I was speaking of the suggestion of rafting down the river, which would need a much larger raft.
Something much smaller and easier to assemble would be fine for just crossing the river.
I was speaking of the suggestion of rafting down the river, which would need a much larger raft.
Chillel, in case you didn't catch it, Mended did reccomend going down the river on a raft.
As your GM I would not recommend going down river on a raft you crafted in the woods. I would, however, strongly recommend heading across said river to search for the Elder forest, and then making your way to the monastery across land.
Is that clear enough?
Thanks Mended, we have our direction of travel.
On building a raft- apart from anything else, it will take time to build a raft that will hold 7 people. Like serious time.
I always knew that Dolok, as can be seen from my original post about the raft. The idea of building a raft had been floated [boom boom] and mended wall told us it wasn't a good idea. There was some further discussion of the time it would take et al in the abstract.
As your friendly GM I bring you this message.
@Illiam: When I narrated the wolf encounter, I had taken a bit of control there, and said that as soon as you woke up you readied your spells for the day. I'm not sure if you noticed that or not. This means that your silent image would count against your daily spell casting, leaving you, by my reckoning, only one more level 1 spell to cast for the day. I think, though, that that is what was necessary because you cast both grease and color spray in the encounter with Grung yesterday. Just wanted to make sure I was recalling things correctly and that you are on board with that sequence of events.
@ Please do me the huge favor of making sure that your alias/avatar and/or character sheets reflect the reality of the spells you have prepared for the day. Dolok, this doesn't affect you because you're a sorcerer. You just know the spells you know, and can cast any at any time as long as you have ready slots. :)
Like I said in the gameplay thread, I'm going to give it a bit of time (maybe a day?) before I seize control and move things forward. If anyone has thoughts actions they want to take care of before really breaking camp and heading north towards the river, please get those posted.
Due to some interface issues with my devices, Mended, I'm going to need to stick with keeping my alias profile updated, and just adjust my character sheet at level gains. I don't think it will lead to any issues, but yell at me if it ever does. :)
Mended Wall- I have done as you asked as I decided to change my level one spells to 2 uses of Web Bolt.
I also deleted the Evil Eye Hex from the header of my character as I lost it when I made a change to my character just after we started. It should have happened earlier.
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Including my school slot (into which I can only prepare grease, at the moment), and a bonus spell per day for having a high INT score, I have three first level spells per day. I actually had silent image prepared and unused for the previous day, but I also assumed that the combat was after I finished preparing spells, and I have already marked off my use of silent image for the new day. I also have my bonded object, which allows me to cast one spell from my spellbook spontaneously each day, so unless a cantrip that I haven't prepared becomes vital, that will probably be a fourth first-level spell.
Did you mean that you want the text above our posts (the stuff in the Race and Class boxes) to list the specific spells that we have prepared, or just that you want to make sure they have an accurate count?
Well, we'll need to consider something if it takes too long. I know that there are giant monsters in the water but if that is a threat, we'd hunt a large game to act as a distraction then and pull it away.
OOCly, it is a bad idea. ICly, everyone I know and have come to consider as friends is dying of a plague and I may have to kill them if they're walking dead. That does not make Baradim want to take it "slow and steady"
Including my school slot (into which I can only prepare grease, at the moment), and a bonus spell per day for having a high INT score, I have three first level spells per day. I actually had silent image prepared and unused for the previous day, but I also assumed that the combat was after I finished preparing spells, and I have already marked off my use of silent image for the new day. I also have my bonded object, which allows me to cast one spell from my spellbook spontaneously each day, so unless a cantrip that I haven't prepared becomes vital, that will probably be a fourth first-level spell.
Did you mean that you want the text above our posts (the stuff in the Race and Class boxes) to list the specific spells that we have prepared, or just that you want to make sure they have an accurate count?
Excellent, good to know. I just want the information somewhere within the alias. I don't need the names of the spells in the "quickbar," but I sure do like to see the number of spells that have been cast out of a total cast-able (edit: which you have prominently, thanks!). Somewhere in the alias description (meaning when I actually click on the alias an it opens the full profile) I do want the names of the spells prepared for each day, so we all know. Thanks for updating me on that. I had forgotten about the bonded object.
