
aceDiamond |

Or King Arthur. Beowulf, maybe. If you ask me, the problem is that high level magic in Pathfinder is too much fun to not want to play an epic caster. There's a video commentary I watched a while back that says something along the lines of "more versatility = more fun" and subsequently that martial only classes have less versatile combat abilities. Sure, you can do combat maneuvers that don't involve hitting people outright, but your bag of tricks comes out a bit smaller in comparison, even if your tricks do have more punch.
As to MonkeyG, do you know when you take DD? Is it as soon as you can get it and then you build sorcerer levels after maxing Dragon Disciple? Oris it 15 straight up levels of Sorcerer and then branching out. Because it seems like your favored class bonus spells will depend directly on the specifics of your build.
Furthermore, it just says your race is Half-Dragon. Isn't that a template that takes up CR? And I'm assuming the other half is human, right?

Pirate |

Yar!
What do you guys think of the spell list I posted above? I still have at least 15 spells left to pick.
You have Fiery Shuriken twice. As a sorcerer, this does not compute. Hence my earlier suggestions of two other 2nd level fire themed spells that I think are cool. You literally have one more potential spell to know of 2nd level before favorite spells and the Expanded Arcana feat are taken into consideration. They were not a suggested change, but a suggested addition.
Other than that, I think it's a fun selection. I'll think of other thematic spells, but aceDiamond has a good point: What was your actual level progression? This will determine how many spells of what level you actually get.
~P

aceDiamond |

The way Dragon Disciple and that template is set up, you'll be casting like a 20th level sorcerer when we start. The exact layout seems like it will only determine how your favored class bonus can be allocated.
But Monkey, I do have one question. Why with the Create Greater Demiplane? Don't we already have a base of operations?

Pirate |

Yar!
Well (not to speak for others, but), not all of us have paid the 23k for living space in our "base". Options are also nice to have. Validk's demi-plane could be akin to our headquarters, where work gets done, while Monkeygods/Zashier's demiplane could be more akin to our summer cabin for relaxation. It was briefly described HERE. There is also what fits for each characters personal backstory and personality. Just because one person can do something, it doesn't mean that no one else can. Monkeygod was also playing with the idea of demiplanes for over a month now. Also: Validk's and Zashier's intended demiplanes are both (from what I've read) quite different things in both style and purpose, so it can be beneficial to have both.
Based on what I currently know, Sir Orrin would most likely enjoy Zashier's demiplane more than Validk's anyways. Simply from the atmosphere of "business" vs "leisure".
Besides, from a party balance perspective, while you want each person to be able to bring something unique, you also want to have backups for each other, otherwise you could end up in a situation where only one person can possible handle a given situation, and if that one person is taken out, we're screwed. However, if we have a bit over overlap every once in a while, we can be in situations where our primary character for dealing with a situation can be indisposed of and we'd still have a chance (even a lesser chance) to still succeed. I personally do not think that having a little bit of spell/skill overlap equates to "stepping on each others toes".
Just my thoughts/opinions.
~P

aceDiamond |

Besides, from a party balance perspective, while you want each person to be able to bring something unique, you also want to have backups for each other, otherwise you could end up in a situation where only one person can possible handle a given situation, and if that one person is taken out, we're screwed. However, if we have a bit over overlap every once in a while, we can be in situations where our primary character for dealing with a situation can be indisposed of and we'd still have a chance (even a lesser chance) to still succeed. I personally do not think that having a little bit of spell/skill overlap equates to "stepping on each others toes".
Just my thoughts/opinions.
~P
I guess that is true, though. I remember mentioning this sort of thing to Fnord recently about Reverse Gravity. Though that reminds me of an idea I had if anyone was willing to listen. Since not everyone can move around at will, maybe we should have some kind of buddy system for getting people to where they want to be. Caster buddies can learn either Greater Teleport or Plane Shift and make sure they get their perspective buddy to where they need to be. A martial buddy would get with someone who knew both spells to make sure they don't get left behind. Sound like a good plan?
Also, speaking of Plane Shift, I recently found this feat which would be incredibly helpful to anybody wishing to get the precision of Gate while still using Plane Shift. Though, as a story feat, we must spend one night in a haunted hou- er, I mean, in another plane.

