Say someone is afflicted by a sleeping poison that knocks them out for a minute each stage.
Then someone else uses a spell to counteract the poison (like a 3rd rank or higher Cleanse Affliction) halfway through a stage.
1, it sounds like the poison is just gone if everything goes correctly with the counteract (like say it's a rank 5 poison vs a rank 4 spell and the counteract check is a success), no more rolls or anything
2, do effects of the poison (like the sleep) also immediately go away? In other words, would the person immediately wake up or simply wake up when the current stage wears off since the poison is gone and there's no more saves to make?
1 yes
2 yes*, but in the specific case of sleep I'd say that the victim just continues sleeping, but can we waken up normally. Including perception checks because of noise.
* Though again this stays relevant:
"Conditions affect you when you reach the stage and last for their normal duration. For instance, if you were drained for an affliction with a maximum duration of 5 minutes, you remain drained after the affliction ends, as normal for the drained condition. A condition that automatically changes its value or ends under certain circumstances, like frightened, still does so. Any condition that doesn’t have a default duration, such as clumsy or paralyzed, lasts as long as you’re at that stage unless noted otherwise, as do any penalties or any other effect of the stage that doesn’t list a duration."
So drained would remain for example.
1) That is how I would run it. Cleanse Affliction is specifically created to interact with the multiple stages of afflictions. Rank 2 specifies that it only reduces the stage. Rank 3+ instead says that it counteracts the affliction - which I have to interpret as being different than just reducing the stage.
2) That is more open to interpretation. The rule that we have is:
Afflictions wrote: A condition that automatically changes its value or ends under certain circumstances, like frightened, still does so. Any condition that doesn’t have a default duration, such as clumsy or paralyzed, lasts as long as you’re at that stage unless noted otherwise, as do any penalties or any other effect of the stage that doesn’t list a duration. What isn't specified is if counteracting the affliction will immediately end the stage or if the stage continues for the remainder of its duration.
Personally, I would have the stage immediately end along with the affliction in its entirety. That seems to me to be the more natural reading of how counteract would interact with afflictions.
So any conditions that are dependent on the continued existence of the affliction stage (such as sleep or paralyzed) would immediately end. Any conditions that are not dependent on the existence of the stage because they have a natural way of being reduced or removed would persist for their normal duration.
For #1 Counteracting an affliction ends it completely.
My reading for #2 and using Lethargy poison as an example.The important part for Unconcious is this part. Afflictions; Damage and Conditions wrote: A condition that automatically changes its value or ends under certain circumstances, like frightened, still does so. Which means you stay unconcious until you either;
Take any amount of damage,
Recieve any amount of healing,
Succeed on the perception check to wake up at the start of your turn,
Someone wakes you with the Interact action.
My reading in the example of Lethargy poison is also that you can be awakened despite being in stage 3-4, but the benefits of this is dubious at best if you are at risk of falling unconcious again. Compare this to something like Slumber wine which states Slumber Wine wrote: Characters unconscious from slumber wine can't wake up by any means while the poison lasts,
NorrKnekten wrote: My reading in the example of Lethargy poison is also that you can be awakened despite being in stage 3-4, but the benefits of this is dubious at best if you are at risk of falling unconcious again. Well, stage 4 gives you one or several hours of action before that, without any penalties even. Not bad. If we don't suppose that this is a rule oversight and the poison should be harsher.
Errenor wrote: NorrKnekten wrote: My reading in the example of Lethargy poison is also that you can be awakened despite being in stage 3-4, but the benefits of this is dubious at best if you are at risk of falling unconcious again. Well, stage 4 gives you one or several hours of action before that, without any penalties even. Not bad. If we don't suppose that this is a rule oversight and the poison should be harsher. Maybe? I don't think so.
If you consider it takes at minimum 1 minute for someone to fall asleep from it, All the while being slowed until then. Creatures who use this poison both in this and earlier editions are delivering the poison from range and then waiting until their prey fall unconscious to properly attack.
Stupor poison too is similar in that its effect is absolutely devastating until you reach the several hours long stage.
Just as a follow up, I did ponder where the mention of Sleep poison comes from and turns out the Assassin NPC from the GMG has a Sleep Poison listed which was never printed outside of playtests. This is just the lethargy poison with stage 2 removed and no incap trait.
Max 4 hours,
Stage 1: Slowed(1 round),
Stage 2: Asleep with no perception check to wake(1 round),
Stage 3: Asleep with no perception check to wake(1d4 hours)
Though i did find that Asleep was a condition in the playtest and specified that certain effects make you sleep deeply enough to not be able to wake from the usual perception checks. You would still wake up if you took damage or someone used interact to shake you for example.
Slumber wine is found right beside sleep poison aswell, Same text as current.
Technically what I was concerned with was Slumber Wine and whether counteracting it would let the person immediately wake up or just when the current stage of poison wore off (so potentially a day or three).
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Balkoth wrote: Technically what I was concerned with was Slumber Wine and whether counteracting it would let the person immediately wake up or just when the current stage of poison wore off (so potentially a day or three). Right, the Poison's effect and therefore the stage itself immediatly ends upon a successful counteract. So the person can be awakened right away after the counteract by the normal means of recovering from the unconcious condition.
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