I have an Investigator and have access to two spells and I just wanted to clarify how they would work in theory.
Touch Injection says you must hold an elixir, infused extract, poison, or potion in hand as you cast this spell. The held substance drains from its container into a magical sac in your body. While the spell lasts, you can deliver the substance with a mere touch. To do so to an opponent, you must make a successful melee touch attack. If you hit, the substance takes effect immediately, despite any onset period, and that opponent receives the normal saving throw (if any) against the substance. In the case of a personal infused extract, the opponent receives both a Fortitude save and spell resistance. If you miss, the substance remains in the magical sac for you to use later.
So if I stored an extract of Skinsend since it's a personal infused extract the target should receive a Fortitude save to negate but if they fail I can effectively slap their skin off their body and as per the spell drop their body's hit points to 0. Is this right?
This is a fairly well known combo. It's not that much crazier than a witch who can slumber from range. "Save or nearly die" is pretty common in Pathfinder.
This is a fairly well known combo.
Wow I must be really late to the party! It seemed a little ridiculous to be legal, and I'll definitely consult my GM before I try something like this in game.
Good idea. Well known doesn’t necessarily mean universally accepted.
If you want to see this idea made sketchier you should look at an injection spear.
From what I see the person affected by the touch injection is the one in control of the extract. That would mean that on their next action they can simply dismiss the extract. This is going to really limit the use of this combo in an offensive manner.
Since touch injection is likely to use your action you are going to be hard pressed to do anything before the target can dismiss the extract. If you have the initiative and go first in the round the target can use his action to dismiss the extract. If you go after the target they can use their action next turn to dismiss the extract. That means the only way to actually exploit the vulnerability is to have another character that can act between the time the touch extraction takes place and the target goes. About the only time that is likely to happen is if the third character has a readied action.
Not that I'm advocating to use this but in the spell description for Skinsend it says the skin has to return to you which I would assume is at least an action. And then rejoining with your skin only gives you back the HP of the skin construct which is Half your maximum, so even if it doesn't drop you it effectively cuts your HP in half.
Again this is all hypothetical, if I were the GM I don't think I'd allow this at my table.
Since the recipient is in control of the extract they control how the skin moves. Why would they have told the skin to move away from them? The spell also has a duration of 1hour/leve (D). Which means the target can end the spell as a standard action. Ending extract will not take more than a single standard action.
In order for the combination to work, the caster has to have expend 2 extracts, move within touch range of the target, succeed with a touch attack on the target, and the target has to fail a fortitude save and spell resistance if they have any. If all this succeeds it will cut the target’s HP in half and may allow another character to get an attack on the target’s body. If the target has ways of attacking as swift or free action, they can use that before dismissing the spell.
So, while the combination does do something it is not as overpowered as it might seem.
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In order for the combination to work, the caster has to have expend 2 extracts, move within touch range of the target, succeed with a touch attack on the target, and the target has to fail a fortitude save and spell resistance if they have any. If all this succeeds it will cut the target’s HP in half and may allow another character to get an attack on the target’s body. If the target has ways of attacking as swift or free action, they can use that before dismissing the spell.
So, while the combination does do something it is not as overpowered as it might seem.
The missing step is "have your (delayed) ally make an attack on the body as soon as you do it." Preferably a coup-de-grace or full-attack, either one of which is almost certainly going to kill the body.
I did see this done once in a PFS game. Everyone at the table agreed it wasn't an effective use of resources or actions but it was kind of amusing. When you get down to it there aren't that many enemies you can use this on where it is a huge advantage. Most fights are to the death or the imprisonment anyway. Sure, if you slap the skin off a wizard then kill his body, the skin will provoke while it reaches for the spell pouch. But you could have done a lot of damage directly to the wizard in the first place instead.
(Just as one example)
To pull this off you need to be at least a 4th level alchemist with at least a 14 INT. At that level it will take all your 2nd level extracts. Your BAB will be +3 and figure you have a +2 bonus from STR/DEX to hit. That gives you a +5 to your touch attack. The fortitude save will be 12 + your alchemists INT bonus which. Most lightly armored targets will probably have a touch AC of at least 14 if not higher. Anything using heavy armor will probably have a good fortitude save. Your chance of actually pulling this off is likely going to be around 30%. At higher level the alchemist's bonus to hit will be higher, but the save will not go up by much, but your opponent's saving throw will be better. So, at higher level your chance of success is even less.
In reality this is going to be very difficult to pull off. Sure, if everything goes your way you can take down a target in one round. A 4th level barbarian with a greataxe that gets a critical hit will probably take downs the target even quicker. Even without the critical it might still be able to match this.
I still stand by my point that this is not as powerful as it seems. If it works it can be a blast, but don’t count on it working.