
Hamitup |

I have seen the need for more thralls at early levels brought up a few times. the solution that tends to be brought up is more thralls early with create thrall or action compression so you can summon them while accomplishing other actions, but I haven't seen much about keeping the thralls you have alive.
I like the idea of setting up on one turn and then reaping the rewards of that planning on later turns. I think I would prefer if the thralls were a little easier to keep on the field. Either some grave spells only needing to originate from a thrall but not consume it, or making other options beside bone shaper have a chance at a thrall surviving.
Something like the unstable trait for the inventor could be nice. the grave spells could slightly weaker unless you also consume the thrall with the spell.

Hamitup |

I think most of my turns were Cantrip + Create Thrall
I agree. I don't think my issue is needing or wanting to consume a thrall every round, but with needing to spam create thrall to make sure one is available when I do want to cast a grave spell.
While playtesting, I found myself having to use create thrall almost every turn as they rarely made it multiple turns. This was especially true when fighting multiple foes. Either a couple lower-level creatures miss their first attacks and decides to spend the rest of their turn clear thralls, or the thralls get caught up in an AoE.

Hamitup |

I just think having to use create thrall almost every turn limits what the class can do. It starts to feel like an action tax after a bit. Lots of classes have to pay an extra action to access their whole kit, but most only have to pay it once per fight or once per enemy. The necromancer pays it on most turns.
The other classes that have to pay the tax more often have action compression. gunslingers get to do other things during reloads and swashbucklers gain panache with multiple skill actions. Even the runesmith has level 1 feats to combine actions or reduce the number of actions for tracing a rune.
I am saying I would like to see something in the class other than quicker summoning of thralls, as I think what made the class fun was setting up future turns. I just think it could be made a bit more reliable to get the pay off. Bone shaper's thrall enhancement is good, but it only works for reflex saves and is locked away from the other 2 Grim Fascinations.

NorrKnekten |
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I just think having to use create thrall almost every turn limits what the class can do. It starts to feel like an action tax after a bit. Lots of classes have to pay an extra action to access their whole kit, but most only have to pay it once per fight or once per enemy. The necromancer pays it on most turns.
The other classes that have to pay the tax more often have action compression. gunslingers get to do other things during reloads and swashbucklers gain panache with multiple skill actions. Even the runesmith has level 1 feats to combine actions or reduce the number of actions for tracing a rune.
I am saying I would like to see something in the class other than quicker summoning of thralls, as I think what made the class fun was setting up future turns. I just think it could be made a bit more reliable to get the pay off. Bone shaper's thrall enhancement is good, but it only works for reflex saves and is locked away from the other 2 Grim Fascinations.
On the other hand, We also have classes like the Bard, Witch, Investigator, Magus, Rogue and Thaumaturge who needs to keep using actions for their main features to function.
Bard needs to recast their anthem or be either muse or warrior to extend them with a cost,
Witch use sustained hexes that causes their familiars to do stuff,
Investigator only gains free stratagem if their target is a lead,
Magus needs to recharge spellstrike,
Rogues typically spends actions to gain offguard benefits,
And Thaumaturge needs to use Exploit against each individual target unless they are the same type and have the same weakness.
I feel like the necromancer is already in a good spot in this regard, You have the choice to either strike with the thrall as it is created or place it further away from harm. The level 3 reaction alone was really helpful in the combats I participated in.
If they want to remove it they either need an an AoE to line up or spend valuable actions, Both of which could be used to hit or defend against PCs.

Hamitup |

Maestro bard and warrior are the only ones that have it by default, but any bard can pick up lingering composition with a 2nd level feat. Only the Bone Shaper has a way to prevent thralls from being destroyed.
Sustaining spells is just part of being a caster and the Witch has more spells that do it. The Necromancer cant sustain and cast a new grave spell on the same turn if they have to also summon a thrall.
Investigator can get free Devise a Stratagem on some targets and has a 2nd level feat to add a new Person of Interest. I would say that Devise a Stratagem is more valuable than the damage from create thrall. Weather the thrall flanking is more impactful is harder to say.
The Magus gets conflux spells to help recharge.
Rogues do need to spend actions to get foes off-guard, but most martials are also trying to do this. It has multiple ways to be set up and can be set up by other players. The class also gets to make foes off-guard by using other actions based off their Racket. If you crit succeed with most rackets the off-guard last longer.
Ranger and Thaumaturge don't have action compression, but both have a way to sometimes start a fight focused on their target and only have to spend an action to swap to a new foe. Both have ways to make this targeting apply to other foes as a way of reducing the action tax.
Create Thrall feels too similar to Gather Elements from the Kineticist playtest. The difference is every grave spell is an overflow impulse.
At higher levels you can create more thralls at once, but I think it is too easy for most thralls to be removed. Especially at later levels. Spells like Burning Blossom completely stop the necromancer from using thralls they created on previous turns. Smaller spells like Ice Storm can seemingly lock you out of casting from an area.
Maybe my table is just more aggressive towards the thralls or the enemies we fought were just better suited to deal with them.
I just think it would be nice if the class had access to slightly tougher thralls that did not cost focus points rather than just more action compression like so many classes have. The stronger thralls exist, but are gated off behind focus points and higher levels. The lowest one in Conglomerate of Limbs; it has more than 1hp and is still a thrall. Perfect thrall is the only one that can be reused and it is a level 20 feat. Not every thrall needs to be as tough as these, but dying to the splash damage from an enemy alchemist is rough.