrack (amongst others) thing.
I also added one description - everyone who was nuts (who acted like the infected in 28 Days Later!) had bleeding eyes. Nice.
Overall, a really good scenario and a great evening, though I did forget to eat... :|
Cheers! :D
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I ran this on Friday with the techniques I mentioned above. Went like a charm, if I do say so myself. I also did the whole dim-lights, candles and Silent Hill Soundtrack (amongst others) thing.
** spoiler omitted **
Overall, a really good scenario and a great evening, though I did forget to eat... :|
Cheers! :D
We ran this on Sat, 3/5 of the party were affected by the mists in the first room. my ranger was affected, but knocked to 0 by the affected fighter before I acted. Oh, did I mention we had no healers? It was a good thing we bought potions of CLW before the scenario started, I was knocked to 0 and when they saw me snap out of it the party non-leathaled the fighter and other ranger until they were knocked out. (party was 2 rangers 2 fighters and a monk)
Edit: I just wish I could have kept the +2dex and the fighter wanted to keep the +2 STR. Having 4 INT was fun, even if I didn't get to act on it. Your dumb and mad - we just rolled a dice to figure out who we were attacking that round.
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I ran this on Friday with the techniques I mentioned above. Went like a charm, if I do say so myself. I also did the whole dim-lights, candles and Silent Hill Soundtrack (amongst others) thing.
** spoiler omitted **
Overall, a really good scenario and a great evening, though I did forget to eat... :|
Cheers! :D
We ran this on Sat, 3/5 of the party were affected by the mists in the first room. my ranger was affected, but knocked to 0 by the affected fighter before I acted. Oh, did I mention we had no healers? It was a good thing we bought potions of CLW before the scenario started, I was knocked to 0 and when they saw me snap out of it the party non-leathaled the fighter and other ranger until they were knocked out. (party was 2 rangers 2 fighters and a monk)
Edit: I just wish I could have kept the +2dex and the fighter wanted to keep the +2 STR. Having 4 INT was fun, even if I didn't get to act on it. Your dumb and mad - we just rolled a dice to figure out who we were attacking that round.
Director of Brand Strategy
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It probably wouldn't bog the game down more than a few minutes per conversion, but it would emphasize how unfamiliar the new players are with the rules. I suspect that this sort of thing is un-fun for people. For my table that had some new players I just got their stat blocks ahead of time so that I could whip out converted versions of their characters on the fly. At cons I think that new players will just have to suck it up while other people (even the GM, if necessary) convert their characters for them.
Doing quick conversions like this with the guidance of other, more experienced players, can be extremely helpful in learning a new system as well. You really get a sense of how the different stats interact with one another in doing so. So I don't think it's necessarily a negative to have new players fumbling through their conversions. The scenario didn't take too long to run through for my group, so a few minutes probably won't screw up the timing that much. Everyone's been a newbie at some point, so I can't imagine many players would object to letting a new recruit learn the system.
Alternately, I've put together an "activity sheet" of sorts, in which I attempt to spell out all the math. It's not perfect by any means, but it could help.
graçias.
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This is a bit late in the conversation to start throwing in opinions, but where does it describe anywhere in the scenario that mist-tainted PCs should attack other PCs? I have run this scenario for 4 different tables of players. At the first table I ran, the wizard made a high enough knowledge check to know about covering the nose and mouth, so no one was mist-tainted. The other three tables all had players succumb to the mist. When the save was failed I simply handed the player a copy of the mist-tainted description and told them to role-play it as they saw fit. Hillarity ensued. Usually the first thing that happens is all the armor and clothes come off, then they start climbing the rafters and shortly after that the poo begins to fly. Yes, the template states that the PCs become bloodthirsty animals, but that doesn't mean they must attack each other. You might notice that the alignment of the mist-tainted museum employees is chaotic evil. The template says nothing about an alignment shift, so one may assume that these employees were evil *before* the mist took them over and they are simply more willing to take other people's lives now. One of my tables had every single PC fail their save and become mist-tainted. Two of them were barbarians with, both with a 7 intelligence. Since their intelligence dropped a mere point, neither one of them felt much different in the mist. They just rushed into the museum and triggered multiple encounters, having a grand ole time smashing everything in sight. Anyway, the point of all this is I have yet to hear anyone with authority say "This is how it should go when a PC is mist-tainted", but I hear a lot of stories about PCs almost killing each other because they think it's the expectation. I'm interested to hear if other GMs are prompting the PCs to fight their party of if it's the player's choice.
