I'm planning to run a PFS scenario containing a battle with legacy harpies (the ones that had Captivating Song). I thought it would be as simple as just using the remastered harpy (the one with Stench), as normal for implementing the remaster rules. But upon closer inspection, these encounters also contain variants of the legacy harpies.
The only differences between legacy harpies and these variant harpies are that the variants have higher levels, higher stats to match, and one extra offensive ability.
Should I have the remastered harpies fight alongside these legacy variants? Or should I do with the remastered stat-block what the author did with the legacy stat-block to create the variants?
I'm supposed to not use the remastered harpy at all? I thought I was supposed to treat remaster material as errata.
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That's for character options.
See details here
Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible.
Example: Recall Knowledge has been updated with additional guidelines. These take effect immediately at all PFS tables.
Example: The Refocus activity and the focus spell rules have been updated to be more intuitive. All characters immediately begin using these rules.
Example: Monster abilities like Grab are no longer automatic; instead, they require a skill check as part of attempting the action. GMs immediately begin using this new version of the rules.
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All the treat is errata text is part of the Character Options section.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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While it might seem counterintuitive, yeah, NPCs stay as they were. The idea of PFS is that everyone has the same experience (barring any egregious errata). Plenty of people have experienced the pre-remaster Harpy, so people post-remaster should experience it as well. Especially since some monsters might have gotten updates the scenario doesn't account for.
And with the modified monsters, transplanting pre-remaster abilities onto post-remaster might just break things, or cause needless confusion and/or mistakes with changing numbers. For example, I don't know the scenario you're speaking of, but I can imagine the tactics saying something about using their song to lure people in. In the remaster, they have lost that ability and their tactic would be invalidated (granted, they have something similar, but still).
While it might seem counterintuitive, yeah, NPCs stay as they were. The idea of PFS is that everyone has the same experience (barring any egregious errata). Plenty of people have experienced the pre-remaster Harpy, so people post-remaster should experience it as well. Especially since some monsters might have gotten updates the scenario doesn't account for.
And with the modified monsters, transplanting pre-remaster abilities onto post-remaster might just break things, or cause needless confusion and/or mistakes with changing numbers. For example, I don't know the scenario you're speaking of, but I can imagine the tactics saying something about using their song to lure people in. In the remaster, they have lost that ability and their tactic would be invalidated (granted, they have something similar, but still).
Actually, the scenario doesn't give any tactics advice beyond what the harpies hope to accomplish by fighting and how they might be dissuaded. And even so, if a monster's tactics are invalidated by errata, PFS rules say to change the tactics, not use an outdated version of the monster.
There's also another monster earlier in this adventure that is built around being immune to a trait that does not exist anymore. But that's a separate thread I will link here.
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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But again, it's intended that people have the same experience all over the world, regardless of edition (unless grossly invalidated, as you said). If the intent was to function like X and the alternative doesn't allow for that, then it's clear what should be done.
So okay, it doesn't matter in this instance, but I've seen Harpies used in First Edition where they sing as soon as people get within its area of effect and hope to coup de grace them. That's 300 feet, so essentially they lure you in from afar and hypnotise you before you know what's going on. That would be completely impossible woth the new version of the harpies, so the intended use is clear: use the old version, so the ambush is still possible. That way, you still give new players the same experience as the people before the remaster.
They are not ambushing the players. In fact, it's the players who walk in on them as they are searching a room for treasure, and they can even be bribed into leaving. Their Captivating Song has no impact on the circumstances surrounding the encounter.
But now that I take a closer look at the remastered harpy, its Putrid Plague could be problematic. It's a long-lasting disease, and any character still affected by it at the end of the adventure has to shell out money to get rid of it or else their character is marked dead. And earlier in the adventure (depending on tier of play) are some black puddings, so the players might already need to shell out money to replace destroyed gear.
I've sent an email to the venture officer for my area. Maybe they'll be able to confirm which stat-block I should/must use.
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*** The Pathfinder Society provides castings of cleanse affliction to clear poison and disease from PCs at no cost at the end of every mission. This free service does not include removing curses.
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Diseases are cleared from free.
Also:
All permanent afflictions must be cleared from the character before the end of the adventure. The following conditions are not automatically removed and must be cleared from the character before the end of the adventure or the character ceases to be available for Organized Play and must be marked dead on the Chronicle and when reporting the game:
Death
Permanent negative effects, including polymorph or petrification
Permanent curses
(Diseases are generally neither permanent or on the list of death reporting if not cleared)
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Venture-Agent, Netherlands—Utrecht
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My harpy example was just an example, it doesn't matter whether they have those specific tactics in this case or not. Like I said, it's about keeping the experience the same across the globe. If one person runs the singing harpies and someone else uses the diseased harpies, that's not the same experience. That's the part that matters.
I don't understood.
I understand your points about keep the same experience but this still contradicts with the first rule "Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible".
Where's the rule/guidance that says that you cannot update a creature to remaster?
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I don't understood.
I understand your points about keep the same experience but this still contradicts with the first rule "Players and GMs must use the remastered rules of the game immediately where possible".
Where's the rule/guidance that says that you cannot update a creature to remaster?
Let me try this again.
Rules are how things work. Like grab requiting a check.
A harpy stat block is not "rules of the game".
GMs are required to run Paizo Organized Play adventures as written
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I opened a new thread for the topic of using remaster monsters in older PFS adventures since that topic is more broad than just harpies. YuriP probably didn't see your post.
But to summarize my counterpoint, a stat block is a set of rules that defines how a creature works. Monster Core's introduction even says "Each creature’s rules appear in a stat block".