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The problem with Mountain Stance is not that it's benefits are poor, but in "how the GM might interpret the requirement 'you are touching the ground'." Since sooner or later you're going to have to fight a flying opponent.
Also you can't be in a stance during exploration mode, so they take an action to use.
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While I agree that the feat is probably still on the stronger side, the point is that it got errata'd, when a whole bunch of people on this thread tried to shout down the mere idea that it would, let alone needed any degree of downtuning. I invite the people who took part in the dogpiling, the gaslighting, and the tone policing to look back upon this thread and see that this hadn't happened all that long ago.
But also, I do think the impact is larger than stated: for starters, Monks can't exceed their usual AC breakpoints at level 1, because their unarmored cap is reduced with this feat to begin with. At 6th level, Strength Monks can pick Mountain Stronghold to add to Mountain Stance, matching the AC bonus from this feat at that stage and eventually exceeding it with Mountain Quake (and I disagree that this feat line is bad, as it enables Monks to get Champion-level AC on top of their saves). In addition, cloth casters who want to pick this would also not be able to exceed the AC they'd get from picking Armor Proficiency, equipping light armor, and not dumping their Strength (in fact, they'd reach the same breakpoints at level 5 too). It has, in my opinion, successfully brought the feat more in line with other AC-increasing options, even if it's probably still stronger than other "natural armor"-style ancestry feats.
The Mountain Line is incredibly bad for several reason:
- It's a Stance, obviously, so until you hit level 12 and get Reflexive Stance you need to spend an action to get into it. This is terrible because it's providing your main defensive benefit, which means enemies that beat you in initiative have you at a great disadvantage. And remember, the Stance trait calls out it is only useable in Encounter mode, so you can't even make it an Exploration activity RAW.
- Its requirement of needing to keep your feet on the ground completely prohibits you from using it while flying, swimming or leaping. I don't think I need to explain why this is bad.
- It slows you down by 5 feet for no real reason.
Sure, you get a +2 to resist a few maneuvers, which is nice, and a decent unarmed attack (not mindblowing like other stances, but this is supposed to be defensive).
And while it is true that with Mountain Stance, Mountain Stronghold and Mountain Quake you end up with a total +6 AC vs Scaly Hide's +5, none of the disadvantages of Mountain Stance ever go away, and it comes online at Level 14. To make matters even worse, you can get the exact same benefit as Mountain Stronghold by literally just using a shield.
So I reiterate, though it's harsh, that Mountain Stance cannot compete in any meaningful way with Scaly Hide for STR based monks. If Scaly Hide is the 50th floor Penthouse, the Mountain Stance line is the 10th sub-basement. It is terrible and even this weird pseudo nerf to Scaly Hide doesn't change that.
While I can agree that there are a lot of inconveniences associated with that stance, it is still the stance that allows you to have Champion-level AC, which you cannot get otherwise as a Monk, while having better saves than a Champion. You should still be building Dex anyway, as well, so you're not losing all of your AC while caught before your turn starts, and the -5 Speed penalty is peanuts when you get a +10-30 bonus.
By contrast, while this ancestry feat is still unique in that it eventually gives you that +2 to unarmored AC, no questions asked, it no longer allows you to reach breakpoints you can't achieve through other means. This is a marked improvement over the pre-errata version of the feat, which let your Strength Monk and cloth casters max out on unarmored AC at level 1 with only a +3 Dex investment. I think this is at least a reasonable middle ground between leaving the feat monstrously overtuned and nerfing it into the dirt, and I do prefer that Paizo went for this rather than going full-force with the hammer.
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I think this is at least a reasonable middle ground between leaving the feat monstrously overtuned and nerfing it into the dirt, and I do prefer that Paizo went for this rather than going full-force with the hammer.
On that, I agree wholeheartedly. As for Mountain Stance, I'll agree to disagree.
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o make matters even worse, you can get the exact same benefit as Mountain Stronghold by literally just using a shield.
Honestly, you can do better than the Mountain Stronghold action by just using a shield because you can use the shield without being in stance, can use the Defend exploration activity, and can use it while flying or swimming.