I seem to have dropped a bombshell IC.
I went and looked back to make sure of what I said. This is part of Mended Walls post of Nov 3, 2016, 04:55 am:-
"With that Lady Cirthana delivers a narrative of how the current troubles started just under a month previous. At first only a few people were sick, and nothing was thought of it, but soon the number of ill people began to become worrisome, and that is when she sent for aid. Now, by Lady Cirthana's estimation, more people are sick than are well, and likely there are many who are sick but are not showing symptoms. It was determined, after some investigation by Gavel Thuldrin Kreed's Rangers that a particularly pernicious fungus, Blackscour, had begun to grow deep in the bowels of the town's only well: Brookman's well, located just outside of town. After some coercion Lady Cirthana in conjunction with Laurel Usessa, a local herbalist and healer, they were able to convince Kreed to post a notice and a guard to prevent people from using the well. That has come with the problem of creating scarce drinking water. The River Foam, being choked with particulates from all the lumber that floats on it, must have its water filtered through a cloth and then boiled before drinking, and Lady Cirthana's own power to create water has proved incapable of keeping up with the town's need, even if she cast her spells from dawn to dark.
So now the problem is indeed dire, for the disease initially caused by the Blackscour seems to be being spread from person to person with little to halt it. Those that are ill require fresh water to keep them from worsening symptoms by dehydration, but Gavel Kreed seems either unable or unwilling to do anything about clearing the well, or providing men to work at filtering and boiling the river's water. All this has meant death, more than a dozen citizens so far, mostly the elderly, or those that were infirm already, but death will spread, of that Cirthana is certain."
I do recall those details were presented. Kairon was fixated on a quick solution in that timeframe, and the willful neglect of Kreed is coming into clearer focus for him.
Hence, "ka-boom".
:D
Wow. Going full-bore SJW, huh? lol.
And now I have a "back-burner" question:
Considering the propensity for members of Sarenrae's church to note folk remedies and be dedicated to medicine/healing practices, Mended, in what combination of the Craft, Knowledge, Profession, and/or Survival skills would Kairon need to invest to be best able to resupply his healer's kit(s) on his own?
All right people, since this is going to come up sooner rather than later, I wanted to let everyone know what you'll be dealing with for making a raft.
By RAW, making a raft from materials around you would be an untrained craft: carpentry check, for which I'm setting the DC at 15. A separate check will be made for each oar, with a DC of 10. There is a penalty for failure with craft, so you CANNOT take 20. All craft checks are intelligence checks, so you are going to want your high INT characters actually rolling the dice. Though, in my own imagining of the scenario, those high INT characters are going to be the foreman, telling the heavy lifters where to move things, and where/how to tie the knots. In the event of a failed roll, no progress is made, and you're essentially starting all over again and depending on how bad the roll, you might need to gather more raw materials.
Which brings us to gathering the raw materials for the boat. As Goruck has already deduced, gathering the raw materials from the forest is a Survival check. I was going to set the DC for finding adequate raw materials at 15, and Goruck has already rolled a 21, good on ya! If others want to aid, I'll provide a +1 bonus to the actual craft check to make an adequate water-borne vessel for each five by which you are above the 15. So right now you are already at a +1. Not sure if you want to gather the materials now and haul them with, gather them piecemeal as you travel, or wait and gather them at river's edge. That's up to you all.
Then, of course, we have to talk about propulsion of the crafted raft (say that five times fast). Rules dictate either a Diplomacy or Intimdate check to "drive" a raft via muscle. That makes sense if the rowers are unwilling, but everyone on this raft (or these rafts, more on that in a minute) wants to help get across. So instead what I'm going to do is have a static DC 13 STR check for each rower. If all four rowers make the DC 13 STR check, the raft moves 30' that round. If only 3 out of the four make it, it will move 25', if only two make it, then it only moves 15'. If only one rower makes the check the boat makes no progress. If not one of the four rowers makes the DC then the boat will actually give way to the current and move 30' down stream. Sound like fun?!
