Hopefully the date's still wrong and you get it much sooner! And gratz!!
So are we going to RP the Journey or we we want to fast forward the trip?
A little bit of both. I've got a short bandit bit before you hit Ravenmoor. By the time they're both done I should have my book and it's back to Sandpoint (fast forward) for the Swallowtail Festival and the start of the AP. Finally!
I had electricity problems for a day, will be able to post today/tomorrow
problem fixed, will soon be able to post again
Hope everyone enjoyed the long weekend
What long weekend?
anyway, finalized my character, in accordance with Ninja I replaced Battle Sorcerer for Eldritch Godling without losing anything from the concept but adding "oriental divine dragon flavor".
Can someone please post how to add in Alias the short list of most important things? (AC, Perception, HP, and such) I can't find that here.
Example of this is how Sparrow has these near his name when posting.
You know where you put Gender/race/class in the profile,
you put it in there.
and it was the August long weekend in Canada.
ah, thanks, and I didn't know we have that many Canadians here :)
Note: I hope everyone (except me) made their choice for the favored class bonus already, and those having multitalented didn't forget to count both their favored classes
as I finalized my char did I notice my own mistake of forgetting about that
Hey Ninja,
I decided that I want to try out a superstition based barbarian build and was wondering if I could swap my race from half-orc to human to take advantage of the human alternate favoured class option, or if I could just take it as a half-orc anyway?
personal opinion: I think you should remain the same race, and I support the idea of just allowing you to take that archetype ignoring the racial requirement
(btw, aren't you as half-orc as per rules already considered as both orc and human, and thus could take human-only classes and feats anyway?)
I know Half-orc count as humans for feats,
but I don't think Half-orcs count as humans for class based stuff, like Class specific favored class bonuses or Archetypes.
I know half-elves can take elven classes/archetypes, that is why I think half-orcs are the same with human and orc stuff
Looking over a few pages I don't think so Ryu
Racial Archetypes are locked, Half-Elves can not take either Elven or Human Archetypes,
and Most classes that specify a racial requirement of elf next to always includes half-elf in the list as do any that specify Orc generally have Half-orc included on the racial list.
If the above is true than that will include favored class bonuses as well, meaning he can only take the half-orc options as the human list is specific to humans only and does not include any text that allows the half-orc or half-elf to take their Favored class bonuses.
Spiral, hope I'm not speaking out of turn here but wouldn't that natural 20 on Brin be an automatic hit?
@kaddoc: are you referring to the +1/3 bonus to the superstition FC alternate?
Looks like 2 races get it; humans and tengus. Odd combo there. Hm.
Alkaid, just some quotes quickly googled.
The Helf-Elf racial ability says, "Elf Blood: Half-elves count as both elves and humans for *any* effect related to race."
You count as elf for the purposes of feats, class features (such as favored enemy), accessing prestige classes (few of these left that have racial requirements), and magical effects (such as spells and magical items).
For example, as a half-orc can I take the Eclectic feat?
Yes.
Half orcs count as both human and orc, and qualify for human-only and orc-only feats/traits/etc.
You know, I just read the Racial Heritage Feat, and it says something interesting when you pay attention to the terminology in the feat.
Choose another humanoid race. You count as both human and that race for any effects related to race. For example, if you choose dwarf, you are considered both a human and a dwarf for the purpose of taking traits, feats, how spells and magic items affect you, and so on.Half-Orcs and Half-Elves are considered as both Human and Orc or Elf, respectively, for the purpose of effects related to race, which is the same terminology of the feat, I would have to say Half-Orcs qualify for purely Orc or purely Human feats.
Half-Elves and Half-Orcs can take race related archetypes/classes/prestige classes/feats, humans can even take non-human racial traits in a way, this is the main reason why the Advanced Racial Guide is heavily "houseruled" in the PFS and much of these are restricted/disallowed, they didn't want to see Half-Elven Ancient Lorekeepers, as example.
So, reading deeper into it, Ninja has the final word on it of course but as per RAW there is no problem with a half-orc taking a class with a human race requirement archetype. :)
It isn't anything overpowered either, and even a Lorekeeper can be explained let's say by it being educated by its elven father/mother.
