Drunken Sing-Along fact check

[zza ni]

So I have read this feat a long time ago, but stumbled into it again today while looking for something else and I noticed important things that seem to make it a lot more stronger then I initially thought.

reading thig feat effect (and the fact that one can use it even outside taverns if he supply booze worth at least 5 gp) it seem that the attitude shift is:

1.An auto success not requiring a skill check (which if using diplomacy would have been at dc 20+targets cha for unfriendly).
2. As a follow up since it is not the result of the diplomacy skill check it can stack with it. (the diplomacy check to change an attitude cannot shift the target more then 2 stages using it alone).

this mean that targeting an unfriendly group, even outside a tavern buy spending 5 gp, will move them into indifferent which can then be further improved up to helpful with a high enough followed diplomacy check.

so as long as the targets are not straight up hostile and you have 11 minutes to sing, one can move them into indifferent or even better with ease.

any thoughts?

also how many is 'a large crowd of people' in your mind? (or more importantly how few are still a large group so this can work on them?)

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Suddenly anyone can pull a Cuben Pete

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Drunekn Sing-along:

Drunken Sing-Along
Source Inner Sea Taverns pg. 59
With a raised tankard and catchy tune, you can get large groups of people on your side.

Prerequisites: Diplomacy 1 rank, Performance (sing) 1 rank.

Benefit: While in a tavern or other drinking establishment, you can change the attitude of the patrons from unfriendly to indifferent or from indifferent to friendly by spending 10 minutes engaging in a group sing-along. For the following 24 hours, your attempts to gather information in that tavern take only 2d6 minutes if the patrons are indifferent or 1d4 minutes if the patrons are friendly. You must be able to speak the same language as the majority of the patrons to use this feat.

Special: You can use this feat with a large crowd of people outside of a tavern if you supply at least 5 gp worth of alcohol to the group.

[I grok do u]

The feat affects crowds and improves your ability and speed at getting information through diplomacy. The diplomacy skill to change attitude only works on one creature per attempt. In other words, specific NPC patrons may or may not be part of the generally improved attitude - at the GM's discretion.

So for 1) It is an automatic success IF you can successfully sing for 10 minutes in a language most of them understand, which may not always work out.
2) Crowd attitude doesn't equal NPC attitude, so as I noted earlier, GM doesn't have to let them stack.

As for crowd size - the only strict definition comes from Performance combat, which says large crowds are 101-300 creatures, and so is probably not relevant here.

Size of the Crowd:

Larger crowds are harder to sway to one side or the other. It takes great shows of daring or a progression of numerous displays of crowd-pleasing actions to get them to change their attitude. Presented here are the general crowd sizes and their effects on the DC to improve crowd attitudes and gain victory points.

Small Crowd: A small crowd contains no fewer than two and no more than 25 creatures. It does not increase the base DC of all performance combat checks.

Medium Crowd: A medium crowd contains no fewer than 26 and no more than 100 creatures. A medium crowd increases the DC of all performance combat checks by +2.

Large Crowd: A large crowd contains no fewer than 101 and no more than 300 creatures. A large crowd increases the DC of all performance combat checks by +3.

Massive Mob: A massive mob is made up of no fewer than 301 creatures, and its numbers can expand into the thousands. A massive mob increases the DC of all performance combat checks by +4.

Of course, most of the taverns from Inner Sea Taverns have typically 4-40 patrons, so that is a far better indicator of the intended crowd size. Likely tending toward the greater number or more, since coming across a large group outside of tavern means that a good number are probably not looking to drink, or they would be at the tavern. Along that line, some groups are still going to balk or refuse the booze anyway - like on-duty guards.

If we base the feat on requiring everyone gets drinks, then 5gp will buy 250 cups of ale. If the GM decides it takes two cups of ale to get the commoners drunk enough for the feat to work, then you have up to 125 commoners singing along. NPCs with higher CON scores will require more booze to get tipsy/drunk/soused, so fewer would be affected by lesser quantities of alcohol.

[zza ni]

about stacking, does anything (other then time\resources etc) prevents taking 10 more minutes, in case of starting with unfriendly, to get them bar into friendly mood?

[Diego Rossi]

Quote:

Benefit: While in a tavern or other drinking establishment,

It only works in taverns or drinking establishments.

Great at the Oktoberfest, useless in a street filled with angry people.

[zza ni]

Diego Rossi wrote:

Quote:

Benefit: While in a tavern or other drinking establishment,

It only works in taverns or drinking establishments.

Great at the Oktoberfest, useless in a street filled with angry people.

Read the 'special' part at bottom (which led to my 2nd question in my 1st post) - can be used on a large group if suppling the booze even outside a bar.