Now let's get the real nitty-gritty. A raft can only hold four medium creatures. Which means you are either making all of those checks twice (well a lot more than twice for the propulsion), OR, you can attempt to make one large raft that will hold all seven of you. If that is the case, I would set the DC for that large raft at 20. I would not up the DC of the Survival check to gather materials though.
So... let the discussions begin. How best to tackle the puzzle of crossing the Taggoret river. :)
And now I have a "back-burner" question:
Considering the propensity for members of Sarenrae's church to note folk remedies and be dedicated to medicine/healing practices, Mended, in what combination of the Craft, Knowledge, Profession, and/or Survival skills would Kairon need to invest to be best able to resupply his healer's kit(s) on his own?
In my head it would be Craft: Alchemy, or Profession: Herbalist, but a case could be made for a Survival check. I'd probably want a higher DC for Survival though. To me, things like gauze are easy to makeshift out of cloth and whatnot, but salves, ointments, tinctures, etc, they would all be more an alchemist's or herbalist's business.
Roger that.
I think we know which one Kairon will be going with . . . . lol.
Training it up through roleplay, at this point, should involve discussions with Baradim, Goruck, and Lunarinus? And, obviously, Laurel and Cirthana when back in town?
I forgot that L. Scipio had Survival trained, but yes, those would all be good "contacts" for in game discussions to show interest in the skill for future point spending. Thanks for thinking of that ahead of time, btw, not everybody does, and then at level up when they drop skill points in things like Linguistics without, ever, having said anything about their character being interested in languages, I always quirk a brow.
Just want to make sure that everyone is okay with this traveling order:
Razorcrows, Grung, Kanga, Baradim, Goruck, Chillel, Illiam, Dolok, Kairon, L. Scipio.
Sound right?
I'm gonna grab things here and move them along in just a bit.
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How far is it across the river? Rocks? How close are the trees to the shore? How tall? Illiam is going to be looking for non-traditional ideas to help them get across.
I think it's a good idea for Illiam and/or Chillel to direct the construction. They won't be moving large materials around, but they can tie knots and check over the knots tied by others.
We should probably have one foreman (I would nominate Illiam, since he, even more so than Chillel, doesn't have the strength for any manual labor) who makes the check, and then everyone else can roll to aid another.
As for raft design, I think we need to try to come up with something where not everyone needs to do the rowing. Rather than just making the raft bigger, I'm thinking along the lines of two rafts attached by some large branches, catamaran style. Mechanically, I'm thinking this will be the same as crafting two normal rafts (DC 15 twice) rather than making one big raft (which would probably be a higher DC). This catamaran raft would only have places for 4 rowers, like a normal raft (the beams would take up the other spots), but it would have room for others to ride. It would be more stable than a single raft, but would probably move slower. It should, however, move more reliably than if any of our arcane casters are trying to row.
Another idea would be to try to get everyone on one regular raft. If our three strongest characters each "carry" one of the arcane casters (I'm fairly certain they could do it without going over medium encumbrance, which most of them have anyway due to armor) we should only count as only 4 people. Encumbrance penalties do not stack, so if they're wearing medium armor, carrying us won't even slow them down any more than their armor already does. Dolok is our heaviest arcane caster, and he weighs 207lb including gear. Goruck can carry 266lb and he doesn't have gear weights listed, but his armor is 30lb and the rest of it looks like it weighs less combined than that, so carrying Dolok shouldn't put him over medium encumbrance. If the gear adds up to a little too much, they can just have Kairon carry their backpacks. This is, of course, and unorthodox plan that should work by RAW, but a GM veto wouldn't be terribly surprising.
Edit: this assumes that Grung is only coming as far as the river. Also, I don't have a weight listed for Kanga.
I agree with the traveling order.
That order sounds fine to me, except that like Athena, I wouldn't include the razorcrows in it. They should be flying around, perching in trees to wait for us to catch up when necessary, scouting ahead and keeping a perimeter to warn us of any possible attacks.
Frick, I always forget Athena, but you are right, as far as order goes, since they share initiative with their "owners" and are above the forest floor, and thereby not affecting single-file movement, they don't need to be represented in the traveling order.
