Ok, I for one don't believe killing unconscious enemies is evil (in game, obviously). I don't think it's even that wrathful, more practical than anything else. I fully intend on making sure every goblin, ogre and whatnot we run into in the wilds takes a permanent dirt nap. Surrender gets them a clean death. Frontier justice and all that.
Shockingly, Kaddoc is not a signatory to the Geneva Conventions.
I'm not above taking persons of value prisoner, but fail to see how passing the responsibility of executing bandits onto the authorities makes you a better person. A more lawful person, sure, but hardly some pillar of virtue.
Anywho, might as well put me up to max wrath. My whole character kind of revolves around being unreasonably angry ;)
Straehan's CdG on the bandit = wrath
Sweet! I like wrath. To quote my hero from Firefly...
The Operative: Do you know what your sin is Mal?
Mal Reynolds: Ah Hell... I'm a fan of all seven. But right now, I'm gonna have ta go with wrath.
Now, Kaddoc, I'm gonna have to dispute you being unreasonably angry. I'd say you've been quite reasonable. :)
Question, Spiral, since we are blind to our totals of various sin/virtues. Is there some mechanic to figure out where we are at or redress the balance? Having a local cleric cast Atonement or the like?
@Straehan: At this point there doesn't seem to be a way other than countering with the opposite sin/virtue, still, I think I'd allow an Atonementor something similar to work.
@Alkaid: I agree, the Temperance countered the Gluttony. I didn't list every point, I was showing examples. I probably should have used that one to show how to counter a sin/virtue, though.
Also, given the situation when you are going to be 'judged' on this, high levels might be good. Might. There are both penalties and benefits.
The notes there are not the only ways to gain points, either.
I just want to make sure I can't become an Nic through this system. I'll just play my character as I would otherwise and take what lumpings I get.
Also can you be both sinful and virtuous?
@Sparrow: not for the same paring. You could be both Gluttonus and Charitible, but not Gluttonus and Temperate.
This is not a situation where you can be NPC'd. It's more one where, in at least one major dungeon, you will be affected by the total of your sins. Or, at least, your most -active- one.
Ok, I for one don't believe killing unconscious enemies is evil (in game, obviously). I don't think it's even that wrathful, more practical than anything else. I fully intend on making sure every goblin, ogre and whatnot we run into in the wilds takes a permanent dirt nap. Surrender gets them a clean death. Frontier justice and all that.
Shockingly, Kaddoc is not a signatory to the Geneva Conventions.
I'm not above taking persons of value prisoner, but fail to see how passing the responsibility of executing bandits onto the authorities makes you a better person. A more lawful person, sure, but hardly some pillar of virtue.
Anywho, might as well put me up to max wrath. My whole character kind of revolves around being unreasonably angry ;)
What the players believe as good or evil is slightly mute,
as the GM can track if your moving away from your stated alignment and thus change it.Straehan needs to keep his lawful alignment for monk,
so any really chaotic actions the DM could force an alignment
shift and cause problems for his character.
@Straehan: At this point there doesn't seem to be a way other than countering with the opposite sin/virtue, still, I think I'd allow an Atonementor something similar to work.
I get that. What I meant was it seems like we won't know what sins we're receiving penalties for since we won't know our point totals. It is hard to counter Greed with charitable acts if you don't know that you were being greedy in the first place. My assumption here is that the penalties may not obviously tie to our sins, so we won't immediately know what we have to do to counter them. Or am I misinterpreting how things work? I figured that perhaps an atonement spell would point a character in the right direction.
The Gods say... give up your Lustful ways.
Personally, I'm with Kaddoc and Sparrow, I'll play my character true to his nature and let the chips fall where they may. I'm just curious for the more redemptive in the crowd how they are supposed to ferret out where they've been bad, if it isn't readily apparent.
Your not suppose to know what sins/virtue you're racking up, as this is a secret the GM tracks.
so if you want a good guess, track it yourself.
The bonuses/penaltities for sin/virtue are minor (like +/- 1) I think.
Straehan needs to keep his lawful alignment for monk,
so any really chaotic actions the DM could force an alignment
shift and cause problems for his character.
