Is there a monster…


Pathfinder First Edition General Discussion

Scarab Sages

…that has a constant 20% miss chance applied to any melee attack or targeted spell (such as Scorching Ray) made against it?

To clarify, I am not talking about Concealment or any kind of Invisibility or Incorporeality. Those miss chances can be countered by things like True Seeing, See Invisible, and Ghost Touch. I am also not talking about amorphous creatures.

What I have in mind is a creature from the Maelstrom (a Tumult Dragon perhaps) whose form is constantly changing at least to some degree.

A PC swings their weapon at a body part but that arm or leg might shift to a different location on the creature’s body right before a hit or maybe the part of the body the hero swings at becomes misshapen at the very last second causing a miss.

I’ve gone through the Universal Monster Rules on the D20PFSRD as well as Bestiary 6 and I can’t find anything in either place that even resembles what I’m looking for, yet I can’t believe there aren’t any creatures of Chaos that don’t have this feature.

Can anyone point me to such a creature (would prefer Paizo sources) or Universal Monster Rule?

Thanks.


no concealment, incorporeal, invisible... then True Seeing counters most things so your criteria needs close examination...

True see:

You confer on the subject the ability to see all things as they actually are. The subject sees through normal and magical darkness, notices secret doors hidden by magic, sees the exact locations of creatures or objects under blur or displacement effects, sees invisible creatures or objects normally, sees through illusions, and sees the true form of polymorphed, changed, or transmuted things. Further, the subject can focus its vision to see into the Ethereal Plane (but not into extradimensional spaces). The range of true seeing conferred is 120 feet.
True seeing, however, does not penetrate solid objects. It in no way confers X-ray vision or its equivalent. It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like. True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance. {ed - bolding}

so while it can see the true from of a gaseous creature, it does not bypass the miss chance.
=== end of spoiler ===

gaseous, creatures hiding in stone(earth glide, burrow, incorporeals), and creatures with high stealth are probably what you are looking for. A few;
Smoke Sentinel CR:9
Hungry Fog CR:6
Belker CR:6 classic gaseous undead
any caster with Obscuring Mist...

Siabrae CR:15 spellcaster
Thoqqa, various Earth, Magma, Mud elementals, various earth creatures

time shifting also comes to mind

Scarab Sages

Azothath wrote:

no concealment, incorporeal, invisible... then True Seeing counters most things so your criteria needs close examination...

** spoiler omitted **

gaseous, creatures hiding in stone(earth glide, burrow, incorporeals), and creatures with high stealth are probably what you are looking for. A few;
Smoke Sentinel CR:9
Hungry Fog CR:6
Belker CR:6 classic gaseous undead
any caster with Obscuring Mist...

Yes, True Seeing counters those things. I’m looking for something that True Seeing does not counter because the creature’s form is actually shifting.

RE: Obscuring Mist, can’t True Seeing defeat that as well? For fogs and smokes, Mistsight can defeat those. If TS can’t defeat OM, Mistsight will do the trick.

It sounds like I might have to make up my own Universal Monster Rule.


Arkat wrote:
Azothath wrote:

no concealment, incorporeal, invisible... then True Seeing counters most things so your criteria needs close examination...

** spoiler omitted **

gaseous, creatures hiding in stone(earth glide, burrow, incorporeals), and creatures with high stealth are probably what you are looking for. A few;
Smoke Sentinel CR:9
Hungry Fog CR:6
Belker CR:6 classic gaseous undead
any caster with Obscuring Mist...

Yes, True Seeing counters those things. ...

No it does not. Reading my spoiler might be helpful.

ADVICE
If you want to make up something due to chaos or such, then I would add a defense (like Detect Magic) where viewing the true form of the creature carries a save and penalty (like Horror effects) stagger, stun, or dazed. Then add a deflection bonus and a miss chance. The miss chance should be 50 or 20% based on conditions. Just remember to add a note that True Seeing does not overcome the miss chance lest you forget.
some of the protean near mythic creatures or lovecraftians might have something similar.


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Blink dog
Or any enemy using blink. They have a 50% miss chance usually, but opponents that can see them (on the Ethereal Plane), still have a 20% miss chance (unless they can hit creatures on the Ethereal Plane).


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Hundun? Although it is CR21

Quote:
Spacetime Shifting (Ex) Reality constantly reconfigures in the vicinity of a hundun, correcting the paradoxes the creature’s existence in space and time generates. This causes all attacks against the hundun to suffer a 20% miss chance, and grants the hundun a deflection bonus to AC and a racial bonus on Reflex saves equal to its Charisma modifier.

Element-Infused Creature Template

Quote:
Indistinct Form (air or water): The creature benefits from a 20% miss chance as if it had concealment.

Scarab Sages

happykj wrote:

Hundun? Although it is CR21

Quote:
Spacetime Shifting (Ex) Reality constantly reconfigures in the vicinity of a hundun, correcting the paradoxes the creature’s existence in space and time generates. This causes all attacks against the hundun to suffer a 20% miss chance, and grants the hundun a deflection bonus to AC and a racial bonus on Reflex saves equal to its Charisma modifier.

I think THIS is what I’m looking for.

Thanks!

Scarab Sages

Azothath wrote:

no concealment, incorporeal, invisible... then True Seeing counters most things so your criteria needs close examination...

** spoiler omitted **

gaseous, creatures hiding in stone(earth glide, burrow, incorporeals), and creatures with high stealth are probably what you are looking for. A few;
Smoke Sentinel CR:9
Hungry Fog CR:6
Belker CR:6 classic gaseous undead
any caster with Obscuring Mist...

Yes, True Seeing counters those things. I’m looking for something that True Seeing does not counter because the creature’s form is actually shifting.

RE: Obscuring Mist, can’t True Seeing defeat that as well? For fogs, Mistsight can defeat those.


Arkat wrote:
RE: Obscuring Mist, can’t True Seeing defeat that as well? For fogs, Mistsight can defeat those.

True Seeing can't see through mists, clouds, or fog (unless they're illusory). A person with true seeing can't see through fog any easier than they can see through a dirty window, a stained glass window, water, or a wall.

True Seeing wrote:
It does not negate concealment, including that caused by fog and the like.

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