What do you like about each of the 4 full divine casters?


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion


So, I'm planning to get more into full casters in Pathfinder. I'v primarily played 6th level casters over my years with some full martials, And only a couple of full casters that never made it past level 6...

So now I'm planning to dive into it! And my plan is to start with the Divine full casters as they feel better for me as they all have some combat ability to fall back on if they run out of spells. So I come here to ask, What do you like about each of the 4 full divine casters? the Cleric, Druid, Oracle and Shaman.

I think they all seem interesting but, What are the party roles of each of them, And what do you enjoy about each of them? I know Clerics and Oracles are good healers and buffers, But what else? And Druids seem like they can be good combatants thanks to Wild shape, While also having some crowd control spells. Shamans.... I really dont know anything about...


Clerics and Oracles are good healers and buffers. They can be reasonably effective combatants if they are built for it, but that will impact their support role. I consider clerics to be the easiest to learn and play of the four full divine casters, because channeling and domains are fairly straightforward compared to the other three classes' special features.

Oracles are more complicated due to their revelations and curses, but I enjoyed the one I played, who reached 12th level or just beyond. (Dedicated healer, practically a pacifist, but I chose the Lore mystery to make her useful for more than just healing and being the party face.) Choosing a curse that will not consistently detract from your fun may pose a bit of a challenge. (My oracle had the tongues curse, so the PCs who cared most about any useful info she might spout during combat quickly learned the language(s) she was allowed to speak under stress. It worked out well enough, and enhanced her growing reputation as a holy woman.)

Druids can be good combatants with wild shape, if you have the physical ability scores to back it up. (If you're used to D&D 3E or 5E, where you pretty much just use the creature's stat block as-is, you'll be in for a rude shock if you dumped Str. As did one of my players in a campaign that we converted from 3.5 to PF1 halfway through.) They also have a number of useful battlefield-control and damaging spells. They can contribute some healing if the party is lacking a dedicated healer, but are more fun if they don't have to swap out more interesting spells to fill that role.

I've played one shaman, up to 12th level, and I'm still not sure how effectively I was able to play him. The spirit rules make the class complicated, especially once you get access to wandering spirit and wandering hex. (I made a cheat sheet of all of his options for those, and still defaulted to the same load-out over 90% of the time.) I liked the character concept fine (spooky half-orc fortune-teller, heavens mystery), but it's my least favorite class of the four full divine casters.


Clerics are a solid choice due to their huge amount of available spells, and their ability to swap any of them out for cure* spells is great. They have a less defined theme than any of the other classes, but that lack of an inherent theme makes it easier to adapt them to a concept that you have in mind. They're more of a blank slate that you can do what you want with; the huge amount of archetypes and other character options makes it easy to use a cleric to fit many different character concepts. In fact, if I know I'm going to play a divine caster, I'll usually assume I'm playing a cleric while I figure out the concept I want to create, and then only consider switching to another divine class if it feels like any of those are a better fit.

* This assumes that you're playing a positive energy cleric. I've never seen much point in playing a negative energy cleric, since there's already plenty of spells for a cleric to do damage. If that fits with the concept you want to play, however, more power to you. I've never played one, but I understand that a cleric is one of the better necromancer-themed concepts to play.

Druids are great! I love them! But as Tim implied above, you need to choose to focus on melee wildshape or as a caster to be effective. Both can be fun. If you go caster route, wildshape is still a great tool to have for flight, stealth, and defensiveness. Not everyone will share this viewpoint, but druids are the most fun to play when the druid asserts their desire to protect nature/enforce balance even when it comes at odds with what others in the party want to do. Like cleric, the class has been around the longest, so it has a huge amount of archetypes and character options.

Oracles have the strongest themes to play around with, in my opinion. They are powerful casters, and their mysteries can be both colorful and powerful. I do like how their curses are legitimate, permanent handicaps that grow into mechanical benefits as you level up. They also have a wide range of spells to choose from, although this is focused by the curse and mystery chosen.

Shamans I have the least amount of experience with, but I agree with Tim that they are on the complicated side of the classes. Play one eventually, but I don't recommend it as your first divine full caster. Like oracles, they have a lot going for them thematically.