Lawful is as flexible as the region you are in. By your definition no monk or paladin could take part in the Counsel of Thieves AP, since most of that is rebelling against the Lawful rule of the land. Also, by that strict definition, Kaddoc cannot obey the law, because he needs to stay chaotic if he wants to be a barbarian. I can play like if you'ld like, but I guarantee that this campaign will grind to a halt pretty quickly.
Monks and paladins just need to stay true to the tenants of their order, whatever they happen to be.
Alignment is a pretty stupid mechanic to begin with and having classes restricted by it is worse still. By the game mechanics (for example, clerics must be within one alignment step of their patron), CG deities can't have Paladins, which is idiotic.
...
CG deities can't have Paladins, which is idiotic.
I have to agree with the RAW rules, and say a CG paladin is idiotic, as is a CE paladin, a Paladin in my view is either LG, or LE.
Alignment is a pretty stupid mechanic to begin with and having classes restricted by it is worse still. By the game mechanics (for example, clerics must be within one alignment step of their patron), CG deities can't have Paladins, which is idiotic.
Back in the day, somewhere on the border of 1E and 2E IIRC correctly, the Dragon posted a brilliant article filling in the Paladinic blanks - creating a unique Paladin type and skill-sets for each of the nine alignments (well 7 since the Pally and Anti-Pally were already done). It was tremendous fun to play. Ah, LE Illrigger... I miss you so. :)
Hey, all, just wanted to drop a note here to let everyone know that I'm backing out of the game.
:raises a glass to a vanished comrade: Sorry to see you go, pal.
@Straehan: I've seen the Paladin Variants: Freedom, Slaughter, And Tyranny in the d20 srd. What were the others like?
If you could PM me with any info it would take the disussion out of this game-related thread.
As for other alignment and sin/virtue issues; I do not play that events make the character NPC, except possibly lycantropic infection, which isn't (I think) a risk here.
Yes alignment can change and it can be a great story RPing a redemption or a fall from grace.
And there will be opportunities within this AP for such events.
Now, let's get back to playing.
Those paladins are found in the 3.5 book, Unearthed Arcana
If you could PM me with any info it would take the discussion out of this game-related thread.
The gnome fires off a snappy salute, "Will do, chief. I'll send along what I can."
Those paladins are found in the 3.5 book, Unearthed Arcana
Oh, believe me, Alkaid, I already have that link. ;D
Now you have more of the original content. PM sent. ;)
asking for reply on pre-last PM, and about the bandit camp situation
edit: and 20 posts in discussion thread in this game alone, barely able to keep up, and I decided I don't want to go into arguing about alignments, but I wish to point out that while at start Ryu did try to get the island with exclusion of the party, he didn't do it for himself he tried to get it for the organization he owes much to
Ravenmoor: [I'll get the map up by tonight.]
A. The LampblackTrail
This seldom-trodden trail leads down along the Lampblack River, eventually connecting to the Lost Coast Road where the Lampblack veers away from the edges of Churlwood.
B. Ravenmoor Ferry
Two ramshackle shacks flank the Lampblack here, sheds to house a flat-bottom ferry. Tightly drawn ropes cross the river, part of a cranked pulley system that draws the barge across the black water. The ferry can transport a total of 7 passengers, who are charged 1 sp each. Horses or large animals take the space of two passengers and cost 1 gp apiece to transport across. The ferry is run by Skender Cardzi, a crooked-backed, thin-haired man with an abrasive personality. He is quick to warn approaching PCs—especially any who consider bypassing his service—of “the wolf in the water,” which “eats children’s guts” (a reference to the Lampblack bunyip that’s lived in the river and fens nearby for many years). He points to an unusual-looking skull nailed to the nearby shack, and gruffly notes the creature usually hunts these shores for a couple weeks before moving on. The displayed skull is actually the deformed skull of a stillborn ox, but his warning is quite real.
