How does the Ironbound Sword Samurai work?

[Adamarh]

Hello i want to make a samurai and i saw the ironbound Sword but i dont know i'm i understood the third level feature correctly.

From what I understood if you are SAM 5 and FIG 10 then you :

- dont have The Greater Resolve(SAM 9) or the Honorable Stand (SAM 11 )
- You have challenge 5/day (as if you were 15 SAM) and Bravery +4 (as if you were FIG 15 )

You only progress the feature that you already unlock at your true class level (SAM 5 /FIG 10).

What i dont know :
- How does the order power work ? (since they derivate from the Order feature do they scale?)
-The bonus feat is a feature that say "you gain 1 bonus at this level then you gain another every X level." does it scale with combined level or true class level?

Another question but not about the class but about the Unconquerable Resolve, the wording seems weird for me because it said "These temporary hit points are lost first when you take damage, disappear after 1 minute, and are replenished each time you use the resolve class feature" so ok when i use it then i have 1 min before they vanish but at the after it say "Temporary hit points gained in this way persist for 24 hours and then, if you haven’t lost them, they disappear." So what is it --'

And last question, should i go vanilla fighter or is there a good archetype to got with samurai?

[Mysterious Stranger]

It only progresses class abilities you already have. It will not give class features including bonus feats you do not have, but it will allow you to pick up fighter only (or Samuria Only if there are any) feats with the prerequisite of specific fighter levels. So, you can pick up greater weapon specialization even though it has a prerequisite of fighter level 12.

[Tom Sampson]

As written, the Bonus Feats feature of the Fighter does indeed scale with class level (providing more feats depending on the Fighter level) and would therefore scale with the Ironbound Sword Samurai because you already obtain the Bonus Feats class feature with 1 level of Fighter, but you should likely discuss it with your GM as most GMs quite reasonably have balance concerns about this and would therefore not rule it that way regardless of the RAW.

[Belafon]

There was a thread about this archetype, particularly the last sentence of the Merciful Combatant ability, some 5 years ago.

Quote:

Merciful Combatant (Ex): At 3rd level, an ironbound sword becomes an expert at defeating foes without killing them. An ironbound sword can use any weapon to deal nonlethal damage without taking the normal –4 penalty on attack rolls. Additionally, the ironbound sword gains a +2 bonus on combat maneuvers against a target so long as the last successful attack she made against that target dealt nonlethal damage. Her samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with fighter levels for the purposes of fighter and samurai prerequisites and class features.

Pretty much everyone agreed that there is no way the ability is supposed to act the way it seems to read. Take 1 level of fighter, then all Ironbound Sword levels and you are a full level fighter AND a full-level samurai? No, that's not right. Something in the language got changed in development or editing.

Now, is it too powerful? I don't know your game. Some campaigns have players with gestalt characters. But letting it stand as written is way out of scale with every other samurai and completely deprecates the fighter.

The best guess I have seen is that the last sentence ought to say something like "Her samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with any fighter levels she possesses for the purposes of meeting the prerequisites for feats."

[Tottemas]

"- How does the order power work ? (since they derivate from the Order feature do they scale?)

-The bonus feat is a feature that say "you gain 1 bonus at this level then you gain another every X level." does it scale with combined level or true class level?"

yes, the order scales with combined level. the class feature is called "order" and the class list is just reminder text. like how "bravery +2" is just reminder text for the fighter

yes, the bonus feat class feature scales with combined level. like before with bravery, and other examples like rogue talents, sneak attack, and rage powers. the class list is just reminder text

"And last question, should i go vanilla fighter or is there a good archetype to got with samurai?"

6 levels of viking could be cool

[Belafon]

I'm going to answer the questions, which will drive home (bludgeon) the point about the ability really being incorrect as written.

Adamarh wrote:

From what I understood if you are SAM 5 and FIG 10 then you :

- dont have The Greater Resolve(SAM 9) or the Honorable Stand (SAM 11 )
- You have challenge 5/day (as if you were 15 SAM) and Bravery +4 (as if you were FIG 15 )

You only progress the feature that you already unlock at your true class level (SAM 5 /FIG 10).

Nope, that's not what the ability says. "Her samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with fighter levels for the purposes of fighter and samurai prerequisites and class features."

It doesn't say "for the effects of class features" it says "for class features." You would have greater resolve and honorable stand. You would also have Demanding Challenge and Blade Reversal.

Quote:

- How does the order power work ? (since they derivate from the Order feature do they scale?)

As if you were a 15th-level cavalier. "Her samurai levels count as fighter levels and stack with fighter levels for the purposes of fighter and samurai prerequisites and class features." The 5 fighter levels stack with the 10 cavalier levels for the purpose of the Order class feature.

Quote:

-The bonus feat is a feature that say "you gain 1 bonus at this level then you gain another every X level." does it scale with combined level or true class level?

You would have all the bonus feats of a 15th-level fighter. Just like with Order, the 10 cavalier levels stack with the 5 fighter levels to determine the number of bonus feats. You would also get the 6th-level and 12th-level cavalier bonus feats.

[Belafon]

Adamarh wrote:

Another question but not about the class but about the Unconquerable Resolve, the wording seems weird for me because it said "These temporary hit points are lost first when you take damage, disappear after 1 minute, and are replenished each time you use the resolve class feature" so ok when i use it then i have 1 min before they vanish but at the after it say "Temporary hit points gained in this way persist for 24 hours and then, if you haven’t lost them, they disappear." So what is it --'

There is a developer clarification that the hit points last one minute

Quote:

And last question, should i go vanilla fighter or is there a good archetype to got with samurai?

Depends on what you want to do. I personally think the dragoon would be a good choice since the dragoon (finally!) gets an animal companion mount that way.

[Adamarh]

Ok thanks for the answers i think i understood a little better the archetype and how it work.

While thinking about wich order taking i saw the Order of the flame and i was wondering if the Glorious Challenge would give resolve if you defeat the target since it said "acts like a cavalier’s challenge class feature"?

[Belafon]

Adamarh wrote:

While thinking about wich order taking i saw the Order of the flame and i was wondering if the Glorious Challenge would give resolve if you defeat the target since it said "acts like a cavalier’s challenge class feature"?

Check with your GM. Literal GMs might say no for a couple of reasons; it acts like a cavalier's challenge not a samurai's, and it "acts like" but has a different name than the Challenge class feature. A lot would allow it. More "spirit of the rules" GMs (like me) might say no because it's exploitable.