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Here's what I'm hoping we MIGHT see in the Remastered Psychic:
1) 3-slots. Seriously. Just... why was it ever 2???
2) Get rid of stupify from Unleashed Psyche. Maybe also extend the duration.
3) Alter Oscillating Wave's Conservation of Energy feature, to just letting you turn fire to cold or cold to fire, without needing to balance it out.
4) Rewrite the Subconscious Mind related feats. Especially the Wandering Reverie one.
5) Okay, this last one is just wishful thinking on my part, but: GIVE PSYCHICS the ability to IGNORE mindless trait when dealing MENTAL DAMAGE!!!Fish from Spongebob: "Boo! You stink!"I think that a non-intrusive, minor change to the Psychic that they could make would be in their proficiencies. I think you could add a lot to the Psychic by giving them trained proficiency in all Tech weapons, from Starfinder 2e.
... Hey, no one said we had to submit GOOD ideas.
Playing a psychic at 11th level now I would really LOVE to see 1, 2 and 5. I'm playing a silent whisper psychic and it gets super rough when we face any kind of mindless enemy....
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I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
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I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
Precision damage on oozes
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Precision damage on oozesI'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
*Looks up Ooze trait*
Huh...*Does additional research*
Well, you do indeed make a good point, however, not only is precision damage considered a supplemental form of damage, rather than a damage type, but there are currently
237 creatures with the Mindless trait (including legacy and adventure path content)
compared to:
49 creatures with the Ooze trait (again, including legacy and adventure path content).
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I don't know right away what could be done for these, but all the conscious minds that don't work with the system. Unbound Step, Tangible Dream, Oscillating Wave, and Distant Grasp all had basically only the ability to attack vs AC with Amps. With the remaster, Oscillating Wave now has a save option in frostbite. Infinite Eye doesn't have any offensive amp and doesn't interact with unleash psyche. Silent whisper is carried by Shatter Mind. Daze, Unbound Step, Tangible Dream, and Infinite Eye still have big system problems, and Distant Grasp to a lesser degree.
For a lot of Minds the core tool in their kit is big single target ranged damage against AC as a caster.
...What are you talking about?
How does targeting AC make those Minds not work? When has a spell targeting AC ever been terrible? How is targeting Saves better than AC?Also, you seem to only be looking at the Standard and Surface cantrips, but not the Deeper or Deepest cantrips, which tend to be save spells.
I'm just not sure what point you're trying to make?
How do Silent Whisper, Unbound STep, Tangible Dream, Infinite Eye, and Distant Grasp bad???
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Precision damage on oozesI'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
*Looks up Ooze trait*
Huh...
*Does additional research*
Well, you do indeed make a good point, however, not only is precision damage considered a supplemental form of damage, rather than a damage type, but there are currently237 creatures with the Mindless trait (including legacy and adventure path content)
compared to:
49 creatures with the Ooze trait (again, including legacy and adventure path content).
And oozes have low AC and often low reflex saves. You can rip them apart fairly easy. They are like golems used to be to casters to martials. Casters can rip apart oozes.
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I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
The problem is that it's a lot easier to fix Psychic if the changes aren't also available to the archetype, especially when it's already one of the strongest archetypes in the game. It's not like it matters that the archetype only gets 2 amp cantrips vs up to 5: most people taking the archetype are really only taking it for 1 amp cantrip. (Imaginary Weapon/Guidance/Warp Step being some popular ones.)
Putting some limits around that would help a lot because it opens up some space to tweak things that help Psychic more than it helps all the archetype users.
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I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
The problem is that it's a lot easier to fix Psychic if the changes aren't also available to the archetype, especially when it's already one of the strongest archetypes in the game. It's not like it matters that the archetype only gets 2 amp cantrips vs up to 5: most people taking the archetype are really only taking it for 1 amp cantrip. (Imaginary Weapon/Guidance/Warp Step being some popular ones.)