Spiral, hope I'm not speaking out of turn here but wouldn't that natural 20 on Brin be an automatic hit?
Mutters rude things to herself about reading only the final numbers...then goes to confirm the crit.
@Kaddoc, Alkaid, & Ryu: OK, I'll let him take it as half-orc, given his backstory.
Scroll down to the bottom
Half-orc d20pfsrd I don't see any human archetypes, and looking at the favored class stuff, nope, no human stuff there either.
The stuff you are referencing does not cover Favored Class alternatives, and unfortunately some posts can contradict other posts and the words " and so on." are not always all encompassing as things get changed or added that it was not suppose to allow.
d20pfsrd is constantly updated and modified, some feats or races are still not being easily accessed through it but through redirections you can find them there, ARG stuff is also pretty new, and they still have issues/bugs/typos in older archetypes and such. Anyway, GM has ruled it accepted, have fun with it Kaddoc, that is the most important :)
OK, while my rling for this game only still stands, I did fid this from the FAQ:
Can a half-elf or half-orc select racial favored class options from the human entry in the Advanced Player's Guide (page 23)?
No. While half-elves and half-orcs do count as humans "for any effect related to race", racial favored class options do not count as an effect.
—Jason Bulmahn, 08/13/10
Note: I bolded that part.
well, that is for leveling, too bad but he can still take +1 hp per level or so
Nice. I appreciate it.
I would have had no problem swapping races and modifying my backstory to fit, but this makes things much easier.
Regardless of any other outcome, that bandit will never have children 8P
He could always adopt. :P
Unless he already sired a few.
Type: Outsider (Native) and Human(Humanoid)
So I count as both Outsider(Native) and Human, for spells and effects. So I can be effected by Charm Person, Hold person, etc.
I'll edit that part away if you want it to be edited away and change my action.
Nice map, much better than the spreadsheet I would use in google docs.
how far is any settlement from where we met the bandits?
Back home now and catching up on my games. It'll only last for a short time though (about 30+ hours) before I leave for Gencon, but I'll have a post up shortly.
Galduria is about a day and a half.
I don't see it but, sure, we can discuss alignment. So we are all on the same page, I'm going to quote from the source material and bold what I think you may find relevant (based on your statements) and italicize what I believe I'm emphasizing or will be emphasizing (as opportunities present themselves) in Straehan's character.
Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include closed-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, self-righteousness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.
Chaos implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.
Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has some respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is generally honest, but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.
Looking at the definition, I don't see where you are drawing a chaotic vibe from Straehan. He hasn't snubbed authority or taken any glee in seeing anyone else snub it. He hasn't been reckless or arbitrary. You may not understand his logic but that doesn't mean his choices are irrational. I think the situation is the reverse, actually. Nearly all of his actions have been purposeful and to a point. Including the CdD which was both within his personal code and served the secondary purpose of demonstrating to the prisoners what a lack of compliance and cooperation was going to net them. And I don't see where he's been irresponsible or unreliable. He's never broken a promise, gone on a bender, killed randomly, or defied any legitimate authority. Admittedly, he follows his own set of rules but, where those don't conflict with the town 'standards', he is happy to defer to the local laws and customs. Case in point, the cremation held by Ryu. He claimed a familial right to decide how the bodies would be handled and Straehan abided by it, respecting the claim.
Good implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings. Good characters make personal sacrifices to help others.
Evil implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient. Others actively pursue evil, killing for sport or out of duty to some evil deity or master.
People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent, but may lack the commitment to make sacrifices to protect or help others.