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So; I'm personally not that big a fan of clerics. They're all pretty similar to each other. Sure you can still specialize your spells and channel either positive or negative energy; but they just don't have enough class features. Plus I don't especially like prepared casting. When you don't have good information about what you're doing the following day its easy to fail to have sufficient spells prepared. If you're fine with having a mediocre loadout of buff and summoning spells when you don't have a good idea of what threats are head; Cleric is very beginner friendly for a 9th level caster.

Druid is another prepared class, and its kinda campaign dependent. The more outdoorsy your campaign -> the better the druid will feel. Not just from class features, but Wild Shape provides unparrelled scouting and movement even if you're not building to punch things as a bear. I love being able to choose a companion, domain, or free potions as appropriate. Again, I'm not a big fan of playing a prepared caster but at the same time a lot of Druid Spells are so incredibly situational that when you need them you'll have time to rest and prepare them. Wildshape is not beginner friendly though; especially if you aren't making yourself spare sheets for whatever form you take. Keeping track of all the various polymorph bonuses and size changes is a lot of work.

Oracle was my first class and I much prefer them. You have a number of different abilities thanks to your curse and mystery; you do have to pick and choose your spells as a spontaneous caster but you can spam them to your hearts content based on the situation. Its weaker than say the Sorcerer, just because of the nature of the cleric list, but being able to spam your spells instead of saving them for the exact moment they're needed is a huge upgrade in my book. Its the divine sorcerer and I love it for that.

Shaman is another class that I'm fond of; mostly for its incredible utility. Every day the Shaman can focus on doing something a little different for the party. Hexes are also quite nice as non-spell actions, even if you're locked out of the really good witch hexes. Again, its a third prepared class though and its native spell list is fairly niche. On the flip side you get to augment that with the spirit magic from your spirits for the day. Its the most work of any of the classes but also I think the most versatile. Fun if you don't mind the paper work.


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I am not much of a fan of the Cleric and that is because I find them mechanically boring. Add an archetype or two that change things up and you've got my attention again. Their domains and channel energy are pretty much the only thing they have going for them outside of their spell list. Also, I'm not that much of a fan of prepared casters. I am not knocking the Cleric by any means. It is a solid and powerful class. I just find them not very aesthetically pleasing. If given the choice between a Cleric and a 6th level casting divine class with more class features, I'd pick the 6th level caster almost every time.

Oracles... well, I like spontaneous casters so this is more my style despite the later spell access. The mystery, revelations, and curse allow you a great deal of flexibility in creating what you want. I would say this is my favorite class out of the four, except ... its not. It gets REALLY close when you use the Spirit Guide archetype, because now it pulls in some things from the Shaman class, which is my favorite class. They've got the spell slots to heal, access to channel energy (two forms through Spirit Guide and the Life/Restoration spirit).

Druid... I vastly prefer to play a druid over a cleric. Despite sharing a few things (like prepared casting, domain access), I just like the flavor and versatility that wild shape and having an animal companion allows. I enjoy the buffs and druid specific spells. And the archetypes are ... well, there are a bunch of duds that only shift a few things, but then there are others like Elemental Ally that just tickle me. Druids are not the best healers, lacking access to Channel Energy except through very specific domains that effect very specific subtypes. The selection of certain feats to enhance your wildshape can even let you smite very similarly to a Paladin. Druid is my 'go to' divine caster selection when I'm playing a wilderness themed or adjacent game.

Now, for Shaman. I am dangerously biased towards this class for what could appear to hypocritical reasons. It is a prepared caster, but CAN spontaneously cast their spirit spells depending on selections. They combine the two class I enjoy a lot (witches and oracles). Even before archetypes, their range of versatility is impressive. They are the ONLY CLASS that can combine the powers of a familiar and animal companion in one creature.


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General observations: All four can be versatile in multiple roles; and in some cases dominant in multiple roles. There are also a lot of options with customizing the character (some classes more than others).

Cleric: The most straightforward choice. Most of the class customization comes from choices made during character creation (channeling, deity, domains, possibly archetype[s]) and the spells prepared each day, although there are some feat choices that impact class features and also some prestige classes that may be suitable for a given concept. Requires more effort by the player to stay on the "straight and narrow" with regards to serving the interests of their church/deity (some deities [and GMs] are more strict about this than others).