Putting some limits around that would help a lot because it opens up some space to tweak things that help Psychic more than it helps all the archetype users.
Then in that case, perhaps the first Psi Cantrip needs to be decupled from the dedication? Like, you need take a feat to get one of the two Standard cantrips, and a second feat to get either the other Standard or the Surface cantrip?
Also, at least as far as Imaginary Weapon goes, it requires two feats to get (first then dedication, then Psi Development at 6th level).
...Actually, do players and GM realize you can't get the Surface cantrip of a conscious mind with the Dedication feat?
Then in that case, perhaps the first Psi Cantrip needs to be decupled from the dedication? Like, you need take a feat to get one of the two Standard cantrips, and a second feat to get either the other Standard or the Surface cantrip?
That makes it a pretty weak dedication itself, though it would definitely limited it in a non-FA game. Archetype feat taxes are much more effective in the core rules than they are with FA, where it's probably still worth paying for some of these.
A cooldown on how often you can actually amp (like once per 10 minutes) would probably help since at least only a Psychic can spam it.
Also, at least as far as Imaginary Weapon goes, it requires two feats to get (first then dedication, then Psi Development at 6th level).
Magus is often willing to pay it, so maybe this won't help, heh.
...Actually, do players and GM realize you can't get the Surface cantrip of a conscious mind with the Dedication feat?
I haven't run into this as a frequent problem, though a lot of people use Pathbuilder these days and it does constrain this correctly. Someone doing it by hand could make that mistake.
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The issue with giving strong focus spells out to different classes is that with focus pools it's pretty all-or nothing: if you obtain even one single focus spell that's as strong as a slot spell or close to it, you don't even need to access any more of those ultra-strong focus spells to build up to a pool of 3 Focus Points that you can use to cast that mega-focus spell three times per encounter at full power. As Tridus points out, even if the Psychic MC dedication doesn't offer any amps but Psi Development still does, Magus players would still pick the archetype and get that feat at level 6 just to be able to cast imaginary weapon multiple times every encounter.
That to me is why the Psychic's amps shouldn't be made available to other classes at all: it's not like the Druid where their focus spells are somewhat above-average, their amps are so powerful and such a core part of their power budget that being able to poach those does genuinely mean other classes get the best bits of the Psychic along with their own power. That the Psychic archetype, overtuned as it currently is, isn't a must-pick on every caster to me suggests that a lot of amps ought to be improved significantly... but only once those amps are locked out of access to those other classes.
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IMO an easy solution for the MC problem is just to remove or limit the AMP usages from the archetype. There are several ways to do this:
Other simple and easier solution is to change the Immaginary Weapon to be a 1d6 per rank (2d6 when amped) with 9ft range like a bit stronger Slashing Gust. This also helps to make it more useful for Psychic class.
Not sure this has been suggested.
But what if Unleash allowed you to play 1 focus point per round (on psychic focus spells / amps) without actually expending the point?
Not a big text change but solves a couple problems and is simple.
That would increase sustained blasting while unleashed. Wouldn't change the stupefy problem, but would help conserve focus points for longer fights.
As it is the psychic is probably the one class that does best in very short duration fights while being severely hamstrung in any fight lasting longer than a few rounds whether it is running out of focus points or dealing with trying to cast while stupefied for 2 rounds.
Very limited class.
I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
I think it's also important to note that as well as the ooze example, there's also void/vitality's whole deal being "void damage does nothing vs undead & vitality damage does nothing vs anything which isn't undead". Now, you might argue that there's still the element of "oh but even then they're still affected by void & vitality healing" to which it is still important to point to the construct trait giving you immunity to both void/vitality damage and healing.
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I think it's also important to note that as well as the ooze example, there's also void/vitality's whole deal being "void damage does nothing vs undead & vitality damage does nothing vs anything which isn't undead". Now, you might argue that there's still the element of "oh but even then they're still affected by void & vitality healing" to which it is still important to point to the construct trait giving you immunity to both void/vitality damage and healing.I'm about to start my psychic in seasons of ghosts. I have been wracking my brain for a way to make a psychic that could actually focus on using IW and not die horribly. The fact that probably the defining ability of the psychic amped cantrips can be poached via dedication seems wrong. You allow someone to be better at it than a psychic.