Clearly Straehan empathizes with the victims and sees eliminating a bunch of bandits as a 'public good'. From that you can correctly infer that killing innocents is not something he'd do. Is he ready to kill bad-guys instead of worrying about redeeming them? Yep... but again that isn't evil or chaotic. For him, 'hope' in redemption falls into the category of zealous optimism (see the LN stuff below) as there is no basis in reality for it and it is (I think we all agree) very solidly in the 'good' camp. Straehan is Neutral, not Good. Putting it in the terms above, Strae 'lacks the commitment' to spend his time trying to 'help others' (bandits) find salvation. He'll leave that to their various deities after he plants them 6' under. Would he try to help a commoner who fell on rough times? Quite possibly... but as soon as those bandits threw down, without even an attempt to do a 'simple robbery', Straehan's personal code kicked in. Someone tries to kill him, their life is forfeit - end of story. You will note the only bandit he offed is the one he actually fought. The others that fired on the wagon got a pass as did those that surrendered. He didn't violate anyone else's agreement with the bandits. He handled his own business.
Lawful neutral means you are reliable and honorable without being a zealot.
Back in the day, one of the examples that was often used to characterize a LN character was the dutiful Samurai. He worked for his Daimyo - right or wrong - and was unswerving in that duty whether that Daimyo was evil or good. While he was polite and respectful as the culture required, he wouldn't hesitate to lop off the head of a commoner who didn't show the proper respect or if he had orders to do so. While Strae isn't that blood-thirsty, being vaguely concerned with the 'general good', he is a pragmatist and believes utterly in personal accountability. You make your bed and you lie in it. He holds everyone, including himself, to that standard. That is the central theme of his personal code. So to him, all the talk of redemption and hypotheticals about what may or may not have 'driven' the bandits to banditry are rationalizations and excuses. They made a choice and are responsible for their actions. The 'whys' are irrelevant. You will never hear Straehan say "I had to do it" or "they forced me into it". The only time that becomes a vaguely acceptable justification would be if someone were mind-controlled. Otherwise, you always have a choice, even if that choice is to 'refuse to do X' and die for it.
So, you've said that Straehan 'feels' chaotic - what makes you think that?
From My eyes I see,
Law implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority, and reliability. On the downside, lawfulness can include closed-mindedness, reactionary adherence to tradition, self-righteousness, and a lack of adaptability. Those who consciously promote lawfulness say that only lawful behavior creates a society in which people can depend on each other and make the right decisions in full confidence that others will act as they should.
Chaos implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility. On the downside, chaos can include recklessness, resentment toward legitimate authority, arbitrary actions, and irresponsibility. Those who promote chaotic behavior say that only unfettered personal freedom allows people to express themselves fully and lets society benefit from the potential that its individuals have within them.
Someone who is neutral with respect to law and chaos has some respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel. She is generally honest, but can be tempted into lying or deceiving others.
You followed your personal conscience when you CdG the bandit, and resented Alkaid for going to lecture you.
resentment toward legitimate authority, i.e. Ryu (a lawful Noble) got the bandits to surrender (meaning they are now unarmed civilians) and you CdG a unconscious bandit, and talked back to Ryu (a lawful Noble), and a Representive of the Church (Me).
So If I had to peg your alignment right now, it is closer to True Neutral, tilting to law and tilting now more to Neutral evil, since killing an unarmed, or unconscious person is murder, and you seemed to have no qualms about doing so.
A person spending enough time could probably explain eating babies as Lawful Good and bringing a utopia to mankind as Chaotic Evil. Alignment is a stupid concept, in the way it's implemented in Pathfinder (and D&D as well). But this is my own opinion on the subject.
I am curious on a few things though. Straehan isn't from Sandpoint. In fact, we aren't in Sandpoint. I don't believe the Kaijitsu's have much control this far out, so not sure Ryu would count as legitimate authority. And unless he follows your church, not sure he that you count as legitimate authority either.
And another thing I want to ask. How does a bandit become an unarmed civilian? Unarmed yes I understand, but they made an Active Decision to try to kill us. That means they are not civilians, but rather prisoners.
Heck, just to get it out there, will the handling (and execution) of prisoners become an issue? Or should we start investing in saps and manacles and other non-lethal implements (Oooh, boxing glove arrows to knock out da bad guys!). The occasional moral dilemma can be fun, but I'd rather not have a discourse on why we can't douse the troll in acid because we might be able to convert it. (There's actually a great story about a troll being converted, but that's for another time).