Pirate |

Yar.
Seems like Herald's been gone for over a week, now. Has he been on the boards at all? It says that he hasn't made a post since last Sunday. Is it time to start being concerned?
I'm already concerned. Game wise I've been concerned for a while as it has now been 23 days since our deadline to see who is in with what. Of greater immediate concern is that it has been 9 days since his last post with any of his aliases.
I do hope he's okay. 9 days is a long time to be away from anything you're committed to without notice.
:/
~P

Sir Orrin Neville-Smythe |

Heh. That feat would work great for me... except for the prereqs. I was born on Golarion and don't know of any outsider influence in my heritage. But I have spent large amounts of time in other planes of existence. I traveled the Void for many days on my way to Penumbra, home world of the Illithids in the distant corner of the Void. Then an accident on the return trip sent me to Toril, a prime world in a different dimension. Then I ended up fighting in Hell/Baator for over a week straight before making it back home.
Alas, even if I met the prereqs, I don't think I could willingly remove my martial training from my memory for it.
...and as you can probably tell, I'm used to finding physical portals and other means to travel the planes. Just finding the portal or device to grant planar travel can be quite the adventure in and of itself! Though I'll admit that casting planar spanning magic is more convenient (I've had companions do so for me in the past). I'm only just starting to develop the gifts of magic through devotion to my mistress and goddess Chaldira Zuzaristan, and do not yet have to practice to travel the planes with it yet. One day perhaps? But not yet.

aceDiamond |

I probably should learn Gate, just because travel seems like it will be obscenely useful in this game. Probably won't use the summoning part of the spell often because, dang, that's a lot of gold, but I'll definitely hold open the door for anyone who needs a quick portal to another dimension on the fly.
The only problem is that I'm just not sure what to give up to learn it. I would certainly think of dropping Mage's Disjunction if another spontaneous caster picked it up, though. "Sorry, Val, but I just can't feel easy with how many times you'll prepare Disjunction in a single day..."
Also, sorry to hear that you're leaving, Eben. We'll miss you.

Grand Moff Vixen |

Other than what I have there, no. My workload is high with work and I am getting a lot of overtime lately. That is quite tiring right now. I am not on call this weekend so I will get more done during that time.
I do have some background though. I think that I have a good enough feel for her that I can portray her personality without any issues if play started.

Pirate |

Yar!
Still here, still just waiting. I've no plans to abandon ship, but unless we actually start a game thread for some pre-game RPing and fleshing out/sharing/creating joined backstories, there isn't much left (for me) to say other than responding to questions.
On the question front: I'm still curious as to what Zash is going to pick as his final 2nd level spell and what his leveling looked like so we can figure out what level his bonus spells can be and what they will be.
I'm also still curious as to what Gobo Horde is actually going to create/play.
Personally, I was going to give Herald another few days (probably the 30th as that is the one month anniversary of his original concept deadline) before officially posting on hte recruitment side of things again for any ambitious GM's willing to take even some of us on.
If, for example, there was an accident and Herald broke a bone, he could end up stuck in a hospital fro up to several months (depending on which bone and the severity of the break). It still could be that he still wants to run this, but has been physically incapable even getting to a computer to log on and tell us what's up.
It has been 13 days since his last post.
If it was a hospitalizing accident that isn't critical (making him unavailable for months or more), once he gets better enough to be online, he's probably going to have lots of time to run this (gotta keep your mind busy when you potentially can't work due to an injury), so I'm willing to wait another few days/a week to find out. But not much longer than that before starting in earnest the search for a replacement GM.
Until then, I've been keeping myself busy with other games and real life activities. I check this thread every time I log in, but - as I said - unless we start some self run RPing for generating true pre-game interactions between are characters and/or someone asks questions about their character or rules or whatever, then there isn't really much more for me to add at this point, sorry to say. :/
~P

