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It's been a while since I looked into Starfinder and will be getting back into it soon and a question from before comes back to mind:
Why did the writers/creators trash Shelyn? Was she not sexy enough or was she too boring? Did they ever explain their reasoning on this?
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The combo deity seems to more favor sheylns part of the mix where it is overall a bit edgy but not as nihilistic as her brothers original portfolio was. Honestly it is a pretty solid way of resolving her trying to save her brother for so long when when the gloves were off and she was near death her brother came to fight by her side to the point both were willing to sacrifice themselves to protect the other.
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Zon-Shelyn's right there in a place of prominence in the playtest.
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Buckle up, starfarers, we're flying back into The Great Tuvix Debate sector.
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They, didn't? Shelyn is still there. She and her brother Zon-Kuthon have become the deity Zon-Shelyn, finding a way to co-exist by becoming a god of the pain of artistic pursuit and, presumably, how love and pain are intertwined, as well.
This is new information to me. Did some looking and it was worked into a SF society scenario.
Considering how they jettisoned her at first I am surprised they did anything with her.It's an interesting turn, although I am surprised they broke up the polycule. Then again JJ isn't the creative director for Starfinder.
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I don't think the Prismatic Ray was ever an established thing in Starfinder, and that sure has some differences to Pathfinder's history.
Or maybe their breakup happened during the Gap, so no one remembers and the goddesses in question don't want to talk about it.
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I don't see it as a break up. Shelyn just needed some time away to focus on her family, so she went wandering for a few centuries (That's nothing from a God's perspective. Akin to a partner spending a month to help a family member through a tragedy). While I imagine Sarenrae and Desna do mourn for the Shelyn they once knew, they're probably overjoyed that the new collective entity she's become is doing much better, and I wouldn't be surprised if the SF2 Radiant Prism is still going strong once we get some lore.
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I also wonder, "why?" Not because I have any great attachment to either Shelyn or Zon-Kuthon, nor any great dislike of the new Zon-Shelyn. Mostly, I have a sort of bemused curiousity about why these two were chosen, and how the idea of merging deities came about.
And, were other deity shake ups considered? I mean, definitely nothing against ol' Zonny Shales here, but - what if, instead, Iomedae and Meyel had merged, after a climactic battle to save Pulonis from Damoritosh, to become Iomeyel (...Meyelodae?) god of crusading to take the vengeance you are owed? (And, I dunno, dressage, 'cause horsey dancey.) What if Uvonn, the Welcome Oblivion, and Eloritu, the Hidden Truth, became Uvitu, Hidden Oblivion, nihilistic god of erasing all information from the universe? I dunno, just spitballing here, but I'd love to know what discussions led to Zon-Shelyn. Was deity merging always a goal they had in mind, or did it sort of come about because one of the Star Friends had Feelings™ about one of the constituent gods, or something else?
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I also wonder, "why?" Not because I have any great attachment to either Shelyn or Zon-Kuthon, nor any great dislike of the new Zon-Shelyn. Mostly, I have a sort of bemused curiousity about why these two were chosen, and how the idea of merging deities came about.
And, were other deity shake ups considered? I mean, definitely nothing against ol' Zonny Shales here, but - what if, instead, Iomedae and Meyel had merged, after a climactic battle to save Pulonis from Damoritosh, to become Iomeyel (...Meyelodae?) god of crusading to take the vengeance you are owed? (And, I dunno, dressage, 'cause horsey dancey.) What if Uvonn, the Welcome Oblivion, and Eloritu, the Hidden Truth, became Uvitu, Hidden Oblivion, nihilistic god of erasing all information from the universe? I dunno, just spitballing here, but I'd love to know what discussions led to Zon-Shelyn. Was deity merging always a goal they had in mind, or did it sort of come about because one of the Star Friends had Feelings™ about one of the constituent gods, or something else?
Seems pretty obvious to me. These two deities were two that had a distinct tension with each other in their backstories. She was the one part of Dou-Bral's life that Zon-Kuthon could not bring himself to harm even after millennia of scouring the goodness and light from himself with Hellraiser-inspired nonsense. Shelyn still hoped there was something good in him.
It's divine character development and moving their story forward. Shelyn lives up to her nature of seeing beauty and goodness in even the most unlikely places by trying to help the Newborn. Zon-Kuthon gets some measure of redemption by sacrificing himself for his sister. The new fusion of two of the better known Pathfinder deities further defines a unique identity for Starfinder's fantasy elements.
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Shelyn was never jettisoned, she just hasn't been as prominent in Starfinder lore until this brand-new Zon-Shelyn event.