C. Weaver
This shop is filled with simple clothing, cloth, thread, and yarn; a large loom and spinning wheel take up most of the shop's back area, along with a large cage containing Mushfen silkworms. The town weaver, Alizna, appears as a stooped crone with a quick smile. The majority of the clothes worn by Ravenmoor’s citizens were created by this old woman, as were the robes worn by the cultists during rituals. There’s very little of actual value here, although if the PCs want to purchase some rustic clothes, Alizna titters and gladly takes their coin.
D. Physic
The front of this small building has a wide, overhanging roof that provides shade for a few benches and chairs out front. This small building is the workplace of Alexi Eestok, the town’s aging barber-surgeon. He performs many vital remedies to harsh village life, including haircutting and shaving, but also bloodletting, boil lancing, tooth extraction, and setting broken bones. The benches lined up along the building’s facade attract a congregation of long-toothed elders, who spend their waning days sitting under the covered porch, wagering on simple games of chance.
E. Trading Post and Smithy
While this building bears a sign that proclaims it to be the town trading post, the lack of business and activity certainly sets expectations of a poorly stocked store at best. This ill-stocked trading post seems to contain mostly agricultural equipment: plows, scythes, flour sacks, flails, and the like. Most of the available space is otherwise taken up with tables and the building’s long counter, and the hearth always hosts a large cauldron in which a thick, creamy stew of diced eel and river clams simmers. A large barn just to the south stores hay stocks and the town’s seed stores, while smoked stirges and giant ticks cure in the lofty rafters. The building also serves as the village’s smithy, where the trading post’s muscular, bald owner Saul Lupescu, sometimes toils to repair tools, while his wife Anya tends the post itself. The trading post offers no armor or weapons (apart from simple weapons and flails) for sale—Saul grudgingly agrees to sell other objects to the PCs only if they can impress him with a DC 15 Diplomacy check, in which case the PCs can purchase nonmagical gear up to the town’s limit of 250 gp. Saul’s beautiful daughter, Shel Lupescu, is sitting out front as she works on repairing a fine but threadbare dress. On the verge of becoming an adult, Shel is particularly excited today since she’s been chosen as one of the three local girls competing to be named this year’s Founders’ Feast Queen—an honor awarded yearly by the town mayor to the most beautiful of Ravenmoor’s daughters. Saul is quite protective of his daughter, and if he gets the idea that the PCs are talking to her too much, he’ll usher her into the back room where her bedroom is to wait for the festival there.
F. Ruined Church
The ceiling of this abandoned church has mostly caved in, and while the church’s two-story steeple still stands, the bell that once hung within appears to be missing. Originally the heart of Ravenmoor, this old church of Desna has been abandoned for many years. The iron bell that once hung in the tower has long since been scavenged for its iron, which was used for things like tools and horseshoes. An investigation of the ruined interior finds a single crude idol of Desna, more akin to a gourd-faced and straw-stuffed scarecrow than a proper statue, sagging against the pulpit wall. Interviews with locals about the church’s condition bring mostly shrugs—the people of Ravenmoor explain that they don’t need a building as proof of their faith, saying, “The stones be a sight better place fer worship than a building, sinct’ ye can see the stars.” None of the locals are particularly eager to engage in religious debates; they’re comfortable in their laid-back faith, and, other than suggesting that scandalized priests might wish to speak to the mayor about their concerns, they seem almost amused by this “city-folk uproar” over their local traditions.
G. The Stones
This large ring of black river stones and tall, stacked rock columns encompasses an open-air amphitheater built against a steeply sloped sandstone outcropping. Stone benches sit nearby, while a misshapen wicker and corn-husk figure with mossy canvas wings looms over an altar stone at the far side. Many of these stone megaliths can be found in the Ravenmoor hinterlands—so-called “troll rocks” of popular local legend (supposedly fragments from immense rock trolls that succumbed to the petrifying light of the sun). Slanted stone pews interrupt overgrown weeds and flank a central aisle terminating at a small raised dais. A stone altar sits upon this stage, and a life-sized wicker and corn-husk representation of Desna looms above, depicted in a kneeling pose, her mossy canvas wings spread wide and crawling with spiders.