As to your raft suggestions, I love the idea of the catamaran double raft, and agree it would just be two separate DC 15 checks, but there would have to be a separate check for the "lashing together" bit, I'll have to think on that. There's no way I'm allowing raft type water travel with all seven of you on one 10' by 10' makeshift vehicle. Or, more to the point: go ahead and try that and see how it ends, but don't be surprised if swim checks, and constitution checks to avoid exhaustion or drowning are in the near future.
BTW I said in a previous post the river is just shy of 1/2 mile across at the narrowest points, so roughly 2500 feet from shore to shore.
As to the shore, the trees are about 50' - 60' feet from the edge. The shore itself is mostly reeds and soft muddy ground, perfect for losing a boot in the launch. :) There are occasional rocks, some seen, some unseen, but no part of the Taggoret is shallow enough to hopscotch across on rocks, because, again, we're talking about just shy of a half mile of distance. It's a true river, not a creek.
I rearranged the tokens roughly how I think they should be arranged. Feel free to change it if anyone disagrees. With this many characters moving single-file, we might need a bigger map.
Well... not to give too much away, but for what's happening currently, we don't really need a grid map... O.o ;)
@Mended --
"Ranger blood", eh? Ha! Hmmmmm . . . . I'm gonna go through the exercise, just to see what might be borne out . . . . :D
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I wasn't thinking of trying to walk/jump from rock to rock. More of navigating the raft from one rock to the next. Maybe using then to help keep us from losing ground if a check fails, or to take a break, or to stop short of the other shore if it's full of wolves. Also, of course, as a potential hazard.
I wasn't thinking of trying to walk/jump from rock to rock. More of navigating the raft from one rock to the next. Maybe using then to help keep us from losing ground if a check fails, or to take a break, or to stop short of the other shore if it's full of wolves. Also, of course, as a potential hazard.
Ah! Gotcha, all very good ideas. :) You are a smart, smart problem solver Illiam. :)
Also, right, hazards, yes...
@Mended --
"Ranger blood", eh? Ha! Hmmmmm . . . . I'm gonna go through the exercise, just to see what might be borne out . . . . :D
Gonna try and "rear a wild animal," are you? That'll be difficult without Handle Animal trained... :D :P
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Oh, (maybe I shouldn't bring this up, but...) if Grung is taking us to a place where the river moves more slowly, since the water must move through all parts of the river at the same rate (on average), that means that for the volume rate to remain constant, the cross-sectional area must be greater. that means that the river must be wider and/or deeper there.
Now, deeper might actually be good for us. It means fewer static navigational hazards, though I REALLY shouldn't mention that it's also where any large non-shallows creatures are likely to be found. A wider river means that it will take longer to cross, giving more time for something to go wrong.
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Gonna try and "rear a wild animal," are you? That'll be difficult without Handle Animal trained... :D :P@Mended --
"Ranger blood", eh? Ha! Hmmmmm . . . . I'm gonna go through the exercise, just to see what might be borne out . . . . :D
Technically, those rules are for raising an animal from infancy. I think the animal training section would be more appropriate (which, in this case at least, means that the checks are even harder).
Oh, (maybe I shouldn't bring this up, but...) if Grung is taking us to a place where the river moves more slowly, since the water must move through all parts of the river at the same rate (on average), that means that for the volume rate to remain constant, the cross-sectional area must be greater. that means that the river must be wider and/or deeper there.
Now, deeper might actually be good for us. It means fewer static navigational hazards, though I REALLY shouldn't mention that it's also where any large non-shallows creatures are likely to be found. A wider river means that it will take longer to cross, giving more time for something to go wrong.
Pffffff physics.
Nah, more of a "build analysis", at this point. Little guy keeps following me, though, well . . . .
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... Thanks for thinking of that ahead of time, btw, not everybody does, and then at level up when they drop skill points in things like Linguistics without, ever, having said anything about their character being interested in languages, I always quirk a brow. ...