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Director of Brand Strategy
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This is a bit late in the conversation to start throwing in opinions, but where does it describe anywhere in the scenario that mist-tainted PCs should attack other PCs?
It doesn't explicitly say this, as far as I know, but given that the museum employees have all spent the last few hours hunting and killing one another, I gather that this is what would happen to PCs as well. When I played the sceanrio the party turned on itself, but when I ran it it did not and I didn't force the issue. I think it's an effective template with either result.
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This is a bit late in the conversation to start throwing in opinions, but where does it describe anywhere in the scenario that mist-tainted PCs should attack other PCs?It doesn't explicitly say this, as far as I know, but given that the museum employees have all spent the last few hours hunting and killing one another, I gather that this is what would happen to PCs as well. When I played the sceanrio the party turned on itself, but when I ran it it did not and I didn't force the issue. I think it's an effective template with either result.
I agree, I think the mist would change people differently. An agressive person might get more bloodthirsty, while the wizardy types might just feel more 'apish' or primitive.
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RPG Superstar 2009 Top 32, 2010 Top 8
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ok reading the spoilers now, since I didn't get to play it with our Pickrington group and my home group is just begging for this.
"Rarrgh! Halfling Sorcerer smash puny cleric of Asmodeaus!"
There's an episode of Beast Wars where the Maximals are forced to stay in Beast Mode too long and their animal instincts take over. I'll have to watch that and use it for inspiration. Now if I could get my players to watch it w/o tipping them off.
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Ran this twice (once as slot 0) and I loved it!
On gameday the Barb and Sorc both failed their rolls (by 1!) and I handed out the worksheet provided upthread. This lead to some fun roleplay, including the Sorc beating to 'death' the two-headed beast, and the barb breaking into the last room a la the kool aid guy (oh ye~~~ah!).
Between the two runs I had every faction, and they each completed their tasks (the second even managed to complete their opponent's tasks), including the scarab one.
I had the most fun tossing down my cube of (36) d6's and describing them as monkeys and apes madly capering about in a demonic ritual. To which everyone wished the Sorc were in artillery mode.
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I ran this for the 9th time yesterday and something happened that hasn’t been tried previously.
I complimented them for their ingenuity but they missed out on some fun, especially since most of them would have failed their Will save. Has anyone handled this situation before?
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I ran this for the 9th time yesterday and something happened that hasn’t been tried previously. ** spoiler omitted ** They managed to win the scenario in a single act, without facing any other obstacles.
I complimented them for their ingenuity but they missed out on some fun, especially since most of them would have failed their Will save. Has anyone handled this situation before?
Our group also checked the surroundings, but never actually decided to go through the window. Going inside one by one would easily result in a TPK, if stupid enough.
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I ran this for the 9th time yesterday and something happened that hasn’t been tried previously. ** spoiler omitted ** They managed to win the scenario in a single act, without facing any other obstacles.
I complimented them for their ingenuity but they missed out on some fun, especially since most of them would have failed their Will save. Has anyone handled this situation before?
Was this the low tier or the higher tier? otherwise,
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Just played it today. The GM gave the mist-tainted the choice at the end of the scenario to have a Remove Curse cast on them (at scroll price, which was shared by the group) or to keep the mist-tainted template.
The Gnome Sorcerer, though he did quite a good imitation of Omer Simpson while tainted, chose to get his spellcasting ability back.
But I elected to keep my Halfling Rogue/Fighter Mist-tainted (even though the other guys have taken to calling him Gollum). Is this really allowed by the scenario (it does not seem to be explicitely banned) ? Would my PC still be legal for play in other PFS scenarios ?
If not, I guess I should tell the other players that we have to share the price of a second Remove Curse.
EDIT : the point about conditions that can afflict the PC in the Guide to Pathfinder Society' Organized Play (page 27, 1st column) seems to validate my GM's proposal. Still, I would like to have your thoughts about this.
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"A remove curse, break enchantment, or similar magic purges the evil vapors, removes the template, and negates the Tik Taan’s influence. In addition, if a Mist-Tainted creature is knocked unconscious, the polluting vapors leave its body and they return to normal."