H. Festival Grounds
A large field here has been fenced off, creating an area where tents, benches, and tables have been set out for today’s festival and celebration. The monthly Founders’ Feast and accompanying festival are held in a large fallow pasture nestled in the northern fork of the village road.
I. Ravenmoor Mill
Built of darkly stained river rock and soggy timber, this old structure leans precariously toward the Lampblack, its wooden wheel rotating in the slow-moving waters. This mill quietly throbs a repetitive cadence from within, and the wheel mechanism powers a pulper, a wire-drawer, a sack lift, and the grindstone vital to processing Ravenmoor’s crops. The miller, Doriv Carmiscu, is also in charge of supplying villagers with their weekly supply of grain and other milled goods. Nothing here is for sale to outsiders.
J. Kriegler Manor
This clapboard, saltbox-style house is the largest home in town. Built on a barren hill, the building has a two-story facade that slopes down to a single-story rear with the large, protruding chimney of a centrally placed hearth. The house seems inviting, and much better maintained than Ravenmoor’s other buildings.
K. The Chenowitz Place
A sagging farmhouse, its windows boarded over with timbers, sits in a clearing nestled within an overgrown field at the edge of town here. An old barn with a sagging roof looms behind the house, a reminder of more productive times. The Chenowitzes were one of the founding families of Ravenmoor, but they all perished in the bad times before Iola returned with the village’s salvation. Since then, these buildings have been left to rot and the fields to lie fallow. In fact, this old abandoned farm is avoided by the locals—adults cite its sagging roofline as evidence that the buildings could collapse at any moment, while children believe the place is haunted by the Night Creepers.
Back home now from the con, so should be able to resume a normal posting rate again. Just playing catch up.
So what's the game plan? Are we going to be open about looking for this missing tax collector, or do you guys want to try poking about on the sly for a bit first?
Kaddoc sucks at both diplomacy and sense motive, so it's all the same to me.
Me and Ryu are the top diplomats, so we can go the diplomatic route.
I plan on just lurking about and listening for gossip. My knowledge: local is not too shabby.
Sparrow would be open to either route. Personally, I think a direct confrontation with the mayor should be done first. Then leave one person outside the mayor's to watch for comings and goings (if we don't get any good information), while the rest ask about town.
Just my opinion. I'd be glad to watch the mayor's too.
Since we have some solid Diplomats, we might as well be honest then, and be ready for trouble in case we're dealing with a village of vampiric weretigers or something.
Probably, best not to bring up the back taxes just yet. People tend to be touchy about money.
I'm a fan of Ghost Pirate Ninjas myself.
Two things:
1: I have three medical appointments tomorrow: PT for my sprained tendons, explaining to the dietician why I've lost so little weight, and then getting my regular physical. So, no posting until late, most likely, as the VA doesn't have WiFi for my Fire.
2: I now have Ultimate Equipment, so anything from there is valid. If you want to know about anything in particular, PM me.
Once I get back, fun with the locals...hehehehe...well, they think it's fun.
Good luck with the VA. Hope it goes faster for you than it does for me.
Cil, I survived the VA. And the worst wait was for the dietician. She's mad at me. Wants me to give up Pepsi.
On a more game-related note, has anyone heard from Ryu? None of his aliases have posted since the 19th, when he said he was recovering from food poisoning. I've PM'd him but no response as of yet. Guess he's going to flirt with the local beauty for now.
Hopefully he's okay. And what will Cil think of the flirting? ;p
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Ouch on the pepsi thing. As something of a caffeine addict myself, I would go nuts (well, angry mostly, with those around me being nuts from putting up with me). It is terrible stuff though. I switched from diet to regular dew trying to wean off the aspartame portion of it, gained 30 lbs in a month after having gradually been losing. You have all my support on getting off it though!
Not as bad as my cousin who had to give up soft drinks and spicy food which he loved, or risk more ulcers.
And I have heard from folks around here that use Coca-Cola for cleaning the rough jobs.
That and I also remember the tooth in the Cola for health class
(it was gone in 4 weeks)
You could slowly reduce your pepsi intake to make the transition easier
-------------------------------------------------------
I hope Ryu is OK.