I don't care much about alignment except where it impacts a class. Divine casters should have to pay attention to their deity's requirements. Other than that, most people don't know or care about alignment and asking, even ooc is, IMO, meta. I would prefer no in-character meta disputes over alignment. I don't object to RPing your objections to Straehan's act, just don't do it in terms of discussing his alignment. I'd rather see you all sit down IC and discuss what to do the next time before the situation comes up, rather than waste game-time for meta discussions about alignment. You can have such discussions in discussion - that's what it's for, but not in the game thread.
As for treatment of prisoners, that again is an individual decision.
In Magnimar-ruled Varisia the options are: execution (usually by beheading), imprisonment, or forced labor. Also, depending on the crime, some prisoners can be assigned to borderlands military units to work out their crimes and (hopefully) earn redemption.
Suddenly I'm glad I did not take devour soul as a trait.
Before I adapted my concept to the campaign specifics I had it listed.
Gotta be careful eating those souls. I mean, some of those mean bandit souls can make you sick for a week from how twisted and corrupted they are. And you might get addicited to sugary sweet souls. It's like soul cocaine. Why do you thinkg daemons are so eager, the buncha soul addicts.
And thanks for the response Ninja!
That's why chaotic neural is the way to go. You can pretty much do what you want. Being the goody two shoes is boring.
"That's the problem with heroes, really. Their only purpose in life is to thwart others. They make no plans, develop no strategies. They react instead of act. Without villains, heroes would stagnate. Without heroes, villains would be running the world. Heroes have morals. Villains have work ethic."
- Peter David in The Last Avengers Story
I don't care much about alignment except where it impacts a class. Divine casters should have to pay attention to their deity's requirements. Other than that, most people don't know or care about alignment and asking, even ooc is, IMO, meta.
I completely agree. I'll ignore this subject in future after I've responded to Alkaid's latest remarks. I'll try to limit my comments to the qualities that LN characters exhibit.
You followed your personal conscience when you CdG the bandit, and resented Alkaid for going to lecture you.
I suppose I could have put in more context to define Straehan's comment. Although I'm not sure how you read 'resentment' from this:
Strae's response is non-plussed. "Save yourself the speech on ethics; Anyone who tries to end my life gives up their breathing privileges - period, full stop."
That was both a statement on his 'code' and a literal statement - that she was wasting her time trying to convince him that her view was more valid than his own.
Resentment toward legitimate authority, i.e. Ryu (a lawful Noble) got the bandits to surrender (meaning they are now unarmed civilians) and you CdG a unconscious bandit, and talked back to Ryu (a lawful Noble), and a Representive of the Church (Me).
First, local authority doesn't trump Strae's personal code as I explained in my previous response.
Second, as an outsider Straehan doesn't know the local power structure or if Ryu has a place in it. While his family may be powerful, that doesn't equate to him personally being a power in town or that the family is in a position of 'rulership'.Third, nowhere in the description of Law does it say a Lawful character must respect each and every authority or with what level of dedication. It is a set of guidelines not an absolute.
Fourth, the 'legitimacy' of Alkaid's authority is debatable at best - based on her questionable behavior (a religious 'authority' going on a drunken bender?) and lack of position in the local clergy. As Straehan is an atheist, religious authority means little to him in any event.
Basically, Strae will be polite and possibly deferential to obvious authorities or someone holding a title like 'Lord Mayor' or 'Sheriff'. But other than that, his fundamental philosophy is people have to earn respect (himself included).
So If I had to peg your alignment right now, it is closer to True Neutral, tilting to law and tilting now more to Neutral...
:shrugs: I assume Spiral will let me know if she has a problem with my characterization.
Going to have to second Straehan on this one. Neither Ryu or Alkaid have any legitimate claim to authority outside the group, let alone within it.
The argument could be made that Ryu wasn't acting particularly evil in not executing the bandits and should be LN.
I'm actually more concerned with what will happen once we hit level 5 and he shows up as evil the first time someone casts detect evil. Hopefully we don't have to deal with any paladin NPCs in the future.