3 slots would be great, changing Unleashed really is to my mind a must, and having a way to better deal with mindless is very much needed - feat, something.
You should probably take generous advantage of your Amped Shield cantrip, alongside the Precise Discipline's Calculate Threat ability. Maybe also invest in a decent parry weapon. Anything that helps raise that AC.
Eh, I'm okay with the MC archetype as is. After all, it can only give access to 2 psi cantrips, where as a Psychic will have 5. Heck, you can't even get the surface cantrip without taking a feat separate from the dedication. This isn't like the ReMastered Oracle MC archetype.
And yeah, the whole 'Mindless' trait is one of my few gripes about how Paizo handles psychic magic. I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"
While that may also be true, Eldritch Yodel, it is worth noting that there are currently 45 vitality and 45 void spells (which is counting spells that just have the trait and don't deal damage)
Meanwhile, there are currently 264 spells with the mental trait (again, this includes spells that don't do damage).
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Yes, though it's still just important to note the answer to "I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"" is "Yes, there are in fact at least five separate traits which this is the case" (as there's also bleed and poison to bring up). To make the statement accurate you're having to go with "Is there any other damage type besides mental which is really commonly used that also isn't an supplemental damage type or is poison". I'm not a fan on how common mental immunities are either, but it's hard to say "There's traits which give you immunity to that" is a particularly unique issue (Also really the "inherent trait rules" doesn't matter so much as just "how likely to come across". Whilst it's technically not inherent to the traits, over literally 95% of incorporeal creatures and swarms are immune to precision damage meaning you're pretty much equally as likely to run into precision immunities as mental immunities)
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Yes, though it's still just important to note the answer to "I mean, seriously, is there any other damage type besides mental that has a trait that says "This does absolutely nothing"" is "Yes, there are in fact at least five separate traits which this is the case" (as there's also bleed and poison to bring up). To make the statement accurate you're having to go with "Is there any other damage type besides mental which is really commonly used that also isn't an supplemental damage type or is poison". I'm not a fan on how common mental immunities are either, but it's hard to say "There's traits which give you immunity to that" is a particularly unique issue (Also really the "inherent trait rules" doesn't matter so much as just "how likely to come across". Whilst it's technically not inherent to the traits, over literally 95% of incorporeal creatures and swarms are immune to precision damage meaning you're pretty much equally as likely to run into precision immunities as mental immunities)
Indeed.
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I tried to add how Unleash Psyche needs to be buffed in terms of duration and/or the Stupefy needs to be removed, but an error happened.
I'll just say that Sorcerer's Sorcerous Potency proves that Unleash Psyche should be buffed.
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Was making an archer animist, that circumstances made me had to switch to a thaumaturge, and it made me realize, would be nice to see Thaumaturge have an avenue toward two-handed weapons. Or at the very least 1+ handed weapons.
I do agree that Paizo should let bows be an option (especially if you choose a bow as the weapon implement)...
This thread is supposed to be about speculation for the Remastered Psychic.On that note... I'd honestly like it if they uncouple the Psychic's casting attribute from the Subconscious Mind.
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Was making an archer animist, that circumstances made me had to switch to a thaumaturge, and it made me realize, would be nice to see Thaumaturge have an avenue toward two-handed weapons. Or at the very least 1+ handed weapons.
You're not prohibited from using those. You're proficient (martial) and exploit weakness works just fine. It might be a bit difficult to activate exploit weakness because you need to be holding an implement for that, but you could do that just fine if your weapon implement has the two-hand trait.
What it doesn't let you do though is implement's empowerment with a 2H or 1H+ weapon. The probable reason for why it was designed that way, is that IE is meant to compensate you for the lower damage you do because you need a hand free to hold implements/esoterica.