The best way to go with the soda is quitting cold turkey. The headaches suck of a day or so, after that your good.
I try to give up soda every six months or so, but my wife keeps buying them for me. And yes, Coke is great for cleaning battery terminals.
I hope Ryu is okay as well, not that I would ever flirt with him. Cilyanka has way too many personal issues without worrying about romance.
@Azure: actually have reduced it. Just, apparently, not enough. :(
@Group: I need to ask this now, so I can adjust stuff if and where neccesary. How do you want to handle treasure distribution? In 40 years of playing I and the groups I've played with have always used equal shares, but due to an incident in my other game, I've discovered that a lot of folks seem to think 'take what you can use, even if it's the most expensive item in the module and split the rest' method.
So, since I will have to alter the treasure due to the number of players being higher than the 4 the module was designed for, I need to know if I have to run the balance ledger myself to keep everyone at a common WBL.
And yes, the question doesn't alter the need to run a WBL ledger, it just concerns who runs it, the players or the GM.
I am indifferent when it comes to treasure and wealth. I tend to focus on the character, not the toys.
If I feel a need to cover certain items, I tend to take the craft wonderous items feat. With Cilyanka, that will most likely mean pearls of power.
The majority of my own play experience is with my home group. The method we use is the 'take what you can use, split the rest' method. This can lead to some one-sided distributions though (one of our campaigns, my rogue has nearly twice as much magical gear as everyone else, going by GP, but is largely the least effective in the group).
That said, I'm farily open to loot distribution as well. iIt looks like you're pretty interested in being able to access what everyone has money wise for purposes of loot drops. If you'd like, I'd be willing to create a google doc for it. Another PBP I'm in a player has a good loot sheet they created, and I could do the same thing here. It'd be easy to make it editable by anyone as well. If no one minds, I can create it and see what people think. Opinions?
Here's a sample of what I'm talking about.
Looks great.
That looks pretty good. Thanks.
And no, the distribution doesn't have to be exact, just fair.
I'm pretty easy going, so I'm not particularly concerned with loot, as long as wealth distribution remains somewhat even between PCs. In general though, I'm more of a fan of seeing magic items being used versus being sold, even if the potential user has more than their fair share of the phat lewt.
As long as it makes the party better as a whole, I'm ok with it. Just a team player I guess.
Though if everyone suddenly has +5 flaming vorpal weapons of awesomeness and Kaddoc is still rocking a MWK guisarme, I may begin to grumble a touch.
Yep, I fall into the same camp of loot distribution as Sparrow and Kaddoc.
I skimmed the threads quick and I THINK I got almost everything down (there wasn't much, but the posts made it tough what with the spoilers).
I know I didn't get everyone's reward from Das, so if you could either fill it in or post it here and I'll get it.
If anyone sees anything missing, let me know or feel free to add it.
I think I'll go for a pair of masterwork cold iron cestus.
2*((2*(5))+300) = 2*(10+300) = 2*(310) = 620gp.
"I have a pair of masterwork cold iron cestus."
Sparrow, thanks for putting the form together. I updated the sheet but in case you are wondering about the change... Strae got a MW Kama and Ruby. The saddle is something he's having made.
Sparrow, thanks for putting the form together. I updated the sheet but in case you are wondering about the change... Strae got a MW Kama and Ruby. The saddle is something he's having made.
Np at all. And I tried to get the loot accurate, but there's actually a good amount of threads in there. Plus all the spoilers made it tough to narrow down. So I figured I'd just enlist everyone ;p
Can we try more than one contest?
@Sparrow: Yes, you can enter as many as you want.
Cool. Playing an archer type, it seems wrong not to do the Falling Stars, but I think Sparrow would want to do the Greased Pig.
So I'm thinking we split up abit. Probably have at least one sense motivey type in each group. Unfortunately I've only got a +2 there, so not sure that counts. Opinions?
So yea, Sparrow was a tad too unconcerned about the pig now that I re-read through the posts. What does it say about you when you read about a pig turning into some kind of monstrosity, and you don't really care how? Need more sleep, methinks, prior to posting.