Kinda mentioned it before, but I should note that Illiam wants to learn Sylvan. There are plenty of people around that he can be learning it from. Also, he's a quick study, and while he doesn't have most of the knowledge skills (and can't even make an untrained check), he's always taking in information, and will study subjects that he's seen a need for when he gets a chance (definitely taking Kn: nature and maybe Kn: religion at next level, maybe others).
... Thanks for thinking of that ahead of time, btw, not everybody does, and then at level up when they drop skill points in things like Linguistics without, ever, having said anything about their character being interested in languages, I always quirk a brow. ...Kinda mentioned it before, but I should note that Illiam wants to learn Sylvan. There are plenty of people around that he can be learning it from. Also, he's a quick study, and while he doesn't have most of the knowledge skills (and can't even make an untrained check), he's always taking in information, and will study subjects that he's seen a need for when he gets a chance (definitely taking Kn: nature and maybe Kn: religion at next level, maybe others).
Thanks for the heads up, it would help if some in-game posts reflected that penchant.
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I'll keep that in mind. Might not take linguistics at level 1. He'll eventually get more languages from intelligence increases anyway. Then again, linguistics is also used for forgeries, which is definitely in Illiam's wheelhouse, so I'll want to put at least one point into it eventually.
Unfortunately, it's hard to study things in the woods. He'll find some books ore something when he gets back to town. Also, learning a language from other characters in-character would be really tedious, so I'll have to figure out a good balance.
We are going to be spending a lot of time just walking and likely talking.
Chillel speaks Sylvan and will have no objection to assisting Illaim to learn as they travel. It is not as if she has anything better to do. Halflings are really good at small talk.
We are going to be spending a lot of time just walking and likely talking.
Chillel speaks Sylvan and will have no objection to assisting Illaim to learn as they travel. It is not as if she has anything better to do. Halflings are really good at small talk.
*snorts laughter*
That, coupled with your "jacks off" bit in Gameplay have garnered you a nice . . .
+1.
:D
In regards to Goruck's gear weight, he's packing just under 60 lbs of goodies (I beg the crayolas for forgiveness for daring math and encouraging Illiam's shenanigans).
Though now I imagine Goruck rushing into battle with Dolok on his back, complaining how the motion is throwing off his spells.
It is not as if she has anything better to do. Halflings are really good at small talk.*snorts laughter*
That, coupled with your "jacks off" bit in Gameplay have garnered you a nice . . .
+1.
:D
I was wondering if anyone had noticed that.
I couldn't resist. Chillel would be most embarrassed if she realised the alternate meaning of what she has said.
Ummmmm...
Scipio's post made me go back and look at the rules, and, as far as my reading of the rules is concerned it looks like heavy undergrowth provides a 30% miss (concealment) chance against both ranged, AND melee attacks.
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has concealment if his space is entirely within an effect that grants concealment. When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you, use the rules for determining concealment from ranged attacks.
This means that attacks using reach weapons, certainly, have a 30% miss chance, and as far as my reading of those rules goes, it looks like even adjacent melee attacks still have it. I think the idea there being you are using the shrubs, bushes, saplings, etc. to your best advantage.
This also reminded me that at any time, even in the middle of a battle, a creature with concealment can make a stealth check. You could be adjacent to an enemy and still make a Stealth check to hide and sneak away. Which seems absolutely ridiculous, but is, as far as I can tell, the RAW for heavy undergrowth in a forest.
Please, if people interpret those rules differently, point out my errors. I make them all the time, so I will not be upset if you tell me I'm wrong. :)
Separately, I'd like to wait for Baradim to chime in before I move things along here.
Ummmmm...
Scipio's post made me go back and look at the rules, and, as far as my reading of the rules is concerned it looks like heavy undergrowth provides a 30% miss (concealment) chance against both ranged, AND melee attacks.
When making a melee attack against an adjacent target, your target has concealment if his space is entirely within an effect that grants concealment. When making a melee attack against a target that isn't adjacent to you, use the rules for determining concealment from ranged attacks.This means that attacks using reach weapons, certainly, have a 30% miss chance, and as far as my reading of those rules goes, it looks like even adjacent melee attacks still have it. I think the idea there being you are using the shrubs, bushes, saplings, etc. to your best advantage.