Monkeygod |

The vast majority of games I've played in above level 1 wherein a PC has multiclassed or taken a PrC they are usually just built as if they were always that level.
So Zash has "always" been level 25, at least as far as those kind of choices go. It makes things much easier, and less complicated. Thus, I would pick bonus spells for any spell level I have access to.

aceDiamond |

Well, if you pick up Disjunction, I'll get Gate. Or whatever way you'll enjoy doing that sort of thing.
Also, I'm really not against starting interactions and the like. Just not sure how to start other than the old trope of a character waking up and playing detective to find out what happened the night before.

Pirate |

Yar!
The vast majority of games I've played in above level 1 wherein a PC has multiclassed or taken a PrC they are usually just built as if they were always that level.
So Zash has "always" been level 25, at least as far as those kind of choices go. It makes things much easier, and less complicated. Thus, I would pick bonus spells for any spell level I have access to.
Huh. I've never experienced that. While I agree that it makes it easier, it also makes things less accurate. I think that's a big assumption to make, and isn't something I've never done, but if that's how we're doing it, cool.
~P

Pirate |

Yar!
Who would care, you ask? The GM might. Other player who care about fairness in character creation might.
Now, I'm not saying you have to do something (especially as I'm no the GM and have no desire to be), however, it is not actually possible to do that (pick only 9th level spells for your favorite class bonuses) by the rules of the game, unless you chose a different bonus for your first several levels (as one cannot start in a PrC, nor get access to 9th level spells with only 1 PrC without a few levels in the favorite class first).
I just have a habit of always assuming the rules are being followed unless stated otherwise. Hence why I originally asked for your level progression so that I could make meaningful suggestions.
An analogy could be a Fighter's bonus feats. One can only take combat feats they meet the prereqs for when he gains that bonus feat, but if we don't bother with level progression, then he could choose every bonus feat with prereqs he could not possible have until late in that character's adventuring career (such as BAB+9, despite it technically having to have been taken at level 1). So (again, this is just in my opinion) if we're following the rules of the game, it actually does matter.
However, if we're all in agreement that it doesn't in this case, then cool. I'll roll with it and offer suggestions.
AceDiamond and Fnord have a good point about the template. Also, even before favorite class spell bonuses, you have one more 2nd level spell you can know (based on your last list).
My apologies if it seems that I'm being harsh or overly critical. That is not my intent. I just want to help, if you'll allow me to.
EDIT: Word twisting/intent interpreting time! The favorite class bonus states: "Add one spell known from the sorcerer spell list. This spell must be at least one level below the highest spell level the sorcerer can cast." Note that it doesn't say "at the time he gains this level" (though I assume that was the intent). So if we amend it to be "can /eventually/ cast", then every bonus spell known could be an 8th level spell, as sorcerers can eventually cast 9th level spells.
What does everyone else think?
~P

Monkeygod |

I never said I would only pick 9th level spells as my bonus spells.
What I said was, "If I want to be able to pick 9th level bonus spells via my favored class, I will make damn sure I level him in such a way as to get them.".
That's a copy/paste btw, go double check.
So.
I am not only picking 9th level bonus, because I never said I would.
I will however pick two extra 9th level spells, because you need to have a tenth level slot, which you only get a 21st level, and you get an 11th lvl slot at 23rd.
Though, technically, those aren't actual 10th and 11th level spells, so I wonder if they count?
Thankfully, I haven't chosen said bonus spells yet, but other casters might have.
Also this:
Spellcasters who have a limited number of spells known (such as bards and sorcerers) can opt out of the benefits they gain (either a new level of spells or a number of spell slots) for that level and in exchange learn two more spells of any level they can currently cast.
Guess whose a Sorcerer???
Like I said, it doesn't matter, because I will gain extra 9th level spells, one way or another.

aceDiamond |

I'm pretty sure it means "at this level", as you can theoretically cast 10th level metamagically affected spells. The RAI as I read it says that as a 10th level human sorcerer, you can use your Favored Class Bonus to get an extra 4th level spell, as the highest level you can cast is a 5th level spell.

aceDiamond |

Just trying to figure out your build is all. Because as I see it, you're actually effectively casting as a 20th level sorcerer. If I'm seeing it right, Dragon Disciple has three levels where you don't advance your spellcasting and your Half-Dragon template takes two levels in CR. But this is just how I'm seeing it, I may be wrong. It's just that how I understand it, you'll only know four 9th level spells, one of which being Wish from your bloodline.
If I'm wrong, please let me know how I'm misunderstanding.