Hey, all, just wanted to drop a note here to let everyone know that I'm backing out of the game.
Between real-life demands on my time, my other php games, and the posting rate in this thread, I have struggled to keep up and post constructively… not to mention missing the last whole fight completely.
All-in-all it's been a bit frustrating, and I think it's just best if I step back. I apologize for joining up and then dropping. It' snot something I anticipated.
I hope you guys have fun killing stuff. :)
Biter had PM'd me about this. I'm sorry to see him go and I told him if things improve he's welcome back.
From My eyes I see,
** spoiler omitted **You followed your personal conscience when you CdG the bandit, and resented Alkaid for going to lecture you.
resentment toward legitimate authority, i.e. Ryu (a lawful Noble) got the bandits to surrender (meaning they are now unarmed civilians) and you CdG a unconscious bandit, and talked back to Ryu (a lawful Noble), and a Representive of the Church (Me).So If I had to peg your alignment right now, it is closer to True Neutral, tilting to law and tilting now more to Neutral...
Sorry, but my current situation makes it so that I leave this discussion either entirely to Alkaid or that I comment on it later (I want to get up to speed in my games but I shouldn't even be up yet, so I sneaked to a net access PC)
OK, now for something completely different and connected as well: I have the AP! Much of what I'd decided about the set-up fits with the module, so while I may have to adjust the timeline and a few family lines, things are good to go once you're done in Ravenmoor and I can read all 427(!) pages.
The relevant part comes with a new mechanic introduced in one of the appendices: sin and virtue points. They work like this:
Each time a PC acts in a particularly sinful or virtuous way, that character gains a point in that sin or virtue. If the PC already has points in that sin’s corresponding virtue, instead it cancels out one of the virtue points (and vice versa). At any one time, only one side, sin or virtue, should have points.
A PC is considered sinful whenever she has 5 or more points in a particular sin. Likewise, a PC is considered virtuous whenever she has 5 or more points in a particular virtue.
Sins and Virtues (and ways of gaining points)
Envy: Gaining something important from a rival or harming that rival's well-being (PC must have a grudge against that rival).
vs
Charity: Helping another without expectations.
Gluttony: Indulging in an addiction or appetite at some risk to self or a loved one.
vs
Temperance: Resisting the temptation to indulge in an excess.
Greed: Gaining something at the expense of another, at some potential risk.
vs
Generosity: Donations without prompting.
Lust: Satisfying a lust or compulsion in a way that victimizes another.
vs
Love: Refusing to let others give in to despair.
Pride: Exerting wants (not needs) over others at potential risk to self.
vs
Humility: Turning down an earned reward for the greater good.
Sloth: Avoiding a difficult task but achieving the goal nonetheless.
vs
Zeal: Doing the right thing at risk of personal loss or setback.
Wrath: Unleashing anger in a situation where doing so is dangerous and unwarranted or inappropriate.
vs
Kindess: Letting go of justified anger.
Some of you have already earned points in a few categories. There are in-game effects.
Playing to deliberately counter points will earn points, your PC has to mean it in character. ;P
Examples:
Alkaid's drinking bout at the start = gluttony
Alkaid's stablizing the wounded bandits = charity
Ryu's chasing down claiming the island to the exclusion of the group = greed
Straehan's CdG on the bandit = wrath
Note: none of these things were out of character and I will not list any further gains or losses. Play as you normally would and I'll handle the effects.
That makes a nice counter-point to the alignment system. I like it.
read about the Sins and Virtues in another thread,
you got two of alkaid's points
she was close to Kindness act.
and did a Temperance act in refusing the wine everyone got and gave it to Thunderclap.
Soooooo, does being sinful mean Npc time?
short version
sinful does not mean NPC time.
but if Straehan for example did a few more murdering of harmless/unconscious NPCs and becomes evil with sinful actions, then I would suppose so.
long version
the sins and virtues are used later in the AP, though I don't know what for.
5 marks in either a virtue or sin are required for something (don't know what),
and marks can be negated by doing the opposite,
example My Gluttony act and Temperance act cancel each other out.