Swallow whole vs saves


Rules Questions


If a wizard gets swallowed by a huge creature and the wizard makes the concentration check to cast a fireball inside the stomach does the creature get a reflex save ???


Going by the book, you always get a save, even when it makes very little sense.

A GM might rule-of-cool it and make the creature fail its save automatically, but that does raise issues of consistency - can the wizard save if he's still trapped inside the creature? What about someone who's asleep? What about someone in a narrow corridor with nothing to hide behind?


Does that count for reflex saves ?? Or just fort and will saves when your inside a creature ??

Liberty's Edge

RAW you can always try to save (if the effect allows a save, obviously). It works for every kind of save.

The GM can add circumstance bonuses or penalties if he thinks they are warranted, but the target can always try to save. In saves there is a factor of luck. Maybe your fireball was mostly absorbed by some undigested food, not the stomach walls. Or there was a lot of acid in the stomach and the heat was somewhat mitigated.


Old thread on always getting a reflex save. Paralyzed/helpless creatures are treated as having a Dex of zero, which means they're worse at reflex saves. You could apply a similar effect here, but it would be a house rule.

Liberty's Edge

Swallow Whole (Ex) wrote:


A swallowed creature keeps the grappled condition, while the creature that did the swallowing does not.
Grappled wrote:


Grappled creatures cannot move and take a –4 penalty to Dexterity.

So, the swallowed creature has a -2 to Reflex saves.


When you are swallowed whole you take damage each round in addition to gaining the grappled condition. That would be considered continuous damage and require a concentration check in addition to the check for being grappled. Assuming the caster makes both concentration checks to cast the spell the creature swallowing the caster would get a reflex save vs the fire ball.

The caster is also going to take the fireball damage and will require to make the save with the penalty for being grappled.


If you want to get Pedantic RAW©, then casting that spell isn't even an option.

Swallow Whole wrote:
A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of damage required for the creature to cut itself free is equal to 1/10 the creature’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. ... If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, it ends up back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

A fireball is neither a light slashing or piercing weapon, nor does it "try to escape." So casting it is not a permitted action. However, dimension door or freedom of movement spells (assuming caster makes concentration checks) would be fine.

Pathfinder has a permission-based ruleset, yadda yadda.

Wouldn't really be my call, but could be argued by a RAW purist.

Liberty's Edge

I grok do u wrote:

If you want to get Pedantic RAW©, then casting that spell isn't even an option.

Swallow Whole wrote:
A swallowed creature can try to cut its way free with any light slashing or piercing weapon (the amount of damage required for the creature to cut itself free is equal to 1/10 the creature’s total hit points), or it can just try to escape the grapple. ... If a swallowed creature cuts its way out, the swallowing creature cannot use swallow whole again until the damage is healed. If the swallowed creature escapes the grapple, it ends up back in the attacker’s mouth, where it may be bitten or swallowed again.

A fireball is neither a light slashing or piercing weapon, nor does it "try to escape." So casting it is not a permitted action. However, dimension door or freedom of movement spells (assuming caster makes concentration checks) would be fine.

Pathfinder has a permission-based ruleset, yadda yadda.

Wouldn't really be my call, but could be argued by a RAW purist.

"Shallowed whole" isn't a condition, so it doesn't apply any new limit to what you can do. The condition it applies is Grappled, and those are the limitations under which you act.

The pieces you bolded are:
1) a specific action that the shallowed creature can take to free himself/itself;
2) the specific result of success when escaping the grapple (you cut away part of that).

The swallowed creature can try to cast a spell, with the limitations that apply when being grappled, but the spell will not help him/it in cutting a way out.


Diego Rossi wrote:

"Shallowed whole" isn't a condition, so it doesn't apply any new limit to what you can do. The condition it applies is Grappled, and those are the limitations under which you act.

The pieces you bolded are:
1) a specific action that the shallowed creature can take to free himself/itself;
2) the specific result of success when escaping the grapple (you cut away part of that).

The swallowed creature can try to cast a spell, with the limitations that apply when being grappled, but the spell will not help him/it in cutting a way out.

Other than skipping the first half of how to swallow, I only trimmed the part about calculating typical AC. So, not sure why you thought I bolded or redacted anything about a specific result of success.

Anyhoo-

Our theoretical RAW purist (like the ones that note the dead condition doesn't prohibit taking actions, not the ones we take seriously), would argue that the sentence with the two bolded clauses represents and exhaustive list of activities. Since the first one limits allowed attacks for the swallowed creature beyond normal grapple limitations (to light weapons instead of also one-handed), the second one should also represent a limitation.

I hope the over the cuckoo's nest reading at least amuses, since the OP question of the creature getting a saving throw is, unanimously, "yes."

A couple of other points for swallowed whole to consider with respect to some spells: darkness lighting conditions (blinding some), area spells like fireball must have line of effect to a grid point, which may or may not be possible from inside a creature.

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