Druid: Even more versatile with regards to roles than a cleric (blasting and infiltration, for instance), but (again) most customization comes during creation and the spells prepared each day. The customization can have more of an effect on class features than with a cleric. Certain feats (such as Natural Spell) are considered "must haves" and there may be fewer suitable prestige classes for customization after character creation. Generally has more freedom than a cleric with regard to actions.

Oracle: Very customizable mechanically and thematically during creation (mystery) and when advancing (revelations, spells known), but more limited on day-to-day versatility (although the spirit guide archetype allows you to work around that). Can possibly be one of the strongest archers (Wood mystery, Wood Bond revelation, elf or half-elf for proficiency with a bow and the alternate favored class bonus to boost the [competence] bonus from Wood Bond [effectively the same bonus to bow attacks as a full BAB class 19 out of 20 levels], divine favor or divine power [luck bonus]; possibly 4 levels of the Deadeye Devotee prestige class) while retaining 9th-level spell access.

Shaman: Probably the most complicated choice. Choosing hexes, spirits, etc. can induce "analysis paralysis" in some players; especially since some choices are made during creation/advancement and some can be changed each day (or even more frequently in some cases). Can range from very powerful to meh, depending on the player's choices for the character.


I love Clerics but I keep wishing we had something more like speciality preists from 2e. Domains are just not flavorful enough. They are, however, more balanced.

The rest are OK. Very powerful and useful if done right, but I've no special attachment to them.


ShroudedInLight wrote:
I don't especially like prepared casting. When you don't have good information about what you're doing the following day its easy to fail to have sufficient spells prepared. If you're fine with having a mediocre loadout of buff and summoning spells when you don't have a good idea of what threats are head;

I dispute the logic of this.

Certainly it is much better if you are playing a prepared caster and know what challenges are ahead and can prepare spells accordingly.

If you do not you just have to prepare spells which are generally useful, which is nowhere near as good. Perfectly logical up to here.

BUT, this puts the prepared caster in the same position as the spontaneous caster. OK, the spontaneous caster has [slightly] more spells and can use their spells known in any combination, which is great. But they are one level behind in getting access to 2nd and higher level spells, which is dreadful.

What seals the deal for me in favour of prepared casters is spontaneous casters is the latter can only ever use their spells known without items. Divine prepared casters are particularly good as they have immediate access to every spell on their list.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

GENERALLY, in response to the original question, the responses above are pretty much in consensus, and I agree with that consensus.

So I am going to talk about my favourite divine caster, the Speaker for the Past Shaman.

I have not played a Shaman with the wandering spirit feature. It is obviously excellent and is what makes shaman's unique. But it is too much work for me and risks me holding up the game while I update for the day.

The Speaker for the Past trades this away for improvements to the classes skills and spell list and a total of 5 oracle revelations over 20 levels. A standard Oracle gets 7. And you get to draw from 2 oracle mysteries, the good Ancestors and Time, which is as good as it gets.

The result is a PC with a good arsenal or hexes, revelations and spells that all run off wisdom. This provides great flexibility in how you can meet the challenges of the game. Further, using hexes and sometimes revelations tends to save spells or allow an alternative when spells are running low.


Spirit guide is fantastic and probably the most powerful oracle archetype.

I played one in a skulls and shackles, very flexible, can adjust to situations, still plays quickly and smoothly.


Joynt Jezebel wrote:

OK, the spontaneous caster has [slightly] more spells and can use their spells known in any combination, which is great. But they are one level behind in getting access to 2nd and higher level spells, which is dreadful.

What seals the deal for me in favour of prepared casters is spontaneous casters is the latter can only ever use their spells known without items. Divine prepared casters are particularly good as they have immediate access to every spell on their list.

Access to the spells one level later is painful, but that’s how much value I place on being able to use your spells in any combination. I will give the divine lists credit for giving you the whole list for prepared casting, but as you mentioned items do exist. Scrolls, potions, staffs, and a mnemonic vestment can go a long way to solving your (non-combat) versatility problems as a spontaneous caster.