Knocking someone unconscious is a lot cheaper than Remove Curse. That's what we did anyway.
As to the player deciding to "keep" the curse-template:
"If the Tik Taan are destroyed, the primates are freed of Angazhan’s mad embrace and try to flee the museum in sudden confusion. The mists infesting the museum vanish as well, and everyone under their control is freed."
So no keeping the curse.
Of course, there is the possibility the Pathfinders botch the mission and the curse never gets lifted. In this case I'd say judging from the mist-tainted description, that the character is effectively unplayable:
"Any living humanoid, giant, or monstrous humanoid who fails his DC 12 Will save against the mist’s corrupting influence degenerates into a raving madman, little more than a bloodthirsty animal."
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Navdi is absolutely correct. Your GM didn't read the scenario carefully enough else he would have caught this. You would be within your rights to contact him for a new Chronicle Sheet minus the shared cost of the remove curse spell. A remove curse only costs 150gp for a NPC spellcaster to cast it at a local temple of shrine (GtPSOP pg 21) for future reference.
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I like very much the idea to get a template during an official game.
What's a pity to give it back after the end of the game !
I think that we should have a way to keep it.
The price is cheap and correct : CR+1. There is something original to get a template in a "official game". I have never seen in Living Arcanis or Living Greyhawk this rule.
Maybe for the future, this template could be increase ! The cursed mist of Blakros Museum is vanished (Thanks to PC) but not the source of the curse... in the Mwangi jungle.
A second module will be in the Mwangi jungle with the possibility to increase the mist-tainted template or to get it (with its rank 1 based on module #5 Mists of Mwangi).
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I'm planning on running this mod in a couple of days and I had a question about how to handle the treasure found in game for tiers 1-2...
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Wicht, the spear becomes part of the loot that goes toward the gold the PCs receive at the end of the scenario. You will see below the paragraph where it describes the spear it says:
Rewards: If Da’Tunga and the Tik Taan are defeated,
reward each Tier thusly:
Tier 1–2
Give each player 167 gp.
Tier 4–5
Give each player 692 gp.
If you cut the value of the spear (2000 gp) in half for selling it and divide that by 6 PCs you get 167 gp. Same for the +1 vicious spear at higher levels.
There's no adjustment if there are less or more than 6 PCs that actually play the scenario you run. The nature of organized play campaigns make it so that everyone gets the same gold rewards so long as they succeed. If more gold could be earned by playing with fewer PCs on the table there might be some unfortunate behavior if players felt greedy.
There is a gold "cap" but there's no gold "floor". For Mists of Mwangi, the most the players can walk away with at Tier 1-2 is 480 gp. Even if they loot to entire museum, tear it apart and sell the scraps, the most they can walk away with is whatever is listed as the Max Gold on the Chronicle Sheet.
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We got ran through this game a few weeks ago. 4 out of 6 players were affected by the mist.
1. When the mists took over all NPCs, they went into a blind rage and killed those not affected, as evidenced by what we saw in the office. Our DM ruled that we were "feral", but allowed us to discern friend from enemy. He also said that none of us would use weapons, as we now had a slam attack. Why should the PCs have been any different? Why wouldn't we have killed those unaffected?
2. Our wizard eventually figured out that being knocked unconscious expelled the mists. So, he hit the four affected with color spray and knocked them silly. Unfortunately, one passed. The party then beat him unconscious with subdual. Does this break the whole idea of one Pathfinder shall not attack another?
3. The game never stated what happens to the inhabitents of the museum once the wooden monkeys are defeated. One faction member hadn't completed his quest yet. The DM figured out some way for him to accomplish it, but I was wondering how something so obvious could be overlooked. Apparently, the mists were still suppose to be in affect for the party member to complete his quest. All I remember is it involved the bathroom. Was there any sort of backup plan for the mists being gone before faction quests are accomplished?
4. While the monkey fight was cool, it was hard to deal with the idols. The DM eventually decided to have everybody make spot checks at the beginning of the round, and then randomly placed statues around the room, for us to attempt to reach and kill. How did other groups deal with this? I mean, it worked, but it kinda suspended rules by randomly removing them from play and replacing them. He explained it as "the statues keep hiding among the other monkeys. You need to spot them each round to attack them."
