| yonman17 |
I'm a little confused with the spell The Yellow Sign.
It says it functions like Symbol of Death but to what extent?
The Yellow Sign is 9th level compared to 8th for Symbol of Death. Does it work off of 150 hp nearest to 60 feet or does it affect everyone with a domination at 60' range?
| I grok do u |
Many of the symbol spells refer to symbol of death for basic rules of operation like how it is triggered, applying passwords, how read magic interacts, etc.
The effects are different, The Yellow Sign just has the domination on those within 60' that fail the save. The HP limit, and the killing, do not apply.
Protection from x alignment spells usually reference protection from evil, detect x spells usually reference detect evil, etc.
| Azothath |
Symbol of Death:N8 {for reference}
[not PFS] Yellow Sign:E9
counting HP's from the center outwards to HP:150 (partials(more HPs than spell has left) automatically skipped(succeed on (cmplsn)[mnd-afct] {likely [Evil] caster} Fort save) and the effect moves out looking for low HP mooks to affect {aka, it's likely done}) succeed on save or are dominated by Hæsteür to help worshipper's of {redacted}, who they probably can't identify, however if the caster venerates {redacted} he can command them.
===== advice
it should skip over worshipper's of {redacted} but it's meant to be used by specific BBEG NPCs on their own to inject drama/horror and the GM has deep pockets... Pretty useless unless you worship/venerate the old one or hold up a captured holy symbol and proclaim you do {temporarily, of course}... Still, you only get "help". Bah Humbug! All the symbols are overpriced. Go with energy drain, sum mon 9, grtr bestow curse, horrid wilting, maze, orb of the void, sum mon 8.
| yonman17 |
Many of the symbol spells refer to symbol of death for basic rules of operation like how it is triggered, applying passwords, how read magic interacts, etc.
The effects are different, The Yellow Sign just has the domination on those within 60' that fail the save. The HP limit, and the killing, do not apply.
Protection from x alignment spells usually reference protection from evil, detect x spells usually reference detect evil, etc.
That was my assumption, so just the basic structure of the spell not the inherent details as the effects should be changed.
| Azothath |
... That was my assumption, so just the basic structure of the spell not the inherent details as the effects should be changed.
if it were just all targets witin 60ft there would be no need to reference symbol of death. Thus the method of counting and HP limit is important.
The 'real' effect (from the adventure) is {redacted} can target that victim for the rest of its life with his fulvous dreams ability which has more serious consequences in the adventure.If you want to run it with the more powerful method in your home game that's fine but it is not RAW. I'd eliminate the {redacted} and dream connection substituting the deity of the consumed holy symbol material component for control/command purposes.
| I grok do u |
Key points made here are that this is spell primarily for the GM running a campaign with very specific cosmic horror cult and that this is meant to have a potential long-term effect on a party.
if it were just all targets witin 60ft there would be no need to reference symbol of death. Thus the method of counting and HP limit is important.
The 'real' effect (from the adventure) is {redacted} can target that victim for the rest of its life with his fulvous dreams ability which has more serious consequences in the adventure.If you want to run it with the more powerful method in your home game that's fine but it is not RAW. I'd eliminate the {redacted} and dream connection substituting the deity of the consumed holy symbol material component for control/command purposes.
The reference to symbol of death is more than just 60' and 150 HP, it also covers how the runes work, how they can be triggered, can be attuned, etc. Every symbol of x spell references symbol of death.
The HP limit is explicitly excluded in some spells, specifically those from the Core Rulebook. However, symbol spells from other sources such as Ultimate Magic and Ultimate Combat lack that pattern of phrasing, even in spells where an HP limit would be confusing. For example with symbol of healing, is the HP limit the before or after values, or is it total amount that can be healed or damaged? Or Symbol of Striking doesn't explicitly say, "unlike symbol of death, only creatures in the threatened area are affected and not all creatures within 60 feet," but that is the obvious reading of it. Also, compare
Once triggered, the symbol becomes active and glows, lasting for 10 minutes per caster level or until it has affected 150 hit points' worth of creatures, whichever comes first.versus
Once triggered, the Yellow Sign remains active for 10 minutes per caster level.
As a wise person once said, "Pathfinder is not a technical manual."
Regardless, this spell has some of its own issues beyond range and HP limit such as duration(s). Can you effectively end the regular domination by simply covering the eyes of the affected or casting obscuring mist? The explicitly wide GM discretion on intervention through a couple of possible effects reinforces that this was absolutely GM idea fodder rather than a carefully balanced spell.
Nice suggestion for generalizing the spell beyond the Royal in #FFFF00.
| Azothath |
Commentary
I'm not suggesting anything fancy, it's just read the spell(s) and do what they say in a 'central' interpretation using what I know of Play History for a RAW centric "explain the rules" forum. For the details, you can't pick and choose normally without explicit exception(s), contradiction, lack of clarity, or invoking GM caveat. Baby in the bathwater ya know. It is actually difficult not to inject some sensibility or personal way of doing things into the interpretations (lol).
As I understand it, you cast it (GM says *cha Ching!*), some targets attempt a save and if they fail they're "tagged" with contingent domination effect and gain a 'mythic' curse. Once it's clear who a 'worshipper' is/are, and that guy(s) issues a command, the contingency is satisfied and the domination starts. The curse is more RP but it implies 'damning' the (pseudo-random) target. Nobody wants some crazy old very evil and powerful deity haunting their dreams.
A big difference is 3.5 restricted triggers to "observable". PF1 lets spells look 'under the hood' at some mechanics. I personally prefer the 3.5 method but different game.
Sure, Yellow Sign is a niche spell for an AP with a purpose for the GM. I don't know why a player would ever want to use it unless they're (shhhh...) e.v.i.l... That aside, the spell is kinda borked and overly specific. Why can't there be "Sign of the Dawnflower" or "Abudabbi's Keystroke" etc? Sometimes I use Comments to give a GM's opinion that I hope is practical and useful.