Pirate |

Yar.
Yup, I read that. And one possible implication of that sentence is that one could do so if they wanted to, even if you specifically were not. My response above is not limited to only that single interpretation of what you wrote, but any number of statements that imply going against the notion of "gain an extra spell known that must be one level lower than the highest spell level one can cast at the level you gain the bonus" (paraphrasing). EDIT: particularly in the case of spells known gained via the favorite class bonus.
And yes, the guidelines for epic level characters does say that. What it means for a sorcerer with 25 levels is that guideline only applies to the last 5 levels gained (levels 21, 22, 23, 24, & 25).
Again, while you did not explicitly state that you will pick nothing but 8th or 9th level spells for your favorite class bonuses, your statement can easily be interpreted to include that option. The fact that you stated: "Thus, I would pick bonus spells for any spell level I have access to" (copy-paste), and in reply to requested level progression, stated " it actually doesn't matter" (copy-paste), then it is quite reasonable to assume that you mean that you could indeed have the ability to choose any level of bonus spell known for your favorite class bonus regardless of what level of spell you could cast when you got the bonus spell known, even though you did not state exactly that. Based on my reading of your text over the course of several posts, that is what seemed to be implied.
All I was saying is that this is the reason why level progression matters (to me, at least). If all of this is not true, then I apologize for the misinterpretation, however that also means that level progression really does matter, so that we can know how many spells of what level you can choose for this bonus. Again, I'm willing to go the other way by group consensus.
EDIT: Ace brings up a good point again. With the +2 CR half-dragon template and the DD's reduced spell progression, you'd not have 10th level spell slots anyways.
EDIT 2: clarified some thoughts.
~P

Monkeygod |

So, I'm going to bow out of this game, as I am not a fan of being attacked by my fellow players.
That may not have been your intention, but my interpretation is that you are. While not explicitly stated as such, there are several instances where one could imply that.
Have fun, though I doubt this game will go anywhere.
GMV, expect a PM from me eventually.

aceDiamond |

I'm sorry you thought that we were attacking you, Monkey. That wasn't my intention.
And I do hope you stick around, GMV. With you, me, Fnord, and Pirate, we've got a preliminary group set up. All we need is the GM, so we still have the option of going to the recruitment thread and finding someone for us.

Pirate |

Yar.
That is truly unfortunate and a bit unexpected. I am sorry that you (Monkeygod) felt that way.
As for the GM issue, I was planning on posting a new recruitment thread after my RL game tonight (so I'd be making it in about 11 hours from now). I really do want to see this game get off the ground, and my intentions were never to trim the flock as it were (I seriously would have loved to RP with all of the original group who showed interest ... I was really looking forward to Zash's demiplane as well).
I'm still up for some pre-game RPing just amongst ourselves to keep us interested in our characters and to flesh them out even more.
And again, I have limited time to post right now, but later tonight I was planning on (and will) post a new recruitment thread searching for a replacement GM.
~P

Pirate |

Yar!
I have created a new recruitment thread looking for a new GM.
Why a new thread? I have 2 reasons for doing so:
1) (I find that) people are more likely to look into a recruitment thread when it's new and has a lower post count beside it, as it is then more likely that it will offer them something they can be involved with.
2) I can give it a title that more clearly describes what we are and what we need.
It is located HERE.
Here's hoping it will garner some attention, we can get a dedicated GM, and we can get this epic level game off the ground! :D
~P