The Starfinder core deities are necessarily different from the Pathfinder core deities because the scope and nature of the universe has changed greatly between the two eras. There are countless alien species with gods of their own. Some of these have found followers beyond their original systems and species, just as some the old gods of Golarion have become popular outside the Pact Worlds. The gods in the Starfinder Core Rulebook are limited to those whose faiths have gone the most "interstellar."
Shelyn is mentioned at least once in the 1E Core Rulebook, in Zon-Kuthon's entry. And even in her apparent absence, she still has at least one prominent temple dedicated to her (Songbird Station in the Diaspora; see Pact Worlds, p. 86).
I haven't read any of the new lore on Zon-Shelyn yet, but it seems that the speculation in Zon-Kuthon's 1E write-up proved to be true: Shelyn has been preoccupied for some time now with finding a way to redeem her brother, but now she can finally turn her attention back to the mortal realm.
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Shelyn was never jettisoned, she just hasn't been as prominent in Starfinder lore until this brand-new Zon-Shelyn event.
The Starfinder core deities are necessarily different from the Pathfinder core deities because the scope and nature of the universe has changed greatly between the two eras. There are countless alien species with gods of their own. Some of these have found followers beyond their original systems and species, just as some the old gods of Golarion have become popular outside the Pact Worlds. The gods in the Starfinder Core Rulebook are limited to those whose faiths have gone the most "interstellar."
Shelyn is mentioned at least once in the 1E Core Rulebook, in Zon-Kuthon's entry. And even in her apparent absence, she still has at least one prominent temple dedicated to her (Songbird Station in the Diaspora; see Pact Worlds, p. 86).
I haven't read any of the new lore on Zon-Shelyn yet, but it seems that the speculation in Zon-Kuthon's 1E write-up proved to be true: Shelyn has been preoccupied for some time now with finding a way to redeem her brother, but now she can finally turn her attention back to the mortal realm.
Between making it hard to hear her and replacing her with Arshea, it seemed like a throwing away.
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Oh, are they a combined entity and not just a combined church, boo. Probably has precedent in real world mythology but I find it 'meh'. Maybe the adventure will with the story be awesome though, gameplay can make up for a lot since I'm not super-duper invested.
Edit:
Buckle up, starfarers, we're flying back into The Great Tuvix Debate sector.
Lol, nevermind. If they got Tuvixed that is straight hilarious. Love it.
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It's divine character development and moving their story forward. Shelyn lives up to her nature of seeing beauty and goodness in even the most unlikely places by trying to help the Newborn. Zon-Kuthon gets some measure of redemption by sacrificing himself for his sister. The new fusion of two of the better known Pathfinder deities further defines a unique identity for Starfinder's fantasy elements.
Right, I get the in-universe rationale, and it makes sense, neatly wrapping a little bow about the whole Shelyn/Dou-Bral/Zon Kuthon storyline. What I am most curious about are the real-world reasons why they decided to merge deities, why these two, what other options were on the table (for either merging or some other "deific shake-up") and so on.
Basically, I need to remember to ask for the behind-the-scenes on Zon-Shelyn, in the Star Friends AMA, next PaizoCon :D
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It's divine character development and moving their story forward. Shelyn lives up to her nature of seeing beauty and goodness in even the most unlikely places by trying to help the Newborn. Zon-Kuthon gets some measure of redemption by sacrificing himself for his sister. The new fusion of two of the better known Pathfinder deities further defines a unique identity for Starfinder's fantasy elements.Right, I get the in-universe rationale, and it makes sense, neatly wrapping a little bow about the whole Shelyn/Dou-Bral/Zon Kuthon storyline. What I am most curious about are the real-world reasons why they decided to merge deities, why these two, what other options were on the table (for either merging or some other "deific shake-up") and so on.
Basically, I need to remember to ask for the behind-the-scenes on Zon-Shelyn, in the Star Friends AMA, next PaizoCon :D
My speculative reason would be that with Nidal... elsewhere, the world building team felt that he'd lost relevance as one of the Core 20 and this was a chance to do something new and wrap up his and Shelyn and Zon Kuthon's stories simultaneously in a way that their fans probably find more fitting than just siccing Achaekek on them (I know a rather salty Gorumite).
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My speculative reason would be that with Nidal... elsewhere, the world building team felt that he'd lost relevance as one of the Core 20 and this was a chance to do something new and wrap up his and Shelyn and Zon Kuthon's stories simultaneously in a way that their fans probably find more fitting than just siccing Achaekek on them (I know a rather salty Gorumite).It's divine character development and moving their story forward. Shelyn lives up to her nature of seeing beauty and goodness in even the most unlikely places by trying to help the Newborn. Zon-Kuthon gets some measure of redemption by sacrificing himself for his sister. The new fusion of two of the better known Pathfinder deities further defines a unique identity for Starfinder's fantasy elements.Right, I get the in-universe rationale, and it makes sense, neatly wrapping a little bow about the whole Shelyn/Dou-Bral/Zon Kuthon storyline. What I am most curious about are the real-world reasons why they decided to merge deities, why these two, what other options were on the table (for either merging or some other "deific shake-up") and so on.