End of the day it’s just a preference thing. 9th level casters are poweful regardless of casting method by nature of being 9th level casters. I was just offering my opinion as someone who frequently plays divine characters.


@Shrouded Light- Different people evaluate things differently.

One of the times I played a spontaneous caster I crafted a mnemonic vestment with the same enchantment put in the item a second time, at 150% cost, so I could use it twice a day. That item is the spontaneous casters best friend imho.


Mnemonic vestment alleviate a lot of things, like, its a once a day semi spellbook with stuff like "Remove X", or stone shape, or other situationally useful but not *pick me!* spells.

I enjoy bloodrager/fighter/Barbarian X divine casters a lot, an am particularly fond of Steelblood (bloodrager) 1/oracle characters. You have heavy armor, martial weapons, a bloodrage, a few situational boni, but are still eventually a full caster, even if it takes to level 5 to get level 2 magic.

Swashbuckler/oracle works great too, lots and lots of panache.


Liliyashanina wrote:

Spirit guide is fantastic and probably the most powerful oracle archetype.

I played one in a skulls and shackles, very flexible, can adjust to situations, still plays quickly and smoothly.

I may be missing something as I have never played the archetype and haven't played a oracle.

Spirit Guide gets only a restricted version of the wandering spirit and grants only one hex, which wanders too. It costs 3 revelations, leaving only 3.

My favoured Speaker for the Past gets 5 revelations and 8 hexes. It seems to me that this must be much better. Can the restricted wandering spirit really be that good?


Joynt Jezebel wrote:

I may be missing something as I have never played the archetype and haven't played a oracle.

Spirit Guide gets only a restricted version of the wandering spirit and grants only one hex, which wanders too. It costs 3 revelations, leaving only 3.

My favoured Speaker for the Past gets 5 revelations and 8 hexes. It seems to me that this must be much better. Can the restricted wandering spirit really be that good?

Spirit Guide Oracles also receive (some of) the spirit abilities of the spirit as well as access to the spirit magic spells, which they add to their spells known for they day. The added spells alone is pretty much worth a single revelation, while the spirit abilities themselves are each generally equivalent to a revelation. The fact that you can CHANGE them every day makes them very valuable.

For the Life Spirit, that is:
Spells: detect undead (1st), lesser restoration (2nd), neutralize poison (3rd), restoration (4th), breath of life (5th), heal (6th), greater restoration (7th), mass heal (8th), true resurrection (9th)
Spirit Abilities: Channel Energy (7th level) and Healer's Touch (15th level).

Personally, I'd put a Spirit Guide Oracle and a basic Shaman on the same footing of power. The Oracle edges out the Shaman for having a better spell list, but the Shaman gets access to higher level spells a level earlier. I am extremely biased with these two classes though.


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Gaining an extra spell per spell level for a spontaneous caster is a huge advantage. Being able to change those spells on a daily basis make it even better. The fact that many of these spells are not on the oracle spell list makes the ability incredibly powerful. You can always take extra feat Extra revelations to regain your lost revelations. But no feats will give you the ability to swap out 17 different spells known of each spell level you can cast.

A 16th level spirit guide oracle of the heavens with the blackened curse will have 29 spells known of up to 8th level just from his mystery, curse and sprit, including all cure spells. That still leave the player the full allotment of spells known to choose. After taking extra revelation 3 times you still have 6 feats left. If you take the restoration (or life spirit) you get most of the condition removal spells and breadth of life can restore a dead character. You will also have channel energy to heal and can take enhanced cures to boost your cure spells, especially the lower-level cures. Play a race that gets extra spells known to give you even more spells known. At this point the limited number of spells of a spontaneous caster is not really that much of a limit. You know more spells than the cleric can memorize and can cast more spells.


Thanks. Now I know what I was missing.


Cleric with a 1 level dip into Slayer.


Waterhammer wrote:
Cleric with a 1 level dip into Slayer.

But why?


ShroudedInLight wrote:
Waterhammer wrote:
Cleric with a 1 level dip into Slayer.
But why?

Slayer gives access to a bunch of class skills. Especially perception. Studied target is good. The boost to your reflex save won’t hurt. Access to martial weapons. +1BAB. And the cleric has excellent spell casting.

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