Kudo's over all on the adventure. Very spooky and fun. Our DM told us to think of the movie "The Mist," befor we went in. Great job!
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By no means do I represent the officials at Paizo on this topic, but here are my thoughts:
"1.) When the mists took over all NPCs, they went into a blind rage and killed those not affected, as evidenced by what we saw in the office. Our DM ruled that we were "feral", but allowed us to discern friend from enemy. He also said that none of us would use weapons, as we now had a slam attack. Why should the PCs have been any different? Why wouldn't we have killed those unaffected?"
The NPCs were already evil-aligned when the Mist overtook them. Their evil natures were unleashed from normal conventions when they were Mist-Tainted so taking lives became much more acceptable. PCs that are not evil-aligned don't necessarily react the same way. Not using weapons while Mist-Tainted is good for role-play, but the museum employees also weren’t adventurers and weren’t armed when the Mist overcame them. I’d say your GM had a good notion about how to enhance role-play and left the decision on attacking your fellow PCs up to each player.
"2.) Our wizard eventually figured out that being knocked unconscious expelled the mists. So, he hit the four affected with color spray and knocked them silly. Unfortunately, one passed. The party then beat him unconscious with subdual. Does this break the whole idea of one Pathfinder shall not attack another?"
I think that the author expected some interparty conflict here since he seemed to address how to rid oneself of the Mist Tainted template (unconsciousness). I think based on reports from other tables that as long as it doesn’t get out of hand and is done in “the best interests” of the affected PCs then it’s OK. I’d like to note that I’ve run this scenario five or six times and I’ve never had a player attack another player. That doesn’t mean it shouldn’t ever happen.
"3.) The game never stated what happens to the inhabitants of the museum once the wooden monkeys are defeated. One faction member hadn't completed his quest yet. The DM figured out some way for him to accomplish it, but I was wondering how something so obvious could be overlooked. Apparently, the mists were still supposed to be in effect for the party member to complete his quest. All I remember is it involved the bathroom. Was there any sort of backup plan for the mists being gone before faction quests are accomplished?"
The Andorans were supposed to save the half-orc custodian and failing that, recover his ring of museum keys. The keys were in the belly of a constrictor snake, attracted to the jungle mists, that crawled out of the sewer and devoured the half-orc. If the PCs skipped this encounter and went straight to the final Act then the scenario does not address whether the snake stays or leaves. In the past I have allowed creative PCs who missed this mission to pay for a “locate object” spell and track down the python afterward.
"4.) While the monkey fight was cool, it was hard to deal with the idols. The DM eventually decided to have everybody make spot checks at the beginning of the round, and then randomly placed statues around the room, for us to attempt to reach and kill. How did other groups deal with this? I mean, it worked, but it kinda suspended rules by randomly removing them from play and replacing them. He explained it as "the statues keep hiding among the other monkeys. You need to spot them each round to attack them."
The way I handled it was to play “Keep Away” with the idols and allow Da’Tunga to tear into the PCs. Once the idols were spotted by a PC I would not try to hide them again. If cornered they would fight, but I have learned that if the idols get into the fight while the great ape is still active they can prove too much for many parties to handle. They are a distraction since the real threat is Da’Tunga. There are small grass huts scattered about the room that the idols can use as concealment if the GM plays it that way. In general I have the idols busy silently exhorting Da’Tunga with their body language and egging on the PCs.
Venture-Captain, Missouri—Cape Girardeau
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I ran this last weekend two sessions back-to-back at our FLGS. I made hand-out cards for the Mist-Affected template for the PCs, just in case.
Th other party, succumbed to the mists, all except the cleric who set about knocking them unconscious as best he could. Due to this, the second party used subdual damage against the NPCs... and they all survived. Added to that, they had a bard, who was able to use the countersong ability of the scroll (an extra advantage).
Both parties dubbed the Giant Ape in the final encounter "Donkey Kong!"
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I take it no one has converted this module to PFRPG...
CJ
I converted the module to PFRPG and everything is on 4 sheets of Game Mechanic Monster cards. I just don't have anywhere to post it.
Scott.
No biggie, the mod is monster-heavy so conversion isn't a pain. What did you do about the crocodile though?