| JamesWTGames |
Hello all, first time actually posting in here and going to be honest this isn’t even the _start_ of my questions, but I was introduced into PF1e a few months ago, and have started running the Kingmaker AP recently. I have Ultimate Campaign (UCP), and Ultimate Rulership (UR) as rules expansions for the Kingdom Building parts of this and I wanted to ask questions pertaining to those first.
First, in UR for the Brickyard it states that it reduces the cost of Quarries to 6 BP. Though in UCP it lists the cost for Quarries at 6 BP. Is this a typo or was it originally more, and later errata’d?
Second for both the Brickyard and the Lumberyard in UR it says that Quarries/Sawmills generate 1 additional BP for every 2 Quarries/Sawmills. Does that mean in only the honeycomb of hexes (6 adjacent) surrounding the settlement with the Brickyard/Lumberyard generates 1 additional BP for their corresponding building from? Or is it saying per every 2 Quarries/Sawmills in your entire kingdom?
Third, if using the rules for UR, would you say the Foundry would similarly work like a Brickyard/Lumberyard for mines?
Fourth, in UCP it says that terrain improvements with a * can share their tile with other improvements. Quarries, Mines, and sawmills lack this (for obvious reasons I feel). So does this mean you actually can’t build a road through a forest tile that ends up with a Sawmill on it?
Fifth, for the purposes of ‘water dependent buildings’ when crafting aqueducts, how as the GM should I determine what is considered a ‘water border’ for a hex that has an aqueduct crossing through it?
Sixth, in a circumstance where you have a party where _none_ of them have good Handle Animal, if they built a menagerie, how as the GM should I determine what the ‘CR of the highest CR creature in the menagerie’ is? (this actually isn’t a problem with my group this is just a genuine question since 3 of my 5 players have decently high Handle Animal scores)
Seventh, for Granaries I take it that for _EACH_ granary you can store up to 5 BP of excess production? I also take it you cannot stack this IE 5 on the first turn, then 10 total on the second, then 15 on the third if you keep having a surplus?
Eighth, in regards to the Waterfront, Cathedral, & Palace their special benefits, these apply universally to your Kingdom? IE by building 1 Waterfront it halves the loyalty penalty on taxation across your entire Kingdom??? (this isn’t as important for the Palace due to how it operates)
Ninth, in regards to the Palace actually, since this building doesn’t have a limit on it, if you build multiple does that allow you to issue more Special Edicts but at a further penalty? IE 2 Palaces give 3 special edicts a turn at -4, 3 Palaces give 4 at -6 etc?
I have more (next I had in mind was about lighthouses) but this is all I can type out for right now.
| Ju-Mo. |
I cant really say much to UR, because I dont have it.
Is it a offical origianl Paizo Pathfinder product or a third party?
4.) Yes it means you have to decide, what is more important for that hex.
To be able to travel through very fast, or do give you extra BP every turn.
5.) I dont know the official ruling, but I just took the city grid and draw an aqueduct in in (or let the players draw it in)
6.) The CR of the highest monster the PC take in.
With animal handling it could be a dire tiger (CR 8, so loyelty +2), but they still have to find it and bring it in.
If they find something other (like a Wyvern) they can just beat it unconsious and take it in. Or maybe bribe it, with food or money.
7.) Yes. If you have 5 granary, you could have 25 BP in total saved.
If you save 4 each turn, it goes like: 0-4-8-12-16-20-24-25.
Everything over that is just wasted again.
8.) The whole kingdom. Because the stat just always represent the whole kingdom, so everything that modifies that stat modifies it for the whole kingdom.
9.) No you cant. You dont get "+1 edict", you get "maximum of 2 edicts".
If you have 10 palaces you dont get 10 x "+1 edcit", you get 10 times "maximum 2 edicts" which results in maximum 2 edicts.
That all said, kingdom building rules are far from perfect.
And its seldom gamebreaking if you houserule some things.
The moment in the game you have 2 palaces, your edicts doesnt change very much anymore. If you need to change 3 in one month, a lot has to go wrong for the PC. In most cases waiting a month doesnt hurt that bad.
I think in my group that will finish book 6 soon, that last time the changed their edicts was in-game 3 years ago.
I play kingsmaker the second time now, with different groups.
While Kingdom building is fun, it doesnt really help in breaking the game, as long as the PC dont hord lots of BP and take them all for themselves and their equiptment.
However to do the long in-game runing time, item crafting is the real "game breaker". Too strong and too specialist equipment of a powergaming group can break any AP, and Kingsmaker gives the players the time to do it. But that also only if abused, if used moderatly its perfectly fine. (like always with all rules)
Both groups are totally different from their playstyle and their choices, however both kingdoms evolved naturally. With a good mixture of saving BP for tougher times and spending it on buildings that would make sense for a kingdom.
"We have problem with local bandits... well we should build a prison soon" and so on.
| JamesWTGames |
I cant really say much to UR, because I dont have it.
Is it a offical origianl Paizo Pathfinder product or a third party?
Ultimate Rulership is a third party supplement, though they do have it in the official Paizo store page. It's made by Legendary games.
Also didn't think that making multiple special edicts a turn really would effect that much. Though for the festival edicts (which is a special edict added to UR) if you have big enough cities they very much are worth doing imho. There were 5 additional special edicts added in UR: Commission, Endowment, Espionage, Festival, & Recruitment.