IE is roughly comparable to 2 damage die sizes, which is also roughly the difference between 1H and 2H weapons.
If you found a way (like, a weapon implement with two-hand trait) to hold implements and use a 2H weapon, then you wouldn't need to be compensated anymore because you aren't actually falling behind in damage.
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And that clause was removed.No, it was added in the Player Core under Weapon Statistics/Hands. Where as previously it didn't exist at all and thus needed an errata/clarification.
If an action or other ability requires you to use a “two-handed weapon,” it applies for any weapon you wield in two hands. Any permanent adjustments to the weapon, such as a rune that can be added to a “one-handed weapon,” uses the Hands entry in the weapon table exactly (1+ counts as one-handed for this purpose).
"If an action or other ability requires you to use a “two-handed weapon,” it applies for any weapon you wield in two hands" does not suggest that holding a weapon with 2h to shoot it (as a bow requires) counts as a 1h weapon. Quite the opposite.
It says it counts as a 2h weapon while wielding it with 2h. The runes need a clarification because otherwise a bunch of runes would turn on/turn off depending on how many hands you have on it at the time and that would just be overly complicated with a bastard sword.
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Was making an archer animist, that circumstances made me had to switch to a thaumaturge, and it made me realize, would be nice to see Thaumaturge have an avenue toward two-handed weapons. Or at the very least 1+ handed weapons.
If you want an "archer" thamaturge, you can always take the crossbow infiltrator archetype (in Battlecry!)...
I wouldn't mind it but at the same time bows are like, the default ranged assumption for almost every other ranged build (to the point where they had to modify singular expertise just to make sure gunslingers didn't use bows too) and two-handed weapons are likewise pretty default. It's kind of cool that the thaumaturge is built to point you to other weapons (even if they're essentially two-handing anyways).
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I'm aware, but I wanted a bow. Was going for a Kikyō vibe as it was for Season of Ghosts. I did end up taking the sukgong instead. But I still would have rather had a daikyū. Just not the vibe, feels too technological. I want an elegant bow, not a medieval gat!
But yeah, for now I'm working with it. Just voicing a wish for the remaster.
...And I understand and sympathize with that moosher12.
THIS IS A THREAD ABOUT THE PSYCHIC, MOOSHER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
YOU WANT TO EXPRESS YOUR WISHES FOR THE REMASTERED THAUMATURGE, THEN MAKE A THREAD ABOUT THAT! STOP USING THIS ONE!
YOU ARE DERAILING THE THREAD BY DOING THAT!
HECK, IF YOU WANT, I'LL MAKE SUCH A THREAD FOR YOU!
*Refocused*
Sorry, it's just that you've been told this, Moosher. Stop derailing the thread.
And with that off my chest...
As for Psychic, I feel like all of the good suggestions has already been said but I want more 'weird' spell-like powers from feats. They already have some of it but I want to see more sub-class specific ones.
Agreed, NorrKnekten. Right now, each Subconscious Mind only has a feat each.
Not to mention, Dream Guise seems pointless, while Emotional Surge should be available to all, IMO.| 1 person marked this as a favorite. |
tbh I think maybe the risk/reward mechanic (at least in its current form) for Unleash should just go away.
It doesn't feel that strategic to me, and the timing is incredibly awkward because a lot of fights might not last long enough for the downsides to even matter. I feel like 3 rounds is a really common breakpoint for a lot of normal combats, which means the stupefied doesn't matter, and even 4 round combats are probably entering cleanup mode by the time you have to worry about the downside.
Unless it's an especially long fight, most of the time the mechanics just make the psychic feel a little bit worse at the very start and very end of a fight, maybe, and not so much like a strategic ability I'm timing for maximum effect.
I sort of wonder if some kind of damage bonus might be something they should just have 'for free' and Unleash could be a more proactive ability rather than just a buff you get to turn on on round 2.