Basically, I need to remember to ask for the behind-the-scenes on Zon-Shelyn, in the Star Friends AMA, next PaizoCon :D
yeah, i like the idea of a god of shadow and dark and pain in SF, but w/o Nidal, he's kinda floating around without much purpose. doing new things w/ the pantheon is a good idea, imho
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I mean, if anyone got jettisoned it was Nyarlathotep...They've got more forms; they'll be back. We should put down traps now, while they're gone.
He wasn't so much jettisoned as he was given a divine 'ORAORAORAORAORA' back to whatever dimension he really belonged in, as the planet he was on hatched into a new god, who hates his guts for trying to stop its birth.
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Speaking of gods that got demoted...
Where are Iomedae, Desna, and Sarenrae?
If I had to guess, Desna and Sarenrae are in a depressed funk now that Shelyn has merged into Zon-Shelyn. As for Iomedae? Maybe she's cracked under the pressure of being the representee deity of all Humans? Stuff seems to hint that she's been under a lot of pressure even during the Age of Lost Omens, I can only imagine how she feels after the Gap...
Or maybe their breakup happened during the Gap, so no one remembers and the goddesses in question don't want to talk about it.Or maybe that relationship never really happened. Lots of things that happened in Pathfinder that never happened in Starfinder's universe, who's to say.
On the other hand, the recent Death of Gorum in Pathfinder has all but been stated to be the birth of The Devourer.
It's been said that Starfinder is A potential future for Pathfinder, not THE future.
Likewise, in that regard. Pathfinder is A potential past of Starfinder, not THE past.
That's a way to avoid accidentally writing themselves into a corner(or out of a story they want to tell). But Alternates don't go both ways. Pathfinder is definitely the past, while Starfinder is possibly the future.
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Speaking of gods that got demoted...
Where are Iomedae, Desna, and Sarenrae?If I had to guess, Desna and Sarenrae are in a depressed funk now that Shelyn has merged into Zon-Shelyn. As for Iomedae? Maybe she's cracked under the pressure of being the representee deity of all Humans? Stuff seems to hint that she's been under a lot of pressure even during the Age of Lost Omens, I can only imagine how she feels after the Gap...
I imagine the writing team just wanted to highlight other deities and make things feel less like Patbfinder in SPACE.
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Let's not forget Zon-Kuthon contributed as much to that as Shelyn did. She'd spent millenia believing there is still good in him, despite everything he's done, and in that moment...she was proven right.
It calls to mind that scene in Return of the Jedi:
"Now...go, my son...leave me."
"No, you're coming with me! I won't leave you here, I've got to save you!"
"You already have, Luke...you were right...you were right about me...tell your sister...you were right..."
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They, didn't? Shelyn is still there. She and her brother Zon-Kuthon have become the deity Zon-Shelyn, finding a way to co-exist by becoming a god of the pain of artistic pursuit and, presumably, how love and pain are intertwined, as well.This is new information to me. Did some looking and it was worked into a SF society scenario.
Considering how they jettisoned her at first I am surprised they did anything with her.It's an interesting turn, although I am surprised they broke up the polycule. Then again JJ isn't the creative director for Starfinder.
For those who somehow missed the memo on this, you need to play
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I bet both of the separate deities have cults that worship them still. It seems a logical idea and doubtful that the combined deity would cut off their worshipers for such an ideology.
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I imagine the writing team just wanted to highlight other deities and make things feel less like Patbfinder in SPACE.Speaking of gods that got demoted...
Where are Iomedae, Desna, and Sarenrae?If I had to guess, Desna and Sarenrae are in a depressed funk now that Shelyn has merged into Zon-Shelyn. As for Iomedae? Maybe she's cracked under the pressure of being the representee deity of all Humans? Stuff seems to hint that she's been under a lot of pressure even during the Age of Lost Omens, I can only imagine how she feels after the Gap...
Seconded, I legitimately find the new inclusions the most fun and inspired of the Starfinder Core 20 and I'm certain the design team can feel this too. Loving the god of internet and memes, loving the god of who the hell knows it just hatched, loving the god of being emo, great work from the Starfriends. Makes me wish they went further, like I understand the space (heh) Urgathoa occupies in a setting where undeath is rather more prevalent and leagues more accepted, but like... It's still just Urgathoa. Especially when a lot of the SF original deities returning from the 1e core 20 do kind of have a vibe of [PF2 deity] in SPACE!