All 5 of them add to the capabilities of what can be done with the Kingdom building rules.
Commission gives the players some control over potentially specifying specific wondrous items it wants a specific building to make.
Endowment lets you bestow a title to most 2 or 4 tile buildings to increase it's consumption by 1 but also increase loyalty and fame by 1 so long as you pay the consumption. (It also gives an option of letting the Noblesse Oblige event also pay for an ongoing Endowment edict)
Espionage costs a rolled amount of BP for a rolled increase to Economy for a # of months, as well as providing information about the nation you used the Espionage edict on. The information and DC provided is determined by the type of espionage from public -> minor -> major -> vital secret.
Recruitment just gives better rules on how to actually recruit armies.
Festival Edicts are interesting. They are edicts that effect only a specific hex/settlement. Festival edicts require a specific building depending on the size of the settlement, cost a rolled amount of BP to do, and require an Economy, Loyalty, and Stability check to determine the results. FYI how many buildings are in a settlement determine it's classification in UR. A 'village' if <=4 lots filled. A 'town' if 5<=16 lots filled. A 'city' is when a settlement has 17 or more lots filled.
There's 3 types of festivals: a Countryside Festival, a Civic Festival (CvF), and a Religious Festival (RF). A Countryside Festival cannot be held in a settlement, costs 1d2 BP, and must be held at a Landmark to perform and increases the loyalty of the Landmark by 1 for 1 year (These also don't need Kingdom checks). For a 'Village' it costs 1d4 BP and for a CvF you need a Tavern, for a RF you need a Shrine. For a 'Town' it costs 1d8 BP for a CvF you need a Theater, for a RF you need a Temple. For a 'City' it costs 2d6 BP for a CvF you need an Arena, and lastly for a RF you need a Cathedral.
If all 3 Kingdom checks fail on a festival you lost 1 Fame, and gain 1d4-1 points of Unrest. It also causes a 50% Squatters event, a 45% Vandals event, or a 5% chance of both! If 2 checks fails there is a 50% chance of the Building Demand event triggering.
If you pass 2/3 of the checks you sum total the bonuses of all the following buildings in that settlement no matter if you are doing a CvF or RF: Inns, Luxury Shops, Markets, Monuments, Parks, & Shops.
For a CvF you also total the bonuses of the following buildings on top of those above: Arenas, Black Markets, Bordellos, Dance Halls, Gambling Dens, Palaces, & Taverns.
For a RF you also add the total bonuses of the following buildings: Cathedrals, Graveyards, Shrines, & Temples.
When you get the total you multiply the sum bonuses by 50%.
If you roll 3 successes you double the above summed bonuses. Plus you have a 50% chance of Outstanding Success, a 45% chance of Visiting Celebrity or a 5% chance of both!
Probably not the information you expected to receive but I am a high-functioning autistic with ADHD as are a large portion of most TTRPG players.
| Ju-Mo. |
Probably not the information you expected to receive but I am a high-functioning autistic with ADHD as are a large portion of most TTRPG players.
You are right, but I highly appriciate the answear :D
That sounds like a nice addition to the rules, maybe I have the time to look it over and impliment some of these things in my second group.
The first being in Book 6, in the last Dungeon, dont have any real need for a kingdom anymore, tbh. At sometime its a self running system, which only needs goverment if you are at war.
| JamesWTGames |
You are right, but I highly appreciate the answer :D
That sounds like a nice addition to the rules, maybe I have the time to look it over and implement some of these things in my second group.
The first being in Book 6, in the last Dungeon, don't have any real need for a kingdom anymore, tbh. At sometime its a self running system, which only needs government if you are at war.
I sort of get that. And you art welcome Ju-mo. There's 16 additional buildings provided in the supplement, and alternate rules on Expansion, Holiday, and Taxation Edicts which are mainly to help out in the early stages to prevent potential collapses of expansionistic groups.
To give a description for the Brickyard/Lumberyard these are 16/12 BP cost buildings that take 2 lots each. Gives the same stats as a Foundry minus the Unrest. Brickyards say they reduce the cost of Quarries in the settlement's hex or adjacent hexes to 6 BP (but Quarries normally cost 6 so idk). Lumberyards reduce the cost of Sawmills in the settlement's hex or adjacent hexes to 2 BP (which is a reduction since base cost is 3). BUT the weird part is the last two lines:
In addition, Q/Sm in those hexes generate 1 additional BP for every 2 Q/Sm. If a Q/Sm is adjacent to 2 settlements with BY/LY, only 1 BY/LY may benefit from that Q/Sm each Kingdom turn.
Also another thing I'm questioning is the Trade Edict rules. Since unless you have like heaps of Productivity in a settlement, once your nation's size gets above 25-30 hexes it makes it near impossible to make a trade route because you ADD the 'Length Modifier' (LM) to the DC for trade edicts. And to get the LM you subtract the 'Trade Route Length' (TRL) FROM your Kingdom's Size. Which makes it HARDER to make trade routes the bigger your country is! Which to me honestly makes very little sense.
Also Legendary Games made similar rules expansions to other parts of the rules pretty sure they have a separate one for like Kingdom Warfare. But Rulership was the one that took my interest first.