This also reminded me that at any time, even in the middle of a battle, a creature with concealment can make a stealth check. You could be adjacent to an enemy and still make a Stealth check to hide and sneak away. Which seems absolutely ridiculous, but is, as far as I can tell, the RAW for heavy undergrowth in a forest.
Please, if people interpret those rules differently, point out my errors. I make them all the time, so I will not be upset if you tell me I'm wrong. :)
Seems we'll just be forced to go at this Sith-style: rather than draw them to open ground, just burn the undergrowth down around them! Thanks, Darth Bane!! >:D
In regards to Goruck's gear weight, he's packing just under 60 lbs of goodies (I beg the crayolas for forgiveness for daring math and encouraging Illiam's shenanigans).
Though now I imagine Goruck rushing into battle with Dolok on his back, complaining how the motion is throwing off his spells.
Dolok's aim might be thrown off with your plate-mailed steps bumping his elbow all the time . . . . Though Illiam seems to be slightly more save-or-suck oriented with his spells; AoEs would be less likely to go amiss . . . .
And I'm certain that even the Great Crayola has an appreciation for armored weapons platforms . . . . :D
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And *on* that note: We'll probably see more of Crayola's servants in the future -- I just got a message from his herald a little while ago . . . .
Seems we'll just be forced to go at this Sith-style: rather than draw them to open ground, just burn the undergrowth down around them! Thanks, Darth Bane!! >:D
Yes, burn down the forest, that won't upset both the Lumber Consortium and the natural forest denizens, at all!
>:D
It's not our fault all their trees and shrubs got in the way!! We were just defending ourselves in the most effective manner possible!! Why should we lay down and die if no one else is there to help??
lol
Dolok's aim might be thrown off with your plate-mailed steps bumping his elbow all the time . . . . Though Illiam seems to be slightly more save-or-suck oriented with his spells; AoEs would be less likely to go amiss . . . .
Well, I can use a few magic missiles & not miss!!! Weapons platform here we come! :D
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Check the sniping rules. Exceptio probat regulam. You cannot hide and attack in the same round, with the exception of sniping: you need to be at least 10 feet away from the target, after which you can attempt to hide again as a move action (without actually moving) at a -20 penalty. "Attack" here, I believe, means using a weapon (including unarmed strike), spell, SLA, etc. that requires an attack roll. It would not include AoEs (and probably wouldn't include magic missile), but it would include things like rays. Using verbal components probably also makes stealth more difficult, at least if you don't move. Unless you "attack", you can move right after casting to help avoid detection, though this movement is restricted to half your speed, which at 1/4 speed won't get anyone to a new square on the battle grid. I would still allow re-stealthing in this fashion, but you don't actually get anywhere, so the person can't see you, and can't target you with sight, but still can attack into your square and have a chance of hitting you. For this purpose, the character should have total concealment (50% miss chance instead of 30%)
Though I wouldn't consider it RAW, you could also rule that AoEs require breaking stealth by borrowing from the Invisibility spell description: "For purposes of this spell, an attack includes any spell targeting a foe or whose area or effect includes a foe." though, obviously, the use of the phrase "for the purposes of this spell" means that it's not intended to be interpreted that way for other things.
Yes, burn down the forest, that won't upset both the Lumber Consortium and the natural forest denizens, at all!>:D
Stuff that lot. We are all in the forest ourselves.
And Dolok, what is that about me and puns?
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And yes, by my reading, concealment should apply to melee just like it does to ranged attacks, though only if the target is entirely within an area of concealment (whereas ranged attacks only require some intervening square to provide concealment).
If you want to nerf the concealment rules for melee in the forest, it would be entirely reasonable to say that the undergrowth areas, though mostly concealing, contain "veins" of non-concealing area (the space between one plant and another) that run through each square, so no character would be considered "entirely within an effect that grants concealment" due to being in the undergrowth. Fogs and darkness still provide normal concealment in melee, at least for creatures that don't have an ability to see through it (such as darkvision